OFFICIAL OO STARCRAFT II RELEASE THREAD OMG

[WarPanda]

The word proxy is really a misnomer when used in SC2. For instance a proxy pylon or proxy gate is really just saying they built it outside of there base, somewhere on the map. It is not an accurate use of the word and is misleading when taken literally. Proxy Gate, Pylon, barracks, is usually used in reference to building something close, or in your base. what makes the Proxy gate so effective is it cuts down on the zealot run time. Next thing you know you have 2 zels in your base within a few minutes. Its nasty.

[Matrix]

nice to have superbowl weekend, no one wants to work / train on it.

I been working on my leagues, at the #2 spot now, a lot more silvers are coming my way and at least 3 of them were in top 3 of their silver league, and had one mid gold. For what ever reason i keep getting a lot of zergs against me this day, which is fine, since for what ever reason i have a better feel for vs zerg build, probably because i know timing with them better then other races. Will need to work on my vs protos still, that mass clamp of units is still proving hard for me. And i need to refocus on macro more, though i am getting a bit better at it, i still find myself too often microing battle which i probably should be microing.

PS: i managed my first hathery rush?!?! today. Was vs marine player, and he was massing marines, i sneaked in early drone and decided to try hatchery in his base (since usually protos are much better at base control, and marines can be sloppy early on). A lot of hilarity inssued. Since i actually managed to get it up and pumping zerglings, right when he attacked my base with his massed marines. I already has few bainlings and his main attack failed, but my hatchery in his base was pumping zerlgings right into his mineral line. He didnt go down quickly and put up good amount of fight but by the time he killed hatchery, i broke down his front wall and killed most drones. I can just imagine his reaction upon seeing hatchery right in his base 0-o

[stessier]

I have never heard of that before and don't think I ever would have had the guts to try and pull it off! Most definitely post the replay!! What map was it on?

[Matrix]

It was steeps of war, how do i post a replay?

I re watched after you mention posting it, and yah, timing was just very favorable on me, or basicly got lucky with timing. It almost funny that at the time his first attack left the base, the hatch spawned. and then there was creeep. I was watching it from his prospective and omg, he sent his scv to check on the creep, lol. SCV was probably going WTF?! a scouting mission.
After the rematch, the hatch done pretty much main econ dmg, then my forces from outside moped it up.

Had a good run today too, 8 straight wins, then lost to a good zerg (or maybe just me letting him dictate the play). Messed up my start, and it went downhill from there, he should have taken me out earlier, but was really intense game, every step of it me hanging in by a thread and finally losing to mass brood lords and way too many mutas. It seems now they say even game, and then match me with single diget silvers, they should get a memo, i am still in bronze.

[Matrix]

As i started feeling i am getting better yesterday, today it was just a disaster. I think of 4 games i played , lost 3. Even though in number of situation i had initiative. Just bad execution, bad decision making and timing is completely off.

[stessier]

Finally, finally, finally got time to play this morning and after my first game (a loss ), the matchmaking server apparently went down. KAAAAHHHHHHNNNNNNNNN!!!!

[Matrix]

Have been trying to have at least few games at night, so that i keep working on my game. Few things i am noticing as i also watch some day 9 dailies, is having strategy and a build behind the other parts.
Even though i am losing more now then before, in part due to harder opponents and in part due to trying to remember consciously mini map, short cuts and etc. My skill level drooped (not that i have had much) as i am implementing new things, but i am noticing a better long term development. I really liked how day9 explained how to watch your own recorded videos, they are a cauldron of information.

Funny part the reason i started playing starcraft 2 vs others, drum roll, is because i thought it will help me get different prospective on my work or allow me to see it on different level. And it did, even as i am focusing on improving star craft skills it gives me glimpse into what i can do better at work (Just to explain, i own my own business, hence the motivation to improve any way i can).

[stessier]

I suck again.

It's been about a week since I played more thank 1 game in a row. This morning I went 1-7. The one win was against a Bronze who was 1-7 in his career. And it was a relatively close match. The rest were not. Pitiful.

I don't know if I can keep playing this. The amount of time it takes to stay "good" is somewhat daunting. Of course if I rip of a 10-0 streak tomorrow, I may change my tune.

