Starship R. Scott III - Guards Win!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:42 am

Scoop20906 wrote:Night Sequence of Resolution:
Symbiont order is processed.
Alien's order is processed.
Computer Hacker's medical report is decrypted.

Holman is not currently a host, as he would have shown up on the scan.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:42 am

Last person to touch their nose gets shot in the face by Holman!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:43 am

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:49 am

I'm going to meet with students for a few hours, but after that somebody dies.

Come Get Some! or whatever.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:51 am

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:17 am

Lagom Lite wrote:
Vorret wrote:Maybe the alien locked himself as a ruse
More deception.

Vorret isn't this clueless...

You guys are a tough public I'll refrain from making jokes from now on

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:21 am

bb2112 wrote:
Holman wrote:We have the usual first-day kill problem, but it's doubled. We've got to pick a lynch, but I'm also likely to be killed by the alien tonight, so my gun will be lost unless I fire it today.

We don't really have a protector, do we? The symbiont could lock me down, but I can't see why he would want to keep a marine alive.

How do we decide, people? Do we take our chances with *two* random Day One kills?
Looking over the rules, in order to win, this is going to be a game of mass carnage. We only have 6 days, 12 people, and unless we get majorly lucky, there will be 1 Alien and 2 infected (1 infected already). The infected will not even know they are infected so it is not like we can look for some kind of potential mistake in their posts. Therefore locating and killing the infected is going to be pure luck.

All this being said, I agree with Holman's assessment, he should kill someone before the Alien kills him and takes away his ability. This being day 1, and the fact that we will never know who the infected is, pull a name out of a hat and announce it (we don't want to kill our hacker). The only person I would not shoot is RW today. However tomorrow he could be infected, so he is fair game then. Once you take your kill shot, then we have to lynch someone.

Maybe unlikely but it's possible the alien tried to kill Remus and failed and nobody is currently infected, though it's better to assume someone is.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:22 am

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:34 am

Vorret wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:
Vorret wrote:Maybe the alien locked himself as a ruse
More deception.

Vorret isn't this clueless...
You guys are a tough public I'll refrain from making jokes from now on

Having trouble with human humor?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:35 am

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:40 am

El Guapo wrote: SO, we do know (I'm pretty sure) that Holman is not infected. So the shot would be [NOT Remus or Holman] and the lynch would be [NOT Remus or Holman] as well.

That's how I took it, but I guess it is probably wise to ask to make sure.

Scoop, does the hacker report show us if the person is infected or not? Can the person be infected the same night they are scanned by the hacker and will it show up on the report in the morning?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:30 am

bb2112 wrote:
El Guapo wrote: SO, we do know (I'm pretty sure) that Holman is not infected. So the shot would be [NOT Remus or Holman] and the lynch would be [NOT Remus or Holman] as well.
That's how I took it, but I guess it is probably wise to ask to make sure.

Scoop, does the hacker report show us if the person is infected or not? Can the person be infected the same night they are scanned by the hacker and will it show up on the report in the morning?

Of course Holman, as a guard, has at least a mild incentive to target someone who he thinks is a prisoner or the hacker. Though I'm not sure what info he would have to go on in making that determination. Maybe check for l337 sp3@k.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am

Holman wrote:We have the usual first-day kill problem, but it's doubled. We've got to pick a lynch, but I'm also likely to be killed by the alien tonight, so my gun will be lost unless I fire it today.

We don't really have a protector, do we? The symbiont could lock me down, but I can't see why he would want to keep a marine alive.

How do we decide, people? Do we take our chances with *two* random Day One kills?

Yeah, we're basically sans protector. You're right (I think) that the only 'protection' is the symbiont's cryo-lockdown, but (assuming that I'm reading the victory conditions right), he has no reason to care whether you live or die. I guess he would prefer that the guards die without firing their shots, since more deaths means more chances for the aliens to die instead of getting locked down.

However, the alien does have a limited amount of time to "knock people up". One the one hand they might try to lay both eggs first two nights in case the alien gets killed, though on the other hand holding onto one egg until the end minimizes the chance of a host getting killed before arrival. So possible that the alien might elect to plan the egg over killing you, but probably would kill you if you have an un-fired gun at nightfall.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:01 pm

So....having read the rules finally I have a question. What value is there for the Engineers to remain hidden? The Alien won't want to implant/kill them because then there would be no way for his hosts/himself to get out of lockdown. The Symbiot would want them gone but has no power to remove them save through vote or lockdown and as long as there are two of them lockdown won't work. The Criminals would like them gone only to ensure their secondary victory condition.

Also, as a side question, I may not have read enough but do we learn if the deaders (shot and or lynches - obviously the Alien isn't going to off his own offspring but a deader symbiot killed at night would show with no lockdown ever occurring) are hosts/Alien/Symbiot?

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:46 pm

Remus West wrote:So....having read the rules finally I have a question. What value is there for the Engineers to remain hidden? The Alien won't want to implant/kill them because then there would be no way for his hosts/himself to get out of lockdown. The Symbiot would want them gone but has no power to remove them save through vote or lockdown and as long as there are two of them lockdown won't work. The Criminals would like them gone only to ensure their secondary victory condition.

