Octopus Overlords

You can look at the units other players have (or can have?), but couldn’t figure out a way to see that same info for neutral units. Perhaps they were in there and I just missed it, though.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:You can look at the units other players have (or can have?), but couldn’t figure out a way to see that same info for neutral units. Perhaps they were in there and I just missed it, though.

I think the manual has the information

Fardaza wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:58 am
Note to Ralph-Wiggum and Archinerd ..... All scouts must die!

Naturally. This is a boiler plate clause in any potential Alliance so I didn't think it was worth mentioning.

(1) Is there some sort of turn report you can look at to see events since the prior turn? In particular, there was a nearby army at the start of my prior turn that's not there anymore. I'm curious whether it attacked me (and lost) or wandered in a different direction? Thinking the latter, but would be nice to know (and to know how to know that sort of thing).

(2) I looked at a different report and there's a relationship status with each other player. Of note, of three players that I am currently at war with, one has a status of "anger", one of "distrust" and one of "hatred". What determines that? I assume that this is just flavor?

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:58 am You can look at the units other players have (or can have?), but couldn’t figure out a way to see that same info for neutral units. Perhaps they were in there and I just missed it, though.

How do you look at the units that other players have?

There's a gem at the top center of the screen that shows previous turn battle reports.

El Guapo wrote:

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:58 am You can look at the units other players have (or can have?), but couldn’t figure out a way to see that same info for neutral units. Perhaps they were in there and I just missed it, though.

How do you look at the units that other players have?

I believe it's the side lists. You'll see the armies available to each side and can right click to see the base stats.

It's just the general info, you'll only see actual stats with modifiers if you attack a stack.

Turn 11 sent to Ralph-Wiggums.

NickAragua wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:01 am There's a gem at the top center of the screen that shows previous turn battle reports.

That gem will be blinking if there were any battles.

Gem at the bottom will be blinking if there are any diplomatic changes/offers.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:35 am

El Guapo wrote:

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:58 am You can look at the units other players have (or can have?), but couldn’t figure out a way to see that same info for neutral units. Perhaps they were in there and I just missed it, though.

How do you look at the units that other players have?

I believe it's the side lists. You'll see the armies available to each side and can right click to see the base stats.

It's just the general info, you'll only see actual stats with modifiers if you attack a stack.

Sides list, correct (bottom middle button in the 6 icons that show information, has an option for sides list). Click on each player to see their armies.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:06 pm (2) I looked at a different report and there's a relationship status with each other player. Of note, of three players that I am currently at war with, one has a status of "anger", one of "distrust" and one of "hatred". What determines that? I assume that this is just flavor?

For us, it's flavor. For the AI - it's a like status - you are not likely to get an alliance with someone who hates you and you more likely going to have your relationship drop some rather than going straight from Trust to War with the AI players.

Actions, proximity help determine it. Guessing there's probably some starting alignment based on core units or something as well (good vs evil vs undead sort of thing), as they do not all start out the same. You can send bribes too (presumably helpful to deter AI from declaring war on you - but if you think it will help, I will gladly accept bribes from anyone who wants to give me some).

Zenn7 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:48 am I will gladly accept bribes from anyone who wants to give me some).

Looking at combat guides...am I understanding this correctly that when two stacks of units fight, it's basically the first unit in the attacking stack fights the first unit in the defending stack, until one dies, at which point the next unit in that stack steps up? So that it matters the order in which you have units within a particular stack?

Yes, and you can change your fight order (unit types only, no customization by stack). Heroes are always last, can't change that.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:06 pm Yes, and you can change your fight order (unit types only, no customization by stack). Heroes are always last, can't change that.

You generally want your strongest units first, I would think? Unless you want Except to take advantage of certain special abilities (e.g. curse, acid attack, etc.).

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:22 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:06 pm Yes, and you can change your fight order (unit types only, no customization by stack). Heroes are always last, can't change that.

You generally want your strongest units first, I would think? Unless you want Except to take advantage of certain special abilities (e.g. curse, acid attack, etc.).

That depends on their abilities. E.G. some units give bonuses to everyone in the stack - generally you don't want those units to be the first to die - I tend to prioritize saving those units, and early, I'll prioritize flying units with my Hero when he's attacking cities, etc, because Hero mobility is very important.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:53 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:22 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:06 pm Yes, and you can change your fight order (unit types only, no customization by stack). Heroes are always last, can't change that.

You generally want your strongest units first, I would think? Unless you want Except to take advantage of certain special abilities (e.g. curse, acid attack, etc.).

That depends on their abilities. E.G. some units give bonuses to everyone in the stack - generally you don't want those units to be the first to die - I tend to prioritize saving those units, and early, I'll prioritize flying units with my Hero when he's attacking cities, etc, because Hero mobility is very important.

So if you pair a flying unit with a hero, the hero can then fly? What about if other non-flying units are with them?

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:58 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:53 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:22 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:06 pm Yes, and you can change your fight order (unit types only, no customization by stack). Heroes are always last, can't change that.

