Star Wars - The Empire's Challenge - Game Over

[Chaosraven]

El Guapo is the only person that has voted for everyone that is now proven to be good. Heck, it was true yesterday, too, as I pointed out then. Now it's even MORE true. Even if we drop the Grund vote, as a "joke", then how many people have voted for all of: Moliere, Tru1cy, Newcastle, and Vorret?

Two... El Guapo and Unagi. BUT Unagi has thrown around many more votes, so there's a lot more chance for him to have some bad ones in there. Look at El Guapo's full record:

Day 1 Votes:
El Guapo -------> Grundbegriff, Tru1cy, Vorret, Newcastle
Day 2 Votes:
El Guapo ------> Moliere, Holman, Tru1cy

With the exception of Holman (who we don't know about), every one of those votes was bad.

This fairly calls into question my judgment in these games, but honestly if I were a wolf, I would want to mix in at least one wolf vote for this reason.

There's two ways to test that.

Lynch you or lynch Holman.

[Unagi]

comedy.

[Lassr]

the one reservation I have about you, Unagi, is you do seem to be floundering and thrashing around this game. Good Unagi always seemed more focused than this and yes, you have been able to read me more than you admit. But, I also am having a hard time this game, there are a few I want to go after but I am struggling with reads this game. May be a product of being out of practice for so long, so I have a hard time holding that against you.

And the one thing I come back to is Grund was the night one kill, and Moliere was the target last night.

Grund becomes suspicious as he survives, he made the "role" joke, and most of us that have known him knows he likes to play games like that and if I was bad I don't think I would have targeted him on night one. Moliere was odd unless they were afraid to take the risk that Vorret would not use his power and Q-G was going to protect him. More experienced players I have played evil would have taken the chance on Vorret.

[Lassr]

So, it feels like the bad guys are not risk takers.

[RMC]

Tier 1: RMC, Scoop, PLW or Holman
Tier 2: Isgrimnur, Archinerd, Zarathud, Remus
Tier 3: Lassr, Punisher, El Guapo, CR

Holman, if you would humor me here too...

If we take your name off my Tier 1 - and I asked for you to pick a player from my Tier 2 - who would you pick?

I would LOVE it if RMC, Scoop, and PLW would also answer that (with regard to their name being replaced, obviously).

I should point out - I am not having an easy time with any of this... I've got a lot of 'threads of thought' where I fear I'm totally off on my top tier (which changes). I'm being challenged by Zarathud and Archinerd's undying love for me, which isn't helping me read the scene.... so I shift between suspicious and 'forgive the noob' with both of them, and am trying to see who is taking advantage of it, if it's not them.

sigh.

I can answer, I would put Zarathud as my primary suspect of team evil.

I also think that Chaos Raven is playing a very good game of flying under the radar. He and Remus might be playing off on another or not. they are very effective when both on team evil, but I am getting a good vibe from Remus this game. But honestly, when I think Remus is good, he is bad and when I think he is bad, he is good. He's hard for me to ever read.

I have been silent, but this is a large crowd, and it is hard to read everyone. I have been observing for the most part, and going along with the crowd.

[Chaosraven]

I also think that Chaos Raven is playing a very good game of flying under the radar.

IGNORE ME

((hey look Darth West, I deleted all the references to us being Team Evil))

[Holman]

I know this sounds like relative-rookie whining, but I still don't have a sense of how "Good Grund" differs from "Evil Grund" or how to tell when Scoop is acting unusually sane. All I see is what's going on this game.

Right now it seems muddy. I'm suspicious of Unagi, but as I've said I see no smoking gun. Maybe I just don't appreciate the Good Unagi style.

I'd be up to lynch someone else if I saw a clearer choice.

[Archinerd]

Archinerd, has been dying to get my lynched since the start. No real big reason. Recently says I'm dangerous.... Ok...? Damn - I am the one that proposed we didn't even lynch anyone after the tru1cy 'run up'... How on earth does that help the wolves? I'm the only player here that was willing to discuss that option. Oh, actually I'm guessing that's what you are saying is dangerous?

