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BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

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D.A.Lewis
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by D.A.Lewis »

Turtle wrote:
D.A.Lewis wrote: Thanks
I swapped out my mouse with my work mouse and the game plays alot better. Sorta funny because the work mouse is a cheap 15 dollar jopper and the prior gaming mouse was 70 dollar gaming mouse extraordinaire.
Did you try cleaning the sensor on your gaming mouse? Either blowing into the hole, or using a cotton swab with alcohol?
Yeah, I did all that (shades of the old ball tracker mouse). I was never really happy with that gaming mouse and it's about 5 years old. OTOH, my cheap work mouse in only 2 years old. Perhaps now that the gaming mouse is on punishment doing work related duties only, it might decide to act better if I swap it back in the first chair. I think I'll let the guy stew for a bit . . .
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Doomboy
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Doomboy »

I'm really not enjoying Infinite. Just not at all. The two weapon limit really sucks. The combat is not very interesting. It is just frantically zipping hither and yon trying to kill things with whatever weapons I can find. Mostly because I can only carry two weapons, and they run out of ammo quickly.

I don't care for the powers either. Most of them are very dull. Also, trying to figure out which two powers you need for the combat at hand is annoying. Why did they limit how many powers and weapons I can have?

Also, the starter weapons are pretty much useless by the end of the game, even if I keep on increasing their damage and ammo and reload speed. Whatever effect those things have on the weapons seems minimal at best. I haven't noticed the guns getting any more powerful after upgrading. And the late game weapons that seem to be able to do some damage just haven't got enough ammo to be useful.

I can appreciate what they tried to do, I just don't think they succeeded very well. I don't find myself wanting to play. I find I'm forcing myself to play. I really want to get to the end game and see whatever the interesting secret is at the heart of it, but the whole game is desperately trying to keep me from getting there.

I also disagree that they took the escort mission and made it fun. I get so pissed at Elizabeth. She is constantly running in front of me and pushing me aside. One time, she actually pushed me off to my death. Sure, I had jumped off of a line onto a platform and was very close to the edge, but I wasn't moving, and she came into view just as I was pushed off. So she killed me.

Also, I hate the rail things. I can never actually get onto them when I want to. In the middle of a combat, I am running, trying to get on one as guys are shooting me from all sides, and I end up just jumping up and down, somehow missing the hotspot that would take me onto the line.

So, I guess I don't really like the game. Shame I bought the season pass too. Whoops. I really did like Bioshock. And I liked Bioshock 2 well enough, although I never managed to finish it. Infinite just doesn't work for me. All the setting stuff and story is good. The combat, the meat of the game, stinks.

So I fight through the crappy combat sequences to get some more story, and as the game progresses, there is more and more annoying combat, and fewer interesting tidbits.

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Turtle
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Turtle »

You have all your powers available at all times.

If you're playing on PC, you can use the number keys to select a power, or hold down the Q key which will pop up a radial menu and pause the game while you select a new power.

You're meant to switch more weapons on the fly, unless you happen to have upgrades that lets you get more ammo, or search a lot.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Baroquen »

I'm extremely early in. Was somewhat turned off by the "wax museum" nature of the beginning. ie walking past people just standing and staring at you with no way to interact. The poor default mouse sensitivity was a problem for awhile, until I finally got it "just right". Now that the combat has started, it feels more like the bioshocks of old, and I'm actually enjoying it more. Can't decide if I'm enjoying the setting, but it definitely has character.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Lordnine »

Doomboy wrote:

Also, I hate the rail things. I can never actually get onto them when I want to. In the middle of a combat, I am running, trying to get on one as guys are shooting me from all sides, and I end up just jumping up and down, somehow missing the hotspot that would take me onto the line.
Attaching to the rails is automatic. Look up at the rail until you see it highlighted and just hold spacebar and you will jump the entire distance.

I also have to wonder what difficulty you are playing on. Playing on normal I had no problems with combat or any of the weapons. Actually, by the end of the game my equipment was maxed out to the point where I just started picking up random weapons to get the kills achievements with each of them. That said, I vastly preferred the non-burst weapons. Aim for the head and it is almost always a one shot kill. This works great when combined with the electrical trap power. Stun a whole room and then pick them off one at a time.

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Doomboy
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Doomboy »

I'm playing it on normal, and I don't feel overpowered. I've maxed out my shields and health, and yet I still spend way too much time looking for health packs or dying. I relied on the shock power for quite a while, but it doesn't seem to do much anymore at the point I am in the game.