You generally want your strongest units first, I would think? Unless you want Except to take advantage of certain special abilities (e.g. curse, acid attack, etc.).

That depends on their abilities. E.G. some units give bonuses to everyone in the stack - generally you don't want those units to be the first to die - I tend to prioritize saving those units, and early, I'll prioritize flying units with my Hero when he's attacking cities, etc, because Hero mobility is very important.

So if you pair a flying unit with a hero, the hero can then fly? What about if other non-flying units are with them?

Just the Hero. I can't remember if terrain moves work the same for Heroes, but flying definitely.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:04 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:58 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:53 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:22 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:06 pm Yes, and you can change your fight order (unit types only, no customization by stack). Heroes are always last, can't change that.

You generally want your strongest units first, I would think? Unless you want Except to take advantage of certain special abilities (e.g. curse, acid attack, etc.).

That depends on their abilities. E.G. some units give bonuses to everyone in the stack - generally you don't want those units to be the first to die - I tend to prioritize saving those units, and early, I'll prioritize flying units with my Hero when he's attacking cities, etc, because Hero mobility is very important.

So if you pair a flying unit with a hero, the hero can then fly? What about if other non-flying units are with them?

Just the Hero. I can't remember if terrain moves work the same for Heroes, but flying definitely.

Ok. So flying units are also useful to move heroes between fronts. Though you can also use vectoring.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:53 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:22 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:06 pm Yes, and you can change your fight order (unit types only, no customization by stack). Heroes are always last, can't change that.

You generally want your strongest units first, I would think? Unless you want Except to take advantage of certain special abilities (e.g. curse, acid attack, etc.).

That depends on their abilities. E.G. some units give bonuses to everyone in the stack - generally you don't want those units to be the first to die - I tend to prioritize saving those units, and early, I'll prioritize flying units with my Hero when he's attacking cities, etc, because Hero mobility is very important.

Generally, you want your cheaper/cannon fodder units up front. They have hopefully been buffed by your other troops that are behind them. That way, you cannon fodder can kill their cannon fodder, rather than losing your dragon/kick ass units to lucky cannon fodder.

There is a unit - Dwarven Runner - cheap dwarf scout unit. Strength 1. Hits - 4. With 4 hits, a squad of those will get enough chances (even if with a strength of 1) to eventually take out much more powerful units. That's an extreme example, but the general idea is let that thing go that you can replace in 1 turn rather than potentially losing your 2-4 turn units to the enemy's cannon fodder.

After that, you probably want your special attack (missiles, assassinate, lightening, acid, etc) to let their abilities whittle down your enemy. Then the big guns (saving the strongest for last).

My philosophy anyhow. Which I think is somewhat along the lines of the default order, though I'm sure it could be tweaked to optimize it a little (or at least bend it to your tastes).

Where'd we get stuck?

Not stuck, just couldn't get to it until this evening. Passed on to Dave now.

t12 sent to NIck!

Turn 12 sent to Ralph-Wiggums.

Finally a good quest - explore a ruin that I was planning to move to and explore next!

I'm not complaining, but I feel like in some cases the medal-awarding authorities need to up their standards. One of my units got a medal for killing a random isolated scout. I mean, they did their jobs, but still.

I've killed quite a few people, don't think I have any medals yet. The medal awarding committee is VERY fickle.

I think Archinerd and I have started down a path of mutually assured destruction. Or, at least, we've started down the path of my assured destruction.

Well, you did walk your hero right through the middle of my empire.
I wish I could have hunted him down a bit faster before you pillaged 3 of my forts though!

Note for future games: don’t send your hero into unexplored areas of the map... Also, a 9 out of 10 chance to win a battle may result in only your hero left standing. Whoops!

But I have no idea how you managed to already build up so many high-powered units. It seemed like everywhere I turned you had massive armies.

Getting into some wars!

Kind of feel like I need to put together spreadsheets to get some sense of how my armies are likely to fare in a battle. Sure, once my armies are next to an enemy I can use the "Sire! We are fucked in this battle!" option, but when the armies are a couple turns apart, I have to be, "ok, this is strength 6, but these guys have fear, and these guys have chaos, but those guys have morale...carry the three..."

Yeah, I have absolutely no idea how to gauge that, either. Your army did kill one of my flying bird things though, which is annoying since I don't really know how to replace it.

What I *really* don't understand is why I can click on my own stacks and get a report of "effective strength, hits, bonuses", but I can't on opposing armies that are just as visible.

Turn 13 sent to Ralph-Wiggums.

I have a good feeling about my status after this turn.

Zenn7 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:43 am Turn 13 sent to Ralph-Wiggums.

I have a good feeling about my status after this turn.

What, do you have eight powerful magic items, or something?

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:18 am Getting into some wars!

Kind of feel like I need to put together spreadsheets to get some sense of how my armies are likely to fare in a battle. Sure, once my armies are next to an enemy I can use the "Sire! We are fucked in this battle!" option, but when the armies are a couple turns apart, I have to be, "ok, this is strength 6, but these guys have fear, and these guys have chaos, but those guys have morale...carry the three..."

