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Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

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Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:26 pm

Note: I didn't find any specific thread on this game, so I've started one due to its pending release. My apologies in advance if I missed the thread, I'm old and don't spell so well :roll:

I just got an email titled "It's Time to Rise from the Ashes". Assuming this doesn't have anything to do with an over-cooked Thanksgiving dinner, it can only mean that Phoenix Point is due for release on December 3rd. I'm aware it is releasing on the Epic Games site and the game's site, if somewhere else please post this info.

So, for the uninitiated (like me), here's some info.
Phoenix Point

Phoenix Point puts players in the midst of a desperate fight to take back the Earth from a mutating, alien menace. Featuring turn-based tactical combat on procedurally generated maps, and resource management on a global scale, Phoenix Point offers endless replayability and a brutal challenge.

Following a global environmental disaster, the Pandoravirus appeared and began reshaping creatures, including humans, into hideous mutants. Unable to stop the progress of the virus, much of human civilization was wiped out -- only small enclaves remain, separated by their principles and the vast landscape. The Phoenix Project, an ancient failsafe against global catastrophe is the only hope to unite mankind and take back the planet.

Lead the Phoenix Project from its base at Phoenix Point. Research and develop new technologies and techniques, plan operations, build alliances to unite the planet-- or simply destroy your rivals. It's up to you to save the planet and rebuild civilization, but there may be much more to the alien threat than meets the eye.
  • Mutating Alien Menace: Face down an ever-changing alien threat that adapts to your tactics and offers no respite even as your team becomes more powerful and technologically advanced.
  • Uncover the Secrets of the Pandoravirus: Phoenix Point features a complex narrative, with multiple endings that the player can only uncover via multiple playthroughs. Discover a secret history, as you learn about the origins of the mutants, the Pandoravirus, and Phoenix Point itself through exploration, diplomacy, and research.
  • Manage Diplomatic Relations: The Phoenix Project is not the only organization trying to reclaim the Earth. The militaristic New Jericho, the mystical Disciples of Anu, and the technophiles of Synedrion all offer unique rewards for co-operation and threats for opposition. It is up to you to decide how, or even if, to deal with them.
  • Take Aim on the Battlefield: In addition to equipping and commanding units, Phoenix Point lets you take direct control of your soldier's shots in combat, with a unique free-aiming system. Target enemy weakspots, weapons, or valuables, or just go for center mass.
  • Next-Gen Tech with Classic Pedigree: Phoenix Point was designed by Julian Gollop, the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s. Keeping the core ethos of X-COM while updating the visuals, technology, and systems to modern standards has made Phoenix Point best-in-class.
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So, who's in on this? Any backers who can talk about the game?
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by LordMortis » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:53 pm

I think this is the thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92797

I was following it and debated EA but their deliverables were a bit vague and backing was expensive at the time, while I had also kept vowing not to do EA games anymore. They later switched the model to be EPIC exclusive and I quit following the game entirely then. Has that changed?

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:57 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:53 pm
I was following it and debated EA but their deliverables were a bit vague and backing was expensive at the time, while I had also kept vowing not to do EA games anymore. They later switched the model to be EPIC exclusive and I quit following the game entirely then. Has that changed?
I think it is still an Epic Games exclusive, but since I've bought a game there and the world didn't end I will consider getting PP through them. I do agree about avoiding Early Access.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by coopasonic » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:19 pm

It is supposed to also show up on xbox game pass and hopefully that means gamepass for PC as well, but I haven't seen anything official. I have liked what I've seen in some videos from the latest backer build and the Phoenix point for xcom players series that they have done.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Freyland » Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:43 am

Game site purchase gives you an Epic key.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by MonkeyFinger » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:03 am

I backed this on Fig in April of 2017... sheesh.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Sepiche » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:40 pm

I didn't back it early, but I pre-ordered and will play it once it's out. It sounds like it's been functionally complete for awhile and they've just been polishing it, so I have high hopes it will be a fresh update of XCom, but Jake and the Firaxis team really set them a high bar to clear.