[Matrix]

do you play to play or do you focus on fundamentals? i find that when i play to play i win more, but its more by luck (when i 10 pooled and he was doing 2 proxi marine barack rush right outside my base on the smallest map, he would probably won if i was doing my normal start, and 10 pull took him apart) and vice versa, when i focus on improving specific elements i am playing worse but i feel i get better in a long run.

I am not sure when i am going to have another 8-0 run, had 2 of them so far, but as long as my game improves its not relevant. I personaly dont care if i win or lose at this point of time, its more of how i win and how i lose. Did i follow my strategy and stuck to it and lost? then why, and did i not follow my strategy and won by luck and how do i stick to my strategy?

Question on leagues, once person moves up, can they drop down? or they always in league they were placed in?

[stessier]

do you play to play or do you focus on fundamentals?

This is what I try to focus on every time I play.

I'm doing Random now, so when I start as

Terran - I remind myself to abuse drops. If going against Z, I wall off. Against T & P I build everything close to the CC and put a bunker near the ramp. I remind myself to be aggressive and harass. If I feel uncomfortable, I think I'm doing it right (my natural tendency is to Turtle).

Protoss - I remind myself to upgrade. I try light harass to buy myself time to get the stronger stuff. Also remind myself to Chrono. Against Z I usually create a very narrow choke. For T & P, I spread stuff out and try to cover the area with pylons so I have good vision.

Zerg - I really like the 11Overpool start. Against Z, I don't expand until I have pushed back the initial attack (and I'm always on the receiving end of that one - feel far more comfortable in defense). Against T&P, as long as I'm on the bigger maps, I expand like that strat requires at 18. Against P, I remind myself to drop an Evo as soon as possible because of all the Phoenix harass at my level. I also drop my pool and warren to block off the back of my mineral line as there is an insidious Toss cannon rush that goes back there that many say can only be beat by not letting it happen. Against T - I'm just not that good. I usually try to pop roaches when I see the first marines show up. I'm less than 50% win against them, though and stink at using Banelings.

I'm just not thinking fast enough. When I see a counter unit, it takes me a minute to figure out what I should do to get around/counter that. It used to just come to me. Or if I see a certain unit mix, I have no idea what the opponent is trying to do whereas before I almost always had a clue what was coming next. It's annoying because I remember what it was like to be on top of it but I just can't seem to to back to that place.

[Matrix]

I think those are normal reactions, maybe you are getting better. Our old habits have to combined with new habits.

When i dont know what is going on in game, when before it was clear, i am happy. It means my perception of the game changing and needs time to recollect itself with new pieces.
In my work with clients, my goal is to change their perception of the world from where they are now, to where they want to be. More often then not they will be worse off at the start, but then as new information
is absorbed they improvement highly clear.
Therfore, i will take me losing now half the time, over when i was winning 8 in a row based on luck and flawed strategy.

[BlottoBot]

do you play to play or do you focus on fundamentals?

This is what I try to focus on every time I play.

I'm doing Random now, so when I start as

Terran - I remind myself to abuse drops. If going against Z, I wall off. Against T & P I build everything close to the CC and put a bunker near the ramp. I remind myself to be aggressive and harass. If I feel uncomfortable, I think I'm doing it right (my natural tendency is to Turtle).

Protoss - I remind myself to upgrade. I try light harass to buy myself time to get the stronger stuff. Also remind myself to Chrono. Against Z I usually create a very narrow choke. For T & P, I spread stuff out and try to cover the area with pylons so I have good vision.

Zerg - I really like the 11Overpool start. Against Z, I don't expand until I have pushed back the initial attack (and I'm always on the receiving end of that one - feel far more comfortable in defense). Against T&P, as long as I'm on the bigger maps, I expand like that strat requires at 18. Against P, I remind myself to drop an Evo as soon as possible because of all the Phoenix harass at my level. I also drop my pool and warren to block off the back of my mineral line as there is an insidious Toss cannon rush that goes back there that many say can only be beat by not letting it happen. Against T - I'm just not that good. I usually try to pop roaches when I see the first marines show up. I'm less than 50% win against them, though and stink at using Banelings.

I'm just not thinking fast enough. When I see a counter unit, it takes me a minute to figure out what I should do to get around/counter that. It used to just come to me. Or if I see a certain unit mix, I have no idea what the opponent is trying to do whereas before I almost always had a clue what was coming next. It's annoying because I remember what it was like to be on top of it but I just can't seem to to back to that place.

you cannot be demoted out of your league. Seeing as the league itself is just dressing for your score they wont drop you out of it. Thats bad for business. You can go as low as position 100 and get very behind (lose points) and then have a very hard time advancing in the future though.

