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XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:50 am

For the record, I also enjoy when other people share their game experiences as well. As you said, that's why we're here.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:08 pm

I am not a fan of the "rescue vip, defend position for 3 turns while random advent drop in around you, then evac" missions at the best of times. Early game (low squad size, low skills, low tech) in an ironman game? Brutal.

I succeeded, and with only 1 injury, but man talk about stressful. Very little opportunity to plan, every turn is pure reaction to what the enemy did, which new ones showed up, and how many of them there are. You can start from a strong defensive position but then things start falling apart until you're holding on by the skin of your teeth (or it feels that way) by the end.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:14 pm

I'm pretty sure the infirmary does nothing without an engineer stationed there. Can anyone confirm?

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:42 pm

Bah. Lost my first soldier. Only had 5 hp, viper grabbed him doing 2 hp, then I had no choice but to move him the farthest forward which made him the target of the Assassin. He was only bleeding out but he was down to 2 turns by the time I had finished the Chosen and his summon and I didn't have any medikits. Worse, it was conscious decision not to bring one. I wasn't expecting a Chosen. I thought there was 1 more pod left on the map, but there wasn't. I could have finished the mission (X4 charges) in 2 turns if I had known, but I didn't.

Low Cpl Sharpshooter bled out 1 turn before the mission ended. He didn't have to, as I activated 2 pods at once and the Chosen arrived (entered combat) on the turn after I finished both. If I hadn't activated both pods, I could have killed the viper before it had a chance to grab him. If I had positioned better I wouldn't have had to move my lowest hp soldier the farthest forward making him a priority target for the Assassin.

Sad. I crushed the mission, killed the Assassin on my first turn after she started my soldier bleeding out, and yet I lost a soldier and that always makes me unhappy. Even if he was barely above squaddie.

Bah. I'm going after the Assassin as early as I can, which isn't very early, given the multiple covert ops involved, including needing a Major for the last one.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:53 pm

Been a pretty quiet weekend, and the little I did play was not notable. I'll see if I can get some more missions in today.

I have magnetic rifles and shotguns, but no new armor or sniper rifles/cannons.

I need to decide when the right time is to start the Alien Hunter DLC or SLG DLC. I could probably do the first AH mission no problem, but that sets the berserker and and Archon rulers free, and those are tough.

While I've read about people taking on SLG with less than I have, I really don't want to make it extra challenging. That said, both these DLCs pay HUGE dividends the earlier you can complete them. Since this is my first WotC Ironman, I might give it a try to get some practice in and test what I'm personally capable for these missions. Yes, other people have shown that it can be done even earlier than this. But can I do it with what I have now? Probably not, but I'm not going to find out just yet. Maybe predator plated armor (which I'm not close to) or more shredding would give me more confidence.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:13 pm

I used at least two covert ops (maybe 3?) to push a soldier to Captain, which allowed me to get a 6th soldier in my squad earlier than I'm used to doing.

And it was just in time for a Lost/Execute General mission. As I started concealed, I set up a overwatch team on the overhead subway track and just watched the ai in action for awhile. I had a Muton and a Purifier in range, plus some Lost.

I just watched and watched. The Purifier ai seems completely broken. Even after the Lost engaged them (neither Lost nor the alien pod was activated, so it was weird to watch them fight) the Purifier did a lot of "I'm not activated yet!" moving around, trying to expose the stealthed soldiers. This is normal behavior for a watched but not activated pod. The problem is that the Lost were beating on him and he wasn't fighting back. Eventually he manages to light a bunch on fire when he got down to 1 hp.

The Lost kept trying to melee the Muton, to predictable effect. Mutons have about a 70% chance to block melee attacks and riposte, for those not in the know.

Eventually all Lost were dead, the Muton was untouched, and the Purifier had 1 hp left. That was probably 3 different pods of Lost dead. With nothing around, the Purifier/Muton kept moving and looking for me. I was well out of range and 2 levels elevated, so it was like watching rats in a maze.

I just kept hitting overwatch, watching. I'm not normally this patient. Not even close. It was probably 15-20 turns in before I did anything but reposition and overwatch. It paid off though, as a second alien pod came looking for me, then moved away giving me free intel on them, and then the General showed up unescorted. I watched a bit more, and when the pod and General were completely exposed, I hit the General hard, leaving him with 2 hp. I tried to shred the Muton's armor (the Dark Event giving everyone armor was up, so the Muton had 2 Armor instead of 1) and missed. Screw it, I shoot the Purifier who is right beside the Muton and he explodes, taking the Muton's cover and armor with it. Huzzah. Muton dies, Templar kills the General and grabs his focus point.

