Borderlands..FPS/RPG/4 player co-op..Diablo meets Mad Max

[Blackhawk]

How much will ammo be limiting? I'm used to Fallout. The faster gunplay in Borderlands makes me worry that I'm going to run out of ammo. So far it hasn't happened but I'm also search obsessively for ammo. Can I dial back the OCD collecting or do I need it.

Also, do chest have completely random loot or is it based on location?

Early on you may need to carry a backup weapon that uses and alternate type of ammo. Later on you'll get options, including skills and/or items that regenerate ammo. I used to carry one rifle with high ammo regen that I'd seriously outleveled, then just switch to it whenever I wasn't in active combat.

[stessier]

I finally killed Dr. Ned. I didn't find the Brains quest until after doing everything else and was quite annoyed at the number of brains required.

So now I'm trying to give the Vault Key to Tannis. I found her, but the mission is already completed - it is grayed out in the list, but the Vault Key box is checked in my HUD. Playthrough 2.5 is not available (that I can see - I'm assuming the game starts completely over).

Any ideas?

[Blackhawk]

2.5 isn't a new run. 2.5 refers to what happens when you enter the vault during playthrough 2. All of the creatures and quests get bumped up to maximum level (around 50), but no new content is added. A lot of people who do the end-game stuff leave specific quests (like King Tossing) until 2.5 in order to get the max level versions of the gear they drop.

[KDH]

I finally killed Dr. Ned. I didn't find the Brains quest until after doing everything else and was quite annoyed at the number of brains required.

So .. I haven't done any of the DLC yet (I never know when, so I leave it for last) .. and with regards to the above question\statement:

1) .. I've noticed what can only be Brainz flying out of my victims and bouncing around ... Should I do the Dr. Ned DLC to avoid being "annoyed at the number of Brainz required" ... I mean, a Mind is a terrible thing to waste

2) .. Or am I letting my imagination run away with me



Feel free to spoil me if you feel it is necessary



Having a blast with this, as Lilith and Brick

[Blackhawk]

So .. I haven't done any of the DLC yet (I never know when, so I leave it for last)

The general wisdom is to leave it not just for last, but for last after the second playthrough (assuming you're doing both.) Doing it after the first playthrough levels you so much that the second playthrough isn't much fun - nothing is a threat.

1) .. I've noticed what can only be Brainz flying out of my victims and bouncing around ... Should I do the Dr. Ned DLC to avoid being "annoyed at the number of Brainz required" ... I mean, a Mind is a terrible thing to waste

2) .. Or am I letting my imagination run away with me

I'm a little confused - where are you finding brains? if you aren't doing the Ned DLC, there aren't supposed to be any brains. Are you sure you didn't start it by accident?

[Scuzz]

So I have played the Borderlands games on XBox with my daughter and they were a lot of fun. How do they play as solo games? We had trouble with some areas so I assume the game must be slightly different in a solo mode?

[stessier]

2.5 isn't a new run. 2.5 refers to what happens when you enter the vault during playthrough 2. All of the creatures and quests get bumped up to maximum level (around 50), but no new content is added. A lot of people who do the end-game stuff leave specific quests (like King Tossing) until 2.5 in order to get the max level versions of the gear they drop.

Ahhhhh, thank you. That explains it then. Wish I had saved some missions.

[GreenGoo]

So I have played the Borderlands games on XBox with my daughter and they were a lot of fun. How do they play as solo games? We had trouble with some areas so I assume the game must be slightly different in a solo mode?

I played solo almost exclusively, although I did do multiple playthroughs with 3 other OO'ers which was a blast. I played so much solo that even the group play was in the minority, despite being several completions of the game.

Personally, I love the game. Sure having other people adds to the fun, but solo you can experiment with builds and weapon types and whatnot and not have to worry about keeping up with the rest of the group. Solo you might spend too much time on certain weapon types, and that means that some encounters might be tougher because other weapons would be better, but I don't recall having much trouble anywhere in the game, but if you do, you can always just grind out a level or two, slaughtering bad guys until you're ready to progress on the main quest again.

