Xenonauts - spiritual successor to X-Com, indie developed

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:11 pm

JonathanStrange wrote:How many hardcore XCOM fans are there? Do you stop being a hardcore XCOM fan if you don't mind changes? Do "change little, if anything" posters represent a vast number of XCOM gamers - or just an outspoken and tiny fraction of them?

I think "Just give me XCom with better graphics" is mostly what people say when someone *tries* to do XCom and gets it wrong. It doesn't mean that they would reject successful improvements; it's just a way of blasting attempts that fail.

In other words, it really means "Your new game doesn't satisfy my nostalgia."

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:18 am

JonathanStrange wrote:How many hardcore XCOM fans are there? Do you stop being a hardcore XCOM fan if you don't mind changes? Do "change little, if anything" posters represent a vast number of XCOM gamers - or just an outspoken and tiny fraction of them?

I have a feeling that most potential Xenonaut gamers aren't going to be judging the game on its fidelity to a 20-year-old XCOM they never played - or if they have, they find quaintly outdated - but on whether it compares well to other games they're playing lately.

It's hard to be nostalgic when you can't remember anything.

I find your opinions on this to be a bit odd, to be honest.

I've replayed the original X-Com, which came out when I was 11 years old, probably 20-30 times. Only beaten it twice, of course. And my thing is that I feel like the original game was simply the most fun. There's a charm to the liberal usage of high explosives to level entire buildings, and there's a charm to giving each rookie just a cattle prod until they prove themselves in combat.

The design decisions you are claiming, "Just need to be improved" are part of what made the game fun. As much as I want the game to be even *better* than X-Com, I also recognize how difficult it is to change thing and still maintain the original flavor. I mean, read about what I asked for two years ago:

ChrisGrenard two years ago wrote:All I want is X-Com with some way to strafe around corners, better mouse control and a bit more weapon differentiation. That's *it*.

I say nothing about cover-based systems, nothing about improved AI, etc. All I wanted is three simple things. And Xenonauts, from my very impressions of it, does two of those three things. We have much improved mouse control and far more weapons. And that third item I could probably live without.

My confusion comes in when you start basically railing against people like myself who want this. Why should you care? We all got the superb XCom Enemy Unknown last year. You've personally probably played one of the dozen X-Com knockoffs throughout the years that does change up the formula. Why are you letting your jimmies get rustled by something that attempts to simply ape the original minus some of the annoying bits (such as, say, doors that can't be opened without stepping through them).

And this isn't rose tinted glasses, I should point out. Like I said, I've been replaying and still enjoying the original X-Com for years now. It is simply a great game, and I merely wanted more of it.

JonathanStrange · Post by **JonathanStrange** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:04 pm

ChrisGenard wrote:My confusion comes in when you start basically railing against people like myself who want this. Why should you care? We all got the superb XCom Enemy Unknown last year. You've personally probably played one of the dozen X-Com knockoffs throughout the years that does change up the formula. Why are you letting your jimmies get rustled by something that attempts to simply ape the original minus some of the annoying bits (such as, say, doors that can't be opened without stepping through them).

Heh. It's not about you or "people like you." I wasn't "railing against" anyone; they're entitled to their opinion. I was asking questions and expressing my opinion that despite enjoying the first game, I would prefer Xenonauts do more than (as you write) "simply ape the original" - and that not every ( and maybe not even many) potential Xenonaut buyer is looking for the exact XCOM experience.

Anyhow, I hope the game is successful and fun - and I'll likely buy it too (as I posted earlier) - but I'll likely continue to want better tweaks and innovations and more ambition. It appears to me "your jimmies got rustled" - whatever that means - but if you're that passionate about defending the game from any and all, that's a good sign, I hope, for the game's reception.

