Disciples II knocks WoW out and warning doesn't sleep

[Elmo]

Playing the tutorial that comes with the demo. I'm not getting that "one more turn" feeling yet. Combat seems almost rote. No maneuver, the hackers hack, and the casters cast. Haven't figured out if there is a choice of spells to use in combat or how to choose if there is. I hope there is a lot more to the game that I don't understand yet.

Is the tutorial representative of the full game? Thanks.

[slackerjoe]

I love Disciples II, got one of the expansions a while back too. I think SF is releasing a "Gold" Edition with the original and all the expansions. It will be mine.

Gentlemen, the gold edition has been out since February...

@ Amazon.com

Also, Stardock has had the "Ultimate" edition out for about a year, which is the one I have, and at $19 it is a good deal.

http://totalgaming.stardock.com/games/?id=DC2DP

edited to shorten the length of the Amazon link. CD

Does the Ultimate Edition have the original game, Dark Prophecy, included? It's not clear from that webpage.

[Elmo]

Does the Ultimate Edition have the original game, Dark Prophecy, included? It's not clear from that webpage.

I asked at Totalgaming.net and got an unofficial answer that the two editions are the same.

[Peacedog]

No maneuver, the hackers hack, and the casters cast.

That's how it's supposed to work.

You do target enemies, and this can be important. However, your group's performance in battle is very much dictated by how you've composed the group. That's the point. It's much like the old SNES Ogre Battle in this regard (albeit with fewer choices on the composition front, OTOH, there's more to do with the leader characters in Disciples II).

I never played the tutorial, nor the demo, but I can't imagine it not being representative of the game.

[msurby]

The game is *much* better than the tutorial. There is quite a bit of fun to be had here. The odds are heavily stacked against you during most scenarios and you will mostly get your ass kicked until you get used to the mechanics of play. The key to the early part of the game is farming the monsters for exp and loot to build up you army so that you will stand a chance against a couple nasty AI stacks. Spells and scrolls are only used *outside* of combat, so you generally use them to buff/debuff before a fight. Orbs can cast spells during a fight but your leader must have the ability and it must be equipped. In combat, the warriors are really meat shields that protect your ranged units. Good ranged units are key because they can target any location and the baddies will frequently have nasties back there. Plus, the ranged units usually have the best special attacks. Unlike Peacedog, I am an armor whore and I like to get as much as possible. This is mostly due to my desire to take down capitol guardians for massive experience ASAP.

The story is pretty cool and is actually played out four different ways as you play the four factions. I would recommend giving the game more of a shot before giving up. Once you beat a real scenario and see the story progress I bet you will get sucked in.

[Elmo]

The game is *much* better than the tutorial....

That was my hope.

Spells and scrolls are only used *outside* of combat, so you generally use them to buff/debuff before a fight...

I learned this by reading an old review at The Wargamer. Not what I expected. Thought I was missing something critical in combat but apparently not.

The story is pretty cool and is actually played out four different ways as you play the four factions. I would recommend giving the game more of a shot before giving up. Once you beat a real scenario and see the story progress I bet you will get sucked in.

I'm not giving up, just getting started. To be honest my main interest is in playing multiplayer with a buddy of mine. I'll use the single player stuff to learn the game mostly.

How many mulitplayer maps come with the Gold/Ultimate edition? Thanks.

[PR_GMR]

Great game... Amazing artwork. Don't make me re-install it. I would lose hours upon hours to this sucker. It's that good.

[Peacedog]

Unlike Peacedog, I am an armor whore and I like to get as much as possible. This is mostly due to my desire to take down capitol guardians for massive experience ASAP.

Armor is definately good, but I de-emphasize in favor of other things early. It's been awhile since I looked into the strategy, but I Was under the impression that attacking a capitol was unpossible until you had a certain level of power attained. How quickly do you really have to take the armor boost as a result?

The capital assaults always struck me as a tad cheesy, so I've only researced but never tried them. I'll have to play a game oneday and give it a whirl.

IIRC, they somewhat altered the way capitals work in the elves expansion yes? The guardians were far more vulnerable as I recall. Frankly, that was one mechanic in the game that I never felt worked well. Yank capitols entirely and just make some design changes for Disciples III, says I (assuming we get one; I have no idea if there are plans).

[msurby]

I Was under the impression that attacking a capitol was unpossible until you had a certain level of power attained. How quickly do you really have to take the armor boost as a result?

The capital assaults always struck me as a tad cheesy, so I've only researced but never tried them.

Taking down a capitol gaurdian is a total cheesefest, but it can get addictive.

With the Empire, you can start taking out capitols by the 3rd scenario. You must have a wizard (best) or scout leader in your party and it must be equipped with the paralysis artifact. Also, you need the multihealer (maybe even two at this point). Assassin's are also nice - guardian armor does not stop poison (or frostbite from the Dwarven Son of Ymir). Anyway, you keep the gaurdian (and pretty much everyone else with a wizard) paralyzed and chip away at its HPs over a fairly long time. Armor comes into play to reduce the gaurdian's damage enough so that you only need one multihealer and you can take advantage of poison damage.

