Left 4 Dead

Trey · Post by **Trey** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:02 am

Padre wrote:The subway car near the table which often holds guns is now exposed at one end, which I'm sure it didn't used to be.
It's always been open on the approach side, if that's what you mean. It looks the same as it always has to me
And I think they changed the pipes in NM2 also...

Also looks the same as it always has to me.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:21 am

Padre wrote:ALso, I think I spotted one or two changes to the map in No Mercy on versus. The subway car near the table which often holds guns is now exposed at one end, which I'm sure it didn't used to be. And I think they changed the pipes in NM2 also...

The tank could punch out the back door in the car previously, but it started with it being closed on the end facing the "path forward". I haven't had a chance to play yet; yesterday was a train wreck for me in terms of trying to play, but I assume this is what you are talking about.

I like the flaming hunter change. I agree the damage was too high; it only took a couple of seconds before you could easily outscore a long pounce, and that's no fun. But it's good you still get extra damage; it keeps the tactic useful.

Smoker changes are long over due. Long.

I don't know if I'm reading the tank changes correctly. Can the tank now easily get through duct enterances the same way survivors can? If so, good. Otherwise, I don't care for the "punch through walls" fix (which I would support in the event that vents didn't become uber tank stoppers, even though it only really matters on NM 4. Though I onwder if this affects stairs too. . .). The rest of the changes sound good, or good in theory anyway.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:30 pm

Well, the first four games I tried this afternoon were all borderline unpayable performance wise for coop, and absolutely unplayable in versus (or expert).

This is not statistically impossible, but I often go days if not a wee4k + without seeing a shitty server. Pings were in the 100-130 range on average, it seemed like (I don't always finf the network performance indicator reliable, so maybe the pings were telling I dunno). I'm not sure what to make of this.

Tokek · Post by **Tokek** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:47 pm

I played last night and got a couple of stutters in a few rounds. No idea if it was caused by ping or performance.

DonD · Post by **DonD** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:50 pm

Big thumb up on the patch changes.

Clearly not all of the intended fixes are working though. There was absolutely no doubt the tank could still punch through walls and there is a real question on whether the tank AOE punch is working.

I love how the balance has shifted back toward the infected. The survivors -should- be afraid. It -should- be extremely difficult to get through to the safe room. That's the whole point.

Padre · Post by **Padre** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:36 pm

There's been a patch to the patch which supposedly fixes the tank not hitting multiple people as intended. I haven't seen direct evidence of it working yet, though. Survivors are certainly scattering more for the Tank, though.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:19 pm

Padre wrote:There's been a patch to the patch which supposedly fixes the tank not hitting multiple people as intended. I haven't seen direct evidence of it working yet, though. Survivors are certainly scattering more for the Tank, though.

Smoker tongue still seemed tempermental (though I definately noticed the wide cone; somehow I had that pubby dead to rights above the sewers but I wound up hanging him. Ithink because I spazzed and tried to line up the recticle perfectly), though improved. The latter is more from observation, I never had to drag anyone in a big horde.

A reboot after my earlier post seemed to really help with performance.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:05 am

I definitely noticed the lack of hitting multiple Survivors as the Tank. I also noticed the slightly easier Smoker pulls, though I'm still not too good with him.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:23 pm

Kelric wrote:I definitely noticed the lack of hitting multiple Survivors as the Tank. I also noticed the slightly easier Smoker pulls, though I'm still not too good with him.

The Tongue is fragile. Also, in hindsight, I don't think the "can't melee a dragged/grabbed/(not strangled) survivor" change is working as well. Too often the survivor will get snagged on something, if briefvly, and the game seems to allow for a melee there.

I just finishted a pubbie versus for the ages. The rather charming young man on the other team was pretty chatty when I joined (NM 2) but shut up on 3 after we killed the tank fairly easily. So no, we didn't chug any cock, regardless of the color or speciies of said cock, or anything like that. The rest of the match wound up 3v3 and he got more chatty in NM 4 and 5. Bill was bot for them and he performed like a veteran should. Francis was bot for us and he performed lilke shit, hanging us out to dry on the finale (we couldn't win anyway) by NEVER GETTING INTO THE FUCKING COPTER. The human tank was able to enter and incap two of us before francis went down. :/

Wozer (the player) then gave us a rather lengthy and profane diatribe before we headed to the lobby, where he began kicking the members of our team (I quit at that point). There's a place in hell reserved for people who don't discover masturbation, is all I'm saying.