I'll stop asking questions now. And stop railing against people and stop rustling jimmies too. Whatever that means.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:56 pm

Rustled Jimmies? Yes please. I'm going to wait until this is officially out before I make my move though, I've got too many other games to play Beta test right to take on another.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:26 pm

JonathanStrange wrote: I have a feeling that most potential Xenonaut gamers aren't going to be judging the game on its fidelity to a 20-year-old XCOM they never played - or if they have, they find quaintly outdated - but on whether it compares well to other games they're playing lately.

That is a bit of a wonky statement. Will I be comparing Xenonauts to Mount and Blade Warband, or Prison Architect because I've "played them recently"? Of course not, that would be stupid. The only game I've played semi-recently that would be comparable to Xenoauts is XCOM EU; and, as I've said - I found XCOM EU to be shallow and rather arcade like. I like Xenonauts. It has everything I wanted in an X-Com remake. I'm happy with my purchase and because it's still only Beta, I know even better things are on the way.

-

As far as jimmies go - I'd say JohnnyStrange was the one with a bee in his pantalones. Also, by saying outlandish things like "there is no cover system" you've pretty much proven that you don't know much about the game, since there is in fact a cover system, and it works quit well. Thank you very much.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:38 pm

Well, I thought the point JS was making is that many of the (new) players of Xenonauts won't necessarily have played the original X-Com. They might have heard of it, but not even loaded it up, and more than likely might compare it to the current X-Com with its updated mechanics. I'm still surprised today when talking to my other gamer friends who've never even played X-Com. I will get the game like I've gotten every other X-Com clone, but I will wait for a few patches to see what they've done.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:28 pm

I put some serious time into Xenonauts this morning. And at this point, I think this is shaping up to be goddamn near perfect. I'll do a much more thorough post later, but for now, here's the rundown.

Pros:
- Map types ape the original extremely well. I was particularly impressed with how well the Arctic Map aped the original.
- Cover mechanics and shot chances works very well (see example here). It's even obvious what you should take before the mission begins. Desert map? Take precision rifles. Urban? Mix of medium and short range. The ability to do this works to the game's favor very nicely.
- Air combat seems good so far. I particularly like that you can launch a whole squadron of planes at a UFO, and they link together. Heck, I just found out that after a kill you can still send them after another UFO!

Cons:
- The game is clearly unfinished. I just ran into a duplicate map in the desert biome, for example.
- The AI is far from finished. It'll shoot back, but I haven't found it to be a threat as long as you hug cover with your troops.
- I can't figure out what to do to research laser rifles. I want my laser rifles, goddammit!

jnecros · Post by **jnecros** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:39 pm

Looks good, will be adding this to my wish list

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:38 pm

Based on the repeat map, I guess Xenonaughts doesn't have random maps. Any idea of map numbers?

jnecros · Post by **jnecros** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:13 pm

According to the Steam page, the Devs say there are about 50 maps, and they are looking to increase this many-fold

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:12 am

The devs were working on a fully randomized system.

However seems like they realized how much of a task it was. I think they're using a system where maps are divided into blocks that can be randomized, and chunks within each building can be randomized further.

So while you don't have full randomization, provided they have enouch chunks, it should be fine.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:27 am

To Arms!!

Chris is considering: New game system: Interceptors which are shot down in air combat are no longer outright destroyed, they instead perform a crash landing and are recovered to their base 72 hours later (at which point they must be still repaired)

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/foru ... -available" target="_blank!

There is a sort of firestorm in the forums. Some people think it's the cats meow of an idea and others think it's easy-mode sell out to have magical fighters that never get destroyed. The reasoning is that it's easier to balance the game, according to Chris. There are several threads going, but so far neither Chris nor Aaron have commented....if you have an opinion, better make it known over there.

-

**Updated**

It appears that Chris took the easy way out.

All aircraft will be magically recovered and repaired after being blown out of the sky by UFO's using non-lethal weapons. You will never have a fighter destroyed by a UFO. Aircraft shot down over large bodies of water will apparently float, and be recovered....and then rebuilt in a few days.

/support revoked for Xenonauts, the not so spritual successor to X-Com.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:57 am

Rise, my thread...

