Helherron 2.04(Windows and Linux) to be released Sunday.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:31 am

Sadly, I think the guy to ask peacedog and and he hasn't been around these parts in a long time. I got 2.04 (I think) to work on XP with little problems and I don't do anything special to get it to work at all. It just worked. I did get the occasionally horde crash but it wasn't enough to frustrate me.

If you are running 64 bit, maybe run the game through XP mode. I haven't tried any games this way as I have 7x64 Home at home which doesn't come with XP Mode, but XP Mode works like a charm for 32 bit aps at work.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:39 pm

LordMortis wrote:Sadly, I think the guy to ask peacedog and and he hasn't been around these parts in a long time.

You are crazy and wrong.

I don't post nearly as such as I used to but I do lurk fairly regularly.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:41 pm

Strannik3, I have very very limited linux experience and unfortunately I am not the right guy to ask. I've never tried getting Helherron working in this method. Also, the last version I played regularly was like 2.01 or 2.02. I was going to go back to it but the bugs in 2.04 meant an attempt seemed like a bad idea.

Let me say this: you aren't missing anything sans sound. Provide your own soundtrack.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:57 pm

It is, indeed, an awesome game, and worth any efforts to load it up.

One thing: looks like Josh's page about the game has vanished off the net. That's too bad -- it had great stat and skill information that the in-game "manual" lacks.

Peacedog, anyone, is Josh's data replicated elsewhere? (For that matter, I don't know if Josh's data was current to 2.04).

Effidian · Post by **Effidian** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:17 pm

I dumped all the data off my site (for unrelated reasons).

It was never updated to 2.04. If someone wants to host the data somewhere, PM me an email address and I'll zip it up and send it over.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:42 pm

I'll host it at Popehat if you let me. Ken at popehat dot com.

Effidian · Post by **Effidian** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:50 pm

It's on the way.

Strannik3 · Post by **Strannik3** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:35 am

Between answers from Peacedog, from SkeleTony and guide sent by Donpachi (on another game forum), I got answers for pretty much all my game mechanics questions for now. Thanks a lot Peacedog!

Now my only remaining problem is to get Helherron 2.04 for Linux to work properly on my machine (meaning - with sound). I've tried to play without sound in my current setup but I've found it to be quite a bit less convenient, considering very brief and limited combat feedback text (just 1-2 lines of text describing the most recent combat action) and inability to see combat log. (is it indeed impossible or am I missing something here?)

So the big question is - Has anybody here ever played Helherron 2.04 for Linux? And if so - does it indeed have sound, just like Helherron 2.04 for Windows has?

Elbino · Post by **Elbino** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:11 am

Great to hear that Josh's stuff might get a new home. I have Helherron linux working with sound on ubuntu. PM sent on that issue.

I have an issue with Helherron that got me into trouble a few times. Don't accidentally hit create new party at the title screen and then enter again or your nice save will be toast if it's in the first slot. It's easier to do than it looks if you're hurrying on autopilot. There's no confirmation to delete the old save and once it's gone it's gone. If you're creating a new party, make it in the 3rd or 4th slot to prevent accidental sadness. I speak from experience.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:19 am

Effidian wrote:It's on the way.

Hey, that's great to hear. A lot of work went into it and it was a fantastic guide.

It was actually originally based on some tips/strategy posts I made at GG, but you added so much to it (including all the hard numbers I did not have). Sadly those postings, and any other strategy postings people made are lost to time.

Strannik3 · Post by **Strannik3** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:01 pm

Effidian wrote:I dumped all the data off my site (for unrelated reasons).

It was never updated to 2.04. If someone wants to host the data somewhere, PM me an email address and I'll zip it up and send it over.

So you are that mysterious "Josh" person Effidian??

Heh, I knew I've come to the right place when I've joined OO.

FYI almost all helpful threads on Helherron that I was able to dig up over the last few days included references to your "Josh's Helherron site" and a guide. And I just received yesterday an incomplete guide that a kind soul from Q3 OCRed and has sent to me. It is indeed very helpful, even though my copy is missing some pages. I am glad to hear that it's going to be resurrected.