The second pod immediately shows up, even though for 20 turns I only ever saw it once from the exact same positions I'm in. By pure chance, I have the opportunity to set up an overwatch trap, as only 1 of my units is visible. I overwatch everyone, pull back my 1 unit out of sight, and overwatch vaporizes the pod as it advances to get LoS to any soldier.

I then press into the map, discover the last pod, and with all my consumables (grenades, flash grenades, frost grenade) untouched and all my skills off cooldown, I destroy their cover and kill them before they have a chance to react.

So the patience paid off, and I ended the mission with a flawless. I never shot a Lost and never saw another one after the Muton/Purifier killed all the ones visible at the start.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:36 am

The differences in pacing between Legendary and Commander are huge. It feels like I'm way out in front of the difficulty curve now that I've switched back to Commander from Legendary. Everything is ready before you're able to pay for it.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by coopasonic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:44 am

Playing Mutant Year Zero just made me want to play XCOM2 again.

Two more legacy missions to go, playing on the lowest difficulty which I guess gives you lower achievable points but obviously also lower difficulty.
1st series - silver
2nd series - silver
3rd series - gold
4th series - I'm starting to wonder if I can hold on to this bronze... I'm basically rushing it because I want to start a campaign and I've had two deaths and like 50% wounded. On the plus side, I am pretty good at rushing it. Extended timers are for the weak!
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:32 pm

The 4th series reward are cosmetics. You have everything that has any impact in-game already. Unless you plan on making some soldiers with those cosmetics at the start, there is no reason to wait. Finishing the series after you start a game *should* allow any newly generated soldiers (i.e. rookies, soldiers as rewards, etc) to use the new cosmetics.

Actually, the 3rd series are cosmetics. The 4th series are new soldier attitudes I think. Same logic as above still applies. Fire up your campaign when ready.

What I want is a +50% timer, or even +25% timer. The timer tuning is incredibly tight and while many missions can be easily completed with 3 of 8 turns still remaining, some bad luck can make getting your last soldiers to the evac point 1 turn too late.

I don't really have any issues with the base timer being tight, but on Ironman I don't like it. There are plenty of ways for Ironman to go south without forcing the player into an error with a ticking clock. 90% of timer missions can be done with turns to spare. That 10% though, you can easily lose a soldier because he's 1 tile away on the last turn. When I play with doubled turn timers, I tend to check how many turns left before I finish a mission. Most of the time I didn't need the double turn timer. Rarely, I go over, and I consider those a weak mission, but not a failure, because screw that.

I don't mind the timers, and I don't mind them being tight. I'm not comfortable enough in Ironman to take them in stride yet.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by coopasonic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:50 pm

I've always played aggressively and only temper that a little bit for ironman... obviously the reaper is the key to that in WOTC. I never ran the stealth ranger that most people used before WOTC, I just took my lumps. The reaper makes it all so much easier. I try not to judge people for playing however makes them happy, I just don't get extended timers because the timers have almost never posed a problem in my gameplay.

Similarly with, I think it was Jag, disabling the tired mechanic. It's an integral part of the balance of the game... and if you turn that off then I guess nobody is getting shaken so they aren't getting negative traits so you are losing a very cool piece of the game. Turn the difficulty down until you learn how the game works. I try not to judge, but sometimes I fail.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:10 pm

I pretty much agree, and I tend to play games as they exist when released by the developer. Xcom 2 is an exception (and it took years of playing before it was) and 99% of my mods are cosmetic or quality of life mods. Actually, that number is probably 100%.

I never had a problem with the timers and enjoyed the extra tension and difficulty they brought. Prior to the timers overwatch creep was an issue, and not fun or exciting really. The tired mechanic brings a much needed reason to develop A, B and C teams, something that I did out of personal preference anyway. I tend to leave my Colonels behind on any mission that isn't the last mission, as I hate leaving xp on the table. It helps that the difference between a Major and a Colonel is not so great as to matter on most missions.

With the addition of SLG and the Alien Hunters DLCs, there are increased risk/reward options that you are free to choose or not. Those...are scary on Ironman. But that could just be my lack of experience with them. The game was well tuned before the DLCs, and if you succeed with the DLC content, you are actually overpowered for a significant part of the mid-game. If you can finish them with conventional weapons, in the early game, the leap forward in capability you get is pretty much unreasonable, although doing the missions with conventional weapons is pretty unreasonable for most people too.

