Jagged Alliance 2 AAR (dial-up beware)

[daedalus]

I thought the teaching ability was purely for Trainer - Student relationships?

Teaching ability helps that as well. It also helps with militia. That's why the team of Buns-Ira rocks so much.

In my last game I used Raven's husband for militia. Expensive though.

Agreed! Much too costly for a pure militia trainer (okay, he's a decent merc, too, but there are better for better value).

But doesn't their low leadership hold them back? In my current situation am I better using Quitch for militia, along with Buns, or using Buns and Ira? I assume the former as your point is that Ira will pick it up quickly (but that's no good in my current emergency) and combined with teaching will be excellent, yes?

Hmmmmm. I see your point. At this point, with the impending counter-attack, you need to get those militia out there as fast as possible. As such, Quitch-Buns is your best choice as you said. Good call on that. Too bad you didn't go AW-teaching instead.

[Massena]

I'm suddenly finding it difficult to resist the urge to install...
What a fantastic game JA2 is. Just have to finish off some other games. I'll be back!

Truly, the force is strong with this one. Don't try to fight it.

I sure didn't.

[Quitch]

I away over the weekend but had a few games over at a friends. One thing is beginning to irk me greatly... the enemy cheat in the early game. I actually confirmed this at the 1.13 forums, it seems that in the early part of the game the enemy pistol troops have a better CTH than you, and annoyingly this is pretty damn obvious as you watch militia and them engage in combat, well beyond maximum range where you know the CTHis 1%, and they strike home every six or seventh shot.

It's kinda detracting from my enjoyment of the game. I hate it when games use this kind of lazy balancing... well, there is a suggestion that CTH may be broken, but I hope they can fix it.

I was trying the SVN build (911) and their seems to be new behaviour allowing troops from one town sector to "wander" into a fallen sector to see what's happened. Not sure if I like it, you pretty much finish one fight and another one kicks off.

I also got a chance to fight off a Drassen counter-attack (separate game from the AAR). It was raining, which ended up working great for me because I could lure the enemy into death zones, and almost none of them (including elites) had any armour, so I was able to head-shot with hollow point and glazer ammo using usually one shot per man. It went really well until I tried to reposition the troops and made my usual hash of it.

I also found that Drassen mine is easier to defend than most due to a large portion of the South being cliff, and you know they're not coming from the North, so you can setup some good firing positions.

So there's hope yet.

Still, I'm going to pray for rain.

[Skeptic]

Well I guess I'll start over then. So I don't have to install the 1.12 patch after all? Everything seemed to work OK without doing so.

The 1.12 patch is ONLY if you bought the JA2 Wildfire/Gold edition by Strategy First(and it may not even be needed even IF you own this for all I know). The 1.13 mod contains all of the 1.12 stuff for those of us who use the original JA2(1.07 i think) patched.

As for the 'ini' files and such...

the "Enemies Drop All..." option is not an ini file thing. it is a checkbox within the in-game options screen. There are TWO different 'ini' files located in your JA2 directory and the one you want to edit(IF you want to change some of the 1.13 options such as Drassen counter-attack or weather/rain visibility etc.) is the one within the "Data-1.13" folder. It is simple to edit. Just "True" and "False" stuff and numbers/percentages.


@Quitch : I agree that the 'Hold up everyone in a bottlenecked room' strategy for the counter-attack is cheesy but the only reason I suggested it is because you are in VERY dire straits. I also agree with you that the counter-attack option is geared too much towards those bored vets(well, that would include me except I have never been bored by JA2 and there are a thousand ways to make the game more challenging even before 1.13) who were clamouring for a 'ridiculous challenge'. They went WAYYY overboard with it though. I found that I could beat it, even without using cheesy strategies but it just does not add much FUN IMO. Turned the game into 'work'(like inserting a string theory equation into a RPG might make it more challenging but more 'Meh').
Plus, as you said, after you beat that it makes the rest of the game less fun. Like you are almost ready for Meduna after Drassen or something.

