Torchlight 2, pre- and post-release discussion & impressions

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:14 pm

With Diablo 3 a non-starter for me, what's the status of Torchlight 2?

ibdoomed · Post by **ibdoomed** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:15 pm

Bakhtosh wrote:With Diablo 3 a non-starter for me, what's the status of Torchlight 2?

Vaporware.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:19 pm

Zax was just talking about this I thought. I'm not following the development, but I think calling it vaporware is a bit pre-mature.

Out of curiosity, why is Diablo 3 a non-starter for you?

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:50 pm

From the developer's Twitter feed earlier today:

It will be out before Christmas unless someone on the team dies.

killbot737 · Post by **killbot737** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:51 pm

Aw crap, Christmas? What am I supposed to play in November? I had it all planned out! Curse you Ordrak!

Butterknife · Post by **Butterknife** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:20 pm

I'm going to get both. One can never have too many action RPGs.

ibdoomed · Post by **ibdoomed** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:49 pm

AWS260 wrote:From the developer's Twitter feed earlier today:
It will be out before Christmas unless someone on the team dies.

It was originally spring, then June, now late december... sounds like DNF...

And never trust twitter, bunch of twits.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:13 pm

GreenGoo wrote:Zax was just talking about this I thought. I'm not following the development, but I think calling it vaporware is a bit pre-mature.

Out of curiosity, why is Diablo 3 a non-starter for you?

1) I don't have a stable internet connection - it actually went down on me while I was typing this and I lost my post.
2) Internet usage is capped at 5GB/mo.
3) Right now, we're using about 6GB/mo ($10 for every GB over 5). I have to download games at work, back them up to a USB key, and restore them at home. Then I get online long enough to activate the game before dropping back into offline mode.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:26 pm

ibdoomed wrote:
AWS260 wrote:From the developer's Twitter feed earlier today:
It will be out before Christmas unless someone on the team dies.
It was originally spring, then June, now late december... sounds like DNF...

And never trust twitter, bunch of twits.

For it to "sound like Duke Nukem Forever" your statement would have to say: "it was originally spring 2011, then June 2016, now late December 2030..."

Geez... "before Christmas" means November and December. As in one month or two. Given they never had a hard release date, they haven't actually delayed anything.

ibdoomed · Post by **ibdoomed** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:37 am

baelthazar wrote:
ibdoomed wrote:
AWS260 wrote:From the developer's Twitter feed earlier today:
It will be out before Christmas unless someone on the team dies.
It was originally spring, then June, now late december... sounds like DNF...

And never trust twitter, bunch of twits.
For it to "sound like Duke Nukem Forever" your statement would have to say: "it was originally spring 2011, then June 2016, now late December 2030..."

I bet this is what people in 2001 felt like....

I really really hope it does come out this year. I'm jonesing bad for a decent game this fall and after DXHR and dead island, T2 is the only other good release this half of 2011? After 290 hours of DI, it's starting to get a little less fun. Course, there's always hope that notch will fix minecraft so it's playable again.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:02 am

Calling a Runic Games product 'Vaporware' or comparing to DNF is hilarious. Did you hear about how Brandon Sanderson delayed the end of WoT? He's totally just as bad as GRRM.

Back on topic, I'm planning to use Torchlight 2 as a D3 alternative, mainly because I won't likely have time for both, and T1 was awesome (I still play it).

Side note: If you haven't played T1, go get it. It's just as awesome today as it was in 2009.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:51 am

And when it's on sale, it's basically free.

I played the hell out of it. But I will wait for T2 to go on sale, and I will probably pick up Diablo 3 in a year or 2.

I'm extremely cheap these days, what with all the digital distribution sales going on, plus a backlog filled with quality games just waiting for me to fire them up. There is little incentive for me to buy anything at full price except for the most anticipated (by me) games, of which there are very, very few these days.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:01 am

GreenGoo wrote:I will probably pick up Diablo 3 in a year or 2.

In a year or two D3 will probably have the exact same price. In 5 years it might be discounted with an expansion. May as well buy it now.