I put on the double timers for my first Legendary playthrough to give me some breathing room as I adjusted to the new difficulty level. Double is too much. I stayed with double timers on Ironman because I had grown accustomed to the more relaxed mission atmosphere. I don't regret doubling the timers, but neither do I think I will do it for my next ironman game, which could be soon if I really screw up.

Something I've noted is that way back when I was playing vanilla Xcom 2 and C/I games, I rarely made it out of the early game. A number of games made it to midgame and a few made it to late game. I never did finish although I did abandon a few for no reason at all that I can remember. Like, things were going well and then I just stopped playing. This time I've made it to mag weapons only a couple of months in. Now some of that are the new hero classes. Templar guaranteed damage at squaddie or corporal is unbelievably powerful. Being able to do guaranteed damage from range in cover once he gets a focus point is amazing. Even more powerful that the Reaper's early abilities imo. Being able to be sure you will do a certain minimum damage, then retreat into cover (this is before parry) is dominating in a way that the Skirmisher's mobility and double shot and the Reaper's scouting and claymore are not. Don't get me wrong, Reapers are op in their own right, and skirmishers are just so versatile, but nothing beats early game with a Templar imo.

Anyway, my point is that I often struggled in the early game in vanilla. I really don't feel like I've had many challenging missions this time around. I've made mistakes and a couple of things have happened beyond my control, but otherwise a single wounded soldier is the norm, with plenty of flawless sprinkled in there as well. I think I've taken a step back and learned the ai and its behaviour and mechanics that I never took the time to do before, and that's made all the difference. Barring bad luck (or bad tactics if you prefer), flanking and a crit, my soldiers are pretty safe early to beginning of mid-game. But they need to reach corporal or sergeant first, as rookie and squaddie don't have enough hp to survive even a single hit.

For the record, soldiers can get negative traits even if they aren't shaken. It appears that they need to be injured for it to happen, but I'm not sure. I know it can happen even with superficial wounds, so I don't know how it works exactly.

Unless you take tired soldiers on missions, or do a multi-part mission, it's very hard to drop soldiers into the shaken range anyway.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by coopasonic » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:54 am

I started a new WOTC campaign last night (ironman commander)... It was labeled #13 or #14 (yeah, I forget which, sue me). I think I may play too much XCOM2. Very much in the early stages, but I took down the warlock once and have all three hero classes. I just finished mag weapons and started inspired gauss weapons. Things are looking good so far.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Were you aware that in order to build shard guns (mag shotguns) you need a minimum of 2 engineers? I was not. In fact, I didn't know you needed any engineers to build anything you had researched.

Of course I've previously never researched mag weapons before getting a second engineer either.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by coopasonic » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:55 pm

I actually ran into the exact same thing for a the first time in this campaign. I have a covert op running for a second engineer right now so that should be solved shortly.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:11 pm

Gut punch.

I think I called down the thunder with my post discussing how easy things had been.

Guerilla mission, sitrep surgical.

I make my major ranger in EXO suit with frost grenade, my Reaper, and a sgt sharpshooter.

I move my reaper and 3 tiles from my starting position is a civilian hidden somehow behind a tree. Bam, everyone revealed.

First pod, crushed it. Made sure no one was within range of each other so viper wouldn't spit. Sectoid failed to mind control the Ranger who panicked flanked the viper and killed him. Killed the sectoid from elevation.

I reload everyone and go back into concealment with my reaper. Move 3 tiles and drop down off elevation right onto a civilian who was taking cover from the earlier fight. Boom, out of concealment. No more stealthy for anyone. I very seriously considered shooting the civilian in the head.

There's a turret on top of the train with 4 armor. I have no shredding that isn't explosives. I kill it, but it gets a shot off but doesn't hit.

Reinforcements arrive. Wtf is this shit? Early reinforcements on a timed surgical sitrep? Anyway, crush the 3 man pod, killing one with overwatch and beating the hell out of the other two. I think the trooper got a shot off. The stun lancer did not.

No problem. 2 Pods and turret down, on a "difficult" mission. Which means there are probably 2 more pods, as the reinforcements don't count.

Creep reaper forward, activate light MEC, trooper and shieldbearer. I move my ranger forward 2 tiles past my reaper because my rocket can't quite reach the trooper/purifier. Boom, activate last pod. 6 aliens are now active. Second pod is Muton, trooper and purifier. I use the rocket on the muton and purifier wounding and shredding them. Did I mention the armor dark event is active? So...everyone has armor.

