Ultima 7 & 8

[Daehawk]

Im thinking of reinstalling these old favorites of mine..well U7 pt2 serpent Isle is..U8 is ok. I have played them both a half dozen times but never finished either of them. Ive come close but either I get bored, stuck, or something more shiny comes along and I lose interest.

Besides Exult, is there anything else I should know or need to play them? I have DosBox if nothing else works.

[Bandero]

Exult is the way to play U7 or Serpent Isle. No reason to mess around with Dosbox, exult is much better (in my opinion anyways).

Exult doesn't work for U8 though - there is a similar project called Pentagram I think though to play U8 on a modern machine. Not sure about the status of that project though.

[jpinard]

What's Exult?

[Suitably Ironic Moniker]

EXALT, it's Exult!

[Daehawk]

After finding my boxes and reading the manuals and hint books again last night, Im not sure if Im reinstalling or not. I had forgotten about the having to eat and feed your party crap. God I remember thier constant whining that they were hungry all the time..even with food in thier packs. I had to stop and feed them so damn much....sigh.

[killbot737]

Oh man did I hate all that whining about being hungry all the time! I'm supposed to be the frickin' AVATAR! I should be pooping roast beef and spitting flan all over the place if need be, not listening to Iolo lecture me about not doing evil things when I'm trying to steal food for his hungry ass!

I jumped all over the "cheat" menu to fix all those damn whiners but good.

[Daehawk]

Oh thats right Exult has a cheat thing dont it. You can actually make them stop eating? Thats great

[Daehawk]

Iee I cant leave Trinsic! To leave I need the password from the mayor but he wants me to consult my cloth map to tell him some number on it. Well seeing as I dont have the cloth map Im kinda bumfucked. I have one for serpent Isle but my U7 is from a small clssic box called The Complete Ultima 7..it has both games and both expansions but no map or anything.

Is there an Exult cheat for this?

[nymanium]

I got bored and did a little search and this guide seems to hold the answer you're looking for Click on the Dan Simpson one.[/quote]

[Daehawk]

Wow cool ny,..thank you.

[Jaymann]

I never played any of the Ultima games (Except tried 9 which was unplayable and Online which was even worse) so I decided to try Ultima 8 while watching a guide. This is the only way for me with all the running back and forth.

Pro:

I love walking into houses and robbing them blind.

Con:

The controls are so wonky on a dos box it will probably make me quit. For example I spent 10 minutes trying to add a key to my key chain. This is especially frustrating since I succeeded a few time. Also I picked up a gem but could not put it in my backpack.

[Daehawk]

Alright you necromancer, come out with your keyboard up.

It amuses me to start reading a thread and then realize Im the one who posted it. No memory at all.

[JCC]

I never played any of the Ultima games (Except tried 9 which was unplayable and Online which was even worse) so I decided to try Ultima 8 while watching a guide. This is the only way for me with all the running back and forth.

Both of the games you have tried are horrible and from when EA was in the process of ruining Origin Systems and Ultima. Literally all of the games before them are much better, albeit a product of their time. Generally, speaking Ultimas IV and VII (and the games in between) are probably most widely recognized as the best of the bunch. The Ultima Underworld games were also pretty amazing in their day but the UI makes them very difficult to play. But they pioneered so many things that led to games like Thief, System Shock, Deus Ex, etc.

[Skinypupy]

I’ve also never played any of the Ultima games. By the time I had a PC and interest in RPGs, graphics had moved to the point where going back and playing “retro” games was really difficult for me to stomach. I’ve thought about giving them a try at some point, but doubt they’d hold up well without the nostalgia attachment.

[Carpet_pissr]

Yeah, Ultima 8 was one of those rare games I bought on Day One, and was totally disappointed:
1. Controls and UI (even for back then) were deplorable and very janky. Possibly related to 2.below.
2. The hardware requirements at the time were off the charts, and I think I remember reading that even with the highest end computer/graphics card at the time, the game ran terribly (so I assume it was just not optimized well).

It looked beautiful though, in all its 8FPS glory! Trying to jump accurately with such low frame rates ultimately (ha!) killed the game for me.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I never played any of the Ultima games (Except tried 9 which was unplayable and Online which was even worse) so I decided to try Ultima 8 while watching a guide. This is the only way for me with all the running back and forth.