Mostly it is the big set piece battles that I have trouble with. Seemingly endless waves of patriots and handymen. With lots of little dudes who keep my shields down because they seem to be everywhere, and I can't get a break from being shot at.

I think I have died about 20 times so far. The fight I am in right now seems to have no end, and it starts the game at the last checkpoint when I eventually lose.

I can never seem to get one shot kills anymore either. Except on the lowliest bad guys.

I guess it is time to switch to easy. Just so I can see the end of the game. Because I am not enjoying the fights much. Some of them were fun. But mostly they just annoy me with the constant overwhelming at the point I am at.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Teggy »

Not every game clicks with every person, but I certainly had a different experience.

I played on Normal with a controller. I agree, I didn't love the 2 weapon limit, but I decided early on to play with machine gun and RPG pretty much exclusively and they worked very well after leveling them up. I never felt that they were underpowered and you get them very early in the game. I'm not sure why you are expecting to one-shot anyone. Maybe with the RPG or the hand cannon, but I don't think most of the weapons are designed for one-shot kills. The only time I had an ammo issue was at the very end of the game where I wound up having to pick up what was available.

Regarding the vigors, I made liberal use of Possession from the get-go, especially with turrets or Patriots around. My other go-to was Bucking Bronco followed by Charge (very fun) or Bucking Bronco followed by Undertow (especially good near ledges) or really just Bucking Bronco followed by machine gun, which worked quite well.

I also quite liked the rails since they gave you the ability to stay on the move and usually could transport you to cover. The rail dive melee move is also very good.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Lordnine »

There are a couple fights where you need to do something specific to end the fight. Are you sure you are not being asked to destroy an objective?

Also, when dealing with Patriots just use possession on them. The enemies will kill them for you and you will get a powerful ally.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Turtle »

Yep, make sure you use powers. Salts are rather easily replenished late game since you get the right gear, or Elizabeth will find them.

Now that you know you can use any power at any time, it should be easier.

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Doomboy
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Doomboy »

Maybe I failed to level up my vigors. Or the right ones. Possession is the one I used the most, but it never lasted long. Neither did the electrical one.

I also never upgraded the RPG, because I didn't like it. So the last battle was very tough. That was the last battle I was stuck on. Switched to easy, and beat it the second try. I guess my choices through the game led to a very difficult final battle. I did rely on the big handgun, and for a long time, the fire shotgun. But those both run out of ammo often in a fight.

In every previous fight, a certain someone would provide me with enough ammo. In this last fight, I was often out of ammo, and since the fire shotgun has no range, I switched to the unoptimized RPG for long range damage.

Possessed patriots only fight for me for about 30 seconds, and then they are back to shooting me. And the bigger bad guys shake off the effect and don't do what the lesser guys do, which was very useful. So I stopped using it as much, and didn't upgrade it. I fully upgraded the Return to Sender vigor, and that is great until you run out of salts.

Anyway, it is done. I may or may not play again. Maybe after all the DLC is out.

As for the ending...
Spoiler:
I guessed early on that she was supposed to be DeWitt's daughter. Not sure why that occurred to me, but it did. So no surprise there. The whole infinite dimensions thing was cool. But not as mind blowing for me as it apparently was for others. I guess I have done a lot of thinking about such topics up to now in my life. So that just left me with the DeWitt/Comstock thing, which just falls apart if you poke it.

For one thing, apparently people in other dimensions that are you have the same last name. So why the different name? Also, they are different ages, which also doesn't jibe with what we were shown up to then.

And then there is the whole bit where Slate fought with both Booker and Comstock against the Indians and Chinese, and loved Booker for being a hero, while despising Comstock for a show stealing coward. How could they both be the same person from different dimensions fighting in one of them?

The ending just doesn't feel like something we were building toward the whole time. It felt like the ending of Lost. Not like the ending of Bioshock, which was hinted at throughout the game, and still managed to be a huge surprising twist. This just felt "meh" to me.
At least I managed to finish it. That is a rare feat these days.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Sarkus »

Doomboy wrote:As for the ending...
Spoiler:
I guessed early on that she was supposed to be DeWitt's daughter. Not sure why that occurred to me, but it did. So no surprise there. The whole infinite dimensions thing was cool. But not as mind blowing for me as it apparently was for others. I guess I have done a lot of thinking about such topics up to now in my life. So that just left me with the DeWitt/Comstock thing, which just falls apart if you poke it.

For one thing, apparently people in other dimensions that are you have the same last name. So why the different name? Also, they are different ages, which also doesn't jibe with what we were shown up to then.