[Skeptic]

I away over the weekend but had a few games over at a friends. One thing is beginning to irk me greatly... the enemy cheat in the early game. I actually confirmed this at the 1.13 forums, it seems that in the early part of the game the enemy pistol troops have a better CTH than you, and annoyingly this is pretty damn obvious as you watch militia and them engage in combat, well beyond maximum range where you know the CTHis 1%, and they strike home every six or seventh shot.

Yeah I know but I think this is a holdover from the old JA2(before the 1.13 AI improvements) code. The thing that bugs me about it is that I can have Scope take a shot using a 38. revolver from 36 tiles away and she will miss every time but these starting redshirts will nail me and my militia members from even greater distance with all manner of crappy pistols in the beginning.

It's kinda detracting from my enjoyment of the game. I hate it when games use this kind of lazy balancing... well, there is a suggestion that CTH may be broken, but I hope they can fix it.

I was trying the SVN build (911) and their seems to be new behaviour allowing troops from one town sector to "wander" into a fallen sector to see what's happened. Not sure if I like it, you pretty much finish one fight and another one kicks off.

I keep wanting to use an SVN build but so much work just to get an update...*sigh*. I used to use Lalien's test build exe's from HERE which go up to build 933 now but I am not sure if those work just to replace the JA2-1.13 exe as is or if I am screwing something up by not having some files from the official(SVN) update or what or if these exe's are just for people who already have the newest compiled and need a replacement exe or something. Confusing crap.

I also got a chance to fight off a Drassen counter-attack (separate game from the AAR). It was raining, which ended up working great for me because I could lure the enemy into death zones, and almost none of them (including elites) had any armour, so I was able to head-shot with hollow point and glazer ammo using usually one shot per man. It went really well until I tried to reposition the troops and made my usual hash of it.

I also found that Drassen mine is easier to defend than most due to a large portion of the South being cliff, and you know they're not coming from the North, so you can setup some good firing positions.

So there's hope yet.

Still, I'm going to pray for rain.

Good luck. Usually I wait until a sector is cleared before I grab the loot at all but this is one of those cases where I would be looking for the first decent rifle or MG to drop off an enemy and send someone to grab it for Buns. Do you use the default percentages for rain chance and visibility?

[Jeff Lackey]

Started up a new game, using JA2 Gold (boxed) and 1.13 + the .933 build. Man, this has pulled me away from my Oblivion career, which had pulled me away from everything else.

I started with an IMP - which is obviously the "player character" - with stealth and night ops. Hired Lynx, who I love, he can nail the eyes out of a housefly from 100 yards. And Spider, who is a good medic and a good shot. Plus Ira. After clearing out Drassen, I picked up Gasket for cheap from MERC, as I needed someone who could serve as our mechanic/lockpicker. He's fun, but dumb as a rock and can't shoot worth a toot, but I like him.

We're armed up pretty well, found skyrider, cleared out the SAM site. But heading to Cambria to get the second mine, we made the mistake of running into the Hicks. No spoilers, but after getting wasted a couple of times and reloading, I decided to save them for later. Cleared out the first Cambria town square, but the second one is giving me a huge challenge - well armed, well armored enemy, and a ton of them. In the middle of the battle with my IMP guy on the roof and Lynx picking people off, but we're about to be overwhelmed. Need a quick in-battle change of tactics to save the day.

What a great, great game. Easily more addictive than the majority of games on the shelves today.

[Quitch]

@Quitch : I agree that the 'Hold up everyone in a bottlenecked room' strategy for the counter-attack is cheesy but the only reason I suggested it is because you are in VERY dire straits. I also agree with you that the counter-attack option is geared too much towards those bored vets(well, that would include me except I have never been bored by JA2 and there are a thousand ways to make the game more challenging even before 1.13) who were clamouring for a 'ridiculous challenge'. They went WAYYY overboard with it though. I found that I could beat it, even without using cheesy strategies but it just does not add much FUN IMO. Turned the game into 'work'(like inserting a string theory equation into a RPG might make it more challenging but more 'Meh').
Plus, as you said, after you beat that it makes the rest of the game less fun. Like you are almost ready for Meduna after Drassen or something.

