Grimoire

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:29 pm

If this thread doesn't take a different turn, I'm going to use the last charge in my Wand of Derek Smart Summoning.

Harkonis · Post by **Harkonis** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:25 pm

hepcat wrote:
Skeptic wrote: I like it here as well. Different forums with different vibes but that does not make either one a "cesspool".
No, but an entire thread devoted to one poster's excited discovery of midget porn (complete with extensive images) doesn't exactly help your case.

links?

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:21 pm

I'm quite aware of what ad hominem means, Skeptic. I was trying to be coy, because the term did not fit. I wasn't making a logical argument in a debate (i.e. something you could apply the ad hominem fallacy). I was making an opinion judgement on the quality of a non-material entity. So the term hardly applies, I wasn't arguing logic, I was stating my feelings.

Don't bait regarding the morality of porn. I'm not hung up on it at all. But there is such a thing as decorum, even on the internet. And 4Chan is hardly an example of a place having decorum. Seriously, I'm pretty liberal, but one could describe 4Chan as being libertine!

Point is - I find the method of discussion at the RPGCodex not to my liking and somewhat distasteful, due to the rather no-holds-barred style of banter. You admitted as much in the beginning. My cesspool is your castle. Different strokes for different folks. Case closed.

But since you argued so hard as to the quality of the people on the forum, I'll have my mother join up right away and ask for tips on how to play Farmville. I've got a friend who has a 12 year old who loves World of Warcraft, I'll have him join RPGCodex too, to get some advice on powerleveling. Since you state how helpful and kind the people over there are, I'm sure they'll be just fine, right?

Hrdina · Post by **Hrdina** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:54 pm

Smoove_B wrote:If this thread doesn't take a different turn, I'm going to use the last charge in my Wand of Derek Smart Summoning.

Please, for the love of all that is good, do not combine Cleve & Derek in one thread.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:59 pm

Hrdina wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:If this thread doesn't take a different turn, I'm going to use the last charge in my Wand of Derek Smart Summoning.

Please, for the love of all that is good, do not combine Cleve & Derek in one thread.

It's like a TROLL EVENT HORIZON!

BTW, calling Derek Smart a troll is an example of ad hominem.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:13 am

baelthazar wrote:BTW, calling Derek Smart a troll is an example of ad hominem.

Great. Nice going guys. That was the third mention on this page.

Take cover.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:37 am

Skeptic wrote:
tgb wrote:bael -

Why are you attempting to have a reasonable discussion with someone who's response to a comment (that wasn't even directed toward him specifically) is "You momma"?
What does it matter if he directed the insult at me by name or whether he just referred to all of us as a whole as being part of a "cesspool"? Also, your sense of humor is broken. I think Bael kind of got the joke as evidenced by his response after I said that but you seem to think I was seriously offering "your mom..." as a retort to the insult.

Holy crap kids...pull your heads out of your asses for a second and think before you post.

Yeah... you know, I'm not part of this discussion, but I felt like I have an obligation to tell you that your idea of what the word "humor" means is quite off base. It reminds me of those people who get arrested for making threats of terrorism (like leaning over the check-in counter at an airport, grinning and whispering "I've got a bomb" to the person sitting there), and when the handcuffs are slapped on them they act shocked and say "but it was only a joke!". Not the same scale as this of course, but that's the whole idea of examples meant to illustrate a point.

Hrdina · Post by **Hrdina** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:03 am

baelthazar wrote:
Hrdina wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:If this thread doesn't take a different turn, I'm going to use the last charge in my Wand of Derek Smart Summoning.

Please, for the love of all that is good, do not combine Cleve & Derek in one thread.
It's like a TROLL EVENT HORIZON!

BTW, calling Derek Smart a troll is an example of ad hominem.

Yeah, trolls get pretty angry when you do that.

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:26 am

hepcat wrote:
Skeptic wrote: I like it here as well. Different forums with different vibes but that does not make either one a "cesspool".
No, but an entire thread devoted to one poster's excited discovery of midget porn (complete with extensive images) doesn't exactly help your case.

No idea what you are talking about here...?