I was going to skip Torchlight 2 completely, but then folks said they were choosing T2 over D3 in another thread so I went back to my Torchlight game, noted that I had a massive 4 hours played (

) and gave it another chance. It definitely clicked better with me this time around for some reason. Having recently played the D3 beta for a dozen hours or so, I prefer that to Torchlight by a decent margin, but I don't know what T2 is going to bring to up the ante. D3 is a massive improvement over D2 (ignoring the always online req), if T2 makes any kind of improvement over the original, this could be an excellent winter.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:19 am

coopasonic wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:I will probably pick up Diablo 3 in a year or 2.
In a year or two D3 will probably have the exact same price. In 5 years it might be discounted with an expansion. May as well buy it now.

It will be on version 1.xx or possibly 2.x by then. You're right about the price though, unfortunately.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:55 am

coopasonic wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:I will probably pick up Diablo 3 in a year or 2.
In a year or two D3 will probably have the exact same price. In 5 years it might be discounted with an expansion. May as well buy it now.

I was going to skip Torchlight 2 completely, but then folks said they were choosing T2 over D3 in another thread so I went back to my Torchlight game, noted that I had a massive 4 hours played ( ) and gave it another chance. It definitely clicked better with me this time around for some reason. Having recently played the D3 beta for a dozen hours or so, I prefer that to Torchlight by a decent margin, but I don't know what T2 is going to bring to up the ante. D3 is a massive improvement over D2 (ignoring the always online req), if T2 makes any kind of improvement over the original, this could be an excellent winter.

read a hand on preview, and they said that T2 was better in every way than T1. Therefore it indeed sounds prommissing.

D3 will be polished from the get go, maybe not perfect but certanly much better than most other games at release. Thats Blizzard for us. I will be getting at release since there wont be price drop for...... long long time.

ska5fe · Post by **ska5fe** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:46 pm

I'm getting D3 for free (with that 1 year of WoW subscription deal), but I'll definitely also be picking up Torchlight 2. D3 and TL2 certainly fall into the same overall genre, but there are enough details that differentiate the two that I'll have no problem putting a lot of hours into both.

The more I read and watch about TL2, the more excited I get for it. It's shaping up to be better than the original in almost every way.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:40 pm

Matrix wrote:D3 will be polished from the get go

Yes, it will be, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I justs meant that Diablo II went through some very nice updates over its lifetime and I suspect D3 to experience the same.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:39 pm

Delayed:

We feel pretty safe in saying that if you enjoyed Torchlight at all, this sequel is superior in every respect. Right now our job is to ensure that the quality level is consistent all the way to the end.

Besides, you're all playing Skyrim right now anyway, aren't you? Or Battlefield 3? Or Uncharted 3? Or Saints Row 3? Or Arkham City? Or Skyward Sword? Or Minecraft? Or Modern Warfare 3? Or Dark Souls? Or Assassin's Creed Revelations?

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:12 pm

Every time I see this thread bumped I click hoping for a release date.

I think I'll let Mr. LaRussa express my feelings about this latest development

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:22 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Delayed:

We feel pretty safe in saying that if you enjoyed Torchlight at all, this sequel is superior in every respect. Right now our job is to ensure that the quality level is consistent all the way to the end.

Besides, you're all playing Skyrim right now anyway, aren't you? Or Battlefield 3? Or Uncharted 3? Or Saints Row 3? Or Arkham City? Or Skyward Sword? Or Minecraft? Or Modern Warfare 3? Or Dark Souls? Or Assassin's Creed Revelations?

I feel it had much less to do with development time and much more with part in bold. Releasing now would almost guarantee its being buried under whole slew of other titles. They probably decided to release next year maybe not before Christmas, but certainly when everything is much slower and game will get more attention. Smart move. I like the game but i wouldn't have gotten it at release right now, while in February or March chances are more likely.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:40 pm

The longer they wait the more they risk going head to head with Diablo3.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:15 pm

Yep. Current speculation puts D3 at late January to late February for release.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:31 pm

I think the question for them is, is there any other big game comes out that will be vying for gamers budgets. Since i think gaming budget for gamers is flexible if its 1 or 2 games, i might get both Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 (especially if its in lower price range like original at release), but when there is 5-6 games of AAA quality within in a month or 2, i have to chose. Like at the moment i have BF3 on my list, but i am not getting anytime before it goes on sale, just because i already spent on skyrim , Heroes 6 and Dead Island and my time and attention is limited as well. For example i played very little of Heroes so far, still need to catch up on that. Same would go for Torchlight, if it came out now, i would have to wait until it goes on sale AND i had more time.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:42 pm

They cannot risk going head to head with diablo 3 UNLESS diablo 3 turns out to be a disappointment, which I think most would agree is not likely.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:31 pm

GreenGoo wrote:They cannot risk going head to head with diablo 3 UNLESS diablo 3 turns out to be a disappointment, which I think most would agree is not likely.