I intend to go down fighting or pull off a miracle

This will probably be my last time with the counter-attack, I just wanted to see it on Expert. Unfortunately it demands of you a perfect game leading up to it, and really you have to plan your entire game around it... it's not a 1.13 event though, it's from the original game, it was just disabled. In fact, many such "disabled" features are simply switched on by 1.13. Another one of these settings I will likely be disabling is the ability of enemies to wander in to investigate silence from a sector, since it just means you get an immediate second battle once you've won the first and it feels pointless.

In my novice game I beat the counter-attack, pumped out militia, took Cambria without breaking a sweat, then assaulted Meduna with an enormous militia force who I ordered in ahead of me. I stopped playing at that point because I was skipping half the game.

However, I'm fine tuning the options because some of them just aren't fun. Also tried without "Enemy Drop All", but it didn't agree with me.

Yeah I know but I think this is a holdover from the old JA2(before the 1.13 AI improvements) code. The thing that bugs me about it is that I can have Scope take a shot using a 38. revolver from 36 tiles away and she will miss every time but these starting redshirts will nail me and my militia members from even greater distance with all manner of crappy pistols in the beginning.

Oh yeah, it is, but I've played the opening game quite a bit now and it's becoming dreadfully obvious, and it sucks all the fun out of the pistol duels because you have to spend all your time ambushing because your mercs can't stand up in a gun fight.

I keep wanting to use an SVN build but so much work just to get an update...*sigh*. I used to use Lalien's test build exe's from HERE which go up to build 933 now but I am not sure if those work just to replace the JA2-1.13 exe as is or if I am screwing something up by not having some files from the official(SVN) update or what or if these exe's are just for people who already have the newest compiled and need a replacement exe or something. Confusing crap.

SVN isn't that hard, but I already has TortoiseSVN installed for something else I'm doing.

Good luck. Usually I wait until a sector is cleared before I grab the loot at all but this is one of those cases where I would be looking for the first decent rifle or MG to drop off an enemy and send someone to grab it for Buns. Do you use the default percentages for rain chance and visibility?

My experience from the last game has taught me that stepping out might be a mistake, better to put myself in positions where I get LOS after they walk past, but we'll see. In good weather I don't fancy my chances.

Yep, using the defaults.

[Jeff Lackey]

RE: SVN - I read all about that over on The Bear Pit, and was getting a headache, but all I've done is install 1.13, the first build update, and then I go to the web site that has all the newer build updates. It appears that the new updates don't really "install", you just download, say, the .933en exe and put it in your JA2 folder and run it. I may be missing all kinds of things by doing it that way vs. the whole SVN thing, but it appears to work.

[Quitch]

Well you can do their SVN, checkout, copy method... but to me that defeats the point of SVN. I installed JA2, renamed the folder, created a new folder with the JA2 name, used checkout on it, then copied back the original files directory by directory choosing not to overwrite anything. Voila! SVN as it should be, I can now update at will.

[Massena]

So what happened, huh? Did they wipe you out? Were there futile, but heroic, escapades? Inquiring minds need to know.

[Quitch]

I've been off sick with a cold this week so haven't ventured to try yet

[Skeptic]

RE: SVN - I read all about that over on The Bear Pit, and was getting a headache, but all I've done is install 1.13, the first build update, and then I go to the web site that has all the newer build updates. It appears that the new updates don't really "install", you just download, say, the .933en exe and put it in your JA2 folder and run it. I may be missing all kinds of things by doing it that way vs. the whole SVN thing, but it appears to work.

SVN is actually WAY easier than it seems. I put it off for ages myself but I went ahead and did it a few days ago. You just have to remember to set your folder viewing options to show "hidden" folders, before you get to the step(from Marlboro man's "How to" guide at Bear's Pit) about moving the files over to your JA2 folder..