And then there is the whole bit where Slate fought with both Booker and Comstock against the Indians and Chinese, and loved Booker for being a hero, while despising Comstock for a show stealing coward. How could they both be the same person from different dimensions fighting in one of them?

The ending just doesn't feel like something we were building toward the whole time. It felt like the ending of Lost. Not like the ending of Bioshock, which was hinted at throughout the game, and still managed to be a huge surprising twist. This just felt "meh" to me.
At least I managed to finish it. That is a rare feat these days.
To answer some of your questions:
Spoiler:
The DeWitt/Comstock thing works this way - DeWitt fought at Wounded Knee as a younger man. At some point after he left the army he had the opportunity to be baptized. In the late 19th century people often accepted baptism to become a new person - literally. So in some realities, DeWitt walks out of the baptism and remains DeWitt (we see that scene recreated in the last chapter of the game) but in other realities DeWitt went through with the baptism and became known as Comstock. In the Comstock realities he was exposed to the equipment and such of travelling through dimensions repeatedly, which not only made him sterile, it aged him and it ultimately gave him incurable cancer. All of this is explained in the game.

Slate didn't realize that the Comstock in his dimension had once been DeWitt. Presumably because he had limited interaction with Comstock and because by the time Columbia came along Comstock had aged so much it didn't occur to Slate it was the same man he had known earlier. So when DeWitt from another dimension shows up (the player), he simply thinks its the DeWitt he hasn't seen in years and years.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by $iljanus »

Just powered through to finish up the game last night. I think being a big Fringe/Doctor Who fan helped my appreciation and understanding of what was going on in the story.

It would have been really awesome if they looked through one of the tears and saw Walter Bishop staring back on the other side saying, "Astro! Quick! Come look at this!"
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Daehawk »

My friend said he is totally disappointed in this game. When I asked why he said because Beth is not wearing the cleavage inducing outfit from the previews :) he calls her Dowdy Dutchess or some stuff. haha. Said to give me the game I dont mind....he said for now he'll keep playing and see if she changes hahaha. Actually he said its pretty damn cool.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by naednek »

Daehawk wrote:My friend said he is totally disappointed in this game. When I asked why he said because Beth is not wearing the cleavage inducing outfit from the previews :) he calls her Dowdy Dutchess or some stuff. haha. Said to give me the game I dont mind....he said for now he'll keep playing and see if she changes hahaha. Actually he said its pretty damn cool.
isn't Elizabeth like 13 years old.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Teggy »

naednek wrote:
Daehawk wrote:My friend said he is totally disappointed in this game. When I asked why he said because Beth is not wearing the cleavage inducing outfit from the previews :) he calls her Dowdy Dutchess or some stuff. haha. Said to give me the game I dont mind....he said for now he'll keep playing and see if she changes hahaha. Actually he said its pretty damn cool.
isn't Elizabeth like 13 years old.
No, she is 20.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by JayDeath »

This is a really great, fun game until the end. I played through on hard setting and did fine until the end. I can not finish the end! I've tried most stategies that I've seen or read but I can't beat it. I even tried dropping the skill level and I still can't finish it. I guess I could try the easy setting. I have always hated game stopper moments and this is one of them for me. I haven't tried to finish it in like 3 week. I guess I could online and watch the ending as I will probably never finish. It's a shame too because I had a great time with this game until the end.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Lordnine »

JayDeath wrote:This is a really great, fun game until the end.
Spoiler:
I’m guessing you’re at the big airship battle. Have you tried laying down traps around the objective? If you found either of the skyline invulnerability items they can make a huge different here as well; just keep jumping to and from the skyline with dive attacks and it’s impossible to die.

Also, something I didn’t realize at first but you don’t have to manually disable the large air ships, just send big bird to do it for you.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Kyosho »

Jaydeath:
Spoiler:
I couldn't beat it either until godhugh's help earlier in the thread (page 3). I hadn't been using the RPG the whole game, as I wasn't interested. It ended up being the key for that battle. There's a crate of them, so endless rockets. Also, using shock traps on the patriots worked wonders. Even though I played the whole game with shock jockey, I never used traps. My shock jockey was fully upgraded though, so that worked nicely. So, if necessary, try this strategy of RPGs, traps, and use songbird for the deck until the big airships at the end of the battle, then send him for those. Switch it up when necessary.
After beating my head against the wall endlessly, after godhugh's advice, I beat it first try.