[stessier]

you cannot be demoted out of your league. Seeing as the league itself is just dressing for your score they wont drop you out of it. Thats bad for business. You can go as low as position 100 and get very behind (lose points) and then have a very hard time advancing in the future though.

Are you sure that is true? I've read on the boards about people being demoted from Silver to Bronze. Heck, there are portrait farmers who count on being demoted.

I have no fear of dropping to 100 Silver though. I have like 2100 points. I'll give up long before I lose all of those.

[Little Raven]

I'm pretty sure you CAN be demoted...it's just difficult. I've certainly met people who claim to have been demoted, though I've never been demoted myself. (and I've had some pretty impressive losing streaks!)

[BlottoBot]

I'm pretty sure you CAN be demoted...it's just difficult. I've certainly met people who claim to have been demoted, though I've never been demoted myself. (and I've had some pretty impressive losing streaks!)

now you guys got me worried, I need to play some more 1v1s!

[ska5fe]

I got demoted from Gold to Silver, but I'm pretty sure it was just because I didn't play at all, not because I played poorly.

[stessier]

4-1 this morning including a win over a silver (me Z, him T on Sharkura). Felt really in control of that one even though he sniped my 3rd base just as it popped. Eventually got up to 5 bases to his 1.5 (didn't expand until his primary ran out of minerals). Nice to see the bonus pool shrink during a play session rather than grow.

[WarPanda]

Grats man.

I had one of the easiest wins yet last night. PVP match up on lost temple. I am nervous and going through the motions. Scouting probe at nine find him in the close position. I scout his base and do not find any gates or pylons. Uh oh! I search all over my base and around it. Behind the bushes but alas I find nothing. I am building up to a four gate and I search his base again. Only now do I discover he just started making probes and finally put down a gate..

I put up a pylon on the far side of his base. Hit him with 1 Zel and 6 Stalkers from the front then warp in 3 zels in his base headed straight for his minerals. Game over. What made it memorable is that he said this "Wow your really good, I only gave you 2 minutes head start!" Not sure if he was being sarcastic or not but it made me chuckle non the less.

The next game of the night before multiplayer goodness was against a random player. I open up with a "hey lets have some fun." He says "@#!* off" I "LOL" and say "whatever man" he comes back to say "I am in a losing streak and its pissing me off". I tell him I have been there. He played pretty well, a bit too much turtling. I crushed him army in the middle with a bunch of zels and forcefields. We build up and I watch him take his third. I move in with a big ball of protoss death. Kill the third and flank his defenses. I kill all of his stuff while taking heavy losses but now I have a pylon and a handful of units killing probes at his natural expansion. He is desperate and drops his vikings to help. They die fast as my Collosus and reinforcements all arrive. He leaves. Sending me a message later saying "@#!* you". Funny eh!

To top it off, during a multiplayer match we end up beating a decent team after some uber fail cheese on our part. One of there players ends up messaging me and another guy (Death) on my team. This is what he said "@#!* you". I mean this guy leaves the game then proceeds to send Death and me the message. Lame!

A fun night overall.

[stessier]

Yeah, BMs usually make me laugh at the end of the game. At the beginning I always suspect they are just trying to throw me off my game and so I ignore them.

The coming after you after the game is doubly funny. That takes real effort and shows you really got under his skin. Nice!

Today on Metalopolis, I was Random Terran and he was Protoss. During the SCV build up, he was asking the origin of my name and talking about Brandon Sanderson lives down his street. I responded a bit, but was very diligent at making sure I didn't miss a marine build or MULE calldown. When I moved out on his base, he was still nattering on.

Turns out he was expanding like crazy and cannoning up. We were at cross positions and I took him out at his starting point only to have to start hunting for his other spots. He had both golds and a handful of cannons at each. I took out one, then had to wait for reinforcements before taking out the other. Then I sent marines to each site. Found him at 3 more. Took out the 2 that were warping in before moving on the third (and hopefully final) one. And that's when I found he finally had units - VRs. Made short work of my marauders and tanks. Luckily I had up a starport, so I started on Vikings, 2 more starports and a bunch of turrets and marines. Got out 2 Vikings and 2 turrets before the 4 VRs found me. They kind of made a mess of things before I took them down. When they were dead, he said "damn" and nothing else ever appeared. That was like his all in or something.

