BSG XI-Amduatey Virus-Game over

[Vorret]

By the way, they're not Civilians they're Citizens.

[stessier]

If you lynch me, we lose the game.

Why? If you are good, we have enough misses to absorb the mistake.

[Unagi]

El Guapo felt mostly good, and clearly was.

I don't understand this comment.

Yeah, I agree that the "clearly was" part is confusing.

Sorry, I was trying to mirror your humor there.

1 Vorret---------- Boomer?
2 El Guapo------- Pure as the driven snow
3 Unagi---------- ?
4 Holman-------- Lean good
5 Chaosraven--- ? - Secret mime
6 tru1cy---------- Probably a humble villager
7 Newcastle----- Lean good
8 Stessier-------- ?

[Vorret]

If you lynch me, we lose the game.

Why? If you are good, we have enough misses to absorb the mistake.

You'll never know if I was since obviously Apolo is dead if they're faking his role.

[Unagi]

If you lynch me, we lose the game.

Why? If you are good, we have enough misses to absorb the mistake.

He's not good, and that's why he said it.

[stessier]

If you lynch me, we lose the game.

Why? If you are good, we have enough misses to absorb the mistake.

You'll never know if I was since obviously Apolo is dead if they're faking his role.

If we find another Cylon after your lynch and the game doesn't end, it will be pretty obvious.

[Vorret]

If you lynch me, we lose the game.

Why? If you are good, we have enough misses to absorb the mistake.

You'll never know if I was since obviously Apolo is dead if they're faking his role.

If we find another Cylon after your lynch and the game doesn't end, it will be pretty obvious.

You should lynch Unagi next then since he's obviously lying.
Sigh, I hate losing.

[Unagi]

Interesting. That makes sense. Obviously if Unagi's lying and there's a real Apollo out there you should counter, although that would be pretty surprising.

Unagi, I'd be interested in your case against Newcastle, so if you could post it before night (game time) that would be great, as I am assuming that you will be dead tomorrow (unless you are lying, or the wolves try to make it look like you are lying). I've been leaning good on Newcastle today, but honestly I trust your assessments (assuming for the moment that you are telling the truth) much more than mine in these games.

Thanks. (?)
I'm not entirely sold on your alignment here but you've felt good for most of the game (normal, I should just say...) so - honor system here- you really want to know what I see in Newcastle right?

First, Newcastle has done something I've seen before which is where he plants an accusatory comment early on me - ignores my question of it, and then he brings it up again later as some big reveal.
In this game it was back on the Moliere train and he seems to think I was a 'big player' there. Re-read that part of the game. I was not even around very much at the start of this game and I had about Zero to do with that train.
Newcastle was trying to get me lynched early and hasn't seemed to have ever changed his mind. It's fake. He didn't want to ever push it too hard - cause it wasn't a popular idea... Now there is some Unagi talk and Newcastle came out of the woodwork to remind everyone that he thought I was a wolf at the start of the game.

Additionally, I look for people positioning themselves at the end game - and I saw Newcastle jumping on the Vorret immediately, but I felt like only really I should have been so quick to want him lynched, and I felt Newcastle was perhaps there to look good. (mind you - it was absolutely the right place to put a vote) - Perhaps born from paranoia - I pictured him killing me this night and him saying he highly suspected me was to be his cover.

That's pretty much it.

[Vorret]

 Unagi 
 


Since he's lying but I'm the only one on the train

[Vorret]

I wonder if the Stessier block was some kind of trap to make me look bad (even though I didn't help myself with the night instead of day...).

Hmm

[Unagi]

 Unagi 
 


Since he's lying but I'm the only one on the train

Almost forgot to, right?

[Vorret]

also now that I know one wolf for sure I shall go over the thread

[Holman]

 withdraw stessier 
 


Obviously he won't be today's lynch, but I honestly don't know whether to vote Vorret or Unagi now.

Unagi's claim feels too convenient. Didn't we just more or less determine that Specials shouldn't come out since Vorret was pretty clearly going down? So why would Apollo choose this point to come out, marking himself for death tonight, just to make sure we put the nails on Vorret?

We definitely should *not* lynch Vorret until we know everyone has checked in since Unagi's claim.