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:21 am

I've been watching this video dated October 25, 2019:



As Sepiche mentioned, "Jake and the Firaxis team really set them a high bar to clear", but I'm liking what I've been seeing in the video. I'm just hoping that the level of polish of the game upon release won't be a disappointment compared to XCOM 2. And it might seem weird, but I'm a bit concerned about the lower price point on the Epic store of the standard edition. If this is the new XCOM type game to have, wouldn't it seem like they would be asking more for it? Or does the price represent a smaller amount of content in the base game than XCOM 2, especially since they already have five DLC planned?
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:41 pm

A couple of videos, the launch trailer and a Let's Play from the developers covering the tactical tutorial, both released yesterday:



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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:19 pm

And another video released today from the developers, Let's Play Phoenix Point - Part 2 - Geoscape Tutorial



Also, I came across this video, released back on October 1st from the developers, Phoenix Point for XCOM Fans - Inventory



And finally, released at the beginning of November, also from the developers, Phoenix Point for XCOM Fans - Exploration

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:11 pm

It's my turn to take a bullet for the group, so I've pre-ordered the game.
"A plan is a list of things that go wrong. I like to keep my lists short. Just be ready." - Rico Rodriguez

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Jaddison » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:27 am

I have my backer key and I think I also have an extra key.....at least I don't think I need two keys. It is almost time for the great OO Christmas event right?

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by stimpy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:32 am

Jaddison wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:27 am
I have my backer key and I think I also have an extra key.....at least I don't think I need two keys. It is almost time for the great OO Christmas event right?
How is that gonna work with Epic exclusive games? Is there a way to wishlist this?
(Obviously I haven't installed or bought anything from there yet).
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by coopasonic » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:17 am

Last I knew Epic didn't even have wishlist functionality. :P

I'm really hoping Phoenix Point does show up on gamepass for PC tomorrow, but I am not holding my breath. If it doesn't I guess Epic is getting my business. I started a new XCOM2:WOTC campaign yesterday as I wanted to warm up for some tactical combat.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by coopasonic » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:44 pm

From the official FAQ:
The PC version will also be releasing on Microsoft's Game Pass in December 2019 with the Xbox One version to follow in Q1 2020.
Hopefully that means I am playing tomorrow.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by TheMix » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:13 pm

Crap. Kingdom Come: Deliverance still feels a long way from being over. Maybe if I push it this week. They probably won't miss me at work...
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by MonkeyFinger » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:17 am

Copied from Blues:

Phoenix Point is just a day away from launch (that’s Tuesday, December 3rd at 11am PT / 7pm GMT for those detail-oriented types among you). We’re all really excited for you to start playing the game we have been working on passionately for the past three years.

Here are a few things you need to know:
•Emails containing your Phoenix Point keys for the Epic store were sent on Friday, November 29th from our contact@snapshotgames.com email, and will be sent again, today, Monday, December 2nd, to those who didn’t open their Friday emails. If you can’t find the email with your key, please double check your spam, junk and promotion folders before contacting us. 95% of our emails regarding missing keys are found in these folders; checking there first saves you (and us) time.
•The Epic Store keys we send you are package keys. That means they unlock all of your entitlements including any DLCs or digital items included in your tier with a single key. If you’re one of the people who qualify for a free season pass, your key will unlock that too. No need for multiple key redemptions.
•If you purchased more than one copy of Phoenix Point, each key should be labeled by edition in the email you received.
•If you have purchased the season pass separately, you will need to redeem the game key first, then the season pass key you received when you purchased that.
•Sometimes, you may have to close and restart the Epic Games Store launcher for newly purchased items to appear in your library.
•There are no preloads on the Epic Games Store, so everything you redeem will show as “unavailable” until 11 AM Pacific Time on December 3, 2019.
•The full game is independent of the Backer Build. It will not overwrite the Backer Build in your Epic Games account and does not require any files from it. You can safely uninstall the Backer Build at any time without affecting your full game installation. Eventually, we will remove all Backer Builds from user libraries.
•Purchases made directly via the Epic Games Store are added to your account automatically and do not require a key.
-mf

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Jaddison » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:28 pm

I think I do have two keys - deluxe edition keys. I have everything through DLC 5 sitting in my Epic library so the second key isn't a season pass.

