X-Com: Enemy Unknown

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:32 pm

I picked it up for the Summer Sale (I think), and finally got around to starting it a week or so ago. I played Enemy Unknown a long while back, but Enemy Within is a new ball of wax. I actually had to restart when I made the mistake over overdeveloping my ground forces without giving my air units enough oomph. It's all fun and games until someone loses a satellite. Or three.

I'm having fun now, though. One thing I picked up is that you really do want to change your standard loadout if you're doing an Exalt mission.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:02 pm

Did my first Exalt mission last night. Pretty easy. I didn't change my loadout much (ditched the stun gun). But I did change up my class makeup.

Would have loved to take more Assault. Too bad I don't have any. GRRRRRRRRR.

Got a couple more trained up. Oh look, another Heavy! I think that's seven now. And two Assault. F'in ridiculous. I have 6-7 Heavy, 5-6 Support, 4-5 Sniper, and 2 Assault. It's definitely making some of the missions a lot harder.

Sounds like I need to take a better look at my air stuff. I saw tech to protect your satellites, but I haven't picked anything up. I'm having enough trouble getting my ground units improved.

I'm starting to wish I'd picked the easy difficulty.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:24 pm

You should stun at least one exalt guy. It's pretty cool.

Anyway, Exalt are hard to deal with if you don't keep up with your offensive ground tech. If you're a step ahead of them (like I was my last playthrough), then they're child's play.

Some anti-exalt tips (spoilered if you want to figure them out yourself, no plot spoilers):

Spoiler:

There's also a mod that I highly recommend that adjusts the odds of a particular class spawning from a rookie based on how many of that class you have.

Also, look up the "corpse persistence" mod so that dead bodies stick around instead of just disappearing (kind of a pet peeve of mine in that game).

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:35 pm

I didn't know about the turn thingie. That's interesting.

And I didn't choose an Assault because I only have 2. See above.

I knew of the one mod, but I decided to just play it without mods first. I figured that it would be at least a little balanced. I might have to do that if I do another playthrough.

I didn't have too many issues with the Exalt guys. I haven't done much with my tech, but they weren't ahead. The one thing I didn't expect (and, yes, it resulted in a reload) was that they would use the same weapons. I know, I should have. But I'm still new to the whole Exalt thing. But, yeah, having a rocket launcher hit 3 of your team sucks.

I did laugh when one of them healed himself. I was able to kill the snipers before they caused mischief.

Mostly I just made sure that everyone ended the turn with an overwatch. That plus going first generally allowed me to sort out the reinforcements. I suspect that they will quickly get harder though.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:58 pm

They'll generally keep up with you, at least from my experience, but only through laser weaponry. Once you hit plasma, you'll outgun them. Up until then, though, I equipped most of my own troops with Exalt gear. The stats are the same, but it looks better.

If you kill them with explosives, their weapons won't be dropped, but it isn't a huge deal, as they're not all that valuable (save them until you get requests from countries for it.)

The big thing that makes them so nasty is the waves of reinforcements, often dropped behind you (and their proclivity for explosives.)

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:03 pm

Either I've been really slow with my science, or things are moving too fast. I only just finished my second month. I have one laser tech. I did just jump to light plasma. I've stunned a few aliens and have some weapons stored up. Which will be cheaper than making them. I need to get the next plasma so I can use the bigger plasma rifles I have stored up.

Armor is the big thing that is hurting me. I really need to get better armor. Money has been slowing everything down. Or lack thereof.

Just got a Foundry. And working on a Genetics Lab. Also just fired off the bigger satellite array thingie. 21 days. Gonna be rough.

Two countries already quit.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:59 pm

I'm starting to wish I picked up enemy within when it was 8 bucks 2 weeks ago.

Anyone know if long war works with vanilla Enemy Unknown?

The answer is no, not any longer.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:01 am

I just finished Enemy Within a few minutes ago. Sort of. I had a bug on the final room that blocked one of my soldiers from entering, although that ended up not being an issue (see below), and then the final cutscene crashed the game - repeatedly. I'm still calling it a win.

Compared to my experience with the original EU release, I thought it added a lot. It adds character options and additional storylines that are fun. Just one warning: Don't pursue all of the options. I did, and as often happens when I play a game too thoroughly, I made it too easy. The final boss I killed, not in two rounds, but in two shots. Four of my soldiers didn't even get to act in the final battle.

It is still a great game.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:54 am

I've started back into this game. I'll write something up in the near future. I'm on my 3rd game (so 2 restarts) in only 3 days, but it's not quite as bad as it seems.

I will say that the follow up mission to the slingshot mission is my nemesis. I've only attempted it two times, both with total wipes. The first I panicked near the end as time was running out and the multiple mutons dropping in brutalized me. The second time I took all rookies and ran a high risk strategy that had zero pay off. All the gambles went the wrong way. Hilariously my last 3 guys in heavy cover died when they were repeatedly flanked (which was bullshit imo) and then a muton dropped literally in the middle of them.

edit: And holy shit another team wipe. I'm not this bad at the game, I promise. I'm playing Classic Ironman, but I'm just terrible lately. Not sure what's going on. The thin men's light plasma rifle is killing me with the +10 aim.

