Octopus Overlords

by **Sepiche** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:41 pm

tgb wrote:With these updates do you have to download a whole new build, or can you patch the one that was released initially?

It's a patch you can grab right next to the original download link.

by **ydejin** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:40 pm

Sepiche wrote:
tgb wrote:With these updates do you have to download a whole new build, or can you patch the one that was released initially?

It's a patch you can grab right next to the original download link.

Definitely get the patch if you're playing tgb. It has greatly reduced the game crashing for me. I've only had it crash once in 250 turns. I definitely couldn't say that for 0.75.

by **ydejin** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:44 pm

There's a patch 0.77 up. See spoiler for changelog.

Spoiler:

by **Butterknife** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:52 pm

tgb wrote:Butterknife -

What difficulty and size map were you playing?

I was playing on a small map at medium difficulty with 3 other AI players (1 friendly, 2 unfriendly).

ydejin wrote:
Butterknife wrote:There are still many bugs. I cast a spell that was supposed to let my tactical battle spells cost half, but when I got into the next fight they had doubled. As my main hero was a caster, it was almost the death of me right there! Luckily I also built up an absolutely kick-butt fighting hero and he managed to save the day. Maul has got to be the most overpowered ability in the game -- at least against a lot of the slower monsters that can't dodge.

Hmm. Was that Mantle of the Oceans? That was definitely bugged in 0.75 and doubling the cost of spells, but it's supposed to be fixed in 0.76 and it does appear to be working correctly for me now.

Yeah, that was the spell -- Mantle of the Oceans. It doubled my mana costs. I was definitely playing 0.76 too. Unfortunately I don't have a save game from there, so I can't prove it or send it in to Stardock to take a look. Maybe it was because I started the game in 0.75 and switched to 0.76 after the first 10 turns or so, without starting a completely new game.

Oh yeah, and a big "Huzzah!" to the programmers for getting the AI processing onto a separate thread -- I absolutely love how quickly the turns go. Being able to hit "End Turn" and having it be practically instantly my turn again, even with saving every turn, really adds to the one-more-turn factor. It is easy to overlook but makes a huge difference when you are actually playing.

by **The Meal** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:00 pm

Brad Wardell wrote:The end game slog is something that Derek has plans for. One nice thing is that since this is a magic-based game, there are lots of interesting things you can do to make the late game different.

There's probably going to be an update today -- 0.77 to fix the maul bug but I snuck in some AI stuff too.

Opposite of bummer! Great to hear that Kael hasn't trotted out all the end-game fun that's on the agenda. I'm way out of the loop regarding just how cooked things are, glad to hear the brownies have a while left in the oven.

by **ydejin** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:02 pm

Butterknife wrote:
tgb wrote:Butterknife -

What difficulty and size map were you playing?

I was playing on a small map at medium difficulty with 3 other AI players (1 friendly, 2 unfriendly).

ydejin wrote:
Butterknife wrote:There are still many bugs. I cast a spell that was supposed to let my tactical battle spells cost half, but when I got into the next fight they had doubled. As my main hero was a caster, it was almost the death of me right there! Luckily I also built up an absolutely kick-butt fighting hero and he managed to save the day. Maul has got to be the most overpowered ability in the game -- at least against a lot of the slower monsters that can't dodge.

Hmm. Was that Mantle of the Oceans? That was definitely bugged in 0.75 and doubling the cost of spells, but it's supposed to be fixed in 0.76 and it does appear to be working correctly for me now.

Yeah, that was the spell -- Mantle of the Oceans. It doubled my mana costs. I was definitely playing 0.76 too. Unfortunately I don't have a save game from there, so I can't prove it or send it in to Stardock to take a look. Maybe it was because I started the game in 0.75 and switched to 0.76 after the first 10 turns or so, without starting a completely new game.

Oh yeah, and a big "Huzzah!" to the programmers for getting the AI processing onto a separate thread -- I absolutely love how quickly the turns go. Being able to hit "End Turn" and having it be practically instantly my turn again, even with saving every turn, really adds to the one-more-turn factor. It is easy to overlook but makes a huge difference when you are actually playing.