Expected game release is May 30th! I just hopped into the current beta, and here's my impressions:

SO GOOD. SO, SO GOOD. OH MAN IS IT GOOD.

Balanced weapons! Better AI! Soldier loadouts that you can customize! Control your fighter craft directly, or let them fight in autopilot! Soldiers with riot shields! You can move a second unit while the first is still moving! Friendly soldiers assist you in battle!

This is shaping up to be fantastic.

One caveat: I've only put about an hour or so in with the latest beta. But I tell you what, I am already wanting to get back into it.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:49 am

Been itching for something similar after playing X-Com The Bureau. Still have hopes this will turn out well.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:46 pm

It's better than it was, for sure.

However, after 3 missions a lot of my troops are now captains. Rank progression was (in earlier versions) more realistic and meaningful. Having soldiers soaring through ranks breaks some of the immersion for me. Also, the dropships never run out of fuel. They seem to be able to fly around the entire planet...like a full lap and not run out of gas. I thought this was set in 1979? That also breaks immersion for me. And, the doozy. Fighters never die (previously mentioned) if they get show down, they get rebuilt for free in 72 hours and just sort of re-appear in your hanger.

I don't know. Ground combat is pretty fun, but there definitely seems to be some dubious development choices that were made.

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:17 am

Good to hear they are making progress. Really good to hear you can auto-fight the air, because that minigame can get boring.

But, as with Citizen's post above, I have issue with the overall dubious decisions as to which things to change from the original formula. Especially since a great idea I had was rejected directly by the director because it was too different from the original X-COM, but then in this latest build he's doing this?

Actually, did they implement it? I think I posted it before, but my idea was for combat maps to not be completely blacked out when you first land, and instead you'd have a flat overlay of crude grainy satellite/spyplane photos, hand drawn maps, or even just someone snapping pictures as they land. Either that or it's on the minimap.

You replace the silliness and frustration of the entirely black map with the dread of having to deal with the terrain ahead of you.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:15 pm

No, it's still all blacked out. I like the grainy idea, though. I missed the last experimental beta build so I logged in just to double check the blacked out vs. grainy. I had a downed UFO Mission. My dropship went from New Orleans USA to Kabul, Afghanistan. She landed with 69% fuel remaining. Looks like he did reduce the XP gain though. Something like 20%.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:08 am

It's done, although official release is still a couple of weeks away. I just got a pretty big update form Steam, which I assume is the final version. Will try to check it out later.

We have now released Xenonauts V1.0 on the Stable branch, which marks the end of formal development for Xenonauts. This is effectively the final version of the game, minus any stability patches that may be required.

Official release and leaving Early Access for the game is in about two weeks (tentatively pencilled in as 16th June), but the remaining time is mostly going to be spent on sending out review copies, the PR around the launch, porting to Mac / Linux and getting the Kickstarter rewards sorted out etc.

We will continue to work on fixing any crashes / hangs encountered in the game, and any non-crash bugs that render the game unplayable in other ways.

We've fixed all the worst issues that appeared over the past few days of community testing, but as the game is 10-15+ hours for a playthrough we've obviously not been able to fully test the game internally after the last bunch of fixes. So there may still be some issues in the game - but if so, they'll be addressed in the next two weeks before the official release.

There have been a lot of changes made since the previous Stable version. The game has a much smoother difficulty curve, more information for new players, new line of sight mechanics, much improved AI and all sorts of finer polish.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:26 am

Awaiting impressions!

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:48 am

I played a little bit this morning, but will be headed to my show shortly, so I didn't get very far. If you've played this in early access, the final version is polished quite a bit more, with better graphics and expanded tooltips.

I played one crashed ship mission, and from what I can tell, people disappointed that Firaxis didn't give them the original game with a new coat of paint should be happy with this. It's very close to the original, and a very different experience than the Firaxis remake. I did notice a couple of differences (from what I can remember - it's been a long time since I played X-Com.)