Built up a little ball with a bit of everything and stomped that base only to see he had expanded once more (the VRs had taken out my sentries on their way over so I didn't have complete vision anymore). Sat the big force at the bottom of the ramp and started a real buildup while blocking off every other site. Was 10 marines into the master plan when he said "f*** this" and quit. Worst whack-a-mole game evar!!

I'm not sure he realized that probes and Nexi aren't very good at attacking...

[BlottoBot]

One of there players ends up messaging me and another guy (Death) on my team. This is what he said "@#!* you". I mean this guy leaves the game then proceeds to send Death and me the message. Lame!

A fun night overall.

Death typically deserves it At least when we play 2v2 we both do. We have opened every game with cheese. Went from bronze to high gold in 1 night of about 20 games. cheese>all

[Little Raven]

Yeah, Death is generally hilarious, but let's face it....the guy generally deserves any BM that comes his way.

[Matrix]

Well i am no longer in the worst 20% of all players muahahaha, now i am in the worst 40%!
Or its my way of saying i got promoted to silver. 51 win 41 loss
I am now i rank 54 in silver, which feels way better then number 2 or 3 in bronze.

My ranking game was vs guy ranked second on silver, ZVZ he went mass economy, i went roach, with ling harass and straight into Lair. To my surprise he went for 2 expansions with No spore crawlers, NO army other then 4 zerglings. I guess he scouted me and saw my late pool (at 15) and he was like, oh that guy is econ based. Econ based my ass!
Its a rough build i am testing that i saw on day9, normally he say go straight roach and lair, but i dont like straight roach play since if the opponent is open to attack fastlings can criple them. So if i see fast expo as i saw in this case, i will be linging him to test and then switch to roach. I dont like to play pure macro play at the moment, since if he is macro player as it was in this case, he will own me later game. Considering i saw he had close to 600 game on his account, i am pretty sure pure macro was not an option in retro spect.

I like prodding with zerglings and then if i see defense is weak, i push further or i work on my macro, notice word "work", since my macro is anything but macro at the moment. My first 10 zerglings over ran him like nothing, then i took out his queen, he was able to beat off my weak attack , but little did he know it was just a transition phase into roach. My next attack was 10 zerglings and about 8 roaches, oh boy, that was bad. I pretty much killed his whole economy save for few drones, but he already had mutas so he did beat that attack off as well. Then i transitioned into mutas. Had few nice fights but my econ far superior since by that point i also expanded and had pretty solid economy on that base too. Then he gged as more mutas poored out of my base.
I now dont do hydras to counter mutas anymore, i feel i give up way too much map control, had few games before where i did that, and then he pretty much kept me confined the whole game and then finished me with lords.

[stessier]

Congratulations Matrix! Sounds like you had a fun promotion match too.


I went 3-1 this morning. Wins over 2 silvers and a bronze. Loss to a Silver. He was Z to my P. He hit me early with bling/ling combo and I could never recover. He had Lords hit my base at like 13 minutes. I never had a chance and was mad about it so I made him destroy everything rather than quit. I'm a sore loser sometime.

[Little Raven]

I now dont do hydras to counter mutas anymore, i feel i give up way too much map control, had few games before where i did that, and then he pretty much kept me confined the whole game and then finished me with lords.

Hydras counter mutas just fine, the trick is not to wait.

Assuming you and your enemy have relatively equal economies, then he who wins the first muta battle wins the skies. You won't be able to counter his mutas with your own. You COULD do Corrupters, but they can't shoot ground at all until you convert them to Broodlords, and no good player will give you that much time.

Instead, make a decent roach force, and a few hydras. (depending on how many mutas he has, 4-6 may well be enough. Then head out. Remember, mutas suck in a head-on fight until the ball gets ridiculously large. Don't give him that much time. Roaches move in, start killing stuff. He'll have to pull mutas to counter. Defend with hydras. You'll be amazed how often this works.

Now, if your opponent is really good, he'll have spined up to prevent this from happening. If he has, then it's back to a macro game you go...since you know he won't be hitting you with a big ground force any time soon. Just spore up and your bases and try to get a third.

Congrats on Silver! I'm on a epic losing stream, myself. Ick.