So anyone have any great ideas how i can best give this key to someone? I don't want to auction it or anything like that.

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by stimpy » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:37 pm

Jaddison wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:28 pm
I think I do have two keys - deluxe edition keys. I have everything through DLC 5 sitting in my Epic library so the second key isn't a season pass.

So anyone have any great ideas how i can best give this key to someone? I don't want to auction it or anything like that.
First come first served?
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Jaddison » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:56 pm

Not looking for anything other than for someone to enjoy the game.

Apparently my main hobby is buying games not playing them 8-)

If anyone else is interested or has a unique way for me to give this away please speak up. Looking to give this away today so that it can be enjoyed at launch.

Hell i may even install it and play today.

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by coopasonic » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:09 pm

I'm interested, but I will be playing on gamepass... eventually.

Apparently it is still awaiting certification from Microsoft. It should be within a week.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:42 pm

The game can be downloaded right now from Epic, just restart your client to enable the download.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Freyland » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:12 pm

I'm interested in vying for the key.


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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:28 pm

How do I take screenshots in Epic? Or should I just use the Win10 game bar thingee, which I don't really know how to use? Neverrmind, I figured out the Gamebar controls.

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:56 pm

A number of articles from Rock, Paper, Shotgun for those who might want some assistance:

Phoenix Point guide - 20 tips for new players and XCOM veterans alike

Phoenix Point Free Aim and Part Damage guide - how to use the Free Aiming system for more precise shots

How to capture enemies in Phoenix Point - a guide to capturing live Pandorans for research

How to recruit new soldiers in Phoenix Point - a guide to expanding your army

Phoenix Point Factions & Diplomacy guide - Missions, Raids, Trade, and War explained

And the RPS review, Wot I Think: Phoenix Point

I'm about three hours in and I'm enjoying it so far. There were two combat missions that provided tutorial guidance, after those there are info screens whenever you first go to a new menu screen in the base or out on a mission. There's a fairly extensive Phoenixopedia as well. I've done one other combat mission and am starting a new one. The combat maps feel a bit smaller than XCOM 2, but that might be because it's early on.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Baroquen » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:17 pm

Unless reviews are rough, I'm almost certainly getting this. But I can probably wait until the "honeymoon" period passes and any actual game gripes emerge. (But maybe not and I buy it 10 minutes from now. Even money).

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by coopasonic » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:01 pm

Reviews are kind of rough. Backers are sounding bitter.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:10 pm

I've played maybe four hours now and am still enjoying it. Tactical combat is somewhat XCOM 2, but with a couple of significant differences. One is the aiming and shooting. This is not a system where when the modifiers are added up you get a percentage to hit. Instead, either you let the game aim towards the center of mass or you can actually free aim like below:
Image
In this example there is a 100% chance your shot will fall within the outer circle and a 50% chance it will fall within the inner circle. So you can pick your shots. And hitting arms or legs or heads or even weapons have different effects. It really makes combat more detailed. The game tracks each projectile and you can destroy the environment.

The other difference is the moving and firing. You basically get four impulses but, and it's very important, each pulse is not monolithic in movement. When you move, it is possible to move less than the full distance that would use up an impulse. This gives you a fractional impulse which can still move you some distance. And that is important because firing does not end a turn. You could move one impulse's worth of squares to move out of cover, fire your assault weapon (which uses two impulses) then use the last impulse to move back into cover. It's pretty cool and takes some getting used to. Or, say if you have a sniper rifle which uses three impulses when it fires, you could duck out of cover one square, using part of an impulse, fire, then use the remaining fractional impulse to move back into cover.

