Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android etc]
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- coopasonic
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC!
Yeah, I am not saying they shouldn't have to explain, just throwing some thoughts out there as a mostly disinterested bystander.
It looks like they are going to have no trouble funding, so you can wait and see anyway.
It looks like they are going to have no trouble funding, so you can wait and see anyway.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC!
I think they explained things reasonably well in the announcement that Archinerd posted a few months ago.
And their P500 pre-order system only bills when the product ships, not at the time you place your order. The only party that lost money on that first attempt was GMT.
That's polite business-speak for "the developers we picked did such a shitty job that their work was un-salvageable."As many of you may remember, when we first put our Electronic PC version of Twilight Struggle on our P500 list, I assured you guys that there was no way I was going to charge your cards or release that game unless I was satisfied that it would deliver a high-quality game experience, comparable to the other most popular boardgame to electronic conversions. Regrettably, after a long and challenging development process, I have come to the conclusion that the current PC version will not meet that standard, at least not in any reasonable time frame.
And their P500 pre-order system only bills when the product ships, not at the time you place your order. The only party that lost money on that first attempt was GMT.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC!
Yeah, but now they push that risk to the backers, who, if they fail again, are out their money regardless of the outcome. I will wait for the release and reviews, as I really don't want to put my funds at risk on a "take 2" situation.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC!
If you're talking about GMT's P500 program, they don't charge until the game is ready to ship. You might wait two or three years before that happens, but they won't take your money before it does.tgb wrote:I went to pre-order and they wanted credit card information. Perhaps they held cards to charge when the game shipped. I don't know because I never actually ordered it.
Perhaps they didn't charge cards and perhaps this is a more reliable developer, but to not even address all the issues around the first attempt at development is disingenuous, at best.
As for Playdek, they look pretty solid. Their iOS versions of Agricola and Waterdeep seem to have satisfied lots of people. And it's notable that the Kickstarter sponsor is GMT itself, not the developer team. I've never been anything but impressed with GMT customer service, so I'm starting to thing this won't be a debacle like most of the money I've Kickstarted away.
Ooooohh, and this is interesting. An expansion to the original TS that you can get in physical form as well as with the game:
To help us out with this Kickstarter campaign, Ananda Gupta and Jason Matthews have come together once more to create a new expansion for Twilight Struggle called Twilight Struggle: What If?! This expansion is going to be brand new, and you will be able to receive a digital copy, a physical copy, or even both depending on your backer tier!
Twilight Struggle: What If? is a new mini-expansion that lets players explore alternate starting situations for the two superpowers. What if Chiang's forces had held on in southern China? What if Churchill's Tories had won re-election in 1945? And what if the Western Allies had crossed the bridge too far, and reached Berlin first? These and other possibilities that alter the opening setup in Twilight Struggle are now open to players. Both seasoned veterans and new arrivals will enjoy the many new plays and dilemmas introduced here for the first time. This expansion will contain 8 cards, one set of charts and tables, and the rules on how to play with the expansion.
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- tgb
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
For those of you who have backed it for $30 or more - they are promising access to the Beta. Is it out yet? And if so, how is it and how complete? If there is an NDA in effect, answer as completely as you can. If there is really a beta available I may just eat my words and cough up $30.
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
There's probably not an alpha yet.
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Now the news!
If you backed TS and you're in the Steam beta, the latest update finally includes AI play.
If you backed TS and you're in the Steam beta, the latest update finally includes AI play.
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- baelthazar
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
About time. Although I guess I could have been playing with OO people this whole time.
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
The AI is actually pretty good, and being able to play a full game in about an hour is great. I haven't seen it make it boneheaded moves, and it's obviously aware of the scoring cards it holds and when to play them.
There might be some interface issues still. A few cards don't always seem to be playable as events ("Formosa Resolution" for the U.S. and "Red Scare" for the U.S.S.R., maybe others). [It's possible that today's new update fixed this.]
I've played a few games as the U.S. into the late-war era, and I've yet to see the U.S.S.R. AI spend points on China (or, thus, use the China Card). This probably means the Chinese Civil War variant doesn't yet work.
I'm having fun with it!