If you've still got that particular game going, you can kill Mantle of Oceans from the Enchantment's list (Ledger > Enchantment's Tab) and see if recasting it fixes the problem.

[Edit] Just noticed that you specifically said you didn't have a save anymore :oops:

Anyway I reloaded my game with Torax's head which was bugged and it's still bugged even though it's on the patch fix list, so I'm guessing some of their stuff simply isn't retroactively applied to ongoing games.

by **lokiju** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:44 pm

I'm enjoying this beta immensely so far. I agree that the late game is a chore, but I also feel that it seems to be true of most 4x games. One thing I loved about the Warlords games was the plot point system. A creature gets created in town A, and it automatically goes to town F for you.

by **ydejin** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:42 am

lokiju wrote:I'm enjoying this beta immensely so far. I agree that the late game is a chore, but I also feel that it seems to be true of most 4x games. One thing I loved about the Warlords games was the plot point system. A creature gets created in town A, and it automatically goes to town F for you.

Yeah that was pretty handy. I would designate a troop depot close to my front lines and all new units would end up there without needing any babysitting.

by **tgb** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:44 am

Enjoying my .77 game. Oddly enough, while there is no coast within my borders, I am able to build a dock. I assume that's a bug, but who knows?

by **lokiju** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:54 am

tgb wrote:Enjoying my .77 game. Oddly enough, while there is no coast within my borders, I am able to build a dock. I assume that's a bug, but who knows?

Haha, every town has gotta have lakefront property for the rich merchants to live in!

by **ydejin** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:18 am

tgb wrote:Enjoying my .77 game. Oddly enough, while there is no coast within my borders, I am able to build a dock. I assume that's a bug, but who knows?

Sadly docks cannot be built on the coast (I tried). They are only build-able on rivers. Between docks and the waterwheel improvement, rivers are a great place for a town (although waterwheel got nerfed in the last patch).

by **Shinjin** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:07 pm

ydejin wrote:Sadly docks cannot be built on the coast (I tried). They are only build-able on rivers.

Assuming it's not a bug, someone should recommend "wharf" for an ocean-side structure.

by **ydejin** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:49 pm

Shinjin wrote:
ydejin wrote:Sadly docks cannot be built on the coast (I tried). They are only build-able on rivers.

Assuming it's not a bug, someone should recommend "wharf" for an ocean-side structure.

That's a good idea. I don't think it's a bug because the official in game description of a dock is "Docks can only be built on rivers, they provide the city with +10% Gildar and +5 Food per Grain.

I suppose one problem with putting them on the beach is that Raise Land could make the dock land locked. I haven't tried it, but I would imagine Raise Land does nothing on a river, because AFAICT rivers are almost completely cosmetic (except that they enable Docks and Waterwheels).

by **LordMortis** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:08 am

Well, I had no time for video games this weekend and yet I was up until 07:00 Fri/Sat and 04:00 Sat/Sun playing this game through a couple of false starts to learn the game, so it definitely has the one more turn feel or at the very least that new video game smell.

It's buggy and that's what made me put the game away at all. I was late in the game and a crash corrupted both my save game and my autosave game and that was enough to make me put it away and not come back.

My assessment for the "normal" game in beta.

Late game Heroes are way too powerful and playing strictly with heroes and no troops is encouraged by the fact that upgrading your troops is broken. Every time I went to upgrade any troop it always claimed the cost was 11,000 and some odd Gildar. To give an idea of worth, my entire late game empire of 6 fully built cites was generating about 200 Gildar a turn.

The tiny grain materials symbols are something I often get backwards. I think I'm used to brownish colored stuff being food and blackish stuff being materials.

It's annoying to not understand what constitutes a "grain" area 8 spaces away from an existing village, establishing where pioneers can settle until a pioneer gets near an area.

There are no monster spawns. Unless they spawn slowly at lairs. If they do spawn at lairs then I need to learn to farm them because having completely tamed the lands sucks when you are not looking to attack your neighbors. The same goes for new heroes. Once the over land findable heroes are claimed or killed, that's it. They are not renewable resources. So killing enemy faction heroes is super important for gimping half the players in the game.