Easy to update as well and everything is working pretty smoothly. The only snags I have run into are bugs that have existed since the release of vanilla JA2(tiles being 'painted' over the map as you scroll with the mouse in some sectors like the Cambria hospital and such.). Who knows when the 1.13 guys will get around to those...assuming they can be fixed at all *shrug*

[Skeptic]

double post

[hidde]

Hi, this AAR seems to have run out of steam but I just have to post and give a heartfelt thank you to Quitch. For months every game I started felt mediocre and I soon lost interest. I have had JA2 since it came out. Started twice but gotten sidetracked both times. After reading the AAR and the rest of the posts here I decided to give the game a second (third) chance.
Boy, am I glad I did! It's been far too long since I was in gaming nirvana like this.
Must show a picture from after a brutal fight during night. I was defending almost the whole time from the marked area. Lucky me that the bad guys didn't try grenades more than one(maybe two) times.

[/img]
A couple more bandits was taken care of outside the picture.
As I'm getting older I'm afraid that I am more and more coming to the conclusion that as far as it concern gaming, it was better in the good old days
Seriously, I'm only half joking; after this I plan to try out Privateer Gemini Gold. I'm confident it's going to be a blast.
Thanks to all OO:ers for making this place a goldmine when it comes to finding the best games to play.

[Jeff Lackey]

I have been playing JA2 with the 1.13 mod for a couple of months now, and I'm as addicted as I've ever been to any game. I have to be careful, because I'm living away from home at the moment (wife is trying to sell the house in Naperville, IL while I'm living temporarily in a room in Kansas City where I've taken a new job) and when I get home from work, if I start up my JA2 campaign I can end up playing until wayyyyy too late.

Got a 6 merc team, picked up Ira and Dynamo as my two freebie RPCs, Spider, Trevor, and "me" (the IMP.) I've tried not to use reload much at all, but this time through I am using it if I get someone on the team killed. Next play through, no reload - if someone gets killed, that's just war (and if my IMP gets killed, since that's "me", its game over and start again.) Playing on easy, which is NOT easy, allowed Bobby Ray to have a decent amount of guns. Things started pretty tough, took Drassen and the airport first (though some suggest saving that for later to get the better mines and their cash earlier) and found Skyrider, though I didn't start using him until later in the game.

Lots of memorable moments. Sent the crushed black roses to Deidiranna, that is fun. I killed Kingpen and all of his thugs in Santa Mona, just because it felt like the right thing to do. Finally got all the parts for the xray/motion detector, gotta see how well that works. We've got everything but Meduna, so that's next.

Great, great game. Got more soul and class than 90% of what's on the shelves today. Want to look at the mods now and see if any of those are worth playing.

[Jeff Lackey]

Back from a trip to Spain, more time to play now. First venture into Meduna. Hmm, just a couple of bad guys so far. Not bad at all. Then - HOLY CRAP! TANKS????!?!?!? Everything I have is just bouncing off of them. In the famous words of some famous knights of lore: Run away! Run away!!!!

[hidde]

A spoiler-warning might have been in order.
HOLY CRAP!... well, sure aint gonna be a holy-crap moment for me when I get there, thank you very much.

[JohnnyFive]

Well, to be fair, the game has been out almost, what, 8 years?

[hidde]

HOLY CRAP! TANKS????!?!?!?

Seems like a surprise for him. Shouldn't be hard to imagine it coming as a surprise for someone else.
I don't to sound too grumpy but I almost never replay a game. I really like not knowing what's coming next.

[Quitch]

I ran into those in one of my games... promptly blew it up with a LAW dropped by the enemy. It was one of those "gaming moments"

Sorry about the AAR, just couldn't enthuse for that last battle.

[Shinjin]

Um. You are reading an AAR and somehow *not* expecting spoilers?

[Jeff Lackey]

Um. You are reading an AAR and somehow *not* expecting spoilers?

Yeah, sorry, but I assumed anyone reading an AAR thread would expect that everything would be revealed in that thread.

I guess I shouldn't mention the firebreathing dragons that came down and saved our rears...

[The Meal]

Um. You are reading an AAR and somehow *not* expecting spoilers?

Yeah, sorry, but I assumed anyone reading an AAR thread would expect that everything would be revealed in that thread.

An extremely reasonable assumption, IMO.

Sorry about the AAR, just couldn't enthuse for that last battle.

You could make it up to us by starting over again.

Thanks for giving us as much as you did. It was a fun ride. I'd go out of my way to read future AARs of yours.