I lose the Ranger next turn due to me mis-estimating the MEC range, who flanks and gets a crit. Trooper's random shot hits and puts him down, bleeding out.

2 vs 6 (about 4 wounded), all now shielded. I blow up the purifier but no one is near enough to take damage. The time is not right for the claymore. I really need it to count. Next turn MEC AGAIN flanks, because I suck, but no crit. Doesn't matter because 2 separate shots hit the Reaper in high cover and she's dead. She's my only Reaper. So reaper is dead, my highest ranking soldier is bleeding out, taking my EXO suit and frost grenade with him, and there are still 6 aliens, most of which are still shielded, vs. my sharpshooter. I drop the evac zone (something that I had forgotten existed, since I've never done it before) and bail.

Mission lost. No Engineer recruited. Stun lancer can move after melee attack dark event unthwarted. EXO suit gone. My only Major gone. Modified (Legacy DLC) shotgun gone. Experimental sword (Legacy DLC) gone. Frost grenade (Alien Hunter DLC) gone.

I had steeled myself for pressing on at the beginning of this campaign because I have a habit of starting over the moment things go south. And yet I'm going to start over. Losing the Major was bad enough, but I could probably have survived (emotionally/mentally) his loss. Hell, even the Reaper was low level and I barely used her. The gear though? Damn it.

I'm torn. Every instinct in me is telling me to start over. Not sure what I'll decide.

edit: I have since decided. I'm going to start over not because of any one thing. I managed to get past the loss of all these things individually, but I had planned on assaulting the Assassin within a month (it's May right now) and now I don't feel like I can do that without it being a crapshoot. So I can stand the loss of each and every one of these things individually, but having my strategic plans derailed and pushed back at least a month, if not more, is more than my poor morale can take.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:50 am

So, negative trait: Overly Aggressive - Has a chance to take a shot when put on overwatch.

Templar picked this up at some point and I forgot about it. No infirmary yet in any case, so nothing to be done except maybe not take her, but that's not an option and quite frankly this is not a scary negative for a Templar, who will almost never be on overwatch. Unless of course you're just starting a mission and scouting while in stealth. D'oh.

Templar takes a shot that I did not expect and all hell breaks loose. Light MEC immediately rocket's 3 of my guys, hurting them all but killing none. If it wasn't for the lost I probably would have lost 1/2 the team. Instead the Lost acted as bullet sponges and with some deft positioning and target choices, I made it out with everyone alive, the VIP rescued, and 2 Cpl sharpshooters added to my roster. The VIP is an engineer so now I have 2. It's a start.

This time around I have terrible combat intelligence on most of my guys, which isn't as big a deal as I think it is. It's not great, but I almost always have over 100 Xcom AP unspent at the end of the game, so I guess it's not the terrible situation I feel it is.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:28 am

So I'm playing with regular timers for this C/I game. I get a X4 mission for a network transmitter and I don't see a single transponder (killing these increases the counter/timer) after 2 full sprints towards the target, which leaves me with 1 turn to find a transponder.

Pretty frustrating. I manage to finish the mission, despite the warlock mind controlling my ranger and killing my grenadier with him. I also lost a sharpshooter earlier when I miscalculate and leave a priest with 1 hp, who then flanked the SS and killed him.

So I lost 2 sergeants in a game where sergeant is my highest rank. Worse, it wasn't a very difficult or even a difficult mission. It was a moderate one. Those transponder placements really screwed me, plus some weak play on my part.

I don't think my morale can take much more of these sorts of "successes". Out of 5 soldiers, 2 are dead, and 2 are wounded. There were only 5 aliens in total on the whole freakin' map! Even without the warlock I lost the sharpshooter, mostly because I had no choice but to take some crazy risks if I wanted to keep the timer from running down. I would LOVE to know how that could have been played differently. If my sharpshooter had made a 3 tile range pistol overwatch shot he would still be alive. But he didn't.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:12 am

I consistently tip my hat to your patience, and you remind me of why I keep avoiding Ironman. :hawk:
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Formix » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:34 am

I'm also impressed with your operational recall. I couldn't tell you immediately following a mission what just happened blow by blow, never mind translate it into a compelling narrative like you do.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by coopasonic » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:15 am

I remember if someone died, but that's about it. Oh, yesterday someone died. I think it was a grenadier... probably just a squaddie. *shrug* I'm out of town the next two evenings so the resistance will have to fend for itself.