Oh, and in regards to everyone's conversation on the ending..
Spoiler:
Early on I thought perhaps Liz was his daughter, and also thought Comstock was Booker. However, it didn't ruin anything. In fact, it just made it all the more satisfying. Usually when I guess the twist early, it ruins it. Not here. I suppose because there was no way I could've guessed exactly how the events had played out. The game kinda blew my mind in that sense. It was so well done.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by naednek »

naednek wrote:Ya the checkpoints is a non-issue for me. I just play the game not worrying about OMG I have to save!!! It does it for me and it saves often enough that it's not a problem. I think people just freak out, just to freak out.
Well shit, I just ate a lot of it.

I just beat the part (late game spoiler)
Spoiler:
where you're on the comstock's ship fighting the Vox,
and I died right when I successfully defended comstock's ship (electructed the last guy while I died)
and I was revived by Elizabeth, but now I'm stuck on the corner and I can't move. My objective is to meet Elizabeth at a certain spot, but I can't do anything I've tried exiting and reloading and it comes up the in the same state. And because of the checkpoints I have no previous save point to reload.

Fuck, I hope I can find a hack
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by naednek »

guess the only fix is to reload the chapter :(
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by naednek »

i have a lot of reading to do. Just finished the game.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by naednek »

gbasden wrote:I think this game has to have just jumped into my top 10. I absolutely loved the story line. Maybe I'm dense, but I thought it was going in a completely different direction. The last 20 minutes just kept me on the edge of my seat.
My wife was heading to bed and after about 6 times of replaying the final battle, I finally beat it and she was ready to say good night and chit chat. I had to politely say, I have no way to pause and this part is like LOST where you have to pay attention otherwise I'll be lost. Felt bad, but man I wasn't going to replay it once more.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by naednek »

I feel like Kasey Chang, talking to myself :P
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by JayDeath »

Thanks for the tips. I will try them tonite.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by $iljanus »

naednek wrote:I feel like Kasey Chang, talking to myself :P
That's because we're all busy watching the end of BioShock Infinite after beating the last battle! :P
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Hipolito »

Well, Bioshock did it to me again. I got reeled in by the anticipation and said, "OK, this time I'll like a Bioshock game." Fail, fail, fail again.

The story, in retrospect, is quite good in concept and ambitious in scope. But it's so disjointed in the telling that I didn't enjoy it as it unfolded. First, it's about the Founders and the Vox Populi. Then it's about Elizabeth and her mom. Then it's a metaphysical candyland. It's almost as if each part of the story annihilates what came before and forgets it ever happened. It's a bold but shallow storytelling approach. The details about Lutece, told through the occasional and vague audio recording, were lost on me until I read that Neogaf thread linked earlier.

Much is made of the dialogue and voice acting, but I feel they're just OK, not exceptional. I think the game misses some opportunities to be emotionally resonant and to study, with some depth, the mindsets of the peoples of Columbia. The dialogue and recordings are reactive instead of introspective, informative instead of reflective. This, combined with the excessively glowy look of the land, make the game feel more like a showy Broadway number than an intelligent play.

Elizabeth is an eye-popping beauty and it's fun to watch her stare into garbage cans and receive her assistance in combat. But she doesn't beat Half-Life 2's Alyx Vance as a companion. Alyx felt more like a real person and I got a real sense of what her life had been like and how she felt about everyone else. With Elizabeth, I felt that she was holding back even though this should have been the craziest time in her life.

It would have helped if I had been a better student of history. I only had a vague idea about Wounded Knee and thought the Pinkertons were a faction invented for the game, not a real agency. I should have read a primer before playing.

I'm not a shooter fan, but this wasn't so bad. I enjoyed the Charge spell the most because it felt so powerful, falling back on Possession, burstgun, and RPG as backups. I tried to make good use of the Skylines, but I'm still not proficient at using a gamepad so my attempts at air-fu were usually wasted. The final battle was a neat challenge that required several attempts even on Easy mode. (It's also a little buggy; one time, the enemies simply stopped attacking even though they were still yelling. Nothing more would happen so I had to reload the checkpoint save.)

I enjoyed the kooky stuff the game did with music. The most striking part of the game for me (link to major spoiler follows) was this subliminal movie reel. The sadness of the narration, the weird imagery, and the distorted Canon playing in the background made a mesmerizing combination. And it took place in a part of the story filled with so much doom and pain. This little masterpiece of a moment left me transfixed and in disbelief that I was experiencing it in a game.