Gonna take a break. Not worth throwing away more soldiers.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:40 am

Ok, so I've got 3 guys beside 3 different transponders. There are 3 or 4 turns left. A muton drops in. I shotgun him in the face on the same turn from overwatch. He roars, and my guy on the farthest transponder, out of sight and out of range of the Muton, panics. That's ok, I just need to survive another turn and it's over (I assume, seems like they are dropping overwhelming force on me at the end). Except he dies despite cover. I've got no one else in range and everything goes to shit.

So what I'm getting at is I'm 1 turn (with at least 2, possible 3 turns left of the time limit) away from finishing the second slingshot mission for the first time, and my stupid fucking dude panics because, well, noise.

Fuck you, you stupid bastard. I'm glad you're dead. he didn't even have the decency to fall on the damn thing and start it up. Gah. Do most people playing Ironman skip this mission? It's pretty rough.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:19 am

GreenGoo wrote:Fuck you, you stupid bastard. I'm glad you're dead. he didn't even have the decency to fall on the damn thing and start it up. Gah. Do most people playing Ironman skip this mission? It's pretty rough.

My (only) Classic Ironman playthrough has been brutal. I've got a wall plastered with dead soldiers, and I fully understand the mechanics of the game and play as cautiously as possible. Bear in mind that +10 Aim for the Light Plasma Rifle is actually +20 Aim in Classic since hostiles get a natural +10 Aim due to the difficulty setting.

FAQ wrote:All ranged Aliens except Sectoids receive +10 Aim and +10 Critical Chance bonuses; Sectoids only receive +10 Critical Chance bonus. Several aliens also receive additional HP; notably the health bonuses on Outsiders (+2 HP) and Thin Men (+1 HP) paired with their high accuracy can make the first few months especially more difficult. Melee aliens receive small damage bonuses. Sectoid Commanders and Ethereals receive +25 Will bonuses.

So those Thin Men are consistently a pain in the ass. When everyone else moves on to Plasma Rifles, they keep using the light variation and keep being the most accurate bastards you encounter. It's all too common for one of them to critically hit a soldier in heavy cover, doing 9 damage to someone with 6-8 health.

I play with the Second Wave setting of "Not Created Equally" which randomizes starting stats - Movement, Will, Aim - are random within parameters. This generates some awesome soldiers that start with 70-80 Aim and some abysmal soldiers that start with 55-60 Aim. I rename the abysmal ones so I know easily who they are and I use them as lightning rods in combat. When things look a little dicey, Private Fodder steps up and hides in low cover. He draws a lot of fire, maybe dies, maybe not. I don't care if he bites it, though. My best crap soldier has somehow survived to Lieutenant.

I also decided early on that Weapon Fragments weren't important enough to risk lives and am very liberal with my Heavy rockets. They all get Shredder rockets, Danger Zone, and Rocketeer, which gives them 3 rockets in total with a massive blast radius. Thin Men are prime targets and I go out of my way to blow them the hell up as soon as I can and most never survive the turn I meet them.

Taking along two good snipers with Squad Sight is also critical, IMO. When everyone else has fired and failed to kill - my two Double Tapping Colonels step up with their 110-120 Aim (70-80 Aim as a Rookie, thanks to Not Created Equally) and they dominate. I don't care if my other soldiers are leveling up as fast as they can - they're surviving and will get better over time.

As for special missions, I've done them all and can report...

1. Collecting Zhang was easy, well, within reason. I've been through it enough to know what's going to spawn and where and was very prepared.
2. The Whaler mission was a complete mess. It was triggered in the middle of Month 2 and I pushed as hard as I could with basic firearms, but the Chrysalids pushed me back (tactical repositioning). As soon as my first soldier died and got back up, everyone was running for evac - just a few steps behind them.
3. Arming the train was a complete bust - lost two soldiers and timed out 2 turns before I could have even finished it. Again, I knew what to expect and where, but just couldn't get past the Thin Men and Mutons fast enough while remaining safe.
4. The first "Exalt" mission (where you find bodies with conventional weapons fire wounds) was a complete flop. Again, f***ing Thin Men. I knew what to expect and brought 3 Heavies (for rockets) and 1 Sniper. I was fine until I grabbed the hostage and started coming back. It all unraveled and I scraped out of that mission with just the Sniper alive after the hostage was killed by the same freak critical-behind-heavy-cover streak that had killed all of my heavies.

So far the DLC/Story missions have been a complete bust - and it's mostly because of those damned Thin Men.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:39 pm

I'll post more later, but I'm into my 3rd month in a classic/Ironman (not interested in Impossible, that's too much headache for me) game and still have everyone in the council. I have all of Africa and started in Europe, so I have cheap workshops and +30% cash, although cash is still a problem since there is so much to spend it on right now.

I think the number of missions that I finished without losing a guy can be counted on one hand. I'm constantly losing my pointman rookies. I have like 9 guys in the infirmary. My squads are still just 4 dudes, as I don't have Enemy Within or Long War. Losing a guy makes things that much harder.

Still, the only missions I've failed so far have been the train/transponders mission, which I've been given twice now. One I took vets in, and everyone lived and all transponders were turned on, only to find out the train needs to be started. I lol'd. It took some risks and some luck just to get the transponders turned on. I ran out of time before I could start the train.

The second time I took 2 veteran snipers and 2 rookies. The rookies died before the 2nd transponder was turned on. I just hang back and let the time run out. Wasn't throwing away veteran snipers on a fool's errand.

I'm a little behind in squad development/officer academy, and I haven't even captured a live alien yet (intentionally focusing on other things). I love capturing aliens, so I'll get going on that soon.