The AI over extends itself, and fast. This forces me to expand quicker than I'm comfortable with and doing so right into a weak over extended empire. The game would rockin' PBEM for people who have patience for it but the Strategic AI leaves a lot to be desired when it comes claiming its rights to precious real estate.

Outposts of destroyed empires don't go away and then you can't get rid of them.

Being able to run tactical spell deficits against your overland total spell points is annoying. If you don't pay close attention to your combat mana you can totally screw your over land management plans. For that matter if you don't manage your over land management, you don't really get to have a tactical magic game. For that matter I'm not sure I'm comfortable with everyone pulling from the same mana pool, but I could get used to that. My current solution is run 100% strength in the tactical game and ignore tactical magic completely.

Some quests/heroes/caches disappear when you jump on them.

You ought to be able to undo your movement. This a particular pain in the ass because I sometimes take turns quick enough that I expect one hero to be moving and then I accidentally move another or don't realize my range isn't going to be good enough to do what I want until after I've moved. Or the hero jumps to wrong spot and I'm stuck there.

The slow downs for things like Defend or Sweep in tactical game are intolerable.

On the strategic map there needs to be a way to tell which heroes have moved and which ones haven't. There should be a key to scroll through heroes that have yet to move. There should also be pathing showed for your heroes to make sure you are happy with the path they choose to take to get to their destination.

On the units/towns/quests boxes on the left there needs to be a way see the idons that extend further than your screen. This becomes particularly annoying when the game glitches and unhides all of your caravans. Now, suddenly I've got three active heroes but I can't hot key to them, scroll to them, or click on the on the left of the screen because all I can see are 18 caravans.

I (mostly) don't like how when you move your last hero, you have the option to move to your next turn by clicking on another heroes movement. It helps the game move quicker but it can screw with your intention to manage your cities in a given season.

Be warned that not all of the town improvements work. My guess is that if town improvement doesn't have a picture associated with it, but rather it displayed as white box then you won't be able to build it.

So that's a lot of beta complaints, but even with all of those annoyances I still shouldn't have played video games this weekend and I probably put in more than 24 hours into this game over the course of the 60 hours I wasn't at work between Friday evening and Monday morning, which was the vast majority of my waking weekend. For whatever reason this has lots of things things that make the game work better than the original. Maybe it's the tactical combat. Maybe it's the integrated pacing and flow between combat, expansion, technology, and town building. Maybe it's the care in making some interesting quest variety of which I'm sure I've seen very little. (I particularly like the gladiatorial games quest) Maybe it's the addition of the seriously tainted lands, so you have this goal to beat the AI into going after them. It's lots of things that seem to hold my interest and do so well.

by **abr** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:36 pm

LordMortis wrote:There should be a key to scroll through heroes that have yet to move.

TAB might be of interest to you.

by **LordMortis** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:40 pm

abr wrote:
LordMortis wrote:There should be a key to scroll through heroes that have yet to move.

TAB might be of interest to you.

It might rabbit. It might. Is there a hotkey listing that I missed (Like not coming through the options menu) or did you just mash buttons until to found it? In short, are there other hot keys I should know about?

Also, other changes I'd like, being able to set the order of your troops before combat begins or at least have a default order for layout/ranks and when you pass, you should be able to hold your action (which may already be the case and I didn't notice because of initiative modifiers)

by **abr** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:53 pm

LordMortis wrote:
abr wrote:
LordMortis wrote:There should be a key to scroll through heroes that have yet to move.

TAB might be of interest to you.

It might rabbit. It might. Is there a hotkey listing that I missed (Like not coming through the options menu) or did you just mash buttons until to found it? In short, are there other hot keys I should know about?

Just something I remembered from E:WoM. My button mashing times are long over (the era of the C64 and lots of not so legally aquired games). If on the other hand, say for nostalgia's sake, one were inclined to engage in a little button mashing, this keyboard list from the E:WoM wiki might be a good place to start.

