Icewind Dale 1

[NickAragua]

I've moved on to "Dorn's Deep", the old dwarf fortress.

My bard has leveled up to the point where he gets a very important song. What song is that, you ask? Well, it's one that allows for 2 hp/round of regeneration. What this means is that my cleric can switch to a buff and "massive heal" role, rather than have to carry a full load of "cure light wounds" and whatever for patching up small nicks and bruises. Instead, he'll be casting bless, raising the dead (and undead) and calling down fire and brimstone from the heavens.

My thief turned mage is making good progress towards passing his thief level with his mage level, and I expect him to do so at roughly the time that I complete the game. Still, he's already proven incredibly useful with his magic missiles and fireballs.

By the way, this dual classing mechanism seems even more retarded to me now than it did before, and so do the arbitrary weapon restrictions for character classes. Why would a thief suddenly forget all his lockpicking skills when studying magecraft? If a guy knew how to use a sword before becoming a cleric, why would he suddenly forget that? Good god, the AD&D rule set is awful now that I have better things with which to compare it.

[Scuzz]

I always get confused by this but you can multi-class characters as well. I think that works better and allows for more class freedom.

I think. Of course I could be wrong.

[silverjon]

I think if you're used to AD&D rules and/or the Infinity Engine's take on them, you work around the limitations (or mod the game to your liking). If you're used to more flexibility, then it does likely seem on the illogical side.

I think the rationale on the dual-classing is basically for game-balancing reasons, to prevent players from abusing the crap out of it. There has to be a disadvantage.

[NickAragua]

I think if you're used to AD&D rules and/or the Infinity Engine's take on them, you work around the limitations (or mod the game to your liking). If you're used to more flexibility, then it does likely seem on the illogical side.

I think the rationale on the dual-classing is basically for game-balancing reasons, to prevent players from abusing the crap out of it. There has to be a disadvantage.

True. Actually, even despite the disadvantage, my current party consists of three guys who are dual-classed. The only thing I really needed to do was stagger the dual-classing so I don't wind up with three effectively level 1 guys halfway through the game. Meanwhile, having just one ineffectual guy is fine in most fights (and by the time you get to the tough endgame boss fights, your guys should be set up with their classes).

My complaints don't really detract from my enjoyment of the game - it's more of a comparative analysis against D&D 3rd edition and Pathfinder rules (on which, by the way, I'd love to see a game based). Having not used AD&D in almost a decade, it's like going back to a car with an automatic transmission after driving a stick shift for a while. You keep trying to press the clutch, but it's not there - instead, you have some arbitrary set of rules for gear shifts that are almost entirely out of your control (and the computer really sucks at it, too).

The main problem with multi-classing (as opposed to dual-classing) is that the character will always be way behind in levels due to the XP split. A dual-classing human will catch up to the rest of the party and be only a level or so behind, but a double-class elf will have something like half the XP, because it's split among both classes. That hurts when you really need (for example) a serious mage that can cast "meteor swarm" (a level 9 spell), but all you have is that pansy elf who's barely started on fifth level spells and spends half his time picking locks. Not to say that multi-classing is bad, just that multi-classed characters fill a supporting role, rather than a superstar role. Although, my archer (elf fighter/thief) has 33% of the party's kills and decimates mages and clerics quite nicely. And she disarms traps just fine, too.

[NickAragua]

So, I'm wandering around Dorn's Deep, beating the crap out of the undead, dark elves, mushroom men and two-headed giants, and I come across this monument to Dwarven, uh, ingenuity:

Spoiler:

[Scuzz]

So, I'm wandering around Dorn's Deep, beating the crap out of the undead, dark elves, mushroom men and two-headed giants, and I come across this monument to Dwarven, uh, ingenuity:

Spoiler:

RPG's are full of repressed sexual innuendo....that's why I play them.

[NickAragua]

Finally finished the main game.