[stessier]

Since January 29, I've been tracking a bunch of stuff about every game I play. I thought it would be interesting to post some of the results.

I don't veto any of the maps. I'm kind of surprised it is so even given how much I've read about people vetoing them.

Code: Select all

      
Map                      Loss    Win   Grand Total   
Blistering Sands          2       2            4   
Delta Quadrant            2       2            4   
Lost Temple               3       2            5   
Metalopolis               2       3            5   
Scrap Station             2       2            4   
Shakuras Plateau          4       3            7   
Steppes of War            3       4            7   
Xel'Nagra Caverns         0       2            2   
Grand Total              18      20           38   


Looks like I have some issues with Protoss. Kind of makes sense as I only concentrated on them for 25 wins whereas I got Terran to 100 and Zerg to 50 before going random. The 'r' before the race is my designation for starting the game as Random. Also, seems like I am in line for a lot of Z and T in my future.

Code: Select all

               
Race           Loss       Win         Grand Total   
rP               13         6               19   
rT                3         8               11   
rZ                2         6                8   
Grand Total      18        20               38   

Or maybe it's just the matchups I have to work on...

Code: Select all

                   Win / Loss          Total
Race          P        T       Z             
rP           1/5      3/4     2/4      6/13
rT           2/1      5/2     1/0      8/3
rZ           0/0      3/0     3/2      6/2
Total        3/6     11/6     6/6     


Or maybe the opponent's skill.... Bring on them Golds!

Code: Select all

Opp League     Loss     Win     Grand Total   
Placement                2           2
Bronze           6       8          14   
Silver          12       8          20   
Gold                     2           2   
Grand Total     18      20          38   


Or maybe it matters if I am favored. Apparently I love being the underdog.

Code: Select all

Favored     Loss     Win    Grand Total   
Even         14       8          22   
Me            4       7          11   
Them                  5           5   
Grand Total  18      20          38   


I love me some data!!!

[Matrix]

i did win the skies, i find against mutas hydras dont fit my style of play. Though i will be experimenting with them, since they are really good and are cheaper then Mutas.

I dont veto any maps either, since i dont think that at my level of skills maps play much difference aside from, short distance or long distance. The rest is irrelevant. Maybe once i make it to gold, i will pay more attention, but in silver i dont think its the case.

What difference in game skill level between bronze,silver and gold. Rough estimate that is.

[stessier]

What difference in game skill level between bronze,silver and gold. Rough estimate that is.

Beats me. I lose to Bronze and beat Golds.

The Blizzard boards suggest they are pretty much all the same. I suspect the higher you go, the better people are at doing a bunch of things at once. So you'll see better unit groupings and more upgrades. Better expos and scouting. I also think people pick a strategy as they get higher and learn it really well. So you'll see 4-gates with less holes in their timings, for example.

But I really have no idea how you'd quantify that.

[BlottoBot]

I now dont do hydras to counter mutas anymore, i feel i give up way too much map control, had few games before where i did that, and then he pretty much kept me confined the whole game and then finished me with lords.

Hydras counter mutas just fine, the trick is not to wait.

Assuming you and your enemy have relatively equal economies, then he who wins the first muta battle wins the skies. You won't be able to counter his mutas with your own. You COULD do Corrupters, but they can't shoot ground at all until you convert them to Broodlords, and no good player will give you that much time.

Instead, make a decent roach force, and a few hydras. (depending on how many mutas he has, 4-6 may well be enough. Then head out. Remember, mutas suck in a head-on fight until the ball gets ridiculously large. Don't give him that much time. Roaches move in, start killing stuff. He'll have to pull mutas to counter. Defend with hydras. You'll be amazed how often this works.

Now, if your opponent is really good, he'll have spined up to prevent this from happening. If he has, then it's back to a macro game you go...since you know he won't be hitting you with a big ground force any time soon. Just spore up and your bases and try to get a third.

Congrats on Silver! I'm on a epic losing stream, myself. Ick.

best answer to mutas for any race is to just go kill them. If they are forced to hit your army directly they will always die. Mutas are great at harassing a base and armies that dont include air attacks, but they die quickly to anything that can shoot up.