[Vorret]

I agree with Holman here, I'm not exactly sure why he came out now instead of tomorrow, odd timing.
Now, if you all believe me, and you should, the only way Unagi makes this move as a veteran player is by knowing Apollo isn't in the game anymore which really blows.

I'm probably going to get lynched anyway BUT the ONLY way you'll know FOR SURE if I'm lying or telling the truth is by killing Unagi. He just opened the door to do just that, I wasn't sure on Stessier but Unagi claimed to have scanned someone else as Tigh.
If you kill me, you'll get back a Cylon diagnostic and wonder if I was telling the truth or not BUT if you kill Unagi and he comes back Cylon then you know for sure I was telling the truth.

In my mind, it's the logical move, it won't be a miss, he just dug his own grave like Scoop did.

[Lassr]

LASSR

Not sure if this was asked.....and i am not gonna re-read the thread. BUT....does Gaeta get a scan of people regardless of the lynched cylon's alignment?

Gaeta does not care about the alignment as long as the Cylon is dead...

So yes he gets the scan.

[Lassr]

Players ------- Voted For:
Vorret---------- Unagi
El Guapo-------
Unagi---------- vorret
Holman--------
Chaosraven--- vorret
tru1cy---------- Chaosraven
Newcastle----- vorret
Stessier--------
.
.
.
Targets ----------- Voters
Chaosraven--- 1 )--- tru1cy
)--- ---
Vorret---------- 3 )--- newcastle --- chaosraven --- Unagi
Unagi---------- 1 )--- vorret
)---
)---
)---
.
Deaths
Moliere-------- Injected
BB2112--------- Saw the light
Grundbegriff-- forever sleep
Punisher------ Punished
Scoop--------- miscalculated
Archinerd'---- Blown
RemusWest-- Gone South

Majority = 5
Deadline is: 31-May -6PM [/color]

[Unagi]

Unagi's claim feels too convenient. Didn't we just more or less determine that Specials shouldn't come out since Vorret was pretty clearly going down? So why would Apollo choose this point to come out, marking himself for death tonight, just to make sure we put the nails on Vorret?.

Ummm, what ?

I almost came out the second I saw Vorret's claim - but wanted to see how people were acting toward his lynch. There was no way I was going to go into this night and risk being killed and letting you all think that Vorret was maybe real.

Can you explain to me how that doesn't make perfect sense?

Reporting on THIS EXACT THING is EXACTLY what the whole point of my role IS. Why Why WHY would I just sit on it?

Perhaps you are thinking of the world where maybe Apollo was going to be testing Vorret, but I've been sitting on my Punisher scan all damn day dude.

[El Guapo]

Unagi's claim feels too convenient. Didn't we just more or less determine that Specials shouldn't come out since Vorret was pretty clearly going down? So why would Apollo choose this point to come out, marking himself for death tonight, just to make sure we put the nails on Vorret?.

Ummm, what ?

I almost came out the second I saw Vorret's claim - but wanted to see how people were acting toward his lynch. There was no way I was going to go into this night and risk being killed and letting you all think that Vorret was maybe real.

Can you explain to me how that doesn't make perfect sense?

Reporting on THIS EXACT THING is EXACTLY what the whole point of my role IS. Why Why WHY would I just sit on it?

Perhaps you are thinking of the world where maybe Apollo was going to be testing Vorret, but I've been sitting on my Punisher scan all damn day dude.

He may be referring to my earlier conclusion that Apollo, if he'd found Tigh's corpse, shouldn't come out as long as it looked like we were going to lynch Vorret, because that would mean exposing himself without changing what the village was doing. Though that was just my recommendation / thought, not something that "we decided" (though obviously I am very persuasive and a natural leader).

Also, bear in mind that even after the reveal we will still have the risk that Vorret was telling the truth, because he'll come back cylon regardless and you could be lying.

[Unagi]

Can I ask why you felt it was better for me to stay silent all night and share this information in the morning only - cause I didn't get that.

[Unagi]

To answer your concern though, I felt my night death tonight would end up being the proof, and I didn't want for that to be delayed a whole day - because tomorrow you all would have tested stessier and you know it.