As I've pointed out before, to me it looks like every time we get close to a lynch you start to redirect the attention to others. It reads as either protecting the person who is about to be lynched or attempting to stall the game to the advantage of the wolves. Whether you are a wolf or not, I think it's "dangerous" for you to attempt to derail a lynch each day. So, my thinking is, if you aren't a wolf, you are at the very least a distraction and getting rid of you wouldn't be all that big of a loss.

Also, for the sake of openness, I too voted for Newcastle and Tru1cy but pulled my votes before the actual lynch.

[Scoop20906]

Only one thing has really bugged me about Unagi this game and it was his 11th hour attempt to move votes off of tru1cy vote when all that would lead to see a non-majority when the timer ran out.

Unagi knows better.

Other than that Unagi nose is one of the best in the game so I'm not inclined to vote from him yet.

I'm think I agree with Lassr that the Moliere proving by the imps screams rookie/careless baddies. I've tried to see how it was a calculated move but I still can't see the benefit unless Newcastle was a Jedi and Jorus was on his vote and got a scan.

So... Yeah. I think we have a bunch of rooks or people who love chaos. Normally that scream Moliere but since he us proven then can't be him.

Unagi, I promise a threat list tomorrow after I get some sleep. Then maybe we can compare notes and we can see what your nose can get us.


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[Zarathud]

Tax season has arrived with a wave of filings tomorrow and advice to get out.

I don't fault anyone for the Newcastle vote. He immolated.

Unagi's revisionist history of the tru1cy vote just seals the deal for me. What bothers me the most is how he switches from "uncertainty" about his impressions to floundering around and driving us to another target. It's driving me crazy, but at this point I'm not the only person who wants the certainty of knowing if Unagi is Imperial or just rabid.

I haven't played enough to know the Empire's game, but I think we have to expect there was a plan by exposing Moliere rather than incompetence. I worry now that Unagi wanted Mon Mothma to use her power.

[Scoop20906]

First of all, I can understand the new players gut-reactions to me on some level, but I really don't understand and haven't heard much articulated as to why I'm being voted for. But whatever - I get it. Boogey man.

Zarathud claims he's said 'why' numerous times - but he hasn't. He started with some charge that Moliere and I were defending each other. I asked, and he never showed me where I had defended Moliere and Moliere also declared he wasn't protecting me. Yet Zarathud is only more convinced somehow that Unagi is a wolf. I'm at odds with what to make of it. Feels fake - and yet I can't really read him well and he's new (to me, at least, here) so I don't know what he's just gotten too focused on.

While I don't totally follow his logic on his vote for Unagi, I'm convinced he is convinced he has something. Everybody has their angle. Still, usually when somebody pushes hard for a vote I get the heebeejeebees. I could vote for zarathud today. Lean towards evil.

Archinerd, has been dying to get my lynched since the start. No real big reason. Recently says I'm dangerous.... Ok...? Damn - I am the one that proposed we didn't even lynch anyone after the tru1cy 'run up'... How on earth does that help the wolves? I'm the only player here that was willing to discuss that option. Oh, actually I'm guessing that's what you are saying is dangerous?

I've not read on Archinerd. He doesn't stand out. I could also call him "Crewmen 12". Lean towards good.

PLW, was NOT on my radar before. And in a re-read and his recent stuff - suddenly is.

Another background character and I'm not sure what you are seeing here. Nothing screams Imp to me other than he seems maybe ... careful? Lean towards good.

El Guapo.... was on my list but has since sorta fallen off.