Tokek · Post by **Tokek** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:42 pm

I can say that the multiple hits on the Tank works. I was in a pub game last night in Blood Harvest and got the tank, the other team decided to stack up in 1 spot, with no way out and I managed to take all 4 of them out in about 4 swipes, they didn't even have a chance. It was kind of funny.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:45 pm

Tokek wrote:I can say that the multiple hits on the Tank works. I was in a pub game last night in Blood Harvest and got the tank, the other team decided to stack up in 1 spot, with no way out and I managed to take all 4 of them out in about 4 swipes, they didn't even have a chance. It was kind of funny.

Yeah, they released a mini-patch that cleared the issue up.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:23 am

I had a dream last night about L4D. I was trying to play versus NM1 and only spawned in as a Survivor once my character was already in the street by the tanker truck, another Survivor was at the top of the subway stairs and the other two were still in the alley. And only one of the Infected had spawned in. Apparently the leading Survivor had rushed as soon as he spawned and connection issues made the rest of us come in piecemeal. Nobody was happy that he sprinted forward like that.

So... I guess I need to play L4D tonight. 11pm eastern, after the BSG finale.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:41 am

Last night, the GF and I were watching the second episode of Joss Whedon's new show Dollhouse. The main character is on an assignment in the forest, and her handler and his buddy are sitting in a van in the forest monitoring her. The driver then says "I hate the woods." If it was anyone besides Whedon, I'd say it was a coincidence. However, I firmly believe that it was a straight up L4D reference. How awesome is that?

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:33 pm

Its awesome that they made the tank hit multiple survivors, no more situations where the survivors pile into one spot with auto shotguns because the tank could only hit one at a time. This change, along with the tank movement changes while crouched and being shot fixes a lot of the cheesy spots in maps.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:55 pm

Turtle wrote:Its awesome that they made the tank hit multiple survivors, no more situations where the survivors pile into one spot with auto shotguns because the tank could only hit one at a time. This change, along with the tank movement changes while crouched and being shot fixes a lot of the cheesy spots in maps.

Very positive, no doubt. I nearly cleared out a team in a pubbie on NM 4 when they ran into the vent (soooooooooo close. It was 3v3, though, and we as infected suffered for it).

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:01 am

Peacedog wrote:
Turtle wrote:Its awesome that they made the tank hit multiple survivors, no more situations where the survivors pile into one spot with auto shotguns because the tank could only hit one at a time. This change, along with the tank movement changes while crouched and being shot fixes a lot of the cheesy spots in maps.
Very positive, no doubt. I nearly cleared out a team in a pubbie on NM 4 when they ran into the vent (soooooooooo close. It was 3v3, though, and we as infected suffered for it).

One thing I don't like is the tactic now employed more often on NM4 where the survivors each pick a corner of the elevator and hammer the Tank to pieces. A good team can get away with barely any damage. A bad team usually loses.

Padre · Post by **Padre** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:18 am

Kelric wrote:One thing I don't like is the tactic now employed more often on NM4 where the survivors each pick a corner of the elevator and hammer the Tank to pieces. A good team can get away with barely any damage. A bad team usually loses.

Well, um, bad teams should lose and good teams should win

. When we used that tactic just now you still incapped at least two of us, so...

As far as that particular tactic goes, I think a decent infected team using a cordinated smoker with the tank, or using hunters with the tank while being careful not to have the tank kill the hunters (something as simple as "hunters go left, tank go right" would do it), or successfully knocking that generator thing into there (as you tried to) could still cause a wipe.

The major problem with NM4 as I see it now is really that the difficulty multiplier given for it is a joke - the map is actually very easy if you rush and can deal with a Tank if you get one, but it's large multiplier magnifies differences between the teams and an inexperienced team that doesn't know the way or isn't comfortable rushing, or even a competent team that gets surprised by the tank, can get creamed.

Burnt Toast · Post by **Burnt Toast** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:37 am

Padre wrote:
Kelric wrote:One thing I don't like is the tactic now employed more often on NM4 where the survivors each pick a corner of the elevator and hammer the Tank to pieces. A good team can get away with barely any damage. A bad team usually loses.
Well, um, bad teams should lose and good teams should win . When we used that tactic just now you still incapped at least two of us, so...

As far as that particular tactic goes, I think a decent infected team using a cordinated smoker with the tank, or using hunters with the tank while being careful not to have the tank kill the hunters (something as simple as "hunters go left, tank go right" would do it), or successfully knocking that generator thing into there (as you tried to) could still cause a wipe.

Yeah, and it would have worked if not for those meddling kids!

I was the tank that time but could not manage to get that thing in there, then it ended up blocking me from getting in so you could start nailing me as I moved it out of the way. Ah, poetic justice. I like the "hunters left, tank right" plan, though. Hmm.....