My tactics are not as solid as they could be, but I'm getting tired of getting shot to death out of high cover (I realize this is to be expected, now). I even had a heavy in high cover suppressing a thin man get killed by the damn thin man. That was bullshit.

Anyway, having great fun, and my tactical play is improving a lot. It feels sort of gamey, as a lot of what I'm learning is learning to exploit certain ai behaviours, but that's the nature of the beast, since cover stops mattering as aim gets better. A toe to toe shootout, even with flanking, suppression and covering fire is a losing proposition.

Fun.

edit: I'm running second wave settings of: Not created equal and hidden potential, that's it. I only just realized I have the DLC that allows customization (this was extra money once upon a time, not sure how I got it) so I'll start colourizing based on specific classes and/or roles. Should make the game slightly more enjoyable, believe it or not. While I have had to hire a lot of rookies, I can't afford to dismiss any of them, so crappy stats just means he's point man.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:26 pm

GreenGoo wrote:crappy stats just means he's point man.

I look forward to discovering my "crappy" survivor that just won't die is actually a psychic. The only thing he has going for him is high Will.

Ironman can be a real kick in the jimmies - but I've found patience prevails. Last night I finished a Terror mission where two Cyberdisks appeared (first time seeing them) and left with no deaths and only one injury. It was all about the two Heavies with Shredder/Rockets softening them up and the rest of the squad being in good cover and two double-tapping Snipers disabling weapons. I was very worried that one would lob a grenade, but it never happened.

I'm currently sitting with 5 countries out of the council, but satellites everywhere else. I bring in just over $1000 per month and spend it all immediately. Any other projects come out of selling excess in the Gray Market.

I think I'm 12 days from getting 3 Firestorm fighters...

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:22 pm

Here's a quick run down since I started playing last week. Numbers might not be exact.

1) Pretty far. Made it to second month without major mishaps, then lost a heavy I had grown to like. I didn't rage quit, but I did start over because I do that a lot in almost all games I play. I have 12 actively played borderlands 2 characters, for example.

2) Team wipe in first month. Rage quit.

3) end of first month. lost 2 veterans in transponder mission. Resignedly quit.

4) see 3)

5 - 100 billion) restart for various reasons that change depending on the attempt

100 billion + 1) things are going swimmingly in the 3rd month, although I'm falling behind on firepower (only have laser rifles) and Mutons are becoming a regular thing. At one point I only had 2 squaddies that were healthy (with about 9 veterans in the infirmary). That was a bit scary. Literally only 2 soldiers were available for missions. I hired 10ish rookies at that point.

And I've started a second game, trying to put priorities in a different place (started in Asia). I'm not sure I can ignore keeping council members and satellite development in favour of soldier development and bio-research. It's too ground into me at this point. We'll see.

I have a real pathological need to keep all council members, where losing even one (even one on the continent I start on so I keep that bonus) makes it very difficult for me to continue.

I may play a game where I try to win while losing all the council members, just to get rid of this monkey on my back. It actually makes very little difference losing individual countries, although it does mean you lose the continent bonus, but most of those are only nice to haves, not necessary anyway.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:44 pm

GreenGoo wrote:I have a real pathological need to keep all council members, where losing even one (even one on the continent I start on so I keep that bonus) makes it very difficult for me to continue.

I have similar issues and can sympathize. It's hard for me to accept nations resigning and good soldiers dying - but I'm determined to make it through. I've gotten to a point where it doesn't matter if I win with all nations or 9 of them left... as long as I win. I've also hit a sweet spot with lasers and semi-skilled soldiers with a few good leaders to float weak spots on teams. I've started mass-recruiting and sifting out duds instead of keeping them and am considering eliminating my Fodder-class troops and just use good Rookies as lightning rods instead.

Classic is a bitch to keep all nations, though. That shouldn't even be a goal. It's highly common to lose 1-2 at the end of Month 1, and 2-3 at the end of Month 2. After Month 3, you should be at a place where you can prevent future defections. I say common because it's entirely up to random chance if you get too many incompatible missions that don't lower panic enough to keep countries in the fold. Lack of funding doesn't kill the game, research goes on unabated - it's just a hindrance to buying a lot of cool toys all at once. You can only lose 7 before the game ends. At the 8th, they all throw in the towel, I think. In the satellite screen, you can see 8 segments of a "health bar" that goes red as nations leave.

Once I finish up my Classic Ironman playthrough, I should (hopefully) be at 100% Steam Achievements for the game - and am willing to give Long War a shot. It looks like good fun.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:00 pm

Near the satellite launch end-game, I tend to wind up leaving a continent mostly uncovered. This is best done with the starting continent, because you get the continent bonus even if you don't have all the countries. This way, instead of being stuck with just terror missions, council adventures and UFOs, I still get the abduction missions, which feature pretty solid rewards - I value the opportunity to boost engineer/scientist stock, make extra cash or recruit high-ranked replacement troopers.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:15 pm

NickAragua wrote:Near the satellite launch end-game, I tend to wind up leaving a continent mostly uncovered. This is best done with the starting continent, because you get the continent bonus even if you don't have all the countries. This way, instead of being stuck with just terror missions, council adventures and UFOs, I still get the abduction missions, which feature pretty solid rewards - I value the opportunity to boost engineer/scientist stock, make extra cash or recruit high-ranked replacement troopers.

Yes that's my plan as well.