A word of warning for those who would fight the final boss: Your mages are almost completely useless, except for buff spells. The guy's magic resistance is so high that you're just not going to hurt him. Also, don't bother trying to use +3 or lower weapons on him, as he's immune to those as well. Complete BS ending for a game that was all about overcoming tactical challenges in a variety of ways.

[Scuzz]

Finally finished the main game.

A word of warning for those who would fight the final boss: Your mages are almost completely useless, except for buff spells. The guy's magic resistance is so high that you're just not going to hurt him. Also, don't bother trying to use +3 or lower weapons on him, as he's immune to those as well. Complete BS ending for a game that was all about overcoming tactical challenges in a variety of ways.

By the end of the game you should have Uber powerful weapon though.

And I remember using my mages for more than that. They can summon meat to keep the bad guy busy among other things. It has been awhile since I played but I do know there were things a mage could do.

Spoiler:

This is the fight in the temple back at the original town, right.

[NickAragua]

Spoiler:

Yep, that's the final boss.

Yeah, I wound up having my mages blow all their summoning spells. A lot of good orcs/beetles/skeletons lost their lives that day.

Also, a word of warning to those using the "Unfinished Business" mod.

Spoiler:

If you go to fight a guy named "Marketh", try to avoid killing his floozies on the first floor of his mansion, and (preferably) use a bard with high int (18+) to talk to his dark elf girlfriend, or at least a guy with a really high int to talk to him. If he turns hostile, he'll start teleporting all over Lower Dorn's Deep, and there's no way to get him to stop (that I found). I eventually got pissed off and went to cheat and force him to join the party (couldn't ctrl-y him!), take his stupid token, then kick him out and let the jackass keep teleporting.

[Isgrimnur]

Enhanced Edition up on Steam. $19.99 launch price

[Octavious]

Ohhh... I'll wait for feedback, but that's going to be hard to resist.

[Isgrimnur]

It'll be on sale some time in the next year, I'm sure.

[Blackhawk]

I never did finish IWD. I played a lot of it, but never completed it.

Owners of the previous Enhanced titles: Now that they've had time to simmer a bit, how have things worked out compared to the vanilla versions? Specifically, I'm curious about the zoom functionality (high res is good, but tiny characters isn't) and the compatibility of basic mods like the Ease of Use packs.

[YellowKing]

Yeah, I'll definitely pick that up if it goes on sale (I think I'd pay $15, but $20 is just a tad high).

Icewind Dale was my favorite Black Isle RPG, even topping Baldur's Gate 1 & 2. That's not due to any fault with BG, but just a matter of my circumstances at the time. While I never had the time or inclination to get deep into either of the BG games, I did jump into Icewind Dale whole-heartedly.

[Edit] After reading through the whole feature list, I may suck it up and pay $20. Wow that looks good.

[Daehawk]

I had owned BG and tried it twice and just never clicked with it. But I'd read about IWD and one day at the mall I walk in Software Etc and there it is..just arrived. I bought it then and there. Turned out to be a great thing too. I loved it and finished it. I loved it so much it actually got me interested in the books by RA Salvatore and I ended up reading The Icewind Dale Trilogy and all his other books too. I then went back to BG and 3rd times the charm I reckon because I loved and finished it too. I then of course got all the rest...Torment, BG2, IWD2, and all addons. Fun days. Wish I could go back a lot of time.

[SlapBone]

I wish they would stop screwing around and redo PST.

[Baroquen]

I was another one that never got through BG, but thoroughly enjoyed IWD. Finished it (and a sequel too, right?). Not sure why it clicked, but it did. Still have fond memories of it.

Haven't tried any of the enhanced editions so can't comment on the features. Will keep an eye on reviews for this though.

[$iljanus]

This is one of the few games that I've played through twice. If there's a sale I might have to grab this and play it again.

[Suitably Ironic Moniker]

I enjoyed the BG Enhanced Editions very much. I didn't use any of the new characters in my party, but just the revamped UI and increased resolution and visual clarity were more than enough to make them a good buy for me.