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:30 am

TiLT wrote:
Skeptic wrote:
tgb wrote:bael -

Why are you attempting to have a reasonable discussion with someone who's response to a comment (that wasn't even directed toward him specifically) is "You momma"?
What does it matter if he directed the insult at me by name or whether he just referred to all of us as a whole as being part of a "cesspool"? Also, your sense of humor is broken. I think Bael kind of got the joke as evidenced by his response after I said that but you seem to think I was seriously offering "your mom..." as a retort to the insult.

Holy crap kids...pull your heads out of your asses for a second and think before you post.
Yeah... you know, I'm not part of this discussion, but I felt like I have an obligation to tell you that your idea of what the word "humor" means is quite off base. It reminds me of those people who get arrested for making threats of terrorism (like leaning over the check-in counter at an airport, grinning and whispering "I've got a bomb" to the person sitting there), and when the handcuffs are slapped on them they act shocked and say "but it was only a joke!". Not the same scale as this of course, but that's the whole idea of examples meant to illustrate a point.

To call this a false analogy(another fallacy. look it up) would be generous. It may be the worst analogy ever offered. Qualifying it with "It reminds me of..." does not change this. If you seriously think that someone engaging in what could be called 'shock humor' at an INTERNET FORUM is like someone walking up to a check in counter at an airport and saying they have a bomb(post 9-11 no less) then you have some issues guy.

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:55 am

baelthazar wrote:I'm quite aware of what ad hominem means, Skeptic. I was trying to be coy, because the term did not fit. I wasn't making a logical argument in a debate (i.e. something you could apply the ad hominem fallacy). I was making an opinion judgement on the quality of a non-material entity. So the term hardly applies, I wasn't arguing logic, I was stating my feelings.

?!

I have re-read the above 3 times now and still can barely make sense of it. But let's move on....

Don't bait regarding the morality of porn. I'm not hung up on it at all.

YOU were the one who attempted to justify your "cesspool" comment by asking me(paraphrasing here) 'Seriously Skeptic? have you seen the porn and such there?'. That was YOUR position guy. I did not straw man you at all.

But there is such a thing as decorum, even on the internet. And 4Chan is hardly an example of a place having decorum.

Speaking of the straw man...
WTF does whether or not 4chan has "decorum" have to do with anything being discussed here?! Who was arguing that 4chan had decorum?!

Seriously, I'm pretty liberal, but one could describe 4Chan as being libertine!

No doubt but I fail to see the relevance of whether or not one could describe 4chan as "libertine" or any other label.

Point is - I find the method of discussion at the RPGCodex not to my liking and somewhat distasteful, due to the rather no-holds-barred style of banter. You admitted as much in the beginning. My cesspool is your castle. Different strokes for different folks. Case closed.

AGAIN, that is fine and I seriously doubt ANYONE has a problem with that. Why you keep repeating it is beyond me?!

But since you argued so hard as to the quality of the people on the forum, I'll have my mother join up right away and ask for tips on how to play Farmville.

LOL! First you straw man me(AGAIN! When did I argue so hard the quality of ANYONE at ANY internet forum?!) and then you decide to set your "mom" up to ask questions about FARMVILLE at a forum you KNOW good and well will rightly cause the posters there to suspect trolling is at hand and likely mock the 'new poster'. That is an awful; lot like saying "Fine. I will send my flaming queer boyfriend, wearing his "Jocks suck the best ****" t-shirt into an NFL locker room to see how Liberal and accepting football players are."(when no one was arguing that football players were largely Liberal or accepting to begin with).

If I were recommending a forum for a first time poster to ask about "Farmville" I would not suggest RPG Codex anymore than I would suggest they go to 4chan or or a Daily Show fan forum. That does not make either of those forums "cesspools" though.

You starting to see what I am saying yet guy? Because this is getting a little tiresome now...

I've got a friend who has a 12 year old who loves World of Warcraft, I'll have him join RPGCodex too, to get some advice on powerleveling. Since you state how helpful and kind the people over there are, I'm sure they'll be just fine, right?

Whoa there kiddo. You loves you some straw manning eh? No one said RPG Codex was "so helpful and kind"(though many there certainly can be), nor should they necessarily be. You were doing good when you simply said that the forum was not your cup of tea but now you are headed off the rails again.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:16 am

Skeptic wrote:
hepcat wrote:
Skeptic wrote: I like it here as well. Different forums with different vibes but that does not make either one a "cesspool".
No, but an entire thread devoted to one poster's excited discovery of midget porn (complete with extensive images) doesn't exactly help your case.
No idea what you are talking about here...?