~Neal

[hidde]

sorry, but I assumed anyone reading an AAR thread would expect that everything would be revealed in that thread.

Sorry, but then why this quote from you earlier in this thread?

No spoilers, but after getting wasted a couple of times and reloading, I decided to save them for later.

I belive there is a difference in discussion of tactics and revealing the existence of a big surprise, "gaming moment" in Quitch words. I also, perhaps misstakenly, somehow saw this thread as gone from AAR to a more general disscussion.

[Quitch]

You could make it up to us by starting over again.

I'm actually planning another run (without AAR I fear ), but this time I'm gonna switch off counter-attack, reinforcements, investigation, wandering militia... IMO all these things detract from the core tactical gameplay. Once 20 militia enter a sector, you simply don't need to be there.

[Skeptic]

You could make it up to us by starting over again.

I'm actually planning another run (without AAR I fear ), but this time I'm gonna switch off counter-attack, reinforcements, investigation, wandering militia... IMO all these things detract from the core tactical gameplay. Once 20 militia enter a sector, you simply don't need to be there.

BTW, what were you using to take screen shots for your AAR? I am assuming you played in windowed mode so you could paste from the clipboard without having to exit the game?
Just curious because in the build I am using you cannot use the "prt Scrn" key for screen shots. it causes a major crash from which you have to manually reboot(Overhaul is working on fixing this though).

I am about to charge into Meduna soon but I am having so much fun that I might just dink around clearing randoms sectors for the Hell of it before I go into Meduna.

[Jeff Lackey]

I've taken the Meduna SAM site and I'm in the middle of trying to take the airport. I think there's one starting location for the SAM site that makes it possible with a crew of 6 (which is all I'm using) and many that make it almost impossible. Even on easy, you're way outnumbered, and they know how to use mortars, grendades, etc.

I have refused to fire my two pick up mercs in order to hire top Mercs to help - I just feel that Ira and Dynamo have come this far with the team, they deserve to be there for the end. Kudos to the game for being able to produce those kind of RPG feelings vs. purely trying to win mechanics.

In reviewing the game so far, no one should feel bad about using the "Easy" setting. At that setting (with the 1.13 mod) I've had the AI flank me, sneak behind me, snipe from rooftops and then back up to avoid counterfire, and more. I think the setting that probably helped me the most was allowing Bobby Rays to sell good guns relatively early in the game. It meant that halfway through the game I had some pretty good sniper rifles (though ammo is always short) and other cool stuff. It did take away some of the excitement of finding a good gun on dead enemy later in the game.

OK - back to Meduna. I'm very close to losing this battle badly!

[Skeptic]

I've taken the Meduna SAM site and I'm in the middle of trying to take the airport. I think there's one starting location for the SAM site that makes it possible with a crew of 6 (which is all I'm using) and many that make it almost impossible. Even on easy, you're way outnumbered, and they know how to use mortars, grendades, etc.

Yeah I not only cannot have less than the full 18 mercs but I even wish this limit was increased a bit to allow for 21 mercs, with squads of up to 8 in size(one modder has already increased the squad limit to 10 I believe but that is only for a specific mod...maybe it was Wildfire for all I remember). Props to you for managing with only 6.

I have refused to fire my two pick up mercs in order to hire top Mercs to help - I just feel that Ira and Dynamo have come this far with the team, they deserve to be there for the end. Kudos to the game for being able to produce those kind of RPG feelings vs. purely trying to win mechanics.

Agreed...except I always leave Dynamo to go back to Alma or whatever since I prefer Maddog(lockpicking expert also with better stats and more personality). I tend to keep whomever I spent most of the game with as well. For my current game this means I have stuck with Razor, Raven, Ira, Maddog, Dimitri etc. By the time you get Dynamo in most games he is pretty worthless unless you desperately need a lock picker. His wisdom is ok but it is much too late by then to really put the effort in to make Dynamo worth using. His strength is too low for him to carry the toolbox + any gun worth carrying(Maddog's strength is somewhat pedestrian as well(but no where near as bad as Dynamo's) but I get him shortly after taking my first or second town and will have raised it to 78-80 or so by the time I reach Dynamo, without using exploits or cheats).
It would be different if Dynamo had some cool dialog or I was into the whole 'role playing' thing(as opposed to "role playing GAMING" which is different) but he just bores me on top of being piss-poor stat-wise.