As for IWD, it looks like they added even more the mix. I'll pick it up at some point, hopefully during a sale.

[Scuzz]

What are the advantages of the "enhanced" versions of BG and IWD. I love both these series and have probably played them more than any game. Do they just "look" better on modern systems and monitors?

I know at some point in the future I will play them again.

Does the IWD version come with the additional content?

[Isgrimnur]

* Swords and Sorcery: Discover dozens of new spells and items, including new magic armor and weapons.
* Blackguards and Wizard Slayers: Select from more than 30 new kits and classes to create the perfect adventuring party.
* A New Look: Experience the Enhanced Edition's all new interface, including the new Quickloot bar.
* Bring A Friend: Join your fellow adventurers in cooperative, cross-platform multiplayer games.
* See The Unseen: Explore quest content cut from the original game, now finished and restored.
* More to Experience: Enjoy the countless bug fixes and improvements that await you in Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition!

Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition includes both Heart of Winter and Trials of the Luremaster expansions.

[Scuzz]

Thanks, it was the expansions I wondered about.

If you haven't played HoW it is well worth the money to upgrade then.

[Mandeville]

I loved IWD More than BG because I was really into creating my whole party. It felt like the gold box games to me. I bought and am playing through BG Enhanced right now and I think I am farther along then I ever was the first time. So the may be a buy for me.

[Blackhawk]

*Gasp*

They added the Swashbuckler kit to the enhanced edition.

[El Guapo]

I picked it up, though I spent my first evening entirely on party-making, so I haven't actually gotten into the game yet. Psyched to see Wild Mages in the game, as I was always amused by that kit back in my RPG days but never actually got to play one.

Wound up with a party of fighter-paladin-druid-thief-(wild)-mage. We'll see how that goes. Maybe dual-class the thief into a mage, as I recall Imoen being pretty useful like that in BG2.

[Blackhawk]

I've got:

~Human Swashbuckler - A rogue who loses backstab in exchange for bonuses to AC, hit, damage, and the ability to specialize in weapons and two-weapon fighting. My main character in BG2 was a swashbuckler. They've got most of the advantages of a fighter-thief, but without of the drawbacks of multi/dual classing. They don't have the big hit dice or clanky armor, but they can get the lowest AC in the game with their massive Dex and AC bonuses. In BGII, my swashbuckler had better defenses than the paladins in full magic plate and shield.

~Human Wizard Slayer - Fighter with magic resistance and anti-mage abilities, but can't use some types of magic items. Infinity Engine games tend to have nasty, nasty mages. I like having something in place to counter that.

~Human Barbarian

~Elven Mage

~Human Archer - Ranger kit that gains major bonuses to missile weapons at the cost of melee skill and Charm Animal. Favored enemy - Trolls. With the option for grand mastery (5 proficiency) in missile weapons and +1 to hit and damage every three levels (at level 15, for instance, the two together will be +8 to hit, +10 to damage, +1 attack), I expect her to be a big damage dealer.

~Dwarven Priest of Lathander - Cleric kit that is strong vs. undead.

I'm happy with the party so far. There are a couple of things I'd do differently at this point if I had the chance, but they're just minor tweaks and not worth restarting for. I've got the basics covered - thief skills, fighters, a mage, a cleric. I've got three strong front-liners (two of them very hard to kill, two that are very high damage), two rear rank damage dealers, and the cleric who can switch back and forth as needed. With the kits, I was able to get it and still keep the characters interesting to play (and didn't bother with min-maxing.)

[Blackhawk]

Also, I grabbed this: Link It is a .exe file, but it comes from a reliable site, I scanned the crap of it it, and used it without issue. It is just an unpacker.

It is a portrait pack with several hundred (mostly) non-cheesy portraits. It seems that they upped the quality of the portrait images, and most of the old Infinity Engine portrait sites are now useless. This is at Enhanced Edition quality, and works fine.