And just so we're clear, I'm playing Enemy Unknown, I don't have Enemy Within yet. What I've seen of Enemy Within sure looks good though. I'll definitely be picking it up next time it's on sale.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:21 pm

NickAragua wrote:Near the satellite launch end-game, I tend to wind up leaving a continent mostly uncovered. This is best done with the starting continent, because you get the continent bonus even if you don't have all the countries. This way, instead of being stuck with just terror missions, council adventures and UFOs, I still get the abduction missions, which feature pretty solid rewards - I value the opportunity to boost engineer/scientist stock, make extra cash or recruit high-ranked replacement troopers.

I would think a Congressional or U.N. (or whatever) sub-committee would have some hard questions for X-Com as to why an entire continent is intentionally not protected.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:36 pm

El Guapo wrote:
NickAragua wrote:Near the satellite launch end-game, I tend to wind up leaving a continent mostly uncovered. This is best done with the starting continent, because you get the continent bonus even if you don't have all the countries. This way, instead of being stuck with just terror missions, council adventures and UFOs, I still get the abduction missions, which feature pretty solid rewards - I value the opportunity to boost engineer/scientist stock, make extra cash or recruit high-ranked replacement troopers.
I would think a Congressional or U.N. (or whatever) sub-committee would have some hard questions for X-Com as to why an entire continent is intentionally not protected.

Hey, we reliably stop 33% of all abductions. Maybe if those cheapskates sprung for more than one dropship...

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:20 pm

Amazing how things can go sideways so fast. Abduction mission:

1) squaddie heavy gets hit twice in half cover on alien's first turn (activated them in my first turn). Amazingly he's only bleeding out with a support dude right beside him. He's out for the fight but he lives.

2) Lots of back and forth positioning. Promising rookie gets a grenade kill and promotion.

3) I'm working my way around the building. Solid covering overwatch. Things are going well.

4) Patrol spots us just as we are about to breach a door. Open it anyway. Bam, 5 aliens (2 floaters, 3 sectoids) activated

5) fall back into the building through a different door. Continue to fall back into heavy cover. Overwatch nails a floater.

6) Support throws smoke onto another squaddie support in full cover. Squaddie support gets shot and killed while in full cover and smoke. Giant middle finger for everyone.

7) Lt. Sniper gets hit from max range and panics. We've got 1 unconscious and 1 dead and sniper is weak willed. She snipes a dude during panic attack. Small miracles.

8) Promising rookie takes up flanking position in full cover for next turn. Promising rookie gets shot and killed in full cover. Sniper loses her mind.

9) Sniper recovers and moves up to support to get healed. 1 floater and 2 sectoids remain.

10) Floater flanks us (all of us on same exterior wall of building) but has nothing left in the tank. Sniper overwatch shoots him with pistol for 1 damage during this. Support stands adjacent to the floater and puts 4 in its head. 2 on 2 now.

11) Sectoid is boosted, shoots and destroys sniper's cover. Support advances into full cover with the plan of flanking if the opportunity arises. It doesn't. He gets hit but not killed. Panics and shoots and kills the boosted sectoid. MIracles.

12) Last sectoid is in 1/2 cover, Support is still panicked but the sniper has a headshot probability of 82%. She takes the shot and splashes green blood everywhere.

13) Mission accomplished. 2 dead (crappy squaddie support, promising rookie), 1 heavy squaddie (mediocre) in serious but stable condition (infirmary for whatever). Lt. Sniper moves to Captain (allowing me to buy 6th squad slot) and goes to the infirmary for almost a month (19 days). Support is in infirmary for 9 days.

It wasn't pretty, but those two losses are my very first and it's 1/2 way through the second month, so things have been going well up 'til now. I've got my second uplink under construction, 3 satellites in the queue, 1 power facility (standard) and an officers training academy with 6 squad slots open now. I should be able to grab Africa this month so I'll get a boost in cash (much, much needed). I've only got $180 coming in from satellite covered countries right now.

Research is suffering, as I've only got 7 scientists (currently researching arc thrower. Going on a capturing spree next month), but I've been lucky with engineers at 15. I can build laser rifles but I just don't have the cash right now. I should sell a UFO power supply and build some, but I don't wanna. But I think I'm gonna anyway.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:48 am

GreenGoo wrote:it's 1/2 way through the second month ... I can build laser rifles but I just don't have the cash right now. I should sell a UFO power supply and build some, but I don't wanna. But I think I'm gonna anyway.

I forget how compressed the game can be when you play without the Second Wave option for "Marathon" and I don't get Laser Rifles any earlier than Month 3 if I'm pushing for them. That's a lot of combat with basic arms - but the lasers change everything. Suddenly things die faster and I stop hemorrhaging soldiers so quickly.

I sell a lot of UFO components, but I also shoot down a lot of UFO's before I can start producing Firestorms... and then I only need 1 on each continent.

I've got to try leaving my home country exposed next time I play and see how that runs. By the end of the game I do miss Abduction missions.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:48 pm

I've gotten to a stage where everything has gone so well that I don't want to proceed because the pressure to continue to do well is greater than my comfort levels will allow.

I'm in month 3 and have only lost 2 guys. 1 was a rookie and the other was a squaddie. I have 2 majors and a couple of each class developing.

I recently grabbed Africa so the money was almost 500. I've had a bit of bad luck in that abduction missions have hit the same countries a couple of times and now both the UK and Russia will leave at the end of the month unless I drop satellites on them, which is fine but not what I was planning. There is a small chance I can get 2 uplinks and 6 satellites built this month which would solve my panic issues, but I'd have to give up building anything else for the entire month, and I still don't have anything beyond basic armour and mutons are starting to show up.