Coincidentally on my latest mission, I lost my Reaper as well. I don't care much about individual losses or injuries, but losing the reaper was too much. I cheated to turn back time. Ironman doesn't define me! Like... literally.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:10 pm

Formix wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:34 am
I'm also impressed with your operational recall. I couldn't tell you immediately following a mission what just happened blow by blow, never mind translate it into a compelling narrative like you do.
Thanks for the kind words. I don't feel it's compelling when I write it although I want it to be, but I'm glad you find it enjoyable.

I'm not sure why I remember stuff like this. Occasionally I'll be writing out a retelling and lose an entire turn. You can tell because my writing goes from turn to turn detail then "stuff happened here, I don't know what" then more detail.

When I play PUBG I want to analyze and discuss the previous game in detail that most find off putting. I think it might just be in my nature to look at what happened and see if I can figure out why, and if I can improve from that knowledge. That's particularly true of PUBG, as the game doesn't provide you with a lot of feedback and sometimes you're just moving along and then you're dead. The early version of PUBG didn't have the Replay or Deathcam functionality. It was exceedingly frustrating to blink and suddenly be at the game lobby.

As far as Xcom, I don't know why I remember most of a mission. When I play Ironman I definitely play fewer missions per gaming session than I do when I can simply reload, but I wouldn't say I play those missions slower or with more thought.

From what I can tell Coop has the game pretty well in hand and I think watching him play would be a learning experience. While I think I'm above average, I don't think I'm exceptional. Knowing there are better players out there and then making catastrophic mistakes always makes me wonder what I did wrong and what someone else would have done in the same scenario.

In the past I relied on make-or-break die rolls. Big wins for good rolls, big losses for bad rolls. I do that a lot less now, which is why I think I'm a better player than I was when playing vanilla. I mostly kill pods on the turn I activate them, which is like 90% of the recipe for success.

A bad habit the game teaches you early on is that setting up an overwatch trap while in stealth then activating the pod on *your* turn is a good idea. It's not. It's a very, very bad idea. It's a deathtrap for you, not them. You might clip one or even 2 aliens, but you are guaranteeing the aliens get a turn. You don't want that. A good activation is when the pod dies before it can shoot. Putting everyone on overwatch then activating the pod (as opposed to letting them activate themselves by moving into range and spotting your guys) is a sure way to give the enemy a chance to shoot. I don't know how long it took me to learn that I was doing it wrong, and stopped. Way too long anyway.

I also tend to value damage now over anything else. Bringing the aliens closer to death is almost always better than other activities like moving into high cover and *not* bringing them closer to death. This seems to be the general consensus among players, but I think I value it too much. I know that the frost grenade and mimic beacon are both game changing but I tend to save both of them for when I *really* need them. I had a frost grenade on the catastrophe of a mission above and didn't use it. I want say that it was never the right choice given the tactical situation, but I can't be sure.

Ironman is a mindset, and I haven't made the switch to it yet. The bad missions hurt too much and they shouldn't. Things are going to happen (that's Xcom!) and you need to accept it. I value all my soldiers too much. Even the mediocre ones. That has to stop. The game can absolutely be won even when losing the occasional mission or soldier, but I feel like each failure is the end of times. It isn't.

I have yet to alt-f4 out of a mission to save it, but I would consider it if something out of my control happens, like a bug or something. Part of the reason I'm playing Ironman is to face those bad times without reloading, so reloading kind of defeats my purpose for playing Ironman. I suspect that I take my losses more personally than Coop, but I'm also more adamant about eating those losses when things go wrong.

I'd much rather start a new game than alt-f4, which is a weird sort of priority, I know. I laughed when Coop said he's on campaign 14 or something. I'm on 68 or something. Pretty sure that includes all my terrible, less skilled vanilla xcom C/I games, but still. It shows you how many times I've started a new game. That's a lot.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:33 am

Short version:

Retaliation mission with the Assassin's first appearance. I take my time, assuming I'll see the Assassin on turn 2 or 3. She never shows up. I squad sight a berserker which seems to trigger a change in behaviour from the aliens.

Normally they shoot 1, maybe 2 rebels a turn, but they get pissed off and start killing 3-4 a turn. It's nuts. I start pushing but the Assassin STILL hasn't shown up, so it's dangerous. There appear to be 6-8 active aliens still, and I've killed 2 pods already.

The first resistance group was wiped out because I assumed the Assassin was going to show early, so I took up a defensive position instead of supporting.