Also, as a side question, I may not have read enough but do we learn if the deaders (shot and or lynches - obviously the Alien isn't going to off his own offspring but a deader symbiot killed at night would show with no lockdown ever occurring) are hosts/Alien/Symbiot?

I guess that makes sense about the Engineers but if they're known it reduces the pool where the hacker can hide and we need him alive to give us scans result...

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:40 pm

Remus West wrote:So....having read the rules finally I have a question. What value is there for the Engineers to remain hidden? The Alien won't want to implant/kill them because then there would be no way for his hosts/himself to get out of lockdown. The Symbiot would want them gone but has no power to remove them save through vote or lockdown and as long as there are two of them lockdown won't work. The Criminals would like them gone only to ensure their secondary victory condition.

Also, as a side question, I may not have read enough but do we learn if the deaders (shot and or lynches - obviously the Alien isn't going to off his own offspring but a deader symbiot killed at night would show with no lockdown ever occurring) are hosts/Alien/Symbiot?

This is going to cause an endgame problem. Would the Alien avoid choosing an engineer in hopes to minimize lock down potential. Or would he impregnate an Engineer and hope that we wouldn't kill him. Early on it would narrow the pool of who would be the Alien.

I also just had a bad thought. What if RW was the Alien and nobody was impregnated last night. So a conversion may or may not have occurred. Odds say that someone was converted and RW is not the Alien, but then again, Mara Jade. This game is going to make my head hurt with the lack of any reliable information.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:45 pm

Scanner could target Remus tonight. Of course, by then, Holman may be infected.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:48 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Scanner could target Remus tonight. Of course, by then, Holman may be infected.

I say we target Holman every night to make sure

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:52 pm

Vorret wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Scanner could target Remus tonight. Of course, by then, Holman may be infected.
I say we target Holman every night to make sure

Nuking from orbit is the only way to be sure.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:54 pm

On the topic of Engineers. If they both come forward that just means we have to kill them so the alien can't use them as an Easter basket. Then, without their ability, the Symbiot has an easier time. At least for now, I think they should keep their heads down.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:56 pm

His primary objective is to kill the alien first.

Our team goals are secondary to that.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:59 pm

Archinerd wrote:On the topic of Engineers. If they both come forward that just means we have to kill them

Says the friggin' Convict.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:05 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Archinerd wrote:On the topic of Engineers. If they both come forward that just means we have to kill them
Says the friggin' Convict.

Says the friggin' Symbiot.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:09 pm

bb2112 wrote:
Remus West wrote:So....having read the rules finally I have a question. What value is there for the Engineers to remain hidden? The Alien won't want to implant/kill them because then there would be no way for his hosts/himself to get out of lockdown. The Symbiot would want them gone but has no power to remove them save through vote or lockdown and as long as there are two of them lockdown won't work. The Criminals would like them gone only to ensure their secondary victory condition.

Also, as a side question, I may not have read enough but do we learn if the deaders (shot and or lynches - obviously the Alien isn't going to off his own offspring but a deader symbiot killed at night would show with no lockdown ever occurring) are hosts/Alien/Symbiot?
This is going to cause an endgame problem. Would the Alien avoid choosing an engineer in hopes to minimize lock down potential. Or would he impregnate an Engineer and hope that we wouldn't kill him. Early on it would narrow the pool of who would be the Alien.

I also just had a bad thought. What if RW was the Alien and nobody was impregnated last night. So a conversion may or may not have occurred. Odds say that someone was converted and RW is not the Alien, but then again, Mara Jade. This game is going to make my head hurt with the lack of any reliable information.

My understanding is that it's not a "conversion" exactly. I.e. the human hosts remain as humans, don't know that they're knocked up, and will act normally (i.e. they won't start cooperating with the alien). They just provide an additional (unknowing) winning condition for the alien (and, I suppose, for the symbiont if locked down).

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:16 pm

Divergent Corp Victory: The alien organism and/or at least one host human is locked down in its cryo pod at the end of 6 course corrections. The Symbiont does not need to be alive to win.

The only reason to kill the Engineers is to help the Symbiont win.
If the Symbiont captures the Alien or an Infected, he wins.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:17 pm

Alien Victory: Alien organism wins if it and/or a human host is alive and not locked down in its cryo pod when the STARSHIP arrives at earth.

Hmmm.

Do the infected win as Aliens?
Does the Alien need to be alive?
Does a Symbiont win trump the Alien (say, one loose, one locked?)

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:17 pm

Human Victory: Alien organism is destroyed and all human hosts are destroyed before arriving at Earth in 6 course corrections.
Human Sub-Victory A - Marine Guards and Engineer: When the overall human victory is achieved, Marine Guard, Engineer, and Symbiont are equal to or out number the Computer Hacker and Convicts.
Human Sub-Victory B - Computer Hacker and Convicts: When the overall human victory is achieved, Computer Hacker and Convicts out number the Marine Guard, Engineer, and Symbiont.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:21 pm

El Guapo wrote:My understanding is that it's not a "conversion" exactly. I.e. the human hosts remain as humans, don't know that they're knocked up, and will act normally (i.e. they won't start cooperating with the alien). They just provide an additional (unknowing) winning condition for the alien (and, I suppose, for the symbiont if locked down).