(Btw, agreeing with the rest of your points.)

by **Jaymon** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:32 am

I am continuing to have trouble with corrupted save games, even when I made the save myself and shut the game down as expected. Because of that, I still have very little experience in the end game.
And maul. Egads maul. It is seriously broken. But I am still enjoying the game, very very strange.

by **LordMortis** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:42 am

Jaymon wrote:I am continuing to have trouble with corrupted save games, even when I made the save myself and shut the game down as expected. Because of that, I still have very little experience in the end game.
And maul. Egads maul. It is seriously broken. But I am still enjoying the game, very very strange.

Maul wasn't a problem for me in .77. It seemed pretty trivial, even. What version are you running? I do have big problems with crashes ever, slow downs and a big enough problem with corrupted saves that I'm waiting for the next version to try again.

by **Baroquen** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:48 am

I'm getting into an endgame scenario in my current game, and it's things are getting a little rough to manage. I loved playing and getting to this point, and I'll probably finish (was just busy today), but yeah, there's a lot to handle at the end.

Haven't had any corruption problems yet, knock on wood.

I like maul on the mobs... adds some danger to the mix. It was a little overpowered when I gave my fighter champion an axe with the ability. (But hey.. I don't mind steamrolling the competition sometimes!

)

by **LordMortis** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:24 am

Baroquen wrote:I'm getting into an endgame scenario in my current game, and it's things are getting a little rough to manage. I loved playing and getting to this point, and I'll probably finish (was just busy today), but yeah, there's a lot to handle at the end.

Haven't had any corruption problems yet, knock on wood.

I like maul on the mobs... adds some danger to the mix. It was a little overpowered when I gave my fighter champion an axe with the ability. (But hey.. I don't mind steamrolling the competition sometimes! )

None of my guys have received a weapon with maul and I don't use spells in combat.

I wonder if my corruption (and possibly lag problems) have do to with playing on huge maps with the maxium amount of enemies (though most of the enemies seem to die pretty quick and comes down to game of about 5 to 6 players pretty fast).

by **Sepiche** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:29 am

LordMortis wrote:though most of the enemies seem to die pretty quick and comes down to game of about 5 to 6 players pretty fast

Brad mentioned over at Qt3 he found a bug that was causing the AI to occasionally get slaughtered. Their leaders would go out and if they got killed by a creature they would respawn in town, but the creatures target wouldn't be reset, so it would make a beeline for the town the sovereign was in and destroy them both.

by **LordMortis** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:33 am

Sepiche wrote:
LordMortis wrote:though most of the enemies seem to die pretty quick and comes down to game of about 5 to 6 players pretty fast

Brad mentioned over at Qt3 he found a bug that was causing the AI to occasionally get slaughtered. Their leaders would go out and if they got killed by a creature they would respawn in town, but the creatures target wouldn't be reset, so it would make a beeline for the town the sovereign was in and destroy them both.

I saw that. The bug didn't bother me. People getting quick killed happens and when you play with like 13 players, like I do, narrowing down the playing field isn't so bad. Choosing a week computer players and harrassing a sovereign and the towns he's hiding in until he goes away completely is what I do to computer players too.

In the origianal Elementals there was an exploit where you could back a sovereign into a corner and kill them again and again and for XP every turn. I'd have fun farming levels with my sovereign while sending other champion stacks out to actually go about the business of conquering the world, just to see how tough I could get my sovereign. With the Discipline (and the intelligence equivalent), I'd love to see how sick you can make a sovereign. On the last game I was playing, before it crashed I think my sovereign was in his 50s for levelling and I had a lot of game to go. His intelligence XP bonus plus his warlord XP bonus made him into a single sweep killer of everything but Obsidian Golems and the Epic quest monster. Carrying around 7 npcs each giving him 10% of their XPs was just brutal.

I'm looking forward to retrying with .78 comes out, though I'm not looking forward to the time I lose having that fun. I'm too damned busy to enjoy this game.

by **Zarathud** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:40 am

Having problems with the login. Is it just me?

by **ydejin** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:27 am

Zarathud wrote:Having problems with the login. Is it just me?

FWIW, I just fired it up Fallen Enchantress Beta and it definitely starts for me and shows my name as "Logged in as ...". I can also go to the Official Elemental/Fallen Enchantress forums and it shows me as logged in.

by **Zarathud** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 am

It resolved itself after a few hours.

by **LordMortis** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:24 pm

I was hoping to see .78 this week.