BTW somebody told me that either on your site or on some other Helherron site that also went dark, there was a guide posted by someone on how to make Helherron run under Linux (possibly even under virtualbox/ubuntu setup). Is there any chance that this Linux setup guide is also somewhere among your backup data?

I am still unable to make Helherron-Linux 2.04 work with sound, and I've found that playing without sound is very inconvenient due to very limited combat text feedback (just 1 line of text describing the current combat action) and inability to see combat logs.

I've tried messing with virtualbox audiosetup (on a very amateurish level, since I never used VB or Linux OS before), but no luck. Need help.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:19 pm

Well, there is on-screen feedback too. If you hit an eenmy there will be a pixel splatter. The splatter size and absurdity is proportionate to the damage done. If memopry serves there is a delay to account for this, like the action "sticks" (a sword swung down stays down for a moment?). I'm not saying you abandon your quest, but you should be aware of these things.

Strannik3 · Post by **Strannik3** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:12 pm

Peacedog wrote:Well, there is on-screen feedback too. If you hit an eenmy there will be a pixel splatter. The splatter size and absurdity is proportionate to the damage done. If memopry serves there is a delay to account for this, like the action "sticks" (a sword swung down stays down for a moment?). I'm not saying you abandon your quest, but you should be aware of these things.

Yeap, I am aware of that, thank you.

Elbino · Post by **Elbino** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:30 pm

I didn't mention this in the PM, but it's very important. If you've set up Ubuntu, make sure you get the "guest additions" (VboxGuestAddtions.iso) for Ubuntu. I *think* that this will sort out the sound problems you're having. If it doesn't, I'm probably stumped. OTOH, as Peacedog has mentioned, Helherron sounds aren't going to win any prizes. Normally winamp serves as my Helherron soundtrack.

Strannik3 · Post by **Strannik3** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:48 pm

Elbino wrote:I didn't mention this in the PM, but it's very important. If you've set up Ubuntu, make sure you get the "guest additions" (VboxGuestAddtions.iso) for Ubuntu. I *think* that this will sort out the sound problems you're having. If it doesn't, I'm probably stumped. OTOH, as Peacedog has mentioned, Helherron sounds aren't going to win any prizes. Normally winamp serves as my Helherron soundtrack.

Thank you. I've actually done it just last night. Installing Guest Additions did help by letting me increase ubuntu resolution beyond 800x600 (which was too low for Helherron). But the game still plays with no sound.

Effidian · Post by **Effidian** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:33 am

My site never had a Linux guide.

Yes, I'm the "Josh", and as Peacedog mentioned, my guide initially started with Peacedog's list of tips. Then I spent a billion hours rolling parties to find the min/max values and figure it all out... I can't believe I did that.

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:47 am

Josh and Peacedog are legend.

This is "SkeleTony" BTW.

Strannik3 · Post by **Strannik3** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:28 am

Heh, what a small internet world.

Hi SkeleTony.

Question: is there any way to acquire new skill for your character after you generated your party? For example my mage didn't have any melee wepon skills when I generated him. Which I think puts him in disadvantage since now he can't develop his melee skill to get DB from defensive tactic (as recommended in John's guide).

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:35 am

Effidian wrote:My site never had a Linux guide.

Yes, I'm the "Josh", and as Peacedog mentioned, my guide initially started with Peacedog's list of tips. Then I spent a billion hours rolling parties to find the min/max values and figure it all out... I can't believe I did that.

I Remember sitting down and trying to do that and deciding it was something I would never finish. I always amired and feared you a little bit because you did it. ;P

Strannik3 wrote:uestion: is there any way to acquire new skill for your character after you generated your party? For example my mage didn't have any melee wepon skills when I generated him. Which I think puts him in disadvantage since now he can't develop his melee skill to get DB from defensive tactic (as recommended in John's guide).

Yes, there are skill trainers in the castle.

Except. . .well it has been forever. I think they can get you to a point wher you can raise a skill up at level up. But I might be mistaken on that?

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:45 am

I just started a new game(old one got messed up somehow) so I will check out some of these things such as skill trainers and what not.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:52 pm

No - it seems you can only improve skills that you have a positive score in.