The short version is that I played hundreds of hours solo, and loved every minute of it.

[Blackhawk]

I've played a significant amount solo. It is still great. The enemies scale based on group size, so something you were having trouble with with two players can actually be easier with one. On a PC you get the advantage of a tighter control scheme, too.

2.5 isn't a new run. 2.5 refers to what happens when you enter the vault during playthrough 2. All of the creatures and quests get bumped up to maximum level (around 50), but no new content is added. A lot of people who do the end-game stuff leave specific quests (like King Tossing) until 2.5 in order to get the max level versions of the gear they drop.

Ahhhhh, thank you. That explains it then. Wish I had saved some missions.

There are lists out there that give the specific missions that give good end-game gear if you save them. The secret, though, is to not accept the quest until 2.5, as currently held quests don't scale.

[KDH]

I'm a little confused - where are you finding brains? if you aren't doing the Ned DLC, there aren't supposed to be any brains. Are you sure you didn't start it by accident?

Well, I don't know what the Brainz look like in the DLC, but a round object flies out of my hapless human hemorrhagers and bounces around (in Old Haven, for example) .. so, I was figuring that, if the Brainz count was high (like, 1000 or more) I could be collecting them as I killed folk in my travels.


no worries .. It is probably just part of their dismembering list and an intern entered 100% in the proc chance instead of 1.00% chance


I just killed the Destroyer with Lilith and am looking for the MASSIVE pile of red loot containers that has to be around here somewhere .. has to be, dang'it

[stessier]

I think that might be a brain, but it's not one of the collectible Brainz. The collectible ones are only in the DLC and have a green trophy highlight to let you know you want to collect them. Collecting them before you start the mission, though, is meaningless - they don't count. And you have to find a lot of them - which you do in the normal course of completing the DLC...if you find the mission when you are supposed to.

[Blackhawk]

Usually what I do is, when I know I'm headed for that mission (I forget what it's called), I headshot all the zombies I can on the way, but don't pick up any brains. By the time I get there and get the mission there are enough brains lying around for the first three or four stages of it. I just have to go back and collect them.

[Hipolito]

I just finished this game. (I may be late to the party but there's still plenty of dip.) I'm retiring my Assasssin-Siren at level 45, having taken her through the main campaign and three of the four DLCs in Playthrough 1.

At first, I loved this RPG-shooter. I was drawn in by the great-looking postapocalyptic world of Pandora and the smooth, challenging gunplay. I enjoyed developing my Siren's skills and turning her into a devastating dervish. Though I usually used SMGs, I liked experimenting with the other gun types and discovering new favorites once in a while. This game had me thinking of Fallout a lot, and I think would enjoy Fallout games done Borderlands-style more than Bethesda-style.

Over time, my love for Borderlands flattened into like. Because the enemies' tactics and weapons didn't vary much, the gunplay got old. I grew tired of traveling all over the place to complete unexciting quests, especially in the DLCs which didn't have fast-travel options. I wanted more cool characters like Dr. Tannis and more lore than Scooter's weird family relations.

The part of the game I enjoyed most was Old Haven. In fact, Old Haven may be the most fun I've had in any shooter. This area introduced enemies that were tough, well-armed, well-armored, and not annoyingly hard to hit like the numerous bandits and psychos I'd been fighting up to that point. It was a lot of fun to blow these guys away with my corrosive weapons and pick up their valuable loot. Old Haven was filled with accessible rooftops and alleys, making it a breeze to dart from cover to elevation and engage in cat-and-mouse street fighting and sniper shooting. I've never played multiplayer shooters, but if this is what they're like, then I've been missing out. The side mission in Old Haven to extinguish the smoke signals was also cool because the map didn't show you exactly where the smoke signals were; you had to spot them from a distance and figure out how to reach them while under fire. I wish there were more quests like this which made you use your brains and your guns at the same time.