It was written for Baldur's Gate EE, so you'll have to change the installation directory (or do what I did and put it in a temp directory, the pick-and-choose which portraits you want.) Whatever the case, the portraits need to end up in C:\Users\[Username]\Documents\Icewind Dale - Enhanced Edition\portraits on Win7 (or whatever your My Documents\Icewind Dale directory may be.)

[NickAragua]

I picked it up, though I spent my first evening entirely on party-making, so I haven't actually gotten into the game yet. Psyched to see Wild Mages in the game, as I was always amused by that kit back in my RPG days but never actually got to play one.

Wound up with a party of fighter-paladin-druid-thief-(wild)-mage. We'll see how that goes. Maybe dual-class the thief into a mage, as I recall Imoen being pretty useful like that in BG2.

A little light on healing, but you can fix that by dual-classing the fighter to a cleric once you get to level 9 (to maximize hit points and thaco). It's like a paladin without those pesky moral restrictions and with better spell casting ability (once you get past that awful hump where you've got a level 1 character trying to catch up with your level 10 guys). Also, "turn undead" is super awesome once you get to higher levels (it's always nice to see a large crowd of zombies and such simply evaporate instead of having to fight them).

With the thief, I'd recommend going to mage once you max out the open locks / disarm traps type skill (I forget exactly what they're called). Don't bother with the sneak stuff - since you're dualing to a mage you can just use 'invisibility' to scout around. Pick pockets is similarly useless, since all the good vendors have their stuff locked up tight and there aren't that many friendly NPCs to pickpocket.

Also, early on in the game, archery is king, so grab some bows and arrows from all those dead goblins.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Arise thread!

I just got the ID: EE for my iPad. I've only played around in the first area and done the first quest, but I'm already questioning my decision to make a Sorcerer rather than a Mage. Because he's the Dragonwhatever Sorcerer, he only has two spells he can cast at level 1 (and those he can only case twice). Seems pretty bad so far. Should I boot him and make a mage or do Sorcerers start coming into their own later?

edit: The game works surprisingly well on the iPad. My only issue so far is that entering and exit a building can take a few clicks sometimes.

[Redfive]

Couldn't pass on IWD:EE at under $7 for the Steam sale.

This game qualifies as 'the best time I've ever had playing an Infinity Engine game that I stop for no known reason.'

I've tried it twice in the past (I think I traded it for it...15-20 years ago at OO). The music / setting of Kuldahar and the events in the Vale of Shadows are some of the coolest sequences I've had in a CRPG. I just don't know why I didn't continue.

I'm thinking about the game while at work which is exceedingly rare these days so I'm taking it as a good sign.

My party this go 'round:

Human vanilla fighter
Human paladin (honestly I think I chose human by mistake..my portrait is clearly dwarven and his name is Durgan...*shrug*)
Dwarven vanilla cleric
Half-elf Ranger
Human mage (she started her career as a fighter and I just dual classed her to mage once she reached 3/2 on attacks as a fighter)
Elven fighter / thief (my only multi-class. Thieves level quickly so I'm not fearing him falling behind)

I had some missteps while rolling my characters and had to restart the game like 3 times. The benefit of this is the characters that weren't flawed got to share in some initial xp multiple times.

Once I made it to Kuldahar and started acquiring gear I went to dual class the warrior ==> mage and then realized that--again--I didn't plan properly and her pre-requisites weren't allowing her to switch..soooo reroll the mage.

This time I had to pull some stupid human tricks with the single / multiplayer save games. This is the only way you can allow a new character to join an ongoing party.

The good news is she's already reached level 3 again and now is properly dual classed.

Looking forward to more. I hope I can make it through this time.

If I'm lucky maybe I'll tackle the Grandaddy of all false start games BG2 <==ashamed to admit this.

[El Guapo]

Human paladin (honestly I think I chose human by mistake..my portrait is clearly dwarven and his name is Durgan...*shrug*)

IIRC in 2nd edition D&D paladins had to be human under the rules. Because racism, I guess.