One thing to remember is that negative effects (Fear, Chaos, Siege) are capped at -1 (each) to the opponents for a max of -3, whereas positive bonuses (Leadership, Morale, Fortification) aren't capped (or may be capped at +5, can't remember), but can be reduced by the negative effects.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:54 pm

Zenn7 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:43 am Turn 13 sent to Ralph-Wiggums.

I have a good feeling about my status after this turn.

What, do you have eight powerful magic items, or something?

Says the guy who probably has the most...

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:19 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:18 am Getting into some wars!

Kind of feel like I need to put together spreadsheets to get some sense of how my armies are likely to fare in a battle. Sure, once my armies are next to an enemy I can use the "Sire! We are fucked in this battle!" option, but when the armies are a couple turns apart, I have to be, "ok, this is strength 6, but these guys have fear, and these guys have chaos, but those guys have morale...carry the three..."

One thing to remember is that negative effects (Fear, Chaos, Siege) are capped at -1 (each) to the opponents for a max of -3, whereas positive bonuses (Leadership, Morale, Fortification) aren't capped (or may be capped at +5, can't remember), but can be reduced by the negative effects.

So if I understand this right, if I have +3 Chaos and +6 Fear, say, then the opponent will (if they have no positive bonuses) have a penalty of -2 to their strength of each unit (-1 from Chaos, -1 from Fear). However, if they had a combined bonus of +9 from leadership, morale, & fortification, then they would wind up with 0 bonus or penalty (as the +9 bonus is offset by a combined -9 penalty).

Is that right?

Also I believe positive bonuses are capped at +5.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:57 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:19 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:18 am Getting into some wars!

Kind of feel like I need to put together spreadsheets to get some sense of how my armies are likely to fare in a battle. Sure, once my armies are next to an enemy I can use the "Sire! We are fucked in this battle!" option, but when the armies are a couple turns apart, I have to be, "ok, this is strength 6, but these guys have fear, and these guys have chaos, but those guys have morale...carry the three..."

One thing to remember is that negative effects (Fear, Chaos, Siege) are capped at -1 (each) to the opponents for a max of -3, whereas positive bonuses (Leadership, Morale, Fortification) aren't capped (or may be capped at +5, can't remember), but can be reduced by the negative effects.

So if I understand this right, if I have +3 Chaos and +6 Fear, say, then the opponent will (if they have no positive bonuses) have a penalty of -2 to their strength of each unit (-1 from Chaos, -1 from Fear). However, if they had a combined bonus of +9 from leadership, morale, & fortification, then they would wind up with 0 bonus or penalty (as the +9 bonus is offset by a combined -9 penalty).

Is that right?

Also I believe positive bonuses are capped at +5.

Not quite - Fear only subtracts from Morale, Chaos only from Leadership and Siege only from Fortification, so it would depend on the makeup of the bonuses. A unit in a fort with a morale bonus could have +3 Fortification, +1 Morale, while the attackers could have +3 Chaos, in which case, the defenders would still have a bonus of +3 (+3 fortification, +1 Morale, -1 Chaos). Make sense?

Man, this Capture the Flag victory condition is brutal!

I fired up about 4 or 5 games and lost all of them. A couple were because of very poor starting positions, but even without that it's hard. If you lose your original hero and his/her beginning item, it's very difficult to recover. Once a hero has 2 or 3 heroes' items, they become uber powerful.

I finally won a scenario, but I was alone in a sea of 15 or so cities. I had good troops coming out after conquering them. I won 2 battles in one turn against opposing heroes. The last fight was only 3 in 10 of winning, but I got lucky! Thus I now controlled 4 "flags". Two opponents were eliminated without me even seeing one of their cities, which is not uncommon. So I knew that the other commander had 3 or 4 flags. Half of the map wasn't explored yet. Suddenly, there she was coming right into the middle of my territory! I attacked with 4 full stacks of units including 2 minor heroes over 2 or 3 turns. All were completely destroyed.

I managed to whittle down her army to only a couple units. When I finally got my main hero with all of her magic items back to the front, the fight was over! Game won.

That's a tough way to win!

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:54 pm

Zenn7 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:43 am Turn 13 sent to Ralph-Wiggums.

I have a good feeling about my status after this turn.

What, do you have eight powerful magic items, or something?

No, just the ring of leveling! HAHAHA! (It's a powerful ring that gives me... +1 to siege).

Hoping I will get a slight army boost next turn though.

Is there a way to rebuild a razed city?

NickAragua wrote:Is there a way to rebuild a razed city?

I think you can, with a unit in the old area. I think it costs 400 or 800 gold.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:50 pm

NickAragua wrote:Is there a way to rebuild a razed city?

I think you can, with a unit in the old area. I think it costs 400 or 800 gold.

You definitely can (it might be something that can be turned off in the setup, but default is on). 800 gold sounds right. Just have to have a unit on the razed site.