Padre wrote:The major problem with NM4 as I see it now is really that the difficulty multiplier given for it is a joke - the map is actually very easy if you rush and can deal with a Tank if you get one, but it's large multiplier magnifies differences between the teams and an inexperienced team that doesn't know the way or isn't comfortable rushing, or even a competent team that gets surprised by the tank, can get creamed.

You are right about that. Quite simply, though - tonight you guys often done messed us up good. We had some good moments ourselves, but the final score was due to more than that one map.

ChrisGwinn - it was fun playing with you tonight. You were a bit hard on yourself at times, and I hope you keep coming back for more. Knowing lots of little tricks can be very helpful, but really the best Infected outcomes come from coordinated teams and that comes from repeat playing with decent folk (like, oh, I don't know - OO'ers?).

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:57 am

Padre wrote:
Kelric wrote:One thing I don't like is the tactic now employed more often on NM4 where the survivors each pick a corner of the elevator and hammer the Tank to pieces. A good team can get away with barely any damage. A bad team usually loses.
Well, um, bad teams should lose and good teams should win . When we used that tactic just now you still incapped at least two of us, so...

That is because I'm an awesome tank.

I got a lucky concrete shot on Bill to do some damage and I was mid-swing to incapping Zoey as I died. Mid-swing! Argh!

What last night came down to is we had two inexperienced players (or one inexperienced (Chris) and one who said he sucked (Beezle)) and even Toast and I haven't played together much. You guys sailed through as Survivors in areas where we were still trying to pull the team together as one. It was still fun though, I haven't played in a week and my team didn't get frustrated with each other.

Burnt Toast · Post by **Burnt Toast** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:17 am

Another patch today (March 25th) has finally added in the "melee fatigue" feature that many have suggested, making it harder to corner up and to deal with a boom.

Introduced fatigue to the melee attack in versus mode. You will see a HUD display when your melee swing is cooling down

Boomer vomit will now pass through common infected

Looks like you maybe get 5 swings, then maybe 2-3 second cool-down.

Although I like the change, I would have preferred to know about it _before_ I started playing tonight! Nearly overwhelmed by hordes a couple of times before I started paying attention to it.

Padre · Post by **Padre** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:38 am

Burnt Toast wrote:Another patch today (March 25th) has finally added in the "melee fatigue" feature that many have suggested, making it harder to corner up and to deal with a boom.

Introduced fatigue to the melee attack in versus mode. You will see a HUD display when your melee swing is cooling down

Boomer vomit will now pass through common infected
Looks like you maybe get 5 swings, then maybe 2-3 second cool-down.

Although I like the change, I would have preferred to know about it _before_ I started playing tonight! Nearly overwhelmed by hordes a couple of times before I started paying attention to it.

Holy CRAP!

The melee change is... wow. That's... big news.

I was complaining about the boomer thing just last night, so glad about that one.

Burnt Toast · Post by **Burnt Toast** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:27 am

Padre wrote: Holy CRAP!

The melee change is... wow. That's... big news.

I was complaining about the boomer thing just last night, so glad about that one.

It does seem like a pretty big change to have almost no fanfare/attention.

Something I never thought of last night - it will have a big effect on the Survivor mode, too. That's going to be even HARDER now!

Also - it seems that they eliminated the vents to either side of the elevator doors on NM4, so no hiding behind the elevator when the tank comes, and infected who spawn back there can only get out by coming through the top of the elevator.

Man - if they can just make these subtle changes constantly then the re-playability factor just keeps going up. These Valve guys might be on to something here......

Padre · Post by **Padre** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:13 pm

Well the melee change in the patch notes is explicitly restricted to Versus, so whether it'll show up in Survival mode when that gets release remains to be seen.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:25 pm

Sweet, can't wait to try out the melee change soon.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:46 pm

The melee change is HUGE. Yesterday I found that the best option now is a few melee strikes, then shoot the zombies you've just knocked back. Then melee again for a few swipes. Timing of melee is critical.

You can't always melee a hunter into submission anymore -- which gives hunters a much better shot at getting away or swiping. Boomers are more effective, too.

It's still possible to dominate as survivor. Last night my group finished NM finale with 3 unused health packs on the rooftop. We had good, spread out coverage on the roof and were able to lure both tanks into the machine gun position while the tanks charged at the bait. I think the melee spam was a crutch, and I found a clan team to join that adapted well to the changes.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:01 pm

My new wallpaper.

Edit - Ordered a new microphone today. Hopefully this one lasts longer than a year.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:26 pm

You were a good sport Zarathud, you stayed on much longer than I would have. The first team you had could have probably kept up and it would have a been a decent game, too bad turnover was so high.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:45 pm

You might have noticed that I started targeting you, rather than the most optimal target.

When all hope is lost, call me Ishmael! Poor Doombunny, he followed me to the pubstomp.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:01 pm

Need... microphone... to... play....