The moment I activate a pod on the second resistance group, the Assassin jumps in, hits, summons a priest then takes cover behind me. I'm now pincered between mutons, berserkers and the priest and assassin. I kill the priest and EXECUTE the Assassin in a single shot. I turn my attention back to the mutons/berserkers but I'm too late. By the time I finish them off, there are only 2 rebels left. Retaliation: FAILED. I lose access to that zone. 4 guys level up.

The main problem right now is that I'm *trying* to do the Alien Hunter mission and set them free, but I can never get enough guys healed/rested before yet another mission shows up. I've been ready for at least 3 weeks but something keeps getting in the way.

First failed mission, no one died, AI behaved unusually aggressively wiping out 3-4 rebels per turn for like 3-4 turns. Considering there were still 8+ aliens alive when they started butchering in earnest, I that's not normal. Oh well.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:12 pm

And the alien leaders are free. Only managed to get the Viper down to half, but I'll take it.

PSA: You can't parry a viper coil attack. Not sure about the tongue grab, but the coil is not parryable.

edit: Berserker leader showed up during an enemy VIP smash and grab PLUS I keep forgetting that skulljacking an officer spawns a codex, so that added to my troubles. Got the Berserker down to 1/2 then he bailed. I had to let the codex run loose while I dealt with the berserker. Codex missed a low cover shot against my Ranger which promptly blew up the car the ranger was hiding behind. In my defense I had put him there with no enemy contact and was unable to get him out of there as the Berserker showed up and started smashing stuff every time I moved. The ranger was on fire with 3 hp left but I double healed him and got him back to full.

Once the berserker was gone a flanked the codex down to 1 hp (i.e. no split) and then pistoled him to death with a sharpshooter. Snagged the VIP and ran for it. Bailed before reinforcements dropped.

So a timed VIP grab with an extra codex and the Berserker queen and just one injured (near death though, and he's my best Ranger). High fives all around.

edit: Mother effer. Another sabotage transmitter with no transponders (increase timer) in sight after a full sprint. There's a pod though, so that should eat at least a turn I can't afford. :/
edit2: Mother effer 2. Warlock just showed up and will be summoning like a mad man which will slow me down even more. This is turning out to be a mirror image of the "very bad time" where I lost a grenadier and sharpshooter. Same mission type, same map, new and improved warlock. DAMN IT.
edit3: Shouldn't have stood beside those explosive cannisters trooper. Remote started and killed the trooper, blowing a hole in the wall and giving LoS to 2 transponders. The rest is history. Warlock is brittle (extra damage up close), not melee immune and his adversary are Templars. Templar had a field day once I cleared the rest of the aliens out.

Flawless.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:40 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:12 pm
Flawless.
:mrgreen:

I'm glad its going well... ish. It sounds like you're able to handle the big guys with relative ease - or at least, lack of excessive discomfort.

Things like Alien Rulers and The Chosen would give me nightmares if I was doing Ironman.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by coopasonic » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:12 am

The Chosen aren't that bad. Assassin will murder people early game but after that you'll take some damage, but they don't really compare to the nearly infinite actions of the Alien Rulers.

I have two of the Chosen stronghold missions opened up... Psi Op is still my only Major. I finally built the training center and I am upgrading all my bonds and spent around 250 ability points. XCOM still has 45 or so for a few key later abilities on the top tier soldiers. I have one room left to open up in the Avenger. No idea what I am going to do with it. I don't *need* anything else. I guess a Lab wouldn't hurt. Freaking research times are killing me.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by dbt1949 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:56 pm

I want to know who the wise ass developer was who gave all my troops shorts and bare chests? And if bare chests why not the females?
Is this Xcom or Conan?
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:39 pm

dbt1949 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:56 pm
I want to know who the wise ass developer was who gave all my troops shorts and bare chests? And if bare chests why not the females?
Is this Xcom or Conan?
Hmmm. None of mine are bare chested or wearing shorts, although I know the shorts exist. You can always change what their wearing in the customization option. I've had to do it a few times. hot pink seems to be far too popular among custom soldiers and the random soldier generator. I'm fine with hot pink, just not 4 of my 20 soldiers wearing it. I've had to change some head gear as well. Mostly I just use what they spawn with, but some get under my skin a little.