- The interceptor mini-game is a lot more tactical. Also you can pause and give orders, which the original game didn't allow you to do, iirc.

- Squaddies don't die immediately in the field. An incapacitated squad member actually has 1 HP, and bleeds out after x turns. If you complete the mission or can get the team member medical attention before that happens, the squaddie will survive (but be hospitalized afterwards, of course)

- Alternate victory conditions (Yay!). You no longer have to scour the map for that one remaining Sectoid. The mission I played also awarded victory if you captured the UFO and held it for 5 turns. I assume there are similar alternatives in other kinds of missions.

- Psi powers. Squad members are not rated for Psi ability. I don't know if they make an appearance later in the game as there's no manual yet, just a quick-start guide explaining the interface.

In short, if you loved the original, no matter what you thought of the version a couple of years ago, this is a must-have for $20. I don't if there are plans to raise that price on the formal release date, but there is no reason not to get it now if you plan to get it Day One.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:04 pm

tgb wrote:Psi powers. Squad members are not rated for Psi ability. I don't know if they make an appearance later in the game as there's no manual yet

In the original you didn't see a soldier's psi ability until after they had leveled up considerably. It always sucked to think you had this super soldier on your hands only to find out later that they were horribly vulnerable to psi attacks. it sounds like this may have the same mechanism.

razgon · Post by **razgon** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:53 am

Sadly, its seems like PSI powers won't make it into the game.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:05 pm

Finally! Woo hoo. I backed this game a long long time ago and I think I paid $29.99 at the time but I'm happy to finally play it.

Normann · Post by **Normann** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:24 am

I got it. It still shows early access but it is done minus some parching. So far I like it. It reminds me of X-com unlike the new X-com.

I have one question: some events pop up on the map like abduction at this and that time. I can't click on them to send an intercept. Is that how it supposed to be?

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:47 pm

Normann wrote:I got it. It still shows early access but it is done minus some parching. So far I like it. It reminds me of X-com unlike the new X-com.

I have one question: some events pop up on the map like abduction at this and that time. I can't click on them to send an intercept. Is that how it supposed to be?

Yes. You can only send interceptors to UFO's that are within the range of your radar (the circle on the map). Those text messages represent events taking place outside of that circle. Keeping track of the locations should give you an idea of where to build your next base.

Normann · Post by **Normann** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:27 am

tgb wrote:
Normann wrote:I got it. It still shows early access but it is done minus some parching. So far I like it. It reminds me of X-com unlike the new X-com.

I have one question: some events pop up on the map like abduction at this and that time. I can't click on them to send an intercept. Is that how it supposed to be?
Yes. You can only send interceptors to UFO's that are within the range of your radar (the circle on the map). Those text messages represent events taking place outside of that circle. Keeping track of the locations should give you an idea of where to build your next base.

Thanks tgb! What difficulty level are you all playing? I started out on veteran and I can already see how this will hand me my ass soon.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:49 am

I started on Normal, but switched over to XCOM with the Long War mod and am enjoying that a lot more.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:12 pm

tgb wrote:I started on Normal, but switched over to XCOM with the Long War mod and am enjoying that a lot more.

So, I assume you consider this a "pass?"

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:31 pm

I've fiddled with this just a little bit, enough to try one mission, and it seems very promising. Going to wait to start a real game until they get one or two more patches done, as there are some issues right now that need fixing (including one mission type that has been disabled for the time being). I have to say though, the thing that immediately impressed me the most was the AI. It appears to be unnervingly clever. It would attack me by surprise, and when I brought up my guys to retaliate, it would withdraw and flank me from outside my line of sight. I ended up in a situation where I was being attacked from all sides, including the direction from which I had come myself, and the enemies would never approach me when I was ready for them. Compared to what I saw in that mission, the AI in XCOM is rudimentary in comparison.