Our first real disagreement. El Guapo has risen on my threat list mainly because he confused me about the MM rulez. Not sure if this was intentional or maybe he really misunderstood them. Maybe enough to order the kill on Moliere? Lean towards evil

Lassr has mostly seemed good to me (but while Lassr does have my number, I don't really have his)

I tend to agree. Lassr has played a good middle game. Nothing stands out and his comments have remained appropriate. Lean towards good.

I'm TORN on Remus. He seems good good good, but I can't get over my original read on him. Cautiously leaning good with him... but not sure.

Remus is active and correcting people (me in particular it seems). At times I felt like he is trying to control the narative. Leans towards good.

RMC - feeling pretty evil

RMC is the devil. If you are unsure then lean towards evil. Thinking about voting for him now even. But lets get to the end of this.

Scoop - feeling kinda evil

I don't know. I'm feeling kind of good. In fact, completely good. Voting for me hurts our chances of winning but its also won't out a special. You make the call.

Isgrimnur - seems evil, but I've fallen for 'disinterested civilian isgrimnur who doesn't play' before and annoyed to think that's what I'm seeing again.

Early on Issy really trigger my wolf radar. That really hasn't changed by would Issy make a rulez mistake? No. Leaning towards good (for now).

Holman. trouble shaking my first read on him. I've shaken it, and then he's gone and renewed it. I just can't tell if he's overloading my radar or it's legit

Rambling posts. Very active. But capable of making the MM mistake too. For now, Lean towards good.

Punisher - I think he's just new... could be wrong.

Punisher has looked coached the entire game. THE ENTIRE GAME. But, he is having so much fun with the theme I hate to push for a vote for him. I guess I'm turning into an OOWW softie. Lean towards evil tho. He fits the profile this game.

CR, no clue - but he helped with the MM thing that I got started so I am going to just lean toward Good there.

No alarm bells for CR. He just wants to kill everyone. Lean towards good.

I'm a rebel and you guys shouldn't be voting for me.

I want to trust you but you've given me pause. At times this game you haven't acted like yourself. The tru1cy vote is sticking in my craw. What was up with that? But for now, lean towards good.

I guess I need to vote now. I was wrong about vorret. Lets see if I am right about ...

 El Guapo 
 
I can also switch to RMC in a heartbeat. So, Unagi, care to join my bandwagon?

[Scoop20906]

Also, I'd love to see some threat lists from everyone today.

We haven't hit an Imp yet. We are down one special that we know of. Maybe more. The Imps seem to have made a mistake proving Moliere. Lets see if we can make them pay for it.

[Scoop20906]

AWESOME! LOL

[Archinerd]

Here's my top 7 suspects.

1. Unagi
2. RMC
3. Zarathud
4. PLW
5. Isgrumnur
6&7. Remus & Chaos - because if one is an Imp then they both are at this point.

[PLW]

Given my analysis, above, I'd say my top-3 are

1. El Guapo
2. Unagi
3. Zarathud

[Holman]

I remain suspicious of Unagi, and I'm not secure in believing El Guapo or Zarathud.

I am also wary of Lassr. He spilled a lot of ink over Vorret's choice of what to do as MM, some of it subtly (or so it seems to me) encouraging Vorret to hold off on using the power:

well, we can put some doubt in the empires head by having QG decide if he wants to protect MM or someone else, and MM decide if she wants to use her power or not. If she chooses not to use her power and QG protects her and the empire targets her we get a miss for the night.
Empire has to make a decision, to target her or not. If she uses her power and they do not target her we get a free known rebel the next day.
What will vorret do? Not announce it here in the open, that is for sure! Keep it to himself and let the game begin with QG, Mm and the Empire.

She would have to use her power the next night if she is saved tonight.

[Isgrimnur]

Lassr
Punisher
Scoop20906

Each was on one kill vote, but not the other. I figure there's a baddie in there, as well as a couple in the doubles. My odds are probably better in this group than the other at this point.

[Unagi]

Scoop, I don't feel like joining that- mainly cause you went and picked someone on my 3rd tier.