There weren't enough moments like that. For me, the Minerva's Den DLC for Bioshock 2 remains the best Bioshock game. Tears were shed at the end of that. Shoulders were shrugged at the end of Infinite.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Scoop20906 »

Just finished Bioshock Infinite. I really enjoyed the experience and the game play. The story was hard to follow at times but I enjoyed the way it was presented. Somethings were unclear until the last moment and even them I'm still puzzled over.
Spoiler:
For example, how Comstock was a baptized and saved Dewitt in another universe. I can understand he needed a child from his line so he took the one that Dewitt was willing to give up but that never explained by Elizabeth (or Anna) and her special powers. I would have liked that to be explained as well.
But overall, a great game and nice achievement in story telling. I really fell for Elizabeth. It's amazing when things like can happen.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Sepiche »

About Elizabeth...
Spoiler:
It's easy to miss, but if I recall it's explained there toward the end: because that portal severed her finger she technically exists across multiple dimensions, and somehow that's what gives her the power to manipulate the tears.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Daehawk »

It was explained.
Spoiler:
Those twin scientist experimented on her on order of Comstock.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Scoop20906 »

I guess that makes more sense.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Daehawk »

Spoiler:
Ya I dont recall where it was but somewhere i learned she was just normal when she was taken.And through manipulations and exposure to rifts she gained her tear powers.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Scuzz »

So I just finished the first Bioshock. I have two ready on STeam. How much do these games relate to each other? Which is the best of the series?

I would have to say I died more playing Bioshock 1 than any game I can remember.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Baroquen »

I finished and enjoyed the first one quite a bit. The second, I've started a couple of times and haven't gotten through it. Infinite - I finished, but can't say I really enjoyed it. The graphics were nice, and the story was ambitious, but I wasn't having that much fun. The game engine felt artificial, in that there was so much that you couldn't interact with, though I suppose this was very similar to the other bioshocks. It just didn't catch my fancy, but I'd probably recommend Infinite because so many others found it enjoyable. And thinking back, there were some enjoyable parts to it with level design and weapons/powers.

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Lordnine
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Lordnine »

Scuzz wrote: Which is the best of the series?
I would rate them as:
Bioshock
Infinity

….
…..
…….
Bioshock 2

Infinity had a weak start but starting about 2 hours in is one of the better stories to be told in a game. Bioshock 2 was just a retread of the first with an inferior story.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by godhugh »

Bioshock is greatness.
Bioshock 2 improves on combat in almost every way and has a very good story as well.
Bioshock Infinite has an epic story but the combat isn't quite as good in BS2.

That said, they're all classics and should be played.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Turtle »

1. Bioshock

2. Bioshock 2: Minerva's Den
2. Infinite *Tied

3. Bioshock 2

I had issues with the overall storytelling of everything except Booker's tale. I think they could have made the city more than just window dressing that it became.

Meanwhile, Minerva's Den is still what I consider the best Bioshock sequel ever, even if it is DLC for Bioshock 2. The story is way more interesting, and they condense all of B2's progression into a shorter story. All the fun, none of the drawn out predictability of B2.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by xwraith »

Finally got past the last part and finished the game.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I figured she was his daughter real early, but somehow I dismissed that Booker == Comstock until the very end with the place of many doors.
I forgot to call it "a box of pure malevolent evil, a purveyor of
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Jaymann »

Late to the party (waited for the summer sale) and really enjoyed it. Liked the exploration and side quests (not enough!) more than the fighting. Made it all the way through with machine gun & sniper rifle, and used possession almost exclusively. It is so sweet because it creates an ally plus a distraction, and usually gives a kill. I think they missed an opportunity with the tears. If you could have called up sky hooks anywhere (at least while not in combat), it could have led to some interesting hidden areas.

Not really much replay value (harder? - no thanks). But it left me wanting more, so I picked up Bioshock 2.
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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Hipolito »

Jaymann wrote:I think they missed an opportunity with the tears. If you could have called up sky hooks anywhere (at least while not in combat), it could have led to some interesting hidden areas.
That would have been cool. Also if there were more puzzles that required the use of certain spells. I think there were a few of them, but not nearly as many as in Bioshock 1/2.

There are a couple of things that would have made the final sequence of events better in my opinion. Major Bioshock Infinite spoilers:
Spoiler:
You know how towards the end of Bioshock Infinite when you're visiting alternate universes, and of them is Rapture? That's a great moment, but what if you also visited the first level, the healing suites, from System Shock? Not a lot of people would have gotten it, but I would have loved it.

When you're pushed underwater for your final, circle-breaking "baptism," some sad piano music plays. I think it would have been better if they'd played "God Only Knows" during this part. The song would have taken on a whole new meaning.

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Re: BioShock Infinite - from Irrational

Post by Daehawk »

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