[Unagi]

Can I ask why you felt it was better for me to stay silent all night and share this information in the morning only - cause I didn't get that.

I'd love for Holman to try and articulate that distinction too.

[El Guapo]

Can I ask why you felt it was better for me to stay silent all night and share this information in the morning only - cause I didn't get that.

My thinking was mainly that there was no need to expose yourself to the wolves if the village is doing what you would recommend anyway, so stay hidden, do another post mortem scan tonight, then probably reveal the full set of information tomorrow. But if the village moved away and started to lean towards lynching stessier or whoever, then the information would be critical.

[Holman]

Can I ask why you felt it was better for me to stay silent all night and share this information in the morning only - cause I didn't get that.

I'd love for Holman to try and articulate that distinction too.

Apollo isn't limited to scanning the previous day's lynch. Every night he can scan another dead player. You wouldn't have to scan Vorret.

Coming out just before the almost certain lynch of Vorret in order to make us lynch Vorret gives us nothing. It only sacrifices Apollo and whatever info he stands to gain in the coming night.

[Unagi]

The village was doing what I wanted... I just needed them to know what they were doing. Waiting until tomorrow would have not helped that, what would you have said to me tomorrow??

This way my death actually has value. If I was killed tonight without sharing this - c'mon. No way.

[Unagi]

Can I ask why you felt it was better for me to stay silent all night and share this information in the morning only - cause I didn't get that.

I'd love for Holman to try and articulate that distinction too.

Apollo isn't limited to scanning the previous day's lynch. Every night he can scan another dead player. You wouldn't have to scan Vorret.

Coming out just before the almost certain lynch of Vorret in order to make us lynch Vorret gives us nothing. It only sacrifices Apollo and whatever info he stands to gain in the coming night.

THERE IS NOTHING LEFT FOR ME TO LEARN - BUBBA!

[Holman]

The fact is that you just volunteered for death to make us accomplish what we were already accomplishing.

Yes, there was a chance that you could be killed tonight, but that goes for any Special. I don't think anyone had even proposed that you were Apollo, so you weren't under any more suspicion that me.

To answer your concern though, I felt my night death tonight would end up being the proof, and I didn't want for that to be delayed a whole day - because tomorrow you all would have tested stessier and you know it.

It's interesting that the reason you gave for coming out now was to prevent us from testing Stessier tomorrow. Scoop, it still seems to me, was acting from the very same motive.

[El Guapo]

The village was doing what I wanted... I just needed them to know what they were doing. Waiting until tomorrow would have not helped that, what would you have said to me tomorrow??

This way my death actually has value. If I was killed tonight without sharing this - c'mon. No way.

Although - are they going to kill you now? Come to think of it, why would they forego the doubt Vorret?

[stessier]

Holman's fascination with me is why I think he might be a bad guy. Not for personal reasons, but the fact that he wants to test someone during the Day who has shown no fear of death. I find that telling.

As for testing Unagi today, that's just stupid. We take out Vorret. If Unagi dies tonight, we get our answer on Vorret. If he lives, which would be odd as it's possible Gaeta is dead or will be dead and worth finding as well as skipping the easy kill puts Anders in play, then we could always lynch him to confirm. The longer he lives, the worse he looks.

All of this is assuming we don't have anyone counterclaim.

[El Guapo]

The village was doing what I wanted... I just needed them to know what they were doing. Waiting until tomorrow would have not helped that, what would you have said to me tomorrow??

This way my death actually has value. If I was killed tonight without sharing this - c'mon. No way.

Although - are they going to kill you now? Come to think of it, why would they forego the doubt around Vorret?

Correcting my typo here, which was bothering me.

[stessier]

The village was doing what I wanted... I just needed them to know what they were doing. Waiting until tomorrow would have not helped that, what would you have said to me tomorrow??

This way my death actually has value. If I was killed tonight without sharing this - c'mon. No way.

Although - are they going to kill you now? Come to think of it, why would they forego the doubt around Vorret?

Correcting my typo here, which was bothering me.

I had no idea what you meant, so fixing was useful.

I would say they take him out so they can spoof Gaeta (if he's dead) and because they risk hitting Anders if they start killing blindly. Hitting him gets us an extra lynch, so they have to take the threat seriously.