Research is incredibly slow with only 9 scientists working the microscopes.

Oh crap, I can't build a second uplink because I don't have enough engineers I don't think. Hmmm.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:05 pm

So I get the second slingshot mission and decide it's not worth the effort, but then I realize I have a 6 man squad for the first time for this mission, and everyone is a corporal or better, so I give it a shot.

I lost a VERY promising heavy because one of my snipers decided didn't crit a thin man leaving it alive with 1 hp, which used his light plasma rifle to make a long range shot AND crit with it. Oh well.

I almost lost a strong support but he pulled through. The train has left the station.

Next up is a boarding mission against a battleship. Yikes. If it's just a straight up assault it might be fun, but if it's another timed deal with mutons dropping right on top of me, no thanks.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:39 pm

So the boarding mission has been pretty awful. Thin men everywhere, and they haven't missed a shot yet in about 10 rounds of combat. I'm starting to wonder if they have special rules for this mission. My sniper with low profile, 2 elevation advantage with good high ground perk just took a plasma bolt to the face.

So far I've only lost a rookie (was trying to get him some exp) but all my guys have been clipped, some multiple times, and I'm all out of medic packs. So far I've turned off 1 of 6 power conduits and haven't left the first room with a conduit in it. All this with 2 overwatching snipers with squad sight.

things had better start going my way or I'm going to have to bail on the mission.

edit: shit, so I alt-tabbed here to comment, then went back in and made a terrible tactical mistake. I moved a low hp guy right beside a thin man to ensure a kill. Then I killed him. Sigh. So my 2 hp corporal is now poisoned and I have no medikits. On the plus side I realized the mistake before I pulled the trigger. On the negative side, I had no other option but to pull the trigger. He was done for once he stood beside the thin man.

Dumb and really makes this mission questionable now. Only 16% of the way through it.

edit2: Ok, thin men are throwing poison around like crazy. I have 2 members poisoned, and 2 members panicking even though I've only lost 1 guy so far (about to lose the second though). Screw this, pulling the cord. Not wiping for this.

edit3: Holy shit, 2 hp poisoned guy only stayed poisoned for 1 turn. Looks like he's gonna make it to the choppa. He's not worth much to me, there are 3 other members that must live through this, but he's not one of them.

edit4: Triad guy just ran through a Thin man's overwatch. I had no idea he was there and the architecture is unfamiliar to me. He lived, but couldn't run far because he's poisoned. I decided to go offensive because he was going to have no cover next turn and couldn't outrun the thin man. 2 squares away, 84% chance, and of course I miss. Thin man is behind so much cover I can't get a shot at him, so I threw some dense smoke on the Triad dude and now we pray.

edit5: And he's dead. I can appreciate just how things came together to kill him off, but it's still too fresh to smile about it. And the shitty sniper just lost her mind and shot my support in the back of the head with her pistol (she's got gunslinger). He's alive, but geezus, he's one of the 3 (now 2) that I need to live.

edit6: So I get everyone to the extraction site, but the damn thinman chased us and he's going to get a shot before we lift off, and all my guys are out of cover. The 1 hp heavy fires a rocket through the door and obliterates the thin man, getting a promotion as the VTOL takes off. All members are injured spending between a week and 2 weeks in the infirmary. I think I'm gonna hafta hire some new guys.

I have a mediocre sniper and a mediocre heavy that are inexplicably rising through the ranks. Better than nothing I guess.

edit last: I have 2 healthy soldiers in the barracks. Both rookies without a mission between them. I could be screwed here. Oh, and they are both terrible, which is why I've never taken them on a mission up until now.

edit last of the last: And of course I get a grounded UFO mission THE SAME DAY, so my new hires are still 3 days off. Missing this mission sucks. I is unhappy, but I guess as far as bad things going, it could be a lot worse.

edit really last this time: and the council wants me to go back to the battle ship day after I left it, with 2 rookies. Pass. Plus middle finger.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:24 am

GreenGoo wrote:edit really last this time: and the council wants me to go back to the battle ship day after I left it, with 2 rookies. Pass. Plus middle finger.

That's XCOM baby!

I've played through in non-Ironman enough now that I know exactly where and what will spawn in the scripted missions. I set up overwatch and tactical positions and can wipe the floor as soon as things drop/teleport in. Normally, when an alien critical hits and one-shots a good soldier, I reload and find a different way through... not so much anymore. I've never minded scuffs, bruises, and long medical stays - but one-shot kills are bullshit when you lose a crucial soldier to it.

If you're enjoying the game, you may want to get the Enemy Within DLC sooner than later. The game changes drastically - and not just new enemies and missions. My absolute favorite part of the game has become using soldiers with Mimetic Skin to stealth into areas as scouts and then letting my Snipers start the fight from well off-screen. Makes for some easy kills and missions.