Pro:

I love walking into houses and robbing them blind.

Con:

The controls are so wonky on a dos box it will probably make me quit. For example I spent 10 minutes trying to add a key to my key chain. This is especially frustrating since I succeeded a few time. Also I picked up a gem but could not put it in my backpack.

If you happen to own Dungeon Siege, try playing Ultima V: Lazarus instead, described as follows:

What is Lazarus?

Ultima V: Lazarus is an exceedingly ambitious project that greatly improves the graphics and sound of the PC version of Ultima V. However, that's not all. Rather than releasing an "upgrade patch," as happened with Ultima IV, what we've done is a true from-the-ground-up remake of the gaming classic, Ultima V.

It is built in the Dungeon Siege 3D RPG engine, which you can learn more about at DUNGEONSIEGE.COM, and it has brand new graphics, CD-quality orchestral music (including re-mastered versions of the original U5 music plus some new pieces), improved and expanded dialogue, and a much more "alive" design for the Underworld, amongst other improvements.

The Shadowlords have come. Lord British, the True King of Britannia, has been taken by them. Blackthorn, friend of the king and regent in Lord British's absence, has fallen into corruption and seized the Crown for himself. The Companions of the Avatar, your friends, have been named outlaw and live in hiding. Britannia lies in darkness, in fear. Animosity and deceptions abound. You last left Britannia in a golden age of Virtue and Enlightenment, but it is to this that you return.

Save our King. Find a way to stop the Shadowlords. Free Britannia from Blackthorn's tyranny. Light the way to some answers, before the shadows becomes so black that no answers can be seen. If you fall prey to this darkness, Avatar, then I fear we truly will be lost.

Gameplay Features

• THE BEAUTIFUL DUNGEON SIEGE 3D ENGINE.
• ALL CD-QUALITY MUSIC, INCLUDING RE-MASTERED VERSIONS OF THE ORIGINAL ULTIMA V SONGS AND A VARIETY OF NEW PIECES.
• 3D-RENDERED INTRODUCTION, CUTSCENE, AND ENDGAME GRAPHICS.
• NEW CHARACTERS.
• NEW SIDE QUESTS.
• DEEPER, RICHER PLOT.
• ENHANCED DIALOGUE.
• IMPROVED AND EXPANDED TOWN AND DUNGEON MAPS.
• A MUCH MORE "ALIVE" DESIGN FOR THE UNDERWORLD.

YMMV, but I recall playing with the U5 Lazarus recommended mods here, and found 'em useful.

Keep in mind though, you will almost certainly need to keep a notebook or something similar handy, as there is no in-game journal to keep track of people, stories, quests, etc. But that's all part of the old school experience and, in a way, can help further immerse you into the story.

[Jaymann]

I figured out my main problem. Somehow my primary backpack got inside another backpack. So I can't drag and drop onto my back, but if I open the "inside" backpack, that one works. Though somehow I get quest items in the outer pack. Clunky af but not worth trying to fix.

[JCC]

I always meant to give Lazarus a try but never did.

Generally, from Ulitma IV on you should be taking notes (or using the internet) to keep up with what you should be doing.

[Jaymann]

Well I got screwed by the walkthrough I was watching. He was doing things in his own order, but went over some lava with his air walk focus item. I have the item but it landed me into the lava. Too bad because the videos were fine up until this point. Now I need to backup and find a traditional order walkthrough. At least I have a lot of good items.

[Jaymann]

Well I finished Ultima VIII. To illustrate the difficulty, the video guy I watched was excellent, but even he screwed up in places and had to resort to creative solutions. The problem was I then had no idea how to do it the "right" way. Most of my problems resulted from wonky controls. I think there is a limit on how much weight you can carry, but there is no indication until you can't pick something up. Eventually I used a chest near a teleport hub. It's hard to know what items you will need without a guide. I found every magic weapon, but only used 2 of them.

Now to check out U 7.

[Carpet_pissr]

Well I finished Ultima VIII. To illustrate the difficulty, the video guy I watched was excellent, but even he screwed up in places and had to resort to creative solutions. The problem was I then had no idea how to do it the "right" way. Most of my problems resulted from wonky controls. I think there is a limit on how much weight you can carry, but there is no indication until you can't pick something up. Eventually I used a chest near a teleport hub. It's hard to know what items you will need without a guide. I found every magic weapon, but only used 2 of them.