Then you don't spend enough time in the general discussion sections as the thread exists exactly as I describe it.

To be fair, there does seem to be some helpful posters in the threads dedicated to gaming, but I would highly recommend to anyone who isn't a 12 year old who just discovered how to curse that they avoid any other threads. It seriously is a cesspool outside those areas.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:43 am

Skeptic wrote:More specifically, Ad hominem is a logical fallacy in which one attacks a person's(or more than one person's) character, rather than addressing the argument(s).

Ad hominem is reaching a conclusion about a person's argument based on a quality you attribute to that person. "Mr. Fed, you are an ass, which is how I know you are wrong about parking meters being used to send mind control rays from the government" is ad hominem. "Mr. Fed, you are wrong about parking meters, just as you are wrong about almost everything else you say. You are an ass," may be a personal attack, but it is not an ad hominem argument.

Similarly, "[forum] is a cesspool" is an attack, but not an ad hominem, unless phrased as "Cleve Blakemoor is great -- I know because the people who criticize him are at [forum], and that place is a cesspool."

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:45 am

Plus, you're right about parking meters being used to send mind control rays from the government.

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:15 pm

hepcat wrote:
Skeptic wrote:
hepcat wrote:
Skeptic wrote: I like it here as well. Different forums with different vibes but that does not make either one a "cesspool".
No, but an entire thread devoted to one poster's excited discovery of midget porn (complete with extensive images) doesn't exactly help your case.
No idea what you are talking about here...?
Then you don't spend enough time in the general discussion sections as the thread exists exactly as I describe it.

To be fair, there does seem to be some helpful posters in the threads dedicated to gaming, but I would highly recommend to anyone who isn't a 12 year old who just discovered how to curse that they avoid any other threads. It seriously is a cesspool outside those areas.

You are right. I don't spend any time in the General discussion area. If I am not mistaken that is the area where all sorts of non-gaming talk goes on and now days I try to avoid such for the same reason I avoid the political/religious discussion areas at THESE forums. If you think discussing midget porn is bad take a look at some of the silly, absurd, ignorant and spiteful political threads from the OO forums in years past.

Bottom line: I have nothing against kids posting about things I do not agree with or am not even interested in. I simply ignore such threads(or, depending on the forum may engage in debate with those I disagree with...just not about midget porn, breakfast cereal, Taylor Swift or "reality television"). But if we are to say that any forum that allows for childish or stupid things to be posted without censorship or heavy handed moderating is a "cesspool" then where does that leave us?

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:24 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:
Skeptic wrote:More specifically, Ad hominem is a logical fallacy in which one attacks a person's(or more than one person's) character, rather than addressing the argument(s).
Ad hominem is reaching a conclusion about a person's argument based on a quality you attribute to that person. "Mr. Fed, you are an ass, which is how I know you are wrong about parking meters being used to send mind control rays from the government" is ad hominem. "Mr. Fed, you are wrong about parking meters, just as you are wrong about almost everything else you say. You are an ass," may be a personal attack, but it is not an ad hominem argument.

Similarly, "[forum] is a cesspool" is an attack, but not an ad hominem, unless phrased as "Cleve Blakemoor is great -- I know because the people who criticize him are at [forum], and that place is a cesspool."

Partially true. I would add that, contrary to what you state here, If you enter into a debate, where arguments are being offered for a position and your response is to attack someone's character, then you are committing the ad hominem. My error here was that Bael's attack was not intended to initiate a debate about the quality of the RPG Codex but was instead, as you rightly describe, an unprovoked attack on a group of people he did not understand. So not an ad hom' but still rather tasteless and juvenille IMO.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:45 pm

That part you couldn't understand Skeptic, Mr. Fed stated it best. You used ad hominem incorrectly.

Besides, you keep using "Straw Man" and "ad hominem," which are terms for logical fallacies used, typically, in argument and debate. I wasn't "reasoning," I was giving my personal opinion on the behavior and tone of RPGCodex. If you want to properly categorize what I did, it would be slander (actually libel) if it is in print) - which denotes a comment, stated like it were fact, designed to impinge upon the reputation of another person or thing. Of course, I'm actually just stating how I feel, so I wasn't stating it as a fact, more a personal impression.