[Unagi]

I remain suspicious of Unagi, and I'm not secure in believing El Guapo or Zarathud.

I am also wary of Lassr. He spilled a lot of ink over Vorret's choice of what to do as MM, some of it subtly (or so it seems to me) encouraging Vorret to hold off on using the power:

well, we can put some doubt in the empires head by having QG decide if he wants to protect MM or someone else, and MM decide if she wants to use her power or not. If she chooses not to use her power and QG protects her and the empire targets her we get a miss for the night.
Empire has to make a decision, to target her or not. If she uses her power and they do not target her we get a free known rebel the next day.
What will vorret do? Not announce it here in the open, that is for sure! Keep it to himself and let the game begin with QG, Mm and the Empire.

She would have to use her power the next night if she is saved tonight.

Well, frankly I was happy that Lassr (cause I was about to as well) came in and pronounced that Vorret's choice wasn't clear and that the main thing was that he wasn't going to make it clear what he was going to do. I saw that post as perhaps getting the wolves to make the error that they made (IMO). CR help in that manner as well.

[Lassr]

Lassr has mostly seemed good to me (but while Lassr does have my number, I don't really have his)

I tend to agree. Lassr has played a good middle game. Nothing stands out and his comments have remained appropriate. Lean towards good.

whenever people start thinking I am good and agreeing with me, it gives me the heebie jeebies. Feels like you are buttering me up for the slaughter later.

[Scoop20906]

Scoop, I don't feel like joining that- mainly cause you went and picked someone on my 3rd tier.

I think you are wrong but who's wrong more often? Me or you.

I'd join an RMC vote. Dude is the devil.


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[RMC]

Scoop, I don't feel like joining that- mainly cause you went and picked someone on my 3rd tier.

I think you are wrong but who's wrong more often? Me or you.

I'd join an RMC vote. Dude is the devil.


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Your just mad because you are always wrong about me.

[Lassr]

the silence is deafening.

Monday is the deadline. I am digesting the info and plan on voting today, I'm not sure I want to vote Unagi yet.

[bb2112]

Day 3 Votes:
1. El Guapo ------>
2. Remus West -->
3. Chaosraven --->
4. Lassr ----------->
5. Moliere --------> Unagi
6. Archinerd -----> Unagi
7. Scoop20906 ---> El Guapo
8. RMC ------------> Unagi
9. Isgrimnur ------>
10. PLW -----------> El Guapo
11. Punisher ------>
12. Holman -------> Unagi
13. Unagi ---------->
14. Zarathud ------> Unagi

Votes:
5 Unagi - Archinerd, Zarathud, Moliere, RMC, Holman
2 El Guapo - PLW, Scoop20906

8 Votes Needed

Dead:
Day 1 - Newcastle -------> Stabbed
Night 1 - Grundbegriff --> Strangled
Day 2 - Tru1cy -----------> Bashed
Night 2 - Vorret ----------> Sacrificed

Deadline:
Deadline: Monday, March 20th, 8PM EDT

[Lassr]

I want to go back to my vote on  Zarathud 
 

[Scoop20906]

the silence is deafening.

Monday is the deadline. I am digesting the info and plan on voting today, I'm not sure I want to vote Unagi yet.

Yeah I felt like maybe I killed the thread. OK. Can people vote please? We know the weekend (not the rapper) will be quiet so we better start voting today.


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[Unagi]

I want to go back to my vote on  Zarathud 
 

Here is my Number One main issue with Zarathud.

If he is a wolf - and I managed to get him lynched I would look like a ROSE. (cause he's been trying to get me lynched tirelessly)

I have trouble imagining the wolves doing that. (Same issue I have with Archinerd). (as I am GOOD and that will eventually be learned, if they ever 'get their way'.)

This is why I am really interested in those that would like them tested, as I feel like THOSE players are wolves who want a 'Civilian Zarathud Death' to 'seal the deal' against Unagi.