Then they are screwed

)

Since to me it looks as clearly business move and obiously the longer they sit on finished project, the more money they are losing as any improvement after certain point comes with diminishing return (difference between 90 and 95% in reviews lets say ), since it doesn't not generate sales. Considering how last minute they called of the release (10 days before release) they are clearly sitting on complete product.
Diablo 3 is likely to be awesome, since Blizzard can sit all day and test it since as far as testing concern they have unlimited time and money. That said, I don't think diablo 3 will hurt them, since diablo 3 will be priced ad 60$ and they are coming at 20$ mark. A very different price points, as long as they not releasing it on the same week as D3, they should be fine.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:38 pm

You guys realize they aren't going to go head to head with D3, right? Torchlight is a budget title, D3 is not. Folks may buy one, both, or neither. But for most people that decision won't be made based on whether T2 is 'better' than D3.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:44 pm

Of course they're not, but it's absolutely in their best interest to release the game before Diablo 3 comes out.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:54 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Of course they're not, but it's absolutely in their best interest to release the game before Diablo 3 comes out.

I think it's in their best interest to release the game whenever it's fully baked. If that's before D3, then great. If it's not, I don't think that will have a big impact on their sales.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:18 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:Of course they're not, but it's absolutely in their best interest to release the game before Diablo 3 comes out.
I think it's in their best interest to release the game whenever it's fully baked. If that's before D3, then great. If it's not, I don't think that will have a big impact on their sales.

Really?

I think if they release before D3 they've got a chance to get a lot more sales to folks who are waiting for the Blizzard title.

If they release after D3 many of those people are just going to keep playing D3 and ignore the quirky budget title.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:42 pm

I’m definitely in the “they need to release before” camp. If Torchlight2 comes out before Diablo3 I will buy it immediately. If it comes out after I’ll pick it up either on sale or when I’m sick of Diablo, whichever comes first.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:56 pm

Zaxxon wrote:You guys realize they aren't going to go head to head with D3, right? Torchlight is a budget title, D3 is not. Folks may buy one, both, or neither. But for most people that decision won't be made based on whether T2 is 'better' than D3.

Uh...they are the exact same type of game. The market for each game is nearly identical. While matrix might be willing to buy 2 games with near identical gameplay, but I suspect a large percentage of the market is not. I'm certainly not. And with Diablo 3 being the clearly more desirable game for most people, once they get their hands on it, why would they even bother with Torchlight 2?

Orgull · Post by **Orgull** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:58 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:You guys realize they aren't going to go head to head with D3, right? Torchlight is a budget title, D3 is not. Folks may buy one, both, or neither. But for most people that decision won't be made based on whether T2 is 'better' than D3.
Uh...they are the exact same type of game. The market for each game is nearly identical. While matrix might be willing to buy 2 games with near identical gameplay, but I suspect a large percentage of the market is not. I'm certainly not. And with Diablo 3 being the clearly more desirable game for most people, once they get their hands on it, why would they even bother with Torchlight 2?

I have to disagree slightly. I will be buying both Torchlight 2 AND Diablo 3, regardless of when they are released.

Each game has a style that is distinctive. Its hard to quantify but sometimes I like the lighthearted endless nature of Torchlight and sometimes I like the gothic, horrifying smashfest that is Diablo. Each fill a slightly different need, depending on my mood.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:03 am

GreenGoo wrote:Uh...they are the exact same type of game. The market for each game is nearly identical. And with Diablo 3 being the clearly more desirable game for most people, once they get their hands on it, why would they even bother with Torchlight 2?

Orgull wrote:I have to disagree slightly. I will be buying both Torchlight 2 AND Diablo 3, regardless of when they are released.

Each game has a style that is distinctive. Its hard to quantify but sometimes I like the lighthearted endless nature of Torchlight and sometimes I like the gothic, horrifying smashfest that is Diablo. Each fill a slightly different need, depending on my mood.