Now to check out U 7.

Wow, you really cranked through that! How many hours?

[Jaymann]

Well I finished Ultima VIII. To illustrate the difficulty, the video guy I watched was excellent, but even he screwed up in places and had to resort to creative solutions. The problem was I then had no idea how to do it the "right" way. Most of my problems resulted from wonky controls. I think there is a limit on how much weight you can carry, but there is no indication until you can't pick something up. Eventually I used a chest near a teleport hub. It's hard to know what items you will need without a guide. I found every magic weapon, but only used 2 of them.

Now to check out U 7.

Wow, you really cranked through that! How many hours?

51 hr 38 min. Since I was following a straight forward guide, I probably missed a lot of non-essential content. But that doesn't bother me.

[baelthazar]

Be sure to download all of the modern plug-ins for Ultima 7 and Serpent's Isle. Otherwise, the game is unplayable (you have to slow down CPU cycles to the game, since it is real-time).

U7 is, by far, the best Ultima. I started the series with U6, which I actually still have this deep nostalgia for. The U6 engine was used for two other games, Martian Dreams and Savage Empire. You actually play as The Avatar in both of those games (and Savage Empire has analogs of the Ultima Characters in this alternate world).

I have the dubious distinction of having beat U8 and U9. The ending of U9 is actually pretty awesome, even if the game was terrible.

[baelthazar]

Fun fact, EA/Origin had to send new Install CDs to people who preordered U9, because the internet wasn't strong enough to download the MASSIVE files needed to patch the game.

[Daehawk]

I played and finished both Ultima 6 and 7 on SNES. I rented them from Blockbuster Video. Didn't have a pc yet.

I got a PC in 1994 and was able to pick up U7 pt2 Serpents Isle on a sale in EB. I could swear I got it in 1995 but maybe late 1994. Its funny as it released in 1993. Back then software stores kept stuff for years and sold them in sales and stuff. It was an amazing time. From the mall we went across the road to a Food Max and I sat in the car at the sidewalk and opened it and read the manual while my wife went inside to the bank. its funny how you remember some things so well and other events are just gone forever. Doesn't seem to matter if they are huge events or just everyday fare.

I ended up getting both dlc including the voice pack and then one Day got U7 again in a collectors pack with both DLC also. I got U8 and it was ok...was not happy with it at all though. I never got U9 until a trade or gift either here or somewhere else in the 2000s . I tried it...was horrible and promptly deleted.

Still have them all mint in box too. I recently got Ultima 7 again in original box with the goodies inside off Ebay around 10 years ago same time I got a original Wing Commander. It came with a black moonstone. I couldn't figure why so I wrote Richard Garriott. He actually wrote back. If Im not mistaken he said those came in special versions of Ultima 6.

[Daehawk]

Fun fact, EA/Origin had to send new Install CDs to people who preordered U9, because the internet wasn't strong enough to download the MASSIVE files needed to patch the game.

Lets see...game is about 894 megs according to GoG. I had a half ISDN of 64k then which is like 64,000 bps. Ugh and I thought that was fast. Yet at the time it was very fast.

In 1994 it took me 8 hours to download a 8 meg Arena the ES demo on a 2400 baud modem. That was the exact time I knew it was time to beg for a 28.8 ....or maybe that was ON a 28.8. I think 28.8 was much faster.

Neat baud and modem speed site.
http://www.ashep.com/sw/data-xfer-speed.html

[baelthazar]

IIRC, the install size of U9 prohibited a LOT of people from playing the game. In 1999, the news was talking about the upcoming advent of the 30GB hard drive, which was going to cost $200+ (a lot in 1999). Most hard drives were around 4GB or so and some of the largest available commercially were 16GB. The install size of the game wasn't the full ~900MB, but it was 600MB, which was 15% of the average drive. They had to send a CD as a patch, because the game ran a lot off the CD and, as you said, the average user was not able to download the files or house them on their PC.