As for the DLCs, I enjoyed the Zombie one for featuring a very different type of enemy and being so Halloween-inspired. The Generally Hospital area, with its spooky hospital perched on a hill lined with graves and zombies, was a picture-perfect homage to old horror movies and an incredibly intense zombie battleground. The General Noxx DLC was tedious for all the driving that had to be done and had no interesting story or characters. The Claptrap DLC was better; it wasn't too long and had fun-to-fight bosses that cracked lots of wise. I didn't bother playing the Moxxi Underdome DLC except for making use of its bank.

I played a little of Playthrough 2 to see what it was like. It was neat how the enemies were not only tougher, they even looked tougher. But I'm not one to replay games, so I'll just move on to Borderlands 2 when I'm ready to return to Pandora.

[coopasonic]

Who's up for some coop?

I'm always some coop! Yah I said it.

Played through some of the n00b missions with my 3 year old son on my lap. I'm such a good dad.

I was looking through this thread since it was brought back up and noticed this post. That 3 year old son has gained 9 years since that post and has now played through all of Borderlands 2 and Borderlands: The Presequel with me in co-op.

[dbt1949]

A couple of weeks ago I tried this for the first time. Been in my library for many years. Put a few hours in it but never really enjoyed myself. Too retro maybe.
Oh well.

[Blackhawk]

I played a little of Playthrough 2 to see what it was like. It was neat how the enemies were not only tougher, they even looked tougher. But I'm not one to replay games, so I'll just move on to Borderlands 2 when I'm ready to return to Pandora.

FWIW (and this applies to BL2 as well), playthrough 2 is much better than playthrough 1. You sort of have to plan for it, though, or you become too overpowered to enjoy it. The usual advice for BL1 is do the first playthrough, only doing those sidequests that give interesting loot, or if you are a few levels below the 'recommended' for the main, and skip all the DLC. Then do the second playthrough doing whatever you like, and finish with the DLC.

Oh, and I always liked Old Haven the best of any part of the game.

In any case, BL2 is, in my opinion, superior in almost every way to BL1. The environments are more varied, the levels are better designed, and the story is better. There are a lot more cool characters (including the best in the series), although you do, indeed, find out a lot more about Scooter's weird family relations. But that's a good thing in BL2!

[GreenGoo]

Games like Diablo and Borderlands aren't completed when you get to the end the first time. The majority of the game design and effort is put into later playthroughs (sometimes called new game+ in other genres).

I get that many people aren't interested in playing the same content again with bigger guns, better drops and tougher enemies (often with entirely new abilities and ai) and that's fine. I'm not always interested either. Just understand that you've quit less than halfway through. No shame in that, I do it all the time with many games. I'm just under no illusion that I've actually "completed" those games.

Some people, and not inaccurately, describe the first playthrough of games of this type as the tutorial. If the tutorial didn't do it for you, or you're satisfied with your gaming experience after the tutorial, more power to you.

I realize it sounds like there is an implied criticism in my comments. There isn't. I just want to make it clear that these sorts of games are, by design, more interesting, challenging and exciting on the 2nd or 3rd or nth playthrough.

Separately, the borderlands series benefits greatly by playing it coop. They're ridiculously fun with friends.

[GreenGoo]

I was looking through this thread since it was brought back up and noticed this post. That 3 year old son has gained 9 years since that post and has now played through all of Borderlands 2 and Borderlands: The Presequel with me in co-op.

Cool beans.

[GreenGoo]

Over time, my love for Borderlands flattened into like. Because the enemies' tactics and weapons didn't vary much, the gunplay got old.

I just want to agree with this. Borderlands is not a modern day "shooter", the ai rarely does anything besides charge straight at you. But shooting is just the mechanic, it's an action RPG in first person. Action RPG's have traditionally been about character builds and loot, and Borderlands has both of those in abundance.

So I agree that the enemy ai is almost non-existent, but that shouldn't be an issue for most people as the fun is in using your overpowered character and weapons to obliterate the mobs in the millions.

It's Doom and Diablo spliced together.