Couldn't resist getting a book of summon golem on my trip to the capital city, even though it will be awhile before I can use it. There was nothing else to buy, anyway.

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Peacedog wrote:No - it seems you can only improve skills that you have a positive score in.

Couldn't resist getting a book of summon golem on my trip to the capital city, even though it will be awhile before I can use it. There was nothing else to buy, anyway.

LOL! I just made the trip to 'Galatako'(or whatever it's called) as well. No "Summon Golem" book though but found, as you did that we cannot buy new skills apparently.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:07 pm

I forgot to get one of my mages the merchant skill. Dang it. I may need to re-roll.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:41 pm

Urge to start a new game rising . . . .

(From last time, I would go Golem Barbarian, Dwarf Fighter, Troll Barbarian, Elf Fighter (as an archer), Elf Bard (bard/backup mage/merchant), fairy mage, fairy priest, orc shaman.)

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:19 pm

Hmmm, I'd forgotten about this game. I played it up to the point where I ran into bugs and then gave it up. Is there a recommended version? I just checked and I was playing version 2.04 which appears to be problematic. I just dug around in my old file archives and found a PC version labeled "2.03 Final" and installed that one. Is that version a better/more stable one than 2.04? If it is, I think I'm going to take a crack at this again.

EDIT: Never mind. I see the answer to my question is a page or two back. Is v2.04 really that much better than v2.03? I also have a version labeled 2.04a. is that any different than 2.04?

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:19 pm

IIRC 2.04 adds some graphic polish and adds the Shaman class.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:20 pm

What are the chances something like this (or this specifically, given the thread) would run on a mobile device? Say, an android phone for example?

Skeptic · Post by **Skeptic** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:56 am

Coldsteel,

2.03 is WAY more stable(but you need a name and passcode to register it...which I can get you). It is missing the new icons(PC, NPC, Monsters, terrain etc.) and the new Shaman class but this would only be of real interest to you if you have already beaten an earlier Helherron and/or have some inexplicable desire to start a new game and check out the Shaman(a Mage/Priest hybrid and master summoner). I only suffer through 2.04 because I know exactly where and how many 'mega-damage scrolls' I will need to get through those areas.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:46 am

Skeptic wrote:Coldsteel,

2.03 is WAY more stable(but you need a name and passcode to register it...which I can get you). It is missing the new icons(PC, NPC, Monsters, terrain etc.) and the new Shaman class but this would only be of real interest to you if you have already beaten an earlier Helherron and/or have some inexplicable desire to start a new game and check out the Shaman(a Mage/Priest hybrid and master summoner). I only suffer through 2.04 because I know exactly where and how many 'mega-damage scrolls' I will need to get through those areas.

Thank, Skeptic. Actually the 2.03 version that I have came packaged with a text file that included someone's name and passcode. i think I got it from the old Underdogs site. It sounds like I should be playing 2.03 so that is what I shall do. Thanks for the tip.

Speaking of tips, are there ANY surviving sites that provide any information on this game (tip/hints/walkthrughs/anything at all)? I just don't remember much of anything about what I was doing with it 5 years ago. I do remember to go to the right cave when starting out but that's about it.

Is the file that Mr. Fed is going to host on Popehat going to be available to everyone? Seems a shame that since this game is so difficult, none of the player's hard earned knowledge survives to help others (other than what's in this thread).

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:00 am

I posted some tips in this Qt3 thread.

I kept saying "Ogre" When I meant "troll". Eeep.

Let me reiterate a few things (and add a few more):

1. Golems are great. The low move sucks but you can fix it later. But you can set their tactics to aggressive and they'll one shot a lot of monsters you meet in the early going. Also, they cna carry WAY more than everone else. They have a built in racial carrying capacity that extends beyond their already high strength scores (by a long shot). Later a +move item or two will turn them into super balls of death.

2. That troll will help you a lot with seeing the battle field in caves. He'll be pretty good in his own right, not quite as good as the golems (early; later everybody will rock).

3. Archers come into their own once you can start stacking + move items on them. I didn't care for the mechanic that allowed this, but it's there and at your disposal.