Here are the system requirements for U9:
SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
Minimum Configuration
• Windows® 95 or Windows®98 (Windows® NT is not supported)
• 266 MHz or faster Intel® Pentium® II processor
• 64MBRAM
• 8x CD-ROM drive (1200K/second transfer rate) using 32-bit Windows 95/98 CD-ROM driver
• 8 MB 3D graphics accelerator with DirectDraw ™ and Direct3D™ or Glide ™ compatible driver
•DirectX™ 7 compatible Sound Card
• 600 MB free hard disk space plus space for saved games (additional space required for DirectX 7 installation)
• Keyboard, mouse

Recommended Configuration
• 400 MHz or faster Pentium II processor
• 128 MB RAM • 1 GB free hard disk space plus space for saved games (additional space required for DirectX 7 installation)
• 16 MB 3D graphics accelerator using the Voodoo3™ chipset
• DirectX 7 compatible sound card with EAXTM and DirectSound3D™ support

[baelthazar]

It came with a black moonstone. I couldn't figure why so I wrote Richard Garriott. He actually wrote back. If Im not mistaken he said those came in special versions of Ultima 6.

Most of the Ultima games came with great "toys" in the box. I had the black moonstone from U6. U7 came with a Fellowship medallion (a triangle). Ultima 8 had a pentagram coin (which is sitting on my desk even as I type this). The pentagram coin got a LOT of flak, since we were still in the grip of the "satanic panic" that targeted D&D in the 80s and spilled over into the 90s.

[Blackhawk]

U9 was the first, and only, Ultima I ever played. It was frustrating and buggy as hell, but I really, really enjoyed it. It came early in my PC gaming experience, and a fully 3d fantasy world that I could walk around in, combined with gameplay that wasn't just endless hack-and-slash amazed me. It probably also helped that I hadn't had any experience with the series, so I wasn't comparing it to its predecessors. I still have the cloth map and the deck of 'virtue' cards it came with.

I could write almost the same set of comments about King's Quest 8: Mask of Eternity. It came out about the same time, got a similar reception from fans of the earlier titles, and I absolutely loved it for the same reasons (although it wasn't buggy at all, at least for me.)

[Daehawk]

I dont think I have that U7 triangle coin. Have the other stuff.

Those system specs for U9 really show how hardware in the 90s just kept getting higher every year or two. My shiny new PC in 1994 came with 4 megs ram. So 5 years later you needed 64 megs. I remember upgrading parts then whole pcs every year and every few years respectively. My system now I built in 2010 I think and started with 8 gigs of ram and added 8 more a few years later. But I dont really need it...just wanted to be sure. And Im still using it to play games. This year is the first year I cant run the very newest games but some are due to the OS requirement.

[Blackhawk]

My first PC in 1998 had a 66Mhz processor. The one I replaced it with was a...333MHz, I think. When I moved to Indiana in 2000 (two years after the 66MHz), I was already rocking a 500MHz. That's an insane jump in two years.

[Suitably Ironic Moniker]

Ultima IV/V were the reasons that I got into PC/Apple gaming and RPGs in particular. I have so many great memories of sleeping over at my cousin's house so that we could continue our journey through Britannia. I absolutely loved the series through U7 part 2 (the Computer Gaming World cover story featuring the upcoming Ultima VII was read and reread countless times in anticipation). U8 was a big crash and burn for me; I got what he was trying to do, but it was just such a sea change from the previous games that I hated it. I got to play U9 a few years after release and was not impressed (though there was a fan made patch that reworked the story through the dialogue the best that it could that helped some). Still, I will always love the series for inspiring me as it did.

[Daehawk]

I absolutely loved the series through U7 part 2 (the Computer Gaming World cover story featuring the upcoming Ultima VII was read and reread countless times in anticipation).

[JCC]

Ultima III was my first. Needed a strat guide to figure out how to finish it. But, I sunk so many hours into it. Have replayed it multiple times. A buddy of mine and I manged to collaborate on each others' playthrough of Ultimas IV and V to get through without a strat guide. Also loved playing Ultimas 1 and 2 though more primitive. Ultima VI just ran too poorly on my C64 so didn't really finish it until the SNES version (this was not a bad version btw). Did play it on PC later of course. Ultima VII and Seprent Isle were great - though I hate the combat in both. Very little player control is needed - thankfully so since it's kind of a hot mess. But the story/quests were amazing. I can't imagine how anyone can get through SI without a walkthrough.