[Hipolito]

FWIW (and this applies to BL2 as well), playthrough 2 is much better than playthrough 1. You sort of have to plan for it, though, or you become too overpowered to enjoy it. The usual advice for BL1 is do the first playthrough, only doing those sidequests that give interesting loot, or if you are a few levels below the 'recommended' for the main, and skip all the DLC. Then do the second playthrough doing whatever you like, and finish with the DLC.

Thanks for this advice. I may do this when I play BL2. It sounds reasonable to do a second playthrough when the first will just stick with the main questline.

I'm already agonizing over which character I'll be! I'm leaning toward Axton because he's medium/long-range and uses turrets, which would be a good change of pace from my melee/SMG-focused Lilith in BL1. But Gaige also sounds cool because of her crazy personality, killer robot pal, and ability to shoot bouncing bullets everywhere.

Some people, and not inaccurately, describe the first playthrough of games of this type as the tutorial. If the tutorial didn't do it for you, or you're satisfied with your gaming experience after the tutorial, more power to you.

I would be more inclined to replay a game if the replay featured new story elements that you couldn't get during the first playthrough, as in Nier. But for Borderlands 2, if my first playthrough is limited to the main quest as Blackhawk suggested, I could treat the second playthrough as "unlocking" the side quests and DLC as additional story elements.

[GreenGoo]

Yeah, there are plenty of people where the Diablo model doesn't work for them.

Since the success of Diablo, ARPG's have primarily been about murdering billions of mobs and seeing what they drop. Well, that and designing a cool character build where the murdering is the most fun and/or efficient. Story/setting/visuals (have been) are secondary.

Can and should the genre move past that? Probably. Hell, as far as I know it already has. But you're playing a game that is almost a decade old at this point.

[Blackhawk]

FWIW, BL1 tied characters to specific weapons. BL2 does not. Any character can use any weapon, although there are long-term advantages to specializing in a couple.

[GreenGoo]

FWIW, BL1 tied characters to specific weapons. BL2 does not. Any character can use any weapon, although there are long-term advantages to specializing in a couple.

And this is a significant change from BL to BL2. Using too many different weapon types can result in less than optimal performance. Are you going to notice? Probably not, unless you're a min/maxer. I typically am. I recall building a pure AR Roland. He never fired a single bullet from a weapon that wasn't an AR. Even though I was maximizing AR proficiency, I remember being mildly surprised at just how good he was near the level cap. It was even better than I expected. I had to sacrifice a LOT of inefficient play time at the lower levels though, due to poor AR drops. There were times when I was using white weapons because they were the best AR's I had.

I also had many characters that used a wide assortment of weapon types. They were completely fine as well.

[TheMix]

The way I played BL2, and the way I would likely do it again - not that that's possible, was to do all of the missions (or as close as I could get) on my first character, and my first run through the content. This did, however, make it much easier. But that was somewhat offset by not being aware of what was around every corner.

For my subsequent characters, I generally would just do the main story quests, and any quests that gave Eridium rewards or new heads/skins. I stick to that until the loot dropping from mobs was higher than I could use, or I found the content too difficult. Then I'd do some side quests to level. Since I knew the story and most of the quests, it was easier to know what could be skipped. (Plus, there are achievements for doing quests. If you are into those things.)

Generally, I saved the DLC for PT2. This does tend to make the main story quests a lot easier when you complete a DLC, but you do eventually catch up. It also breaks up the main story - giving some new content.

I would also add that PT3 is where the game gets REALLY interesting. Knowing the fights, planning ahead, using your weapons properly... all of that becomes significantly more important.

[Blackhawk]

What they both said. BL2 playthrough 1 is so easy to outlevel if you do everything. The second playthrough slows that down considerably.

The thing with the BL2 weapons, just for explanation: When you use a weapon in BL2, you gain a special type of 'experience points' with that weapon type that give bonuses . The more you use, say, pistols, the more bonuses you end up getting with pistols. I've found it is best to focus on a couple. Think of it this way: BL1 forced you into certain weapons based on the class you choose. BL2 still pushes you to specialize, but lets you choose what weapons you specialize in, which frees up character choices if you prefer to play a certain way.