4. Minimum 3 casters (2 priests, 1 mage), and you probably want 4 (2/2, with a shaman at your leisure).

5. You'll want someone who can use the merchant skill, if not an actual merchant. A mage/priest will suffice if you remember to make sure they roll a few points in the skill (I'm pretty sure they can). A merchant does make a pretty good ar4cher (slower start, though).

6. Use the potions, scrolls, and wands you find. This is not a typical CRPG where you rarely need these things. You'll always want to be visiting stores that sell such things; you never know when you'll find a useable item that helps you get through a tight spot.

7. After the starting goblinoid caverns, you'll often be doing dungeons piecemeal. A few encounters in this one, then a few in that one. That's the nature of the game. You will be re-loading *alot* just as a matter of course so you won't notice reloads for wandering in places you aught not wander to.

8. Do NOT forget to check the chest in your starting room.

9. The big difference between barbarians and Fighters is the latter "specialize" in 2h weapons and the former in 1h (specialize meas = get the best skill multiplier; Barbs get +5 for 2h weapon types, Fighters +5 for 1h).

10. Learning dictates how many "training points" you get at level up. You can't spend more than 3 on any one skill. The skill is rasied based on the formula: training points * skill multiplier. Multipliers are all class based. So mages/priests will be gaining casting skill on level ups at 15 point clips (3x5). You always want to max this on casting/primary weapon skills at level up. ALWAYS.

11. There are two defenses: the ability to withstand damage and the ability to dodge attacks. Heavy armor tends to give the former and penalize the latter, but magic abilities will alter that.

12. Spells that disable are critical; you'll want to get a healthy amount fort all casters. If you find a nifty sleep spell book, give it to your mage. If you then find confusion, give it to the other so they both have something they can cast to disable bad guys.

Effidian · Post by **Effidian** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:05 am

I'll just add, that if you play 2.03, Monks are really good (lizard monk, if I recall correctly, are uber). The ability to ignore zones of control is a huge advantage. I know he changed it in 2.04, and since I never played 2.04 I can't comment on them in 2.04. I did the solo run with a Monk, and couldn't imagine doing it with any other class.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:09 am

Effidian wrote:I'll just add, that if you play 2.03, Monks are really good (lizard monk, if I recall correctly, are uber). The ability to ignore zones of control is a huge advantage. I know he changed it in 2.04, and since I never played 2.04 I can't comment on them in 2.04. I did the solo run with a Monk, and couldn't imagine doing it with any other class.

Lizard Men monks got HtH bonuses. Evles got a little prayer bonus, but that was completely useless. Also, don't lizardmen have like really good base resists?

2.04 began using a skill to dictate whether you ignored ZoCs, so it stopped being an inherent advantage I think?

Also, can someone share the 2.03 version somewhere so I can download it?

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:54 am

Great tips, guys. Many thanks. That should get me going again.

I don't have a site but I can provide my copy of 2.03 to someone if they want to host it. I do know that no one hosts it anymore. It just can't be found on the Internets as far as I can tell. I was really lucky to find that old file in my zips archive.

Edit: Or, I can just email it to you, Peacedog, if you want to send me your email address.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:15 pm

peacedog at gmail dot com.

I would really appreciate it.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:31 pm

Done!

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:17 pm

Bah. Gave in to pressure. Downloaded, installed, and rolled a party.

One oddity: the graphics on 2.04 look different than I remember. For instance, the streets of the stater town are blue. Hmm.

Madmarcus · Post by **Madmarcus** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:37 pm

I don't need another game. But if you can toss a copy of 2.03 towards davidbonar01 (gmail) I'd appreciate it.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:42 pm

How big is that 2.03 file? If it's not too massive I should be able to throw up a copy.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:51 pm

ColdSteel I have not seen your email yet (I have been checking spam). It might be nice if we could get sepiche to host though (just speaking generally).

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:04 pm

The file size is about 8MB. I'll be glad to send it to you for hosting, Sepiche, it that's not too big.

Peacedog, I don't know what the issue is unless Comcast has some kind of upload limit I don't know about or gmail has an email file size limitation. Hosting it somewhere that everyone could get it would be the best option.

Edit: Madmarcus, I'll try sending to you as well. Post if you get it.