One of the armor styles is a chest plate that covers the chest but leaves the abdomen bare, so the arms and stomach are exposed. Not a fan of that look.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:51 pm

Paingod wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:40 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:12 pm
Flawless.
:mrgreen:

I'm glad its going well... ish. It sounds like you're able to handle the big guys with relative ease - or at least, lack of excessive discomfort.

Things like Alien Rulers and The Chosen would give me nightmares if I was doing Ironman.
They give me nightmares too. I'm fairly sure the Berserker Queen has the same chance to hit that berserkers do, which is pretty low if I remember correctly. Maybe as low as 50%. She missed a *lot* in any case, which helped as you can imagine.

You can see my stress levels spike during my edits and swearing. I was almost defeated before the mission had really even gotten underway, as my morale took a major hit. Chasing the timer got 2 of my guys killed last time, and it looked like I was about to do it all over again.

As Coop says, the Assassin is the toughest of the 3 Chosen, but early on she only does about 4 damage so as not to kill a full health soldier outright (you tend to have 5-8 hp for the first few ranks before armor). If you can finish her off before she attacks again, it's not the end of the world, usually. If the soldier is already injured that's different. Also if she can summon soldiers (a skill she learns very early on) she tends to do that for a turn after attacking, so you can get some leeway there.

The key is not to fight her when you have other pods active. Normally she beelines straight to you, which is why I spent time setting up a trap for her rather than killing the terror aliens. Why she didn't come for me I'm not sure, but it messed up that mission, so good for her I guess.

The Archon King is the scariest Alien Leader I think. When he uses his "blazing Pistons" attack you can only save one of the soldiers targeted, meaning that 1 or more soldiers are going to take damage. He also has high defense which makes him much harder to hit than the other 2. Unlike the Chosen I don't think they get any tougher, so if they choose to run it's not the end of the world since you might rank up or tech up before you see them again, making it easier the later you fight them. Of course killing them as early as possible provides the greatest rewards, so I'm trying to kill them before I've moved to plasma and powered armor. I'd consider using conventional weapons on them in another game, but they have a little armor and a 3-5 damage rifle up against 2 armor is going to suck. Obviously grenades would be involved and a Grenadier wouldn't hurt either. My main concern about going after the Alien Leaders or the Chosen with conventional weapons is that your soldiers are likely to have very few hp too, which means some are probably going to die, since it's almost impossible to not take a few hits even when things go perfectly.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by NickAragua » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:54 pm

The trick with the alien rulers is to use the alien hunter equipment, as it tends to stun them. Also, anything that's a "free action" is super useful. Grappling hooks, the sniper's Lightning Hands skill, the axe throw. If you know or think there's going to be a ruler on a mission, grab the frost grenade and stick it onto your heavy so you get two shots with it.

Somebody here, as I recall, told me to use damage-over-time effects on those guys, because they pop every time they get a turn. So you set a ruler on fire, he'll be taking a lot of damage pretty rapidly. Also, flashbangs and such to reduce their hit rate even more.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:30 pm

NickAragua wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:54 pm
The trick with the alien rulers is to use the alien hunter equipment, as it tends to stun them. Also, anything that's a "free action" is super useful. Grappling hooks, the sniper's Lightning Hands skill, the axe throw. If you know or think there's going to be a ruler on a mission, grab the frost grenade and stick it onto your heavy so you get two shots with it.

Somebody here, as I recall, told me to use damage-over-time effects on those guys, because they pop every time they get a turn. So you set a ruler on fire, he'll be taking a lot of damage pretty rapidly. Also, flashbangs and such to reduce their hit rate even more.
+1 to all of it, although I wasn't aware the Alien Hunter weapons could stun them, except for the bolt caster which has stun in its description.

I carry the frost grenade on every mission, but rarely use it.

As you point out, free actions don't trigger Leader actions.

The only Alien Hunter weapon that I tech up is the pistol, as gunslingers are very useful, especially if you're carrying specialized ammo, but even without that they are very good. They are the answer to missions with Lost on them, for example.

I have only used flash bangs for stopping early game mind controls from sectoids. I basically stopped carrying them as I expected most higher level aliens to be immune, although I don't know why I thought that. Philosophically you're supposed to kill things before they shoot at you so I've kind of forgotten about the flash bang. It makes perfect sense to use them on the Leaders as you can't kill those in 1 turn, although it seems rare (haven't fought them enough to know for sure) that the Viper or Archon actually shoot at you. They tend to prioritize movement and their special abilities. The Berserker Queen doesn't have any special abilities that I can tell. Well, she hulk smashes the ground, so I guess that counts.