[Matrix]

Beatted platinum guy today, rank 13 zerg vs zerg. He tried to 9 pool + 2 spine crawlers rush, i had to pull off some of my workers but killed his rush. and few zerglings, then he went into roaches and and we had some tough roach battles, ultimately i got mutas sooner then him and over ran him. But after watching replay, i saw that his macro was much better toward the end of the game, and if i didnt strike then, i would have probably lost. Getting golds too, and ironic part just as stessier i tend to beat them and then to lose to silver. Thought i am doing ok so far in my league, win more then lose so far, thats good. 57 wins 44 loses, i Guess i am 6 to 3 in silver league. I dont see easy wins anymore though, in bronze once in a while i would run into complete noob, dont see that now.

PS: i lose more to teran and protos still. i will need to play more with them myself to get the idea from the inside. I am still not sure whats teran and whats protos timing for the most part, i have an idea, but not a clear idea.

[Matrix]

Little Raven, when you getting to diamond 1v1? you are really good, most of our team games today have hinged on you.

[Little Raven]

I would have to PLAY 1v1 first.

Right now, SC is more a social activity for me.

[stessier]

Drat, drat, drat, drat, drat, drat, drat, drat, drat...DRAT!

I was playing a Gold TvT on Sharkuras and my daughter started crying so I asked if I could pause. He said yes, so I took care of things, returned, unpaused, and did something while trying to send a "thanks" that ended the game! I can't believe it! I don't know I would have won, but I was a base, like 15 SCVs up, and 5 barracks to his 3 with a Starport to boot. So annoying!!!

On the plus side, I went 6-1 this morning and 3-3 this afternoon (even with that crummy loss). Seeing about 1 gold a session, which has to be a good sign, right? They can't all be on their way down.

[stessier]

So Protoss - what the heck should I be doing? Anyone have an overall big picture plan they'd care to share? Because right now I'm just getting beat by everything.

The last game I played today (rPvP) I managed to win by going Forge first (which was funny in the replay as he went crazy looking for proxy pylons), then cannoning in my ramp, getting 3 stargates, then building up VRs and moving to Carriers. Had a little issue when 5 DTs materialized in my base (lost my nexus before I could get my Observer into position - but it almost mined out and I had my Natural up and running), but otherwise it went well. 7 fully charged VRs can make short work of a base and a bunch of stalkers.

It feels a little gimicky to go that way all the time. And it was painful to find a way to collect that much gas.

On the plus side - 50 wins as Random! I am an Overseer! That was a nice little surprise.

Finally - to the Silver Zerg who has a crummy outlook on life - If you are going to go muta/ling/bling and you see me march in with MMM backed by Thor, either change plans or make a whole lot more muta/ling/bling rather than expanding. I got the "Terran is so OP. You sucked and you still won." after I stomped a guy who did that. He actually probably could have taken me out when his muta ball hit my base as I was hitting his starting point at the same time, but he chose to retreat and defend rather than wipe me out. As a result, I still took out most of his base (he had 2 others) and my SCVs lived to put up defenses. Then it was just a matter of me making more units than him. Gosh mutas melt to Marine/Thor when they aren't magic boxed! Beautiful sight (when I'm on the T side)!

[WarPanda]

Are you asking for advise playing PVP or just playing as Protoss?

PVP I prefer to go 4 gate. Its safe and reliable. You can go 4 gate stopping at 20 probes or go more defensive and eco by making probes but having a few less units. I have seen lots of toss players playing 3 gate robo which is pretty good but if someone hard 4 gates you, you are likely boned. It is really hard to hold a 4 gate if you do not have one yourself. A good 4 gate can hit you at 6:00min with somewhere around 1 zel and 5-6 stalkers.

Playing as Toss something to remember. you can support 4 unit producing buildings at each base. For instance 4 gates, 3 gate robo, 3 gate stargate etc...

Going fast Dark templars is always fun and often very good against Zerg and Toss. Terrans have the natural counter which is the scan but the nice thing is, is that if you force him to scan to get rid of your dts then he is not making mules giving you the econ edge. If the terran walls off I like going a stargate into VR's. 4 marines can kill a VR so be careful with them but man if he goes hard Mrauders against you its GG.

Here is a few things I do 1v1.

PVP: 4 gate into expand robo to collasus. A nice trick against toss. If he is forcefielding his ramp then place a pylon at the bottom of his ramp and this gives you enough sight to warp up units past the forcefield. Blink stalkers are common in PVP as well. If you have the micro then there awesome.