Mimetic Skin is a genetic mod you can give a soldier (it's expensive, but SO worth it for at least one soldier to have). When that soldier isn't seen by enemies, they can move to high cover and become invisible when they do. As long as they're not in visual range of an alien when they move, they always go invisible when they go to high cover. This means you can take that soldier and run him across the map by himself safely as long as no aliens are present and you're always going to high cover. If you do see aliens, he will remain invisible until he takes an action - moving again, tossing a grenade, or shooting. Waiting, reloading, and using Hunker Down do not break invisibility. This means your scout is safe and sound, sitting within visual range of hostiles, until you choose to start the fight. Snipers with Low Profile treat low cover as high cover and go invisible as well - awesome for places where there's no high cover. The only thing you need to watch out for is auto-triggered abilities like Overwatch or the Assault's Close Quarters skill that shoots things within 4 spaces when they move; a painful lesson, there, as they're suddenly out of stealth and exposed during the enemy turn... I love making an Assault with good movement my stealth scout, and avoid giving them that skill to stop them from getting themselves killed.

Mechanically augmented soldiers (Enemy Within) can also be monstrous game changers. They have high health, powerful weapons, and skills to offset the fact that they can't take cover. For example, a Support class Mech Soldier radiates an aura that gives +10 defense to nearby soldiers in cover, and you can outfit them with AoE healing charges or explosives (mines and grenades). As a lover of explosives, I tend to lay waste to a lot of terrain using my Mech troopers. They even have a weapon-based cover destroying attack that can be used over and over and over, allowing you to plow through walls and strip enemies of cover.

Mech Troopers and Genetic mods are available pretty early on, but are expensive additions to your arsenal.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:25 pm

Well the damn battleship mission comes up every few days. I'm just passing on it constantly. Lost a satellite over Africa since I only had 1 interceptor there. Managed to lose it too before I realized how hard the UFO was hitting.

still, in month 4, no one has left the council yet, 2 workshops in the queue, South America, Africa and (starting) Asia bonuses in place. I'm seriously thinking about letting India go this turn, and possibly Australia too. That would allow me to grab all of Europe next month.

Took down my first cyberdisk last Abduction mission, using laser rifles, standard sniper rifle, standard LMG and no armour. also took down a couple of mutons, some floaters and a drone. Combat started on turn one and my guys were mostly stuck in a parking lot, taking cover behind big chunks of metal filled with gasoline. No losses, so I'm kinda proud of that one. Oh, the mutons both intimidated when hit on turn 2 and my leader of the squad and only sniper decided to panic.

I recently bought the will boost from the academy. Hopefully that helps any new people coming through.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:16 am

GreenGoo wrote:taking cover behind big chunks of metal filled with gasoline. No losses, so I'm kinda proud of that one. Oh, the mutons both intimidated when hit on turn 2 and my leader of the squad and only sniper decided to panic.

The parking lot starts are always worst-case scenario. Cars are miserable cover, and explosive to boot. Good work! I've been enjoying a long string of flawless missions thanks to experienced soldiers and laser weapondry. Most enemies die the turn they're exposed, and I use a Mimetic Skin scout to find them. I almost feel bad for Thin Men now as their pods are blown up from off-screen by a rocket before they can even position. This scout also packs a Arc Thrower and captures wounded aliens fairly easily and safely.

GreenGoo wrote:Well the damn battleship mission comes up every few days. I'm just passing on it constantly. Lost a satellite over Africa since I only had 1 interceptor there. Managed to lose it too before I realized how hard the UFO was hitting.

At least you're getting the option. I failed the train mission and it hasn't come back - and I've got no Battleship access.

I am, however, in the middle of producing Firestorms and researching EMP weapons. That's the end-game for air combat and I can sell off all my regular fighters. Right now I've got 3 Firestorms and 3 Lasers for them. I haven't shot down anything bigger than a Large Scout yet, but have had a couple Abductors or Supply Barges that I skipped engaging since they're just pointless to attack with regular fighters and Phoenix Cannons.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:39 am

Yeah, it seems like by the time I get the North American bonus, I won't be using interceptors any more so what's the point.

Now that I've got South America's bonus I guess I should start focusing on capturing aliens. I love capturing aliens and it's one of my favourite things to do in the original X-com. Of course now Cyberdisks and Mutons are roaming around and I've got no armour yet so capturing aliens now isn't as easy as it normally is in month 1 and 2.

As I mentioned earlier, I tend to get a bit gun-shy after a period of success. It's easy to start over in month 1 if things go poorly, but in month 4, losing my primary squad would be devastating. Having a well armed and armoured squad of rookies still means it is going to be very challenging keeping them alive (and I don't even have any armour yet). No captures and no scientists has made carapace armour a month long endeavour that I haven't taken on yet, but will shortly out of necessity.

In any case, I seem to be able to overcome my reluctance to play for fear of something bad happening, at least in short term bursts, so I've managed to keep moving forward despite some setbacks and irrational (very minor) anxiety over making a mistake.

I had forgotten how much I love Assaults. They are just my most bestest favouritest class ever. Really great and fun.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:03 am

GreenGoo wrote:I had forgotten how much I love Assaults. They are just my most bestest favouritest class ever. Really great and fun.

Assaults are probably under-utilized in my squads. The other classes get defensive skills that can benefit the entire team, Assaults get a lot of Lone Ranger skills with no benefit for the squad.

Heavies: Shredder Rockets and Suppression are great situational skills; Rockets and Danger Zone with Rocketeer makes for a lot of blast damage.
Support: Speed, Smoke, extra Smoke, Suppression, Healing - all good things for everyone. Also a good choice for an Arc Thrower with the +Move.
Snipers: Disabling weapons have saved more soldiers than I could count and allowed for a lot of captures.
Assault: Tends to get the Arc Thrower, Run & Gun is useful, and double-shot is lethal.