Look, Skeptic, let off of it. I, like others here, find swastika humor and attacks on sexuality poor taste. I've read the threads at RPGCodex many times, and there are pretty hostile and negative. To me a place that not only allows or embraces that sort of behavior is a "cesspool." Regarding 4Chan, the fact that you don't just find porn, but porn that bends my definition of acceptable, along with the negativity and hostility toward one another that I dislike there.

So keep your RPGCodex, this discussion is silly and pointless.

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:00 pm

baelthazar wrote:That part you couldn't understand Skeptic, Mr. Fed stated it best. You used ad hominem incorrectly.

Besides, you keep using "Straw Man" and "ad hominem," which are terms for logical fallacies used, typically, in argument and debate. I wasn't "reasoning," I was giving my personal opinion on the behavior and tone of RPGCodex. If you want to properly categorize what I did, it would be slander (actually libel) if it is in print) - which denotes a comment, stated like it were fact, designed to impinge upon the reputation of another person or thing. Of course, I'm actually just stating how I feel, so I wasn't stating it as a fact, more a personal impression.

Look, Skeptic, let off of it. I, like others here, find swastika humor and attacks on sexuality poor taste. I've read the threads at RPGCodex many times, and there are pretty hostile and negative. To me a place that not only allows or embraces that sort of behavior is a "cesspool." Regarding 4Chan, the fact that you don't just find porn, but porn that bends my definition of acceptable, along with the negativity and hostility toward one another that I dislike there.

So keep your RPGCodex, this discussion is silly and pointless.

That is fine. We could probably go on and on about this ad nauseum. I am not interested in doing so and made up my mind before your last post that I was done with this(save for conceding Mr Fed's point above) so...moving on now.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:19 pm

Skeptic wrote:. But if we are to say that any forum that allows for childish or stupid things to be posted without censorship or heavy handed moderating is a "cesspool" then where does that leave us?

With fewer cesspools on the internet?

And preventing posts that are racist or simply porn for the sake of porn is not what I would call "heavy handed"...unless your intent for the site in question is to create a cesspool...or you're running a juggalo site.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:25 pm

You sure like your "ad"s, don't you Skeptic.

I work with Latin for a living and don't use as many "ad" phrases!

Anyway, I'm cool. Sorry you were offended by my dislike of a forum you frequent. Oddly, it seems if I had made a crack at your sexuality or your race, you would have given me less flak.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:52 pm

baelthazar wrote: If you want to properly categorize what I did, it would be slander (actually libel) if it is in print) - which denotes a comment, stated like it were fact, designed to impinge upon the reputation of another person or thing. Of course, I'm actually just stating how I feel, so I wasn't stating it as a fact, more a personal impression.

It's only defamation (either slander or libel) if it's untrue.

JC Anejo · Post by **JC Anejo** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:51 pm

hepcat wrote:
Skeptic wrote: I like it here as well. Different forums with different vibes but that does not make either one a "cesspool".
No, but an entire thread devoted to one poster's excited discovery of midget porn (complete with extensive images) doesn't exactly help your case.

And what's wrong with midget porn......

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:57 pm

JC Anejo wrote:
hepcat wrote:
Skeptic wrote: I like it here as well. Different forums with different vibes but that does not make either one a "cesspool".
No, but an entire thread devoted to one poster's excited discovery of midget porn (complete with extensive images) doesn't exactly help your case.
And what's wrong with midget porn......

Around here we think it's a little below us.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:07 pm

That joke came up a little short, Mr. Fed.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:25 pm

Enough with the low blows, people.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:52 pm

Why do you guys look down on midget porn?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:02 pm

Because the conversations here dwarf all others.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:08 pm

Hey, I'll be the one to admit it: I'm nuts over midget porn.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:14 pm

I hate to stoop to this, but: if I wrote and directed midget porn, it would have to be a porn version of Lord of the Rings.

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:39 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:I hate to stoop to this, but: if I wrote and directed midget porn, it would have to be a porn version of Lord of the Rings.