In reviewing the game so far, no one should feel bad about using the "Easy" setting. At that setting (with the 1.13 mod) I've had the AI flank me, sneak behind me, snipe from rooftops and then back up to avoid counterfire, and more.

Yeah the new AI kicks ass in 1.13. I cannot bring myself to play on "easy" anymore and have not since my very first time playing JA2 but that is just me. I also never play on "Insane" difficulty because that makes the game less fun for me and more like something I have to do to prove I can do it. I do not find the harder difficulties(I play on experienced mostly...occasionally expert) to actually be more 'challenging', just more tedious and work-like.

I think the setting that probably helped me the most was allowing Bobby Rays to sell good guns relatively early in the game. It meant that halfway through the game I had some pretty good sniper rifles (though ammo is always short) and other cool stuff. It did take away some of the excitement of finding a good gun on dead enemy later in the game.

Agreed. Next game I start up I think I will use different settings. I will make BR's not have "good" stuff early, will play in "Iron man" mode, on "expert", with the Drassen counter-attack on and with all M.E.R.C. guys available early on. Even though really BR's did not spoil me much since it is always nice to find a kick-ass gun that you don't have to pay thousands of dollars for and I only set BR's to "good" anyway(not "great").

OK - back to Meduna. I'm very close to losing this battle badly!

I am still dinking around, finishing quests I forgot about(re: the bloodcats near Alma) and such before I go into Meduna. Odd thing about this game is that I have not seen Hamous & the ice cream truck at all, the whole game. Not that I wanted or needed that anyway.

[Jeff Lackey]

Yeah, I will probably finish this game without having done a number of quests, including the bloodcat quest (I HATE getting ambushed by those #%^%#s) and haven't seen the Hummer or Ice Cream Truck. More to do next game. Looks like I'll probably finish with my 6, thought it will take more than a couple of reloads. I've got "me", Lynx, Spider, Trevor, Ira and Dynamo. I'll try a different group next time.

So far I've got the SAM site and just took the airport. Still not enough to train militia here, so I suspect keeping them while I try to take the rest of Meduna will be difficult.

[Quitch]

You could make it up to us by starting over again.

I'm actually planning another run (without AAR I fear ), but this time I'm gonna switch off counter-attack, reinforcements, investigation, wandering militia... IMO all these things detract from the core tactical gameplay. Once 20 militia enter a sector, you simply don't need to be there.

BTW, what were you using to take screen shots for your AAR? I am assuming you played in windowed mode so you could paste from the clipboard without having to exit the game?
Just curious because in the build I am using you cannot use the "prt Scrn" key for screen shots. it causes a major crash from which you have to manually reboot(Overhaul is working on fixing this though).

I am about to charge into Meduna soon but I am having so much fun that I might just dink around clearing randoms sectors for the Hell of it before I go into Meduna.

FRAPS. I own a licensed copy.

[Kasey Chang]

FYI, I used Hyperionic's HyperSnap for my AARs previously. Have to turn on the DirectX mode, then it works great. Even turned on "timed capture mode" for Silent Storm, as it works great if I go for one every two minutes or so. I can never remember to take a shot of my events.

[Jeff Lackey]

Well, I just finished it. Deidrianna is dead. Very nice ending, and while Dynamo isn't the greatest merc, his little endgame comment was the nicest of all the team's epilogues.

Interestingly, killing the queen was kind of anti-climatic. I took the alternate route of getting to her (you can storm the castle directly, or take the hidden route) and once I got in the castle, I killed the first dude, found her throne room and took her out with one major sniper gun shot to the head. (Loved her dying comment!) But again, nice ending, nice touches including the chopper ride out.

That was a blast. Did it with 6 mercs, used the same team all the way through (once I could afford Lynx and Trevor - Lynx is pretty awesome.) Now I need to decide if I want to play again with a different team, or try one of the mods.