There might be some interface issues still. A few cards don't always seem to be playable as events ("Formosa Resolution" for the U.S. and "Red Scare" for the U.S.S.R., maybe others). [It's possible that today's new update fixed this.]
I've played a few games as the U.S. into the late-war era, and I've yet to see the U.S.S.R. AI spend points on China (or, thus, use the China Card). This probably means the Chinese Civil War variant doesn't yet work.
I'm having fun with it!
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- El Guapo
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Personally I have been dubious about whether it's worth it for the USSR to put points into China anyway.
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I thought the Chinese Civil War variant was a game balancer. Wasn't it added to a second edition in order to soften the early-game advantage of the USSR?El Guapo wrote:Personally I have been dubious about whether it's worth it for the USSR to put points into China anyway.
The China Card is very useful, and I love to have it in play.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Yes, it's a USSR 'nerf', since in vanilla TS the Soviet player starts with the China Card for free. And yes, the China card is very useful. BUT the Soviets have to pay 3 IPs and use part or all of a turn in order to get it, and then the US player is going to get it for free (zero IPs, zero turns used) once the Soviets have used it.Holman wrote:I thought the Chinese Civil War variant was a game balancer. Wasn't it added to a second edition in order to soften the early-game advantage of the USSR?El Guapo wrote:Personally I have been dubious about whether it's worth it for the USSR to put points into China anyway.
The China Card is very useful, and I love to have it in play.
I haven't played in awhile, but playing the Soviets it generally seemed preferable to use IPs on whatever region is currently on fire, rather than use influence and money in order to get a couple IPs a little bit earlier than the US gets them.
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
The China Card is obviously useful towards Asia Scoring, but it also provides a cushion against any really bad card staring at you from your hand.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Right. Again, I'm not questioning the usefulness of the China Card. I'm questioning whether it is worth it to the Soviets when you expend the full cost (time and influence) to get the card but both players get the benefit. Obviously the Soviets get it first, but I don't know that the expenditure of influence and time is worth that.Holman wrote:The China Card is obviously useful towards Asia Scoring, but it also provides a cushion against any really bad card staring at you from your hand.
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- El Guapo
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
As for the game itself, I'm mainly excited for it to be out on Android, as it would be awesome to be able to play against the AI on the go (or ideally PBEM-style against another person).
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- NickAragua
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Looked up the rules and it looks like there are some minor consequences for the soviets leaving the china space alone in the civil war variant - a few event cards get tilted slightly towards the US, which could possibly cost the USSR a couple of victory points (most notably a -1 penalty for the USSR on the Korean War event). So I guess it's one of those things you do if the American player whiffs on a coup and you've got extra cards to spend.
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I selected PC for my platform, but then at the end I added an iOS copy (for my iPad) for just five more bucks.
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- tgb
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Where did you order it? Is there a release date yet? The game is really up my alley but I never had a chance to try it since none of my friends are board gamers.
How's the learning curve for a noob like me?
How's the learning curve for a noob like me?
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I don't think there's a release date yet, but it's pretty polished and must be getting close. I'm in the beta on Steam because I backed the Kickstarter.tgb wrote:Where did you order it? Is there a release date yet? The game is really up my alley but I never had a chance to try it since none of my friends are board gamers.
How's the learning curve for a noob like me?
The learning curve is easy for the actual mechanics. There are hustlers who memorize every card played and finesse the reshuffles, but it's not a hard game to play and enjoy. The sense of narrative is great.
I really hope GMT will hire Playdek to use this same engine and implement the COIN games with it.
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- El Guapo
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Easy to learn - a lifetime to master.tgb wrote:Where did you order it? Is there a release date yet? The game is really up my alley but I never had a chance to try it since none of my friends are board gamers.
How's the learning curve for a noob like me?
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- Isgrimnur
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I've opted out of the new shooter rotation. This might be the first game in a long time that I pay full price for.
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I just read that TS is set to launch on Steam this Wednesday, April 13.
Having backed the Kickstarter, I've been playing the beta, and I'm really impressed with it. The presentation captures everything in the boardgame.
(I don't know when iOS or other implementations are coming.)