And this means that the only player who ever possesses any secret information is the alien. He knows who carries his eggs (or who the symbiont is if he tried an egg on it).

No one else knows anything, right? I can't imagine how the symbiont is expected to lock up the alien or a host except through pure chance. I guess his main strategy is to survive long enough to see the alien or a host scanned after the marines are dead and a lynch has become mathematically difficult.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:22 pm

Yeah the Symbiant doesn't want us to kill the alien so technically he's in bed with him (unless he somehow manages to know an infected player he can lock up on the last day)

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:22 pm

Players who are locked down in a cryo pod may be voted for. The alien organism may NOT attempt to implant a egg into a player that has been locked down in his cryo pod. The guards MAY use their one shot incinerator guns to kill a player who is locked down in their cryo pod.

Without Engineers, the voting and 2 shots would be needed to avoid the Symbiont win.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:25 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Players who are locked down in a cryo pod may be voted for. The alien organism may NOT attempt to implant a egg into a player that has been locked down in his cryo pod. The guards MAY use their one shot incinerator guns to kill a player who is locked down in their cryo pod.

Without Engineers, the voting and 2 shots would be needed to avoid the Symbiont win.

I fail to see how engineers change the outcome ?

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:28 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Divergent Corp Victory: The alien organism and/or at least one host human is locked down in its cryo pod at the end of 6 course corrections. The Symbiont does not need to be alive to win.

The only reason to kill the Engineers is to help the Symbiont win.
If the Symbiont captures the Alien or an Infected, he wins.

Also helps the Convicts win. Which you already know based on your comment to me earlier.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:31 pm

Alien Organism
The Alien Organism has to ability to kill or implant an alien egg in human beings turning them into hosts. The alien player only has two eggs. However, the process is time consuming and can only be performed during the course correction when the humans are incapacitated in their cryo pods. The alien organism can not attack players in a locked down cryo pod.

Hmmmm.

Is the Alien told to target someone else?
Or is it a Miss for the try?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:33 pm

Vorret wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Players who are locked down in a cryo pod may be voted for. The alien organism may NOT attempt to implant a egg into a player that has been locked down in his cryo pod. The guards MAY use their one shot incinerator guns to kill a player who is locked down in their cryo pod.

Without Engineers, the voting and 2 shots would be needed to avoid the Symbiont win.
I fail to see how engineers change the outcome ?

Engineer UNLOCK.

Symbi needs to have LOCKED a specimen.

With no Engineers, the Specimens remain locked.
We have one vote per day.
Symbiont locks down one per day.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:36 pm

Holman wrote:
El Guapo wrote:My understanding is that it's not a "conversion" exactly. I.e. the human hosts remain as humans, don't know that they're knocked up, and will act normally (i.e. they won't start cooperating with the alien). They just provide an additional (unknowing) winning condition for the alien (and, I suppose, for the symbiont if locked down).
And this means that the only player who ever possesses any secret information is the alien. He knows who carries his eggs (or who the symbiont is if he tried an egg on it).

No one else knows anything, right? I can't imagine how the symbiont is expected to lock up the alien or a host except through pure chance. I guess his main strategy is to survive long enough to see the alien or a host scanned after the marines are dead and a lynch has become mathematically difficult.

The Symbiont has the same "info" the rest of us do, and wants to CAPTURE the same targets we want to KILL (Alien and Infected)
So the same logic we use to determine likely targets gives him the same target.
But we need Majority to eliminate, he just needs to say LOCK.

This is my point on the Engineers stalemating the Symbi.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:36 pm

And there are two to keep the Symbi from locking them out, as they unlock each other.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:38 pm

Vorret wrote:Yeah the Symbiant doesn't want us to kill the alien so technically he's in bed with him (unless he somehow manages to know an infected player he can lock up on the last day)

Alien only needs one of potentially 3 players unlocked to win.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:39 pm

Wait, no.

Symbiont wins if Live Specimen LOCKED.

Alien only wins if free? The And/Or is messing with me on that one.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:43 pm

SCOOP

Scenarios:

Alien dead, Infected Host alive and Unlocked.

Alien alive, LOCKED, but Infect Host alive and Unlocked.

Alien alive UNLOCKED, but Infect Host alive and LOCKED

Who wins? In scenarios 2 and 3 Symbiont has a Specimen.
Do all living Alien Plus living Infected need to be Unlocked for an Alien win?
Scenario One has a Dead Alien, but Infected alive.

And again, do Infected win with Alien or just fulfill Victory Condition?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:45 pm

Archinerd wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Divergent Corp Victory: The alien organism and/or at least one host human is locked down in its cryo pod at the end of 6 course corrections. The Symbiont does not need to be alive to win.

The only reason to kill the Engineers is to help the Symbiont win.
If the Symbiont captures the Alien or an Infected, he wins.
Also helps the Convicts win. Which you already know based on your comment to me earlier.

Hey, all we need from you guys is your Hacker and his Scans.
Other than that yer Cattle for the Airlock