[TheMix]

The thing with the BL2 weapons, just for explanation: When you use a weapon in BL2, you gain a special type of 'experience points' with that weapon type that give bonuses . The more you use, say, pistols, the more bonuses you end up getting with pistols.

Wait... what? I'm embarrassed to say that I've never heard of this. Is this something that's happening behind the scenes? I don't recall ever seeing any kind of weapon bonuses. I switch up my weapons all the time.

[Blackhawk]

Hell, I think I was mixing it up with BL1 that had the proficiency. I think the system was replaced with Badass Rank in BL2. I don't have either installed right now to check, sorry.

[TheMix]

Whew. That makes more sense. I was afraid I'd missed something. Which, considering how many hours I have in BL2 would have been terribly embarrassing.

Since I'm currently running through BL1... As you get kills with a weapon type in BL1, you gain levels with that type. Those levels give you things like increased damage, faster reload, better accuracy, etc. In addition, the BL1 classes tend to have 1 or 2 skills that will favor a specific weapon type. But if you aren't going to use those skills, that part is somewhat moot. Though you can also get class mods for those specific types, making it useful to focus even if you don't grab the skill.

In BL2 you have the more generic BA ranks. With those you can boost general performance by small %s. Things like shield recharge, melee damage, accuracy, etc. Additionally, the classes generally have a lot more skills that benefit specific weapons.

So in BL1, you usually limit your weapon selections mostly due to the weapon leveling, with an occasional benefit from skills or class mods.

In BL2, you may end up limiting your weapon selection due to class skills or mods. Though the nice thing is that you can respec at any time and pick up a different weapon type without penalties.

[stessier]

Hell, I think I was mixing it up with BL1 that had the proficiency. I think the system was replaced with Badass Rank in BL2. I don't have either installed right now to check, sorry.

Yeah, you had them backward. BL1 was a "use to improve" system. BL2 it doesn't matter.

[TheMix]

The thing driving me the most crazy in BL1 is having to manually pick up money and ammo. Especially when driving. Most of the time now we just don't bother.

[GreenGoo]

Yep, manually clicking on money is archaic design. I'm not sure any modern ARPG still has that requirement, although some make it configurable, I think.

[Hipolito]

I would also add that PT3 is where the game gets REALLY interesting. Knowing the fights, planning ahead, using your weapons properly... all of that becomes significantly more important.

Playthough 3 ... is this that "UVHM" and "OP8" I've been reading about?

[TheMix]

I would also add that PT3 is where the game gets REALLY interesting. Knowing the fights, planning ahead, using your weapons properly... all of that becomes significantly more important.

Playthough 3 ... is this that "UVHM" and "OP8" I've been reading about?

Yes. And no.

True Vault Hunter Mode = Playthrough 2
Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode = Playthrough 3

The OverPower(?) levels come after. Once you hit level 71, you can then work on the OP levels. You have to successfully complete Digistruck Peak to increase the OP level.

As a really rough indicator (since I only finished PT3 on 1, maybe 2 characters)...
At the end of PT1, you should be around level 30. You can do it at 27/28... maybe. If you have good weapons. I usually shoot for 28-29 before heading off to tackle the last mission.
At the end of PT2, you'll probably be around level 50.
At the end of PT3, I think I was maybe in the mid-60s. So to hit the level cap, you'll be doing a lot of side missions and DLC.

Oh, and Digistruck Peak is a pain solo. If you die, you have to start completely over. Definitely better to run with company so that you can avoid that "total party wipe", hopefully.

[Blackhawk]

Since the release of Borderlands GOTY Enhanced, I figure we have at least a few people who have never played, or never played much. I thought it would be handy to give a couple of important pointers to save you some headaches. Borderlands 1 is a great game, but it has a few mechanics and design decisions that aren't immediately obvious, and can have a big effect on gameplay.

1. Borderlands was designed based on the assumption that you'd play through twice. It isn't until the second run with the same character that things really kick off. The tough enemies appear. The really impressive loot starts to drop. It's a lot like Diablo in that regard. You can play it through once on normal, but you'll just be experiencing the intro.