The whole game is really about powerleveling your main leader, so some chesse is always going to happen. The Undead horde is one big chessefest with werewolves and Death units that are immune to normal weapons. Stick one of those up front and go to town on the huge brawler mobs (ogres, giants, orc kings) for massive experience at no danger to you. That being said, the game is a lot of fun despite some of its busted mechanics.

[Peacedog]

msurby, I don't mean to degrade usage of the tactic by calling it cheesy. I agree that this sort of thing is often a blast in games. The same way it was fun to see how powerful your guys could get in any one of the M&Ms (or short cut to get the + stat item from the one chest in M&M6, near the wearwolf lair, and then go hit the circus to make pyramids and then go get weapons).

Isn't your leader capped to 2 levels per scenario? Granted, by the third scenario you're starting to lag that so I guess it's a great way to keep him maxxed. And it might help you considerably for the scenario with the spiders, which was eye-gougingly difficult (still not sure how I beat it the first time).

I didn't think the paralyze artifact was something you obtained automatically. Clearly I am mistaken, and I'll have to research that so I can try this at some point.

No question, the game is about advancing the leader (perhaps disproportionately so). I don't think any cheese factor matters as much in single player, but I don't pkay MP and I can see where it could be a problem.

[msurby]

No offence taken from the "cheese" comment. I pretty much agree with the sentiment. It is hard to meet the level caps later on, so that is probably why I started taking out guardians. It is pretty easy once you get used to it. Plus, it is a nice way to get back at your "allies" - those guys turn on you faster than Chris Grenard dropping a pass...

The paralysis artifact is guarded by the spiders in Empire 2, so getting it is no sure thing. You basically have to fight your way through about 6 stacks of nasty spiders and then take out a large stack in their lair. Being an experienced player help a lot in that one. The best change from D1 to D2 was the defend command. This is so useful, especially with healers. I usually can stick a warrior up front and just have him defend - half damage from attacks - while I take stuff out with my magic hero and another backrow damage unit - usually an archer but sometimes a mage. The healer lets my fighter hang in there for quite some time, especially as they level up and get more HP. Also, by only really needing 4 units, I can level all of my guys faster - battles just take a little longer. This is why I would never use the Warrior bonus with the Empire - you almost never need it.

Another great way to heal with the Empire is to whittle the AI stack down to some weenie unit that does very little damage and then just have the front guy defend, the healer heal and everybody else just does nothing. Repeat until everybody is back at full health.

This really is a great game and this thread has me itching to start up again. Trying to hold out for the DS version.

[Peacedog]

The paralysis artifact is guarded by the spiders in Empire 2, so getting it is no sure thing.

Wait, this is *not* the board where the gigantic spider mobs come flying out of the "pass", and just kicking ridiculous ass is it? I thought that map was empire 4 or 5 or osmething. Maybe it is, but I swear I remember having that arfifact much earlier than that. Imight be insane. Seriously.

This is why I would never use the Warrior bonus with the Empire - you almost never need it.

Nod, it's partly the reason I never played warrior as well. Too many ways to heal. Now other races, maybe it would rock, I dunno.

Also, I love to "milk" stacks as you suggest. A dirty tactic as well (and it makes me partly pine for a more ogre-battlish game where combat is of a fixed length). But sometimes a necessary one.

This really is a great game and this thread has me itching to start up again. Trying to hold out for the DS version.

Again, I'm left to wonder if we'll be seeing any differences. New campaign? I don't own a DS but I'll have to get one at some point, and it'd be hard not to pick up Disciples for it even if it was Disciples 2 all over again. A new campaign, though, would probably kick serious ass.

[msurby]

Wait, this is *not* the board where the gigantic spider mobs come flying out of the "pass", and just kicking ridiculous ass is it? I thought that map was empire 4 or 5 or osmething. Maybe it is, but I swear I remember having that arfifact much earlier than that. Imight be insane. Seriously.

I went and looked it up and the spider level with the artifact (Soul Crystal) is actually Empire 3. So, the first level where you really have a shot to beat down the guardian is level 3 but you probably have to wait until Empire 4.

Spoiler:

...and this is a great time to do it because Empire 4 is where the Dwarves screw you over hard anyway. Fuckin' dwarves!

{regarding the DS port}Again, I'm left to wonder if we'll be seeing any differences. New campaign? I don't own a DS but I'll have to get one at some point, and it'd be hard not to pick up Disciples for it even if it was Disciples 2 all over again. A new campaign, though, would probably kick serious ass.

I'll buy it either way. I have become quite fond of portable strategy gaming. Fun way to kill a lunch hour and very handy for travel.[/quote]