What Orgull said. D3 and T2 may be 'the exact same type of game' (though I'd argue that while extremely similar, they're not 'the same' in any manner that's meaningful), but they each will have their own personality. Further, T2's budget nature puts it in a fundamentally different market segment--people who will drop $20 but not $60 for a game. If you really think the former isn't a huge market, see exhibits A through ZZZZZ in past Steam sales. Add to this the market of people who love quality action-RPGs enough to buy more than one (see exibits A through 1,000,000+ of folks that bought T1 even though the majority of them surely had played/owned D2) and the people who simply prefer Torchlight's less restrictive nature (see exhibits A through... well, ok maybe that's just me) and the extremely long tail of sales that Runic is likely to see if T2 follows T1's sales pattern, and I assure you that they're not worried.

And then to top it off, there's the fact that I alluded to earlier--they're much better off releasing a game that's fully-baked and will garner stellar reviews like T1 did than they are rushing it to beat D3 by a few weeks at the risk of their long tail.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:34 am

The problem is that most of the dwellers here on OO are atypical of the gaming market in general, and that applies to the market of Diablo 3 as much as any other game. I was not aware Torchlight sold over a million units (good for them!) but even so, I expect a very poor opening weekend (as it were) and continued poor sales if diablo 3 is released in the same timeframe.

I'll just agree to disagree.

As it turns out, I probably won't buy Diablo 3 at all. I expected to buy Starcraft 2 by now and I haven't, and I'm not feeling any great urge to, and as such expect the same thing to happen with Diablo 3.. Since I got such a great deal on the original Torchlight, I will probably wait for a similar deal for 2. But I am definitely more interested in Torchlight 2 than Diablo 3 although I am also fairly sure that is not the norm for most fans of action rpg's.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:47 am

No matter when T2 releases, it will appeal to the budget crowd. The market for D3 is limited to those who can and are willing to pay premium for a premium game.

Also T2 will appeal to those alienated by Blizzard's choices regarding "always online" and some of the stuff with auctions and what-not. That made many less enchanted with D3.

IMHO they are different games. T2 feels casual, like Fate, and actually plays more like Diablo 1-2 than D3 appears (just a perception from reading the previews of the changes). Torchlight felt very "classic" to me. It had a story, but it didn't get in the way of monster bashing. Diablo's story will be in your face with cutscenes and such. Not a bad thing, but a different feel.

I'll get both. My current issue is if I should sign up for an annual sub of WoW to get that AND D3.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:19 pm

*shrug*

I'm a pretty avid gamer, and I like to think I can appreciate subtle differences in similar games (which is why I like Torchlight in the first place), but games like Diablo 1, 2 and 3, Torchlight, Titan Quest and other action RPG's in this vein are very, very similar.

Not to mention the time and effort required to progress in a game of this type hinders (makes it less likely) that someone would play both at the same time, whereas I don't feel this is the case for FPS, or even RTS.

Of course plenty of people (so I've come to learn) don't bother to play Nightmare or Hell difficulties in Diablo, so perhaps I'm over estimating how the general market plays these games.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:25 pm

GreenGoo wrote:Of course plenty of people (so I've come to learn) don't bother to play Nightmare or Hell difficulties in Diablo, so perhaps I'm over estimating how the general market plays these games.

Oh, you're overestimating by an insane amount. Only one in five people bother to complete the game. Once. On Easy or Normal. 3% beat the game with all classes. 0.4% beat the game on Very Hard Hardcore.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:45 pm

baelthazar wrote: Also T2 will appeal to those alienated by Blizzard's choices regarding "always online" and some of the stuff with auctions and what-not. That made many less enchanted with D3.

This. As one of those less enchanted folk, I will be buying T2 and not buying D3. T2 LAN support FTW.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:07 pm

This is a silly argument but I guess we don't have any other Diablo3 or Torchlight 2 news to discuss.

I think there are two groups of gamers. There are the folks who will buy both D3 and T2 no matter when they're released. These folks don't really impact this discussion.

The group that concerns me is the more casual gamer that wants their ARPG itch scratched. If Torchlight2 comes out first they might buy it for $20 to tide them over. If Diablo3 comes out first they'll buy that and once they do I highly doubt they'll buy T2.

I really like Travis Baldree and I greatly enjoy his games. I fear that if T2 isn't successful we won't see any more games from him - and I think his best chance of success is to beat D3 to market.

Plus, I really want an ARPG to play right now.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:09 pm

Exodor wrote:I really like Travis Baldree and I greatly enjoy his games. I fear that if T2 isn't successful we won't see any more games from him.

Um.