2. One flaw is that it is extremely easy to break BL1 on the first playthrough. Areas are leveled, and when you start something, everything's level is set in playthough 1, and scaled in playthough 2, but within a range limit. The range of playthrough 1 maxes out at 30. If you do everything in PT1, you'll end up in the mid 40s before you finish and will be one-shotting everything. You will then start playthrough 2 already overleveled. You can find elaborate guides on what to do and not to do, but don't worry about that. If you just want to have fun, here's the formula:

A: Do playthrough 1*. Skip all of the DLC (don't travel to Jakob's Cove, T-Bone Junction, or Tartarus Station.) You can travel to Moxxi's, as it doesn't set the level, and it gives you access to your bank.
B: Do playthough 2.
C: Do the DLC in order (Jakob's Cove, T-Bone Junction, Tartarus Station)

* For playthrough 1, all you have to do is watch the main quest. If the level is above you, do a side mission or two until you catch up. If you're higher than the main quest, don't do the extra stuff unless the reward is something you absolutely must have. This does not apply to the second playthrough. Note that quest rewards are scaled to your level, within a range, when you accept the quest, not when you turn it in.

3. You'll see references to playthrough 1 (PT1), PT2, and PT 2.5. PT2.5 is just what happens when you beat the final boss in playthrough 2: All of the enemies in the world get scaled to your level, as do all rewards on unaccepted quests. There are a couple of raids - super hard bosses that drop amazing loot - at the end. If you are interested in this kind of thing, read up on PT2.5, as you can give yourself a real edge by making sure you skip certain quests until then to get the highest level version of the reward.

4. BL1 has a weapon proficiency system. As you use a type of weapon (SMG, sniper rifle, etc), you gain a special type of experience with that weapon type (note - I believe in BL1 you can see the weapon type by looking at the Claptrap in the corner of the weapon card.) As you level up your proficiency, you'll get bonuses with that kind of weapon. The bonuses are significant. At level 100 with a weapon, you'll have +48% damage, +153% accuracy, +102% reload speed, and so on. It is absolutely worth it to pick one or two types of weapons and stick with them throughout the game.

In addition, each character has skills that support certain weapon types:

Lilith: SMGs (especially those with elemental damage)
Mordecai: sniper rifles and pistols
Roland: combat rifles and shotguns
Brick: heavy weapons

You don't have to use a character's preferred weapon type, but if you don't, you'll find that many of your skills don't operate. IE - only Mordecai has skills that affect sniper rifles and pistols, and many of his skills do nothing if you're not wielding one of those weapon types.

Finally, there is one last weapon type: Eridian. They all have Eridian in the name, and they're extremely rare. Be careful here. There is an Eridian sniper rifle, an Eridian pistol, and Eridian SMG, and every other weapon type. The thing is that they are their own, separate proficiency. If you are playing Lilith and building SMG proficiency, then find an Eridian SMG, when you finally replace it, you will have gained a bunch of Eridian proficiency, but no SMG proficiency. And they're rare enough that you won't find enough to play through much of the game with them. I've played through eight or nine times and have saved every Eridian I've found. I'm only now reaching a point where I have enough to consider an Eridian-only playthrough.

[Baroquen]

I've never really understood the multiple playthrough game design. I'm lucky if I make it through a game once. And with a huge backlog, I'd rather play something new than the same thing again for 'loot of a different color' or 'super-duper' bad guy #23. (Yeah, I know it's a popular way to game though).

Now get off my lawn you whippersnappers.

[Blackhawk]

It isn't suitable for all games. The only games it really works for are those where the main gameplay loop is about building your character and becoming steadily stronger, like through skill points and gear. When that's the case, the game really starts at level 1, and ends when you hit whatever ending level you decide on (or the game caps you at.) Sometimes the content gets you through all the gameplay. Sometimes you repeat part of the content.

The Division (or any MMO) might be a good example. You hit the level cap, then do repeated (or near-repeated) content to become more powerful. It's the excitement of unlocking a new ability or getting an amazing new piece of gear that drives you, not the content itself, which is more of a framework to kill things around.