Then again, it might just be a freak occurrence, though it didn't feel that way.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 pm

baelthazar wrote:
tgb wrote:I started on Normal, but switched over to XCOM with the Long War mod and am enjoying that a lot more.
So, I assume you consider this a "pass?"

Not necessarily. If you don't care about polish and just want X-Com for modern systems, go for it. If you prefer all the modern bells and whistles, you might get the mod and stick with the Firaxis version.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:41 am

It's worth noting that Xenonauts takes place in a new setting and isn't just a ripoff of X-Com, so it'll feel more fresh than XCOM in that regard.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:48 am

Grabbed this yesterday as it seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. I didn't like in XCOM that some of it felt so scripted. Especially in the beginning where the same exact things happen each time. Played for about 2 hours and I think it's great so far. The first aliens I met weren't all that impressive looking, but the maps and the fights are really fun. You really have to use good old tactics or you will get your ass handed to you. Feels much more tactical than the new XCOM game.

For 20 bucks I don't see why someone wouldn't give it a shot if they loved the original one and the new XCOM didn't scratch that itch.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:15 pm

Octavious wrote:For 20 bucks I don't see why someone wouldn't give it a shot if they loved the original one and the new XCOM didn't scratch that itch.

I should love this game and buy it because I loved the original but I'm having a little trouble getting past the art style they chose for the soldiers. I think it's terrible. I know it's a stupid issue but it's just a buzz kill for me right now. Eventually I'll get over it and give it a try. But for now, I don't think this guy even looks like a soldier. I have trouble getting emotionally invested in a dork soldier that looks like this:

Rather than this:

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:23 pm

I'm hearing that this game is ridiculously hard even on easy. Anyone confirm or deny this?

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:49 pm

I wouldn't say it was any harder than the start of the regular X-Com, however I stopped playing pre-v1.X since the patching would mess up saves and I wanted to experienced the polished game with fresh eyes after the balancing and such.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:16 pm

I'm actually playing both right now. OpenXcom and this and I think OpenXcom has been harder. I just got wiped on a terror mission just a month in. Floaters are a bitch if you don't have armor yet.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:39 am

Several builds in I found a mod that significantly improves the look and uniform of your squads. Bad news is that I don't remember where I got it, so can't post a link, but someone with decent Google-fu should be able to find it.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:58 am

ColdSteel wrote:I should love this game and buy it because I loved the original but I'm having a little trouble getting past the art style they chose for the soldiers. I think it's terrible. I know it's a stupid issue but it's just a buzz kill for me right now. Eventually I'll get over it and give it a try. But for now, I don't think this guy even looks like a soldier. I have trouble getting emotionally invested in a dork soldier that looks like this:

I have to disagree with you there. The guys in this game look like actual soldiers, while the ones in X-Com (for all my love of that game) look like typical Anime silliness. Xenonauts is going for a far more realistic style, while X-Com went for a stylistic cartoony style to go along with its cheesy sci-fi setting.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:59 am

TiLT wrote:I have to disagree with you there.

Then you're basically just disagreeing with my personal dislike for the art style. I won't disagree that it is a more "realistic" uniform perhaps. It is, however, horribly done and apparently I'm not the only one that feels that way if there's a mod to change it as tgb says. That slumped-shoulder, hangdog look of a specimen does not say "elite soldier, one of the worlds crème de la crème combating a menace that threatens mankind's existence" to me. To me it says "I am just an unhappy conscripted schmo, get me the hell outa here".

Glad to hear there's a mod to fix this, though. In any case, I got OpenXcom working so I will be trying that one first.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:03 am

ColdSteel wrote:
TiLT wrote:I have to disagree with you there.
Then you're basically just disagreeing with my personal dislike for the art style.

Of course. Just wanted to bring a bit of balance to the discussion, since your opinion isn't universally shared. I can see your point, though I don't really agree with it. I'm tired of game and movie soldiers being based off of cartoon characters and overly bombastic variations of US marines. These guys know they're about to die. They're not posing for Guns & Ammo.