Or if you wanted to go a somewhat 'furry' route you could do a version of Return of the Jedi, where the Ewoks have to save Endor by...Ug, let me stop right there.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:46 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:I hate to stoop to this, but: if I wrote and directed midget porn, it would have to be a porn version of Lord of the Rings.

Someone beat you to it. It's called "A Game of Thrones."

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:09 pm

Skeptic wrote:
Mr. Fed wrote:I hate to stoop to this, but: if I wrote and directed midget porn, it would have to be a porn version of Lord of the Rings.
Or if you wanted to go a somewhat 'furry' route you could do a version of Return of the Jedi, where the Ewoks have to save Endor by...Ug, let me stop right there.

You know that somewhere on the internet there is slash fiction with Frodo fucking an Ewok. You know it.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:50 pm

Papa Smurph · Post by **Papa Smurph** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:11 pm

So...... back on topic then...

So, Grimoire looks AWESOME! I wonder if I'll need to upgrade my computer to run it? Do you think it needs a coprocessor, or would a 286 SX be good enough? Maybe splurge for that extra 256 KB of RAM, just in case?

Anyway, the game has that "modern" look to it, but I'll sure I'll adjust eventually. Just need to drink my Ensure and put on my Depends before playing and I'll be ready!

Can't wait! BEST LOOKING GAME EVAR!!!11!!1

P.S. Seriously, Smoove, that was wrong!

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:11 pm

The Meal wrote:Hey, I'll be the one to admit it: I'm nuts over midget porn.

This one. This is the one.

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:16 am

Papa Smurph wrote:So...... back on topic then...

So, Grimoire looks AWESOME! I wonder if I'll need to upgrade my computer to run it? Do you think it needs a coprocessor, or would a 286 SX be good enough? Maybe splurge for that extra 256 KB of RAM, just in case?

Anyway, the game has that "modern" look to it, but I'll sure I'll adjust eventually. Just need to drink my Ensure and put on my Depends before playing and I'll be ready!

Can't wait! BEST LOOKING GAME EVAR!!!11!!1

P.S. Seriously, Smoove, that was wrong!

Only some double digit IQ having Homo Sapiens manboon, confused after too much homosexual frolicking with the mud people(I'm sorry..."cultural enrichment ambassadors") thinks he is capable of playing this game by virtue of adding a few 'bigger sticks"(of RAM) to his primitive tool set. Go back to your Kwanzanian rape parties. You will find nothing to your perverse liking in Grimoire.

/Cleve-like Neanderthal supremacy

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:25 pm

I have survived being hit by a car, can I play Grimoire?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:26 pm

Did you not only survive but also leave a baelthazar shaped dent in the fender? If so, then yes.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:07 pm

hepcat wrote:Did you not only survive but also leave a baelthazar shaped dent in the fender? If so, then yes.

We need an FAQ for this:

1. I am writing my own OS for the Department of Defense. Will my super-intellect be challenged by Grimoire's puzzles and riddles?

2. My bunker's solar panels only provide electricity for 4.5 hours each day. If I use those hours to play Grimoire (obviously completing every side-mission, because I must have perfection) how many decades will it take to finish the game?

3. I can't stand using avatars for my characters that are not Neaderthal-Caucasian. Will Girmoire contain any ethnic characters that might offend me?

Any more?

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:04 pm

baelthazar wrote:
hepcat wrote:Did you not only survive but also leave a baelthazar shaped dent in the fender? If so, then yes.
We need an FAQ for this:

1. I am writing my own OS for the Department of Defense. Will my super-intellect be challenged by Grimoire's puzzles and riddles?

2. My bunker's solar panels only provide electricity for 4.5 hours each day. If I use those hours to play Grimoire (obviously completing every side-mission, because I must have perfection) how many decades will it take to finish the game?

Apparently just over 1.5 .

Oh...you meant to play the game to the finish.

3. I can't stand using avatars for my characters that are not Neaderthal-Caucasian. Will Girmoire contain any ethnic characters that might offend me?

Any more?

LOL!

4. As a neanderthal with an appreciable, if not perfect IQ, will I be forced to pander to the manboons from the NAACP and succumb to the "cultural enrichment"(re: rape, theft and murder) of Dwarves, orcs and gnolls?