[Holman]

Unagi is right that (by his claim) Apollo has no more to offer.

I'm a slow thinker in this game, so people should let me know if any of this makes sense:

Lynching Vorret tells us nothing as he'll come back Cylon.
--If he was really Tigh, obviously the Cylons won't kill Unagi because they'll not hit one of their own (Unagi).
--If Vorret was not Tigh but a bad Cylon, the Cylons will still let Unagi live because it will sow confusion and because Apollo/Unagi is no longer useful (except to make a claim about Vorret's specific role that we won't know whether to believe).

However, if we lynch Unagi...
--If he comes back human, Vorret is proven to be a wolf and Stessier is proven good. We lynch Vorret and have only one Cylon left to find.
--If he comes back Cylon, Vorret is proven good, we know Stessier is the remaining Cylon, and we win the game by lynching him.

What am I missing?

[Holman]

In other words, lynching Vorret is ambiguous: we kill no wolf or one, and we don't even know which it is. We gain no info leading to a second wolf the next day.

Lynching Unagi gives us something: again we kill no wolf or one, but we act with certainty the next day, killing either one wolf (and gaining a proven into the bargain) or killing the second (and winning the game).

[Vorret]

You're not missing anything, the logical choice is lynching unagi that way you hit 2 birds with one stone. Beside, if you lynch unagi I'll die overnight they won't let a scanner live.

Lassr, can Boomer block/fake itself?

[stessier]

However, if we lynch Unagi...
--If he comes back human, Vorret is proven to be a wolf and Stessier is proven good. We lynch Vorret and have only one Cylon left to find.
--If he comes back Cylon, Vorret is proven good, we know Stessier is the remaining Cylon, and we win the game by lynching him.

What am I missing?

I am not proven anything in the lynch. Vorret's whole claim he was blocked from reading me. If Vorret is bad, that doesn't mean I'm good. If Vorret is good, that doesn't mean I'm bad.

Letting the Cylons kill Unagi is a much better choice - we get all of the information with none of the mess.

[Holman]

The Cylons won't kill Unagi. He said himself that as Apollo his utility is spent, and they'll be much happier leaving him alive to leave us with doubt.

I think my scenario maximizes the info that we can get from today's lynch. It doesn't even depend on people genuinely suspecting either Vorret or Unagi.

[Vorret]

However, if we lynch Unagi...
--If he comes back human, Vorret is proven to be a wolf and Stessier is proven good. We lynch Vorret and have only one Cylon left to find.
--If he comes back Cylon, Vorret is proven good, we know Stessier is the remaining Cylon, and we win the game by lynching him.

What am I missing?

I am not proven anything in the lynch. Vorret's whole claim he was blocked from reading me. If Vorret is bad, that doesn't mean I'm good. If Vorret is good, that doesn't mean I'm bad.

Letting the Cylons kill Unagi is a much better choice - we get all of the information with none of the mess.

They won't kill Unagi since he's a Cylon himself, you may be good, who knows, it may have been a play to create exactly this kind of scenario.
I think Unagi coming out is a blessing for the humans, we can prove I'm good and kill a Cylon in the process much better than killing me (no info) and having probably Holman die at night since he's the only one that's following my reasonning (maybe newcastle since he's also a big on Unagi).

Then you lynch Unagi tomorrow , well lookie here he's a Cylon, ooops we fucked up!

[Holman]

The main thing is that we get *nothing* from lynching Vorret, not today and not in the long run.

My plan is about trying to squeeze some information out of today's action.

[Holman]

Therefore,
 Unagi 
 

[stessier]

Can I ask why you felt it was better for me to stay silent all night and share this information in the morning only - cause I didn't get that.

I'd love for Holman to try and articulate that distinction too.

Apollo isn't limited to scanning the previous day's lynch. Every night he can scan another dead player. You wouldn't have to scan Vorret.

Coming out just before the almost certain lynch of Vorret in order to make us lynch Vorret gives us nothing. It only sacrifices Apollo and whatever info he stands to gain in the coming night.

THERE IS NOTHING LEFT FOR ME TO LEARN - BUBBA!

There is Gaeta.

[Unagi]

Therefore,
 Unagi 
 

Partner or Traitor ?