My typical squad has a Support person in a front spot, who moves to max "single movement" range to advance the squad and check for safety. With Mimetic Skin, anyone can do it but Support still moves the furthest.

On the bright side - Steam says only something like 1.7% of people have completed Classic Ironman. If you can pull it off, it's a good thing and it sounds like the only thing stopping you is a few soldier losses or country defections. Nothing terrible or unlivable.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:49 am

Yeah, assaults don't get a lot of love in strategy guides or from most players. I don't know why I like them so much. They are fast, VERY defensive or VERY offensive with the right skill choices, and have no problems taking the fight to the aliens. I despise sitting in overwatch for more than 1 turn, so Assaults let me be proactive while minimizing the risk when accidentally walking into Alien overwatch.

Also, shotguns. Hooo-ah.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:53 am

Yeah, I'd be really surprised if this game was unwinnable now. I'm 3.5 months in and things are pretty great. Some very minor things have gone wrong and that was a hit to my morale (I'm very susceptible to unhappiness when bad things happen for whatever reason) but objectively this is far enough along that most decent Ironman players could win this now.

Note: This is my first (potentially) successful Ironman run.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:49 pm

This has been a great read.

I'm going to have to rethink my rocket policy. I took the don't blow up the aliens warnings too seriously and almost never use rockets.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:50 pm

Fitzy wrote:This has been a great read.

I'm going to have to rethink my rocket policy. I took the don't blow up the aliens warnings too seriously and almost never use rockets.

Right there with you. I almost always only used rockets as a last resort to try to save people.

I am going to try some of these tactics that you guys are outlining.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:10 pm

RMC wrote:
Fitzy wrote:This has been a great read.

I'm going to have to rethink my rocket policy. I took the don't blow up the aliens warnings too seriously and almost never use rockets.
Right there with you. I almost always only used rockets as a last resort to try to save people.

I am going to try some of these tactics that you guys are outlining.

Ditto, although I'm more lax now than I used to be. I prefer to shoot things, and that's my go-to approach, and sometimes I'll even take a less than 50% shot instead of chucking a grenade.

But here's the thing. I tend to give everyone a scope or a medikit or an arc thrower or nano-vest, so eventually entire teams have no grenades. I used to keep 1 or two guys with grenades just in case, but how it usually works is they are too far from where I need to chuck the grenade, so now everyone takes grenades (except maybe the sniper) or no one does. Both work pretty well for me.

Whether I fire a rocket depends on what the risks are to my crew. If the enemy is scary, rocket. If my dude is likely to die, grenade. Otherwise I'm still happy to play the percentages.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:49 pm

GreenGoo wrote:I tend to give everyone a scope or a medikit or an arc thrower or nano-vest, so eventually entire teams have no grenades. I used to keep 1 or two guys with grenades just in case, but how it usually works is they are too far from where I need to chuck the grenade, so now everyone takes grenades (except maybe the sniper) or no one does. Both work pretty well for me.

I'm running Enemy Within, so my loadout is a little different. I give everyone Respirator Impants (+2HP, Immune to Poison/Choke) and Scope upgrades, except for my capture agent - go gets an Arc Thrower. I bring one along every mission and try to capture two aliens as often as possible until I'm overloaded with Plasma weapons and have enough to equip every soldier I have, in-squad or not. I'm weird like that and enjoy capturing aliens. I like to pretend I'm getting new intel from them when I bring them in.

Early on, the Respirator Implant is a godsend that stops Thin Men from even bothering to use their spit attacks. I only stop using it for every combat when I get self-contained armors like Titan Armor. Prior to Enemy Within, this slot was a grab-bag of whatever I thought I needed along with the Scope. Now I trade out the Scope and keep this in place.

The Scope is possibly the single best item in the game since percentages rule the battlefield. It's hard to not have one, even on a Sniper with 120 Aim... because I know something is going to be behind High cover and I'll want to pop it in the head. My Snipers carry Scopes and Medkits early in the game and get use as emergency medics to stabilize dying soldiers. Once they get Squadsight, they don't need extra armor... and sometimes it's good to have someone not immune to Choke in order to lure Seekers into an ambush when they de-cloak.

Heavies are very nice when you combine them with Not Created Equally. A Heavy can only gain 10 Aim on the road to Colonel. They normally move from 65 to 75 and always perform poorly at range. With Not Created Equally, a Heavy can start at 80 Aim (!) and move to 90. That's some good shootin'! The only downside to that Second Wave option is that you burn through a lot of useless rookies and spend 5x more in recruiting to get a few good soldiers - but they are worth it. I keep anyone who's got 70, 75, or 80 Aim and throw everyone else out - except a number of "Fodder" rookies to take along as lightning rods.

If you take Shredder Rockets on a Heavy, with Danger Zone and Rocketeer, you get 3 Rockets to shoot off that all have massive blast zones. That means it's usually easy to hit 2-3 enemies at once... and kill maybe 3 groups of Thin Men instantly. Additionally, the Shredder is beautiful against high-health or high-armor enemies since it makes them take 33% more damage. I use these to soften up Berserkers, Mechtoids, Cyberdiscs, and Sectopods. Mechanized enemies also mean I tend to always take HEAT ammo for my Heavies - then they become the Mech killers of the group.

In my Ironman playthrough, I've become far more liberal with Rockets than I ever thought I would be. I like to come home with none left and will use them if only to destroy a wide swath of cover or blow open a building so I can see inside without sending someone to go knock. I love them - except for the 10% stray shot. Those suck when they clip someone in your team ... so fire at enemies downrange, not standing next to your soldiers up front. I like to push it, though... and have paid for that twice. No deaths, but some pretty annoyed troopers that had to spend time in the medbay.