See what I am seeing here?

[Lassr]

I want to go back to my vote on  Zarathud 
 

Here is my Number One main issue with Zarathud.

If he is a wolf - and I managed to get him lynched I would look like a ROSE. (cause he's been trying to get me lynched tirelessly)

I have trouble imagining the wolves doing that. (Same issue I have with Archinerd). (as I am GOOD and that will eventually be learned, if they ever 'get their way'.)

This is why I am really interested in those that would like them tested, as I feel like THOSE players are wolves who want a 'Civilian Zarathud Death' to 'seal the deal' against Unagi.

See what I am seeing here?

[Remus West]

I could go with Zarathud or El Guapo. I'm just not seeing the Unagi thing so the only way I'll vote there is deadline as thing stand now.

[Punisher]

Also, I'd love to see some threat lists from everyone today.

We haven't hit an Imp yet. We are down one special that we know of. Maybe more. The Imps seem to have made a mistake proving Moliere. Lets see if we can make them pay for it.

At this point, the only who would know what roles were removed is OB1, correct?
Is it worth it for him to post his results or is this along the same vein where specials should never reveal themselves unless threatened?

[Archinerd]

Are we sure Emperor Palpatine isn't one of the Imperial specials this game? I'm pretty sure Punisher would be great at it.

[Lassr]

Also, I'd love to see some threat lists from everyone today.

We haven't hit an Imp yet. We are down one special that we know of. Maybe more. The Imps seem to have made a mistake proving Moliere. Lets see if we can make them pay for it.

At this point, the only who would know what roles were removed is OB1, correct?
Is it worth it for him to post his results or is this along the same vein where specials should never reveal themselves unless threatened?

it is a judgement call. If the special has info that can help the team then they do not want to risk it dying with them in a night kill.

[Punisher]

Are we sure Emperor Palpatine isn't one of the Imperial specials this game? I'm pretty sure Punisher would be great at it.

Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design.

[Scoop20906]

Votes?


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[Punisher]

Votes?
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I'm waiting until last minute most likely unless something happens to sway my vote one way or the other.
I just don't know you people enough to know what you "sound like" as good or evil..

[Archinerd]

The problem with waiting until the last minute Emperor, is that we don't have any time to react if a Special is accidentally outed.

[Holman]

Right. When we vote someone to N-1 and they claim Special, we need a time to debate and reconsider what evidence might be out there.

[Unagi]

 RMC 
 

[Punisher]

OK. back to newbieville (or coaching, depending on your point of view)

Archinerd makes a slightly better point than Holman, but to both of them...
Unless some crazy voting happens within the first real-time day, why don't the people in jeopardy speak up sooner? Why do we need to give them extra time? Not against anyone specific, but in general... We seem to have plenty of time up to the run off.. Is this purely game etiquette ? Or is there tactic/strategy for this? (Other than a wolf protecting a wolf)

[Holman]

Good Specials usually get to use their powers at night. The more days they survive without exposing themselves, the more data they collect. The hope is that a Special will live a long time, collect a lot of info, and have a chance to reveal all that info and die (if they must) in a way that proves them Good, thus verifying the info.

For instance, right now no one is in jeopardy. Unagi has 5 votes, but that's N-3, so he's not in immediate danger of a sudden lynch. It's possible that something could happen to rocket someone else to 6 or 7 votes in the next couple of days, so even a Special Unagi would not want to spill his beans yet.

The reason N-1 is important is that you want a potential Special to have a chance to reveal their role and their information before dying. Anyone putting the last vote on a target before they declare themselves Special or mundane is immediately suspicious. (Dooku's secret vote means that, in this game, N-2 is the new N-1.)

Of course the wrinkle is that lynch-vulnerable wolves will declare themselves Special at the last minute in order to muddy the water and buy time, especially if it means spoiling the lynch at the last minute and provoking a panic rush on someone else.

Is this what you're asking about?