I have tried with the Underworlds, but I was way late to that party and think the UI just gets in the way. I would love a more modern adaptation with more modern FPRPG controls.

The (not really Ultima) Underworld Ascendant game was a mess though I had some fun with it - never finished it or came close.

I loved video games well before I ever played an Ultima, but the Ultima and Thief series are my two all time favorite series (though they both didn't end that great).

[baelthazar]

Two fun Ultima stories.

I had a custom built PC in the 90s (technically most PCs were custom built back then). It was pretty powerful, for the time. That said, when I tried to run Ultima VII, the memory manager (called Voodoo) for the game completely didn't work with my version of DRDOS. So my PC savvy family friend had to create a completely new boot option that specifically configured the PC for Ultima VII. I went from being super excited to down trodden, to super excited again when we got it to work.

I started playing Ultima VII without a sound card, using only onboard "bings, dings, and pops." It wasn't great, but it was "normal" for the time. I managed to save up some money for a Soundblaster, which was a Soundblaster Pro (or perhaps Pro 2). The first game I booted up was Ultima VII.

Imagine a 12 (almost 13) year old sitting in a chair and suddenly jumping, almost falling out of the chair, when the Guardian yells "AVATAR! AVATAR!" during the introduction. It is such a deep and amazing memory for me that it created a fanatical brand loyalty to Creative. I have owned many PCs since then, and every one of them has had a Soundblaster card. People may say this isn't necessary with onboard sound these days. I believe they are wrong.

[Zarathud]

I remember playing Ultima II on my Commodore 64. And graphing out the dungeons endlessly.

[Jaymann]

Question about Ultima 7. I am in Britain now, and so far have not seen any jumping places. Jumping made U9 unplayable and several places in U8 almost made me quit. Is there jumping in U7?

[Daehawk]

Zero jumping.

[Daehawk]

Two fun Ultima stories.

I had a custom built PC in the 90s (technically most PCs were custom built back then). It was pretty powerful, for the time. That said, when I tried to run Ultima VII, the memory manager (called Voodoo) for the game completely didn't work with my version of DRDOS. So my PC savvy family friend had to create a completely new boot option that specifically configured the PC for Ultima VII. I went from being super excited to down trodden, to super excited again when we got it to work.

I started playing Ultima VII without a sound card, using only onboard "bings, dings, and pops." It wasn't great, but it was "normal" for the time. I managed to save up some money for a Soundblaster, which was a Soundblaster Pro (or perhaps Pro 2). The first game I booted up was Ultima VII.

Imagine a 12 (almost 13) year old sitting in a chair and suddenly jumping, almost falling out of the chair, when the Guardian yells "AVATAR! AVATAR!" during the introduction. It is such a deep and amazing memory for me that it created a fanatical brand loyalty to Creative. I have owned many PCs since then, and every one of them has had a Soundblaster card. People may say this isn't necessary with onboard sound these days. I believe they are wrong.

I also built my systems back then and made them as top of the line as I could. I hated the voodoo memory manager. It conflicted with everything. Luckily I didn't use DRDOS or anything so didn't have many troubles. But it was easier to make a boot disk for every game. Well until I figured out a great config.sys and autoexec.bat setup.

My first PC had no sound card in 1994. I stopped by the mall store after getting the pc. My wife was going to buy me a card. But they would not have one until the next day. So that night I was stuck with pc speaker. So wife got me a couple games...Master of Orion and also Wing Commander Privateer. I already owned Star Trek as we got it on sale earlier in the year or the year before. I wanted a pc so bad I bought a game before I could own one lol. I admit that Star Trek 25th Anniversary didn't sound too bad..at least to me and my first pc. But the next day we went back to town and she got me a Sound Blaster 16 and some Labtec LCS-800 speakers. Back to 25th Ann and it blew me away with the amazing music and the original style show intro. I have been a Creative fan since. Im using a Sound Blaster Z these days.

[hitbyambulance]

Sierra On-Line was the company that really pushed sound cards for PC-DOS machines in the late 80s, and my brother and i were early enthusiasts of the sound card thing (this really made the case:

)

we got an Adlib card for xmas of '88 (really, really wanted a Roland MT-32 but they were exorbitantly expensive) - not perfect by any means, but it was certainly better than the PC buzzer.