Supposedly the new microphone is going to be here tomorrow.

Ninyu · Post by **Ninyu** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:33 pm

Kelric wrote:Need... microphone... to... play....

Supposedly the new microphone is going to be here tomorrow.

Yeah, I tried to play with the crew without a mic on several occasions and it doesn't usually end well. Unfortunately, my wife does her coursework at the desk next to mine during my prime gaming time. I can't be talking into a mic and have the volume up too much. How dare she???

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:46 pm

Methinks it's time to break out L4D again. I had burned out on it a while back, but it seems to have undergone some much needed tweaking.

whispa · Post by **whispa** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:26 pm

hepcat wrote:Methinks it's time to break out L4D again. I had burned out on it a while back, but it seems to have undergone some much needed tweaking.

Yeah I am feeling the same..I need to load it up again and kill me some zombies!

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:59 pm

whispa wrote:
hepcat wrote:Methinks it's time to break out L4D again. I had burned out on it a while back, but it seems to have undergone some much needed tweaking.
Yeah I am feeling the same..I need to load it up again and kill me some zombies!

I find it more fun to kill the Survivors.

ChrisGwinn · Post by **ChrisGwinn** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:06 pm

Burnt Toast wrote:ChrisGwinn - it was fun playing with you tonight. You were a bit hard on yourself at times, and I hope you keep coming back for more. Knowing lots of little tricks can be very helpful, but really the best Infected outcomes come from coordinated teams and that comes from repeat playing with decent folk (like, oh, I don't know - OO'ers?).

I have no self worth tied up in being good at games - I don't mind being the bad one as long as the people I'm playing with are cool with it. I do like getting feedback, so I like to make sure to remind people that I don't actually know what I'm doing and that they probably should point out the obviously dumb things I'm doing.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:08 pm

According to CAG, Target has it for $30. I think I'm in finally... if y'all can stand a noob

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:31 am

Toast - Sorry about tonight. Never suicided before, just wasn't feeling it (and getting burnt in the safe room didn't help). Oddly enough, my computer gave me issues after the safe room and crashed after the game was over. Ah well.

Next time?

Burnt Toast · Post by **Burnt Toast** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:34 am

Kelric wrote:Toast - Sorry about tonight. Never suicided before, just wasn't feeling it (and getting burnt in the safe room didn't help). Oddly enough, my computer gave me issues after the safe room and crashed after the game was over. Ah well.

Sounds like we should talk about why you _really_ jumped your avatar off that roof......
Someone dropping a molly in the safe room thinking we were all suiciding before we all agreed can sure put a damper on things.

Seriously - don't worry about it at all. After an okay beginning, our team just really got trounced repeatedly. I chalk it up to a combo of very good teamwork by the other side, occasional mistakes by each person on ours (notice how I deftly avoid taking all blame

), and frankly us not consistently working as well. We did some good coordination at times, but the other guys handled it well when we did. Somewhat disappointing at times? Maybe. I still had fun which is what it all comes down to in the end.

Kelric wrote:Next time?

Absolutely. We'll get the Inglorious B*stards! I pretty much always enjoy it if playing with decent people on both sides, even if I get my ass handed to me. Sometimes I am doing the ass-handing, too!

wait...

Uh. Next time!

Burnt Toast · Post by **Burnt Toast** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:40 am

ChrisGwinn wrote:
Burnt Toast wrote:ChrisGwinn - it was fun playing with you tonight. You were a bit hard on yourself at times, and I hope you keep coming back for more. Knowing lots of little tricks can be very helpful, but really the best Infected outcomes come from coordinated teams and that comes from repeat playing with decent folk (like, oh, I don't know - OO'ers?).
I have no self worth tied up in being good at games - I don't mind being the bad one as long as the people I'm playing with are cool with it. I do like getting feedback, so I like to make sure to remind people that I don't actually know what I'm doing and that they probably should point out the obviously dumb things I'm doing.

Yeah, I had a couple of bad PUG's earlier this week where one stranger on my team would just constantly berate the others and say how stupid they were, ttc.

I personally don't like rage-quitting, and will often play through to the end with moderately irritating people as long as at least some others are decent.

Re: Feedback in game: I sometimes worry that my intended "friendly advice" may come off as "arrogant ass-hat" even if offered in a friendly way, so may try to hold back unless people say they are inexperienced or ask what to do.

Look forward to stomping some zombies/chomping some survivors with you again!

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:23 am

Any word yet about when the new Versus maps go live? Growing slightly bored with the current limited offerings and coop just doesn't quite have that sizzle factor anymore.

DonD · Post by **DonD** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:55 am

I had seen a date of April 21st somewhere.