But it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

http://forums.elementalgame.com/417143

February 5, 2012 3:54:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can't promise 0.78 this week. It'll be Derek's call but I'm pushing to delay it. There's a lot of feedback to integrate into balance. Plus, there's a crapload of new music and art that has to go in that is just very time consuming.

This would actually be a good weekend to blow on FE. I don't think I have anything scheduled for the weekend.

It's a good sign that I'm really looking forward to the next iteration... Or a bad sign for my time, I guess.

by **ColdSteel** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:13 pm

I posted the below suggestion over on the FE Beta forums today as a reaction to the section in the latest update from Kael on what they're doing with Champion injuries in the next beta update. I'm curious what the folks here think about it.

[SUGGESTION] How to Make Champion Injuries Fun
By C0LDsteel on February 8, 2012 10:38:22 AM from Elemental Forums

“… The most significant direct change to champions is that injuries matter more. If you have a champion with 6-7 injuries on him he will be severely handicapped, it may be time to hand his equipment over to a promising newcomer without the battle scars.”

I think it’s great that injuries will matter more in the game. However, if injuries matter to the point that a powerful champion eventually becomes useless or unusable, I think that simply fosters an incentive to reload.

Since I think that the intent is to balance out the power of heroes, I have a suggestion that I think both fits the original intent of this change yet will add increased depth and fun to the gameplay along with interesting decisions about how to use your units and resources.

At the heart of it, the incentive to reload to avoid crippling injury really boils down to two things, I think.

1) No one wants to have a once great champion reduced to the point of zero usability without any possibility of rehabilitation.

2) The game provides no incentive to let them get injuries.

I think both of these can be addressed fairly easily entirely within the framework of the existing game by providing a mechanism for “rehabilitation’ of champions and by making that process fun and interesting.

My suggestion is to add quests for badly injured champions that “heal’ battle wounds or conditions. This provides a (time consuming way) to eventually bring a champion back up to fighting snuff. The quests could be unique to injured champions and completing each one could remove only one or two random conditions/injuries. If they have many injuries, that could take a while. They quests could be triggered only after the champion reaches a certain level of debilitation.

An example of such a quest might be to find a reclusive healer. Once found, the healer might have a quest of their own they want the champion to complete before they will help them. Another example: Find a legendary lost healing spring which might have guards that need to be defeated before the healing spring can be used. Each quest would only remove one or two “wounds” so a champion with a lot of them would have to complete multiple quests to get back to a usable state.

Since the champion is badly hurt and can’t fight well on his own, you would need to send units or possibly another champion along with him for protection and help. This introduces interesting game play decisions about how you want to use your units and resources during the game. Is it better to use my units now to protect that front line over there or defend this city over here or is it better to send them along on multiple, time consuming quests to eventually regain the power of one of my best champions? How many such quests should I let him go on? Just few enough to where he is marginally usable again? Or complete enough of them to where he is a power in the world once more? These are fun kinds of decisions to make.

If such a system was in place, I would not reload and would let my champions get injured because I would be able to have a lot of fun later on in the game trying to bring them back to glory once more. I would welcome and look forward to the interesting decisions I would have to make in order to rehabilitate my champions.

This suggestion also serves the purpose behind the intent of the change quoted above of balancing out Champions power in the game because they still get injuries, still become ineffective, still get removed from play for long periods of the game while they are questing for “cures”. The difference is that this is fun.

by **Bob** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:07 pm

I think that'd be awesome.

by **$iljanus** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:49 pm

Would be nice if I were able to heal some of my champion's injuries. It's pretty comical how many he has. He's a bleeder, only one eye so he occasionally hits friendly units, has had a bunch of diseases and other injuries with funny descriptions. That said, I bring him out every so often as frontline fodder and to see what other things can happen to the poor guy. :lol:

by **Shinjin** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:47 pm

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would solve the reload problem. I'd still be more likely to reload the game since cumulative injuries would effectively remove my hero from the game, along with additional resources to protect the hero, during the rehabilitation period. This would essentially handicap the player.