Anyway, everything you said is great advice.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by dbt1949 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:36 pm

I don't know the name of that next in command guy that gives me the missions and such but I would like to shut him up.Been there since XCOM1 and he won't shut up.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:48 pm

Bradford.

I have exactly zero attachment to him but he's obviously important to the fan base because it's clear that he is the focus of many lines of dialogue and he's actual squad leader on the Alien Hunter start mission (which helps get a low rank squad through it, if you're willing to release the Leaders early).

He's also the focus of the Legacy free DLC, as most (all?) of the chained missions/campaigns are told by Bradford as recollections from the Xcom 1 era.

I couldn't care less. Hell, there is controversy (how serious? I don't know) over his lack of Xcom sweater from the original game.

I find the whole thing weird and distracting, but considering the game has actually lost a lot of it's personality over the years (the first version had tie-ins with common alien folklore at least. Mutilated cows, for example) I don't blame them for trying to get some players to identify with parts of the game on an emotional level. A well loved NPC makes perfect sense in that context.

Anyway, there is way too much unskippable dialogue in the game, especially in the DLCs. What usually happens is that I have a bad turn and I'm desperately wanting to rectify the situation but the Chosen just yammer and yammer away. Given that the Chosen are often taunting you, annoying me by keeping me from taking control of my soldiers while they yammer is in-line with that idea. Eventually though, you've heard the taunts a billion times, at which point not being able to at least start moving your soldiers while they yammer is pretty cruel to the player.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:52 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:48 pm
Eventually though, you've heard the taunts a billion times, at which point not being able to at least start moving your soldiers while they yammer is pretty cruel to the player.
This is such a common thing in games, and I greatly prefer it to be either optional or completely noninvasive - like you can move while it happens instead of being locked in place.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by NickAragua » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:04 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:48 pm
Hell, there is controversy (how serious? I don't know) over his lack of Xcom sweater from the original game.
Did you finish the most recent DLC? It honestly made me laugh out loud.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:10 pm

NickAragua wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:04 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:48 pm
Hell, there is controversy (how serious? I don't know) over his lack of Xcom sweater from the original game.
Did you finish the most recent DLC? It honestly made me laugh out loud.
Agreed! :mrgreen:

I was all "Oh yeah... That's right. There it... Wait. WHAT?!"
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:42 pm

NickAragua wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:04 am
Did you finish the most recent DLC? It honestly made me laugh out loud.
That's the only reason I know there was an issue.

I have some tough decisions to make. Well, more like I need to decide to enter the breech. If I'm not going to wait to do the Chosen and/or SLG DLC with end game tech, I need to get moving. Which means I need to decide to take on what could be difficult missions, knowing that I might lose some soldiers, or heaven forbid, lose the Chosen mission. I don't know what happens if you fail to kill a Chosen, but the game says you only get 1 shot at it, so...

I'm more worried about the SLG 3 part mission, but both the Chosen and the SLG mission are designed to be challenging. I like my soldiers. I don't want them to die. Leaving the Chosen and/or SLG til the end game kind of defeats the purpose of having them exist in the first place, particularly the rewards.

Poop or get off the pot as it were.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:49 pm

Watched a video where a muton threw a grenade and it "missed" the ranger (no untouchable active) with large "MISSED" text as part of the effect.

Wtf is that? I'm struggling to find the answer on the 'net. Anyone have any ideas?

edit: Net says it's a bug, except there are multiple posts about it and the game handles it with the "MISSED" text, so if it's a bug, it seems to be contained in that the game understands what it means for a grenade to not do damage.

I read an account where someone fused a grenade on a live Muton who took no damage from the explosion. Weird.

I also read that MEC rockets have a "to hit chance" meaning they can do no damage sometimes. Don't think I've seen this one yet.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:03 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:49 pm
I also read that MEC rockets have a "to hit chance" meaning they can do no damage sometimes. Don't think I've seen this one yet.
Hundreds of hours of play, and I've never seen those rockets do anything other than cut my soldiers in half.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by NickAragua » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:59 am

In XCOM Enemy Unknown, the heavy's rockets had a 90% chance to hit, which was frustrating as all hell when they did miss.

But I've never seen a limited-use explosive miss in XCOM 2. Unless I butterfinger the throw myself.

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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Blackhawk » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:02 am

This thread makes me want to give XCOM 2 another chance. I played EU/EW multiple times, but 2 just annoyed the crap out of me the first time I tried it due to 'gotchas.' I may need to go back and try again.
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