On the strategic level, the game is very different. You will end up having multiple bases and you will be shifting soldiers and aircraft and whatnot between them. Supplies are shared between all bases as a simplification.

And besides the bad guys being generated by the Pandoravirus, there are three factions who you can cozy up to, or raid for supplies, or support one against the other, and so forth. You can be forced to make decisions that might piss off one faction just to please another, or you can try to be friends with all. I'm just scratching the surface on this.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:10 am

coopasonic wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:01 pm
Reviews are kind of rough. Backers are sounding bitter.
I've got in about seven hours now. No bugs I can find, aside from the ones my soldiers are shooting :D. I'm wondering if some of the reviews are unhappy because they had the preconceived notion that PP is supposed to be XCOM 3, in the same way that a lot of folks are unhappy with Ghost Recon Breakpoint because they expected a new GR Wildlands.

This is from the Rock Paper Shotgun review:
Phoenix Point straight-up reverses a lot of that design process, unpicking XCOM’s neat threads and leaving a pile of knotted fibres on the floor. Soldiers no longer have two moves, but an allotted pool of action points that deteriorates by fractions with every shot, saunter, or fiddle in their inventory. Something as simple as their speed can be affected by gaining stat upgrades, or becoming over-encumbered, or being shot in the leg, or performing a dash using a different pool of points, or one of the other factors that slipped straight over the lip of my brain into the overflow tray.
I've got seven hours in and the whole movement thing seems pretty straightforward to me. Firaxis's XCOM had a pretty simple movement point system, but that doesn't mean it's the only approach. You've just got to stop thinking XCOM and look at PP with fresh eyes. The complexity of the PP movement system adds a lot of variety and options to the tactical gameplay. For instance, his comment about the dash ability. It doesn't use some special pool of points, it uses up some of the soldiers Willpower which is already something you have to think about.

To me the telling phrase in the quoted section of the review is "Phoenix Point straight-up reverses a lot of that design process". It doesn't reverse the design process, it took a fresh approach. That word reverses prejudices the review. In my opinion anyhow.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by IceBear » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:46 am

Yeah, I'm enjoying it too. I was a backer from Day1 and am happy with what I received. Then again I managed to keep my expectations down...I wasn't expecting XCOM3, just a solid tactical game without the "polish" of XCOM. That's not to mean it's buggy - I haven't hit any bugs - it just doesn't have videos for cut scenes for example, and it's just feels like it's missing something. If XCOM is A+ this is A-. Still enjoying it though as it's a different take

DISCLAIMER: I have only 3 or 4 hours into it right now so my view can change

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by MonkeyFinger » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:02 am

We got completely knocked off the grid for most of yesterday by a Comcast outage, so this never downloaded for me. When things finally came back online late last night, I got PP downloaded and started the tutorial mission. Worked my way through it using my 360 controller which worked "fine" up until I had to get on the vehicle for the exfil and couldn't manage it. Big giant arrow bobbing over the disabled option in the middle of that bar and no way that I could find to get it to work... until I grabbed the mouse and clicked on it. Logged out and hit the sack. :?

I'll start over in the near future and stick with M/KB and see how that goes.
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by NickAragua » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:06 am

I backed it way back when, so I bit the bullet, confirmed my personal info for the Chinese govt (likely they already had it anyway), and installed the epic client.

I think having played the Firaxis X-Coms really did me a disservice on this one. It *looks* like them, but the mechanisms are quite different. It took me a while to get used to the ability to "shoot and scoot" (and I'm still not used to it, really), but that's absolutely necessary to do, because even in "full cover" you'll still take damage from crab dudes shooting machine guns (and let's not even get started on the humans).

On the plus side, I love inflicting bleeding wounds on bad guys, then just hiding. Their pathfinding isn't too hot, so if you're out of line-of-sight (especially on high ground), they'll mill around while bleeding to death. If you're not under time pressure and don't have anything to protect, that's a perfectly reasonable and safe way of taking them out.