Group of Chrysalids next to a civilian? Rocket! That civvie was gonna die next turn anyway and now the bugs are a hair from death.

Your Mimetic Skin scout has spotted a group of unaware Thin Men? Rocket! They never know what hits 'em.

A pair of Seekers went invisible? Rocket! Just aim where they were and you're likely to kill one or both*.

A couple Mutons are hiding in a parking lot? Rocket! They both die from combined exploding cars and rocket damage.

Note on Seekers, kind of cheating:

Spoiler:

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:09 pm

Put me in the "use explosives all the time camp". I don't play Ironman, but my guys pack a full load of grenades and rockets and make heavy use of them, Dr. Vahlen's complaints notwithstanding. Alien hiding behind high cover? Boom, explosive. Aliens grouped up a little too tightly for their own good? Boom, explosive. Generally low odds of making a shot? Boom, explosive at 90% odds. You know what's better than having an extra weapon fragment? Having more troopers survive a mission. If I want more plasma guns, I'll capture some mutons. If I ever decide to play through this game again, I'm going to try Danger Zone as a perk. I don't remember what the alternative is (I think it's the one where you have three grenades per slot instead of one), but I tend to gravitate towards that due to my love of blowing aliens to kibble. Bombs should also be used freely against EXALT guys, because you're not losing weapon fragments or anything.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:12 pm

Paingod wrote:
Note on Seekers, kind of cheating:
Spoiler:
When a Seeker is invisible, you can select a soldier and hold down right-click to highlight the movement grid. By looking for squares that don't have borders inside them, you can identify the squares the Seekers occupy. It's a cheap move, but Seekers are cheap enemies and I don't feel bad about finding them this way at all. A rocket or grenade to that square will uncover/kill the Seeker.

This "tactic" also works to identify where enemies are before you enter a room or if they've run around a corner. Ways to survive in Ironman are not left unused.

Interestingly enough, you might recall that this kind of thing worked in the original X-Com as well. Especially, it came in handy when sending blaster bombs up elevator shafts, or into the alien brain room in the final mission (because, really, who the hell wants to storm a room with like five ethereals in it?).

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:24 pm

NickAragua wrote:You know what's better than having an extra weapon fragment? Having more troopers survive a mission. If I want more plasma guns, I'll capture some mutons. If I ever decide to play through this game again, I'm going to try Danger Zone as a perk. I don't remember what the alternative is (I think it's the one where you have three grenades per slot instead of one), but I tend to gravitate towards that due to my love of blowing aliens to kibble. Bombs should also be used freely against EXALT guys, because you're not losing weapon fragments or anything.

Agreed! Oh how I love to blow Exalt soldiers up and deny them any kind of useful cover around the transmitters.

I love Danger Zone because I rarely equip grenades and always have a few Rockets in the squad instead. I tend to slot my Heavies with Scopes and extra armor of some kind instead. Getting close enough to make good use of a grenade can mean getting too close to being flanked and too close to Mutons tossing grenades back at you.

My standard skills are...
Heavy: Bullet Swarm, Shredder Rocket, HEAT Ammo, Danger Zone, and Rocketeer.
Sniper: Squadsight, Damn Good Ground, Disabling Shot, Opportunist, and Double Tap.
Assault: Tactical Sense, Lightning Reflexes, Rapid Fire, Close Combat Specialist, and Resilience.
Support: Sprinter, Smoke and Mirrors, Rifle Suppression, Dense Smoke, and Sentinel

I tend to play a very defensive game and it works well for me overall.

Sometimes the Support deviates and I make a Healer, but once I get good armor the Healers fade and stop getting used. I also tend to make an Assault (just one) that doesn't have Close Combat Specialist and use that as a Mimetic Skin Scout/Arc Thrower Capture soldier. He'll sit right next to the aliens and watch the fight unfold and then de-cloak to claim a capture before the last one dies.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:44 pm

Captured my first Alien. Turns out it's an Outsider. So I've got that done already. Unfortunately it doesn't count as a live alien capture and there is nothing to interrogate, so I'm still at that point in the story line, and the Outsider crystal, while in inventory, is not a researchable item yet.

You explosives experts would be proud of me. Regular rocket (went off target) damaged 2 Mutons and dropped their cover to light/half, then a thin man was stupid enough to join them next turn, so a shredder rocket finished off all 3.

Pretty happy with the results, as I was in a poor defensive position and only a little smoke and luck kept my guys from getting whacked.

Out of 15 soldiers, 4 of them are support, which is about the right percentage, except 6 of those soldiers are still rookies, so it's really 4 support out of 9 soldiers. Don't get me wrong, I like the support class, but I could really use a good heavy (I do have a decent one that is getting better all the time). And it wouldn't hurt to get a sniper that didn't panic constantly.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:30 pm

Man, I need armour finally. Mutons crit'ing for 12. Was just about to capture one too when he ran past the only guy I had on overwatch (was hidden and just overwatching in case he got ambushed).

Lost a squaddie support (good starting stats though) and my only heavy, a Lt. I had been treating him as medium expendable since his starting stats were meh. I didn't notice he'd made it all the way to Lt. Pretty amazing, and a loss to Xcom.

I currently have no rockets in my arsenal.