Now if rehabilitation did *more* than just restore the hero, then it might be worth it.

by **Newcastle** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:52 pm

Really glad to see the game is improving to such an engaging level. Cant wait to see it finally fleshed out.

by **ColdSteel** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:30 pm

Shinjin wrote:It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would solve the reload problem. I'd still be more likely to reload the game since cumulative injuries would effectively remove my hero from the game, along with additional resources to protect the hero, during the rehabilitation period. This would essentially handicap the player.

Now if rehabilitation did *more* than just restore the hero, then it might be worth it.

Well, that's kind of the choice. It wouldn't be worth it for just any Champion but if you had a real powerhouse that had developed all these debilitating injuries, then it might. Also, he'd still be getting whatever experience and items he might be earning from doing the rehabilitation quests.

There's actally a lot of different ways to implement this. I just wanted to throw it out to Brad and Kael to see what they thought of the idea. If they like it there's plenty of ways to implement it. They could also abstract it to the point of not even doing quests at all. You could just make it an uncomon city improvement. A 'house of healing' that would only serve one injuried hero at a time. Lots of different ways to do it.

I just know that personally I abolutely hate having a great hero ruined by these kind of things. I didn't like my Pretender Gods in Dominions 3 coming down with so many diseases, horror marks and missing eyes and limbs that they were useless either. It give you a big disincentive to take risks in the game.

by **Zarathud** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:55 pm

I like the idea of a quest to fix a hero. Eliminating the penalties is its own reward, and the additional RPG value would be incredible. You're not going to reload for the first few injuries, but I can see where a crippling injury would cause you to warehouse a hero for later instead of disbanding.

by **JonathanStrange** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:47 am

I like the idea of paying gold/money/something to some healer/sacred site to heal a hero's permanent damage. Reloading or risk avoidance would, I'd think, be reduced and yet there'd still be consequences to heroes' participation in combat.

by **Jaymon** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:40 am

I am just wondering if the AI heroes have the same sort of injuries. I am tired of whacking the exact same stack of heroes over and over while conquering an AI country, it would be nice to have some proof that the heroes are in fact getting injured

by **ydejin** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:31 am

Jaymon wrote:I am just wondering if the AI heroes have the same sort of injuries. I am tired of whacking the exact same stack of heroes over and over while conquering an AI country, it would be nice to have some proof that the heroes are in fact getting injured

They definitely do. If you inspect them you'll see that they are often dinged up quite badly.

by **Zarathud** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:01 am

The AI needs work, but YES! I just crushed Umber with a level 15+ party of heroes.

Umber had expanded to a few cities and had nice towns built, but with no real defenses after a quick strike on their main army. The other neighbor seemed to have stalled out early and really wasn't worth taking over. Either they were fighting each other or having problems with expanding in a manner which eliminated monster threats to their borders. A party sweeping the countryside borders can take care of that and level up nicely, but they'll need an occasional trained reinforcement (and an occasional reload after you've played a turn incredibly stupidly).

by **Fretmute** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:29 am

Hero stacks are dramatically overpowered right now, primarily because all of the Hero "+whatever to the entire army" abilities stack. Once you get 4 level 15 heroes with multiple +army initiative skills, each of your heroes gets to act twice before the other army moves. Combine that with the fact that Giant Form (+100% attack) and Growth (+50% attack) stack, you can have those cast on your melee badass, hike him over to the other army, and use Sweep to kill them all at once before they even move. It's essentially unstoppable.

Also, I discovered a truly hilarious bug: the 9 square uber-creatures that spawn as a result of the world zone quests are supremely vulnerable to Pandemonium, which casts random things on every enemy creature. That spell will hit the uber 9 times, and you're basically guaranteed a Daze (enemy skips turn) as a result, especially since Pandemonium appears to be unresistable. You can kill the thing with one guy, as long as he can cast that spell.

In further stacking ridiculousness, you can stack Mantle of Oceans (reduces mana cost of spells) with Affinity (skill that does the same thing) to make all of your combat spells free.

I see promise, but the balance needs some tweaking.

by **LordMortis** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:57 pm

For those interested but not interested to head off to Stardock, Beta 2 is supposed to be released Thursday.

http://forums.stardock.com/417915

Octopus Overlords

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