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Sepiche » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:19 pm

I'm liking the mechanic changes for the most part. Allows for more real world tactics, but still feels like XCom. Only thing that annoys me so far is there doesn't seem to be any indication at all of how difficult a shot is, or am I missing something?

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by NickAragua » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:08 pm

That's actually a major departure from X-Com. There's a RockPaperShotgun article that explained it, but basically, the concentric circles on the aim reticle are the key. The outer circle? 100% of all of your shots will land within that. The inner circle? 50% (or something like that). There's no "random miss percentage" (and thus, no random bullshit 95% odds shot at point blank range and the guy shoots his foot off). It threw me for a loop at first, but I far prefer it to the "roll a die" mechanic. That's best left for tabletop.

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:09 pm

Sepiche wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:19 pm
Only thing that annoys me so far is there doesn't seem to be any indication at all of how difficult a shot is, or am I missing something?
Take a look in the image below. That red and pink bar at the top shows probable results of your shot. A solid red bar means you aren't going to cause any damage, while the more pink, going to white, shows that you are causing more damage. Best is a full white bar. In the example, the target has 140 hit points and you are likely to take out 2/3rds of that with your shot which has a damage rating of 94. Understand that this top bar is for the overall likelihood of the shot, with the bullet 100% likely to fall in the outside circle and 50% likely to fall in the inner circle.

The colored bar in the center shows the likelihood of striking the enemy's Firebird SR sniper rifle and the damage you would cause. It is not only possible but good tactics to target an enemy's weapon.

I think this is something many of the reviewers misunderstand. This is a shooting game, but not like the two Firaxis XCOMs which were basically taking basic probabilities, adding modifiers then rolling dice. Here you aim at a target and depending on range, weapon, skill level and other factors, you can see the probability of causing damage based upon those factors using a circular error of probability (CEP) system. And if there is something partially blocking the shot, you can see that too. And with this system you'll see why using an assault rifle that shoots six bullets might be more useful than a sniper shot, since each bullet is calculated separately.

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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:33 pm

I just stole my first aircraft :roll:. Tough mission, I lost two of my six soldiers and they are NOT easy to replace.
"A plan is a list of things that go wrong. I like to keep my lists short. Just be ready." - Rico Rodriguez

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NickAragua
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by NickAragua » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:51 pm

Even though the damn thing takes three spaces on the plane, I'm totally going to be bringing a tank along for missions. Those missiles really do a number on the bad guys, and provide some much-needed long-range artillery support.

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jztemple2
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:55 pm

NickAragua wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:51 pm
Even though the damn thing takes three spaces on the plane, I'm totally going to be bringing a tank along for missions. Those missiles really do a number on the bad guys, and provide some much-needed long-range artillery support.
There are a couple of things to remember about the Scarab. One, there are a finite number of missiles available and no reloads till you return to the geoscape. And because of the arc of the Scarab's missiles, you can't use them very well in enclosed spaces, like caves.
"A plan is a list of things that go wrong. I like to keep my lists short. Just be ready." - Rico Rodriguez

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Sepiche
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by Sepiche » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:44 pm

jztemple2 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:09 pm
Take a look in the image below.
Thanks, I had a feeling I just wasn't seeing it.

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jztemple2
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Re: Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

Post by jztemple2 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:38 am

I destroyed my first Pandoran nest. I'm not sure of the effects, but I'm assuming it is a Good Thing. It was not an easy mission. The nest was a maze and there were a number of enemy spawn points. I had six soldiers which was good since I had to cover behind me as well as ahead, plus the sides too :shock:

Things are hopping on the Diplomacy Screen (click to enlarge). I've reached a point with two of the factions, the Disciples of Anu and Synedrion, where to get a further positive rating with them I have to do a mission each for them. Sort of showing that I'm serious. New Jericho would be more pissed at me if I hadn't cleaned out that nest.
Image
"A plan is a list of things that go wrong. I like to keep my lists short. Just be ready." - Rico Rodriguez

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