Having backed the Kickstarter, I've been playing the beta, and I'm really impressed with it. The presentation captures everything in the boardgame.
(I don't know when iOS or other implementations are coming.)
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
How is the AI?Holman wrote:I just read that TS is set to launch on Steam this Wednesday, April 13.
Having backed the Kickstarter, I've been playing the beta, and I'm really impressed with it. The presentation captures everything in the boardgame.
(I don't know when iOS or other implementations are coming.)
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I'm sure you would kick its ass, but it has beaten me fair and square a few times.El Guapo wrote:How is the AI?Holman wrote:I just read that TS is set to launch on Steam this Wednesday, April 13.
Having backed the Kickstarter, I've been playing the beta, and I'm really impressed with it. The presentation captures everything in the boardgame.
(I don't know when iOS or other implementations are coming.)
It's respectable, I think. It definitely knows how to set up for its own scoring cards, and its behavior seems more focused than random. It seems to notice when you appear to be focusing on a region as well.
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- tgb
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Price?
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Dunno that. But you'll find out tomorrow.tgb wrote:Price?
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
It's been on Steam since yesterday, but there's no price set yet.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Although doing more research, it looks like it'll have a price of $15 with a sale of $12 the first week.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I mainly want to play this on my Android phone. My understanding is that the Android version is not out yet - is that a separate purchase? Or if I buy this can I later download it on my phone once that version is ready?
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
This may be the first game in forever that I pay full/launch pricing for.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Separate price, in the works. My KS came with only one key. I figured the steam version could best process the AI.
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- tgb
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Nice price
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
It's probably a separate purchase, as I've never heard of a Steam purchase that carried over into a different platform.El Guapo wrote:I mainly want to play this on my Android phone. My understanding is that the Android version is not out yet - is that a separate purchase? Or if I buy this can I later download it on my phone once that version is ready?
In the Kickstarter, I chose to have my game delivered via Steam, then I tacked on a little extra money for an iOS copy too.
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
That could well be. But it's hard to imagine me sitting at the computer playing the AI in this. But it would be great to fight the Cold War while on the can.Zarathud wrote: I figured the steam version could best process the AI.
Also, I can't help but wonder if they're going to try to take down the Vassal module on this. You'd think a free multiplayer version of this (admittedly, lacking single player) would cut into their sales a bit.
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I hope they won't mess with the VASSAL. GMT has usually been great there.
Technically you can't play the VASSAL module without owning the paper game charts, right?
Technically you can't play the VASSAL module without owning the paper game charts, right?
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- El Guapo
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I dunno specific to TS. I know that it's common in Vassal modules to leave out stuff like that to make it more difficult for people who haven't purchased the physical game to essentially pirate the game via VASSAL; I'm familiar enough with TS that I don't need the charts, so I can't recall if they left them off or not.Holman wrote:I hope they won't mess with the VASSAL. GMT has usually been great there.
Technically you can't play the VASSAL module without owning the paper game charts, right?
But the interests of a computer game diverge a bit as to VASSAL from that of the board game. VASSAL arguably helps board game sales in at least one way, in that it allows people who own the games to actually play them when getting people together is difficult (for, to pick a random example, friends with small children). The computer game is, as far as I can tell, serving largely the same function. The only additional features is the single-player (but I'm always skeptical of the long-term viability of AI in strategy games like this).
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- Holman
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
I would guess that the VASSAL crowd and the PC/tablet/phone crowd are mostly different markets.
Probably the bigger question was whether a $15 computer version (not even a direct GMT product) would damage sales of the $60 physical board game. Apparently they think it's a good move.
Probably the bigger question was whether a $15 computer version (not even a direct GMT product) would damage sales of the $60 physical board game. Apparently they think it's a good move.
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- Defiant
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
Still learning the game (tutorial? pfft. I have played 1960: Making of the President, so at least I understand the style of gameplay)
Still figuring out what everything means, but why does the AI opponent take so long?
Still figuring out what everything means, but why does the AI opponent take so long?
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Re: Twilight Struggle coming to the PC! [and iOS, Android e
So for those that have it, would you recommend picking it up right now while it's on sale?