PVZ 3 gate expand. Forge, hallucinate (for scouting) then whatever I need. Or 3 gate stargate. Sometimes I go one base DT. Put pressure on Zerg. If he is making units he is not making drones. Forcefields for the win against zerg. 4 gate can also work well here.

PvT 3 gate Robo. What I actually do is this....1 gate, 1 robo then eventually 2 more gates. Observer and find out what he is doing first. then proceed accordingly. I find this the safest build against Terrans, especially if he walls off his ramp. If he does not wall off then you can rush him easily.

[stessier]

It was general Protoss help, not any specific matchup . I am equally poor at all of them.

Do you read the Blizzard forums at all? If so, have you seen Horst's suggestions of 15 Nexus/forge? It sounds intriguing.

Thanks for the advice. A question about 4 gate since I think I am doing it wrong. Is it Gate Core Gate Gate Gate? Because I've tried a bunch of variations around that and I always seem to have many fewer units than my opponent when I finally hit.

I've tried 2 Gate Robo and it's worked occasionally. Immortals can be very nice.

I think I need to find a way to play with you guys at night a few more times to see more of this stuff in action.

[WarPanda]

I have read and practiced many openings. The 15 nexus Fast expand including the forge can be pulled off. I have used this against zerg. Problem is with good scouting they will see you do this then you will have a hard time if they decide to all in on you and give you strong pressure. Even if you wall in your nat you are likely to see a whole lot of roaches busting down the door. Try it out though might fit your playstyle.

Against Terran a fast expand is also a good idea. Again the same problems can occur. It can be hold to hold it but if you do you will be Way ahead.

Many ways to do a 4 gate but I use this one. gate, gas, core, 1 zel, 1 stalker, 3 gates. OR gate,gas, core, 1 zel 1 stalker, gate, then 2 more gates. Usually when your warpgate is about halfway done you want all your remaining gates building. If you do it right the gates are done building and your warp gate finishes at the same time.

Make sure you move out with your 1 zel and stalker and a probe and that your pylon is placed before all your gates come online with warp gate. Then warp in four units at the pylon by the opponents base. Save your chronoboosts. You want a 100 chronos ready so that after you warp in your first 4 units you chrono your gates, warp in another 4 and attack.

Yeah I think if you and I play some night I can show you a bunch of openings and tricks. Lots of ways to do the four gate but you mostly want to shoot for the 6 min mark to attack. On some maps you can hide your scouting probe in the opponents base. If you can do this once your first attack begins, build a pylon just before you hit. Then warp in 4 zels and go for the mineral line as your attacking. Its nasty and will probably win you the game.

[stessier]

I think one of my biggest problems is I don't expand fast enough. I'm definitely going to try to make one night this week. Probably not tonight though. I suspect that wouldn't go over very well.

[Matrix]

My silver league journey continues, lost a game that was mine. Did roach attack harass, he defended it but and i killed a lot of his workers and made him a lot of defense, but didnt realize just by how much i was ahead. 19 drones to his 12 drones, from replay. I was way way ahead and should have crushed him with my second wave of roaches. But i sadly went for econ expand and fast mutas, while he massed roaches and countered taking out my expo. Was down hill from there, but during the game, i had no idea i was so ahead of him in econ. Lesson for the next time.
Protos mas ball still has his way with me, i often win protos if they try to be overly aggressive early on, but i think i have lost every time so far vs protos ball. On the bright side, i seem to own terran at silver level. Finally did good macro game i am happy about, was against passive terran, i went for early second base and mass queens (thought he going to banshee me) , then focused on my econ. I still have way too many resourses in the end of the game, but on bright side, my macro was way ahead of him, and zerg bainling with some muta in the end, never gave him much chance. It was funny how he tried to do mini drops into my base, while with huge hoard of zerglings and bainlings right under it.

Once i reach gold level, i will start practicing on terran and protos. I think in team games i will be doing a lot more of those, since i still dont understand timing on protos nor terran on level that i should.

[stessier]

Since Friday, I've started recording how long each game takes as well. Played 36 games since then and these are the results

Code: Select all

              Win              Loss
Min            0.0             4.0
Average       16.5            16.1
Max           36.0            25.0

Sum          347.0           257.0

I can't believe the averages are so close. I thought for sure it took longer for me to win.

Also, 604 minutes in 3 days.

[Matrix]

And i thought i like data )

very interesting.