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Crusader Kings II

If it's a video game it goes here.

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Sepiche
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Crusader Kings II

Post by Sepiche »

I was surprised there wasn't a thread for this already, so hopefully I didn't just miss it again. :P

I've been greatly looking forward to this and I've been watching a good Let's Play of Crusader Kings II today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZJ6tKUt7iI" target="_blank

Gives a pretty good feel for things I think, and I really like the greater feeling of trying to manage all the internal politics of running a kingdom.
Last edited by Sepiche on Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

A couple of people whose opinions I respect have had nothing but good things to say about the state of the beta - particularly James Allen of outofeight reviews. I know I said no more day one purchases at full price, but the force is strong in this one.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by El Guapo »

I did very much enjoy Crusader Kings I, even with its relatively significant flaws, so I would be interested in Crusader Kings II. The broader issue is that it's really tough to make time for grand strategy computer games these days. Definitely a game that I'd like to send back through a portal to College Guapo.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Chaz »

This is one of the few upcoming games I might actually pay close to full price for. Maybe. I want to create a family of inbreds until I wind up with Tyrion Lannister.

Actually, the possibilities for a Song of Ice and Fire mod are pretty awesome for this one.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Sepiche »

Chaz wrote:Actually, the possibilities for a Song of Ice and Fire mod are pretty awesome for this one.
Not sure if you saw it, but I found a well done mod along those lines for CK:DV last year:
viewtopic.php?t=78026" target="_blank

It's still got a lot of the clunkyness of the original CK, but it was passable. I do really hope AGoT is popular enough now that someone will run with it and make a similar mod for CKII.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

There should be a demo out in the next week or so.
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Crusader Kings II

Post by baelthazar »

tgb wrote:A couple of people whose opinions I respect have had nothing but good things to say about the state of the beta - particularly James Allen of outofeight reviews. I know I said no more day one purchases at full price, but the force is strong in this one.
Is one of those people me (son of Montfort)? Although I don't know why you would trust Jim Allen more than me! ;)

Short answer is, CKII looks to be a strong release. From a professional medievalist's perspective, I'm fairly happy with all of the options available. Probably the most interactive Paradox game to date!

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

baelthazar wrote:
tgb wrote:A couple of people whose opinions I respect have had nothing but good things to say about the state of the beta - particularly James Allen of outofeight reviews. I know I said no more day one purchases at full price, but the force is strong in this one.
Is one of those people me (son of Montfort)? Although I don't know why you would trust Jim Allen more than me! ;)
It is. I'm just hoping to get his copy away from him before release day.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

Demo is out. It includes the full tutorial and 4 characters that can each be played for 20 years (King of Poland, Duke of Bohemia, Duchess of Tyscany and some heathen - Sheik Yerbooti, possibly). Save game is disabled, and, alas, no manual (although I wouldn't be surprised if they made it available to all who pre-order and register some time this week).

I just poked around a little bit last night, but will be diving in today at the King of Poland. Kielbasa and beer for everyone!
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Holman »

I'm totally interested in this one, but I'm going to make it a test case for self-control: I *will not* buy it until it is at least a month old, and only then if the consensus is that it is largely bug-free.

Initial reports are that I won't be disappointed, so this one is likely a March 7 buy for me. :)
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

Having just played 20 years as the Duke of Bohemia, I can say that this may be the best Paradox release ever. It certainly appears to be in the best shape at release.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Malacheye »

This is my first Paradox game since Europa Universalis 2 and Hearts of Iron 2. I played the heck out of EU2 and got a bit tired of the similar interface and game play to all of their titles.

I really want to like CK2 (I am a history teacher and just finished watching the movie ARN, so I am very interested in all of Paradox's historical titles), and I agree with tgb that the games looks polished without any bugs or crashes so far.

I went through the tutorials, but I have a few questions/concerns/issues...

There are sooooooooo many things to do (which makes the game great for all the strategy gamers that like micromanagement), that I am constantly feeling like I've left a ton of things out that I should be doing, and I cant seem to really "get started". As time passes slowly, I feel like I'm missing some direction...

I played around as the Byzantine character and felt as if I was waiting for events to happen and then just respond. I had control of only two provinces, but the Byzantine empire was all around me under the real leadership of my character's father. I was not sure if to raise an army (the empire already had thousands of soldiers running around Turkey and the Balkans), send gifts to my advisers (hey all dislike or even hate my character) or try and attack someone (but who?). Do I have my wife (the spy expert) set up a spy network in my home province or the capitol at Byzantium? I gave my wife a gift to "get her in the mood" and create an heir (which I chose as my ambition), but there is no command like "get busy humping, its the right time of month" . I also changed the policy of recruting in vassal states to lower animosity towards me from the nobles, the measure passed, but now I cant mess with laws for another 5 years.

Any ideas?

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

First of all, don't be afraid of time passing. The spacebar pauses the game, and you can issue orders while paused. I spend most of my first 5 or 6 hours in a Paradox game with it paused while I just poke around and learn the interface. Also, the game automatically pauses when one of those events pops up that requires a decision by the player.

Start off by setting one or two goals, and don't worry about anything else. 20 years goes by pretty quickly, and you probably won't accomplish a whole lot anyway. Want to learn the military game? Get your chancellor busy fabricating claims while you conquer your neighbors. Something else is to pick an ambition and just work towards that. In my first game as the Duke of Bohemia, I chose the "Holy" (I think that's what it's called) ambition, which gives you a goal of hitting a Piety of 500. I then spent the next 20 years sucking up to the Pope and reacting to events.

If you want to play a strict historical game, there is a new cool feature. Most of the characters have an "i" in the upper rt. corner. Clicking on that takes you to that character's Wiki page, so you can try to follow along if you like.

Most of all, don't worry about winning or losing. To paraphrase Tom Chick's description of VIcky 2 - Here's the 11th century. Have fun with it.

One more thing, regarding your wife producing an heir - it's a random event that depends on her fertility rating to fire. Of course, if she's just a frigid bitch, or worse, is too busy boinking your Spymaster to give you the time of day - well, there are ways to deal with that as well :ninja:
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

There is a bug in the demo that allows you to play any character. After selecting one of the four "allowed" and pressing play, you have to quickly select the area of the map you really want before the game starts to load.

It's a bit tricky, because if you're off by a pixel or two, you might find yourself playing a countess instead of a king. Also, you're still limited to 20 years with no saves.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Malacheye »

Thanks, tgb.

Another question...if you are a player stuck in the middle of another (your) Liege's empire (like the HRE or Byzantine) can you still use your chancellor to get a casus belli against other regions already under your liege's control? Or do you need to go beyond your liege's borders into another country and "stir the pot" there? Will your liege be brought into the conflict and hate you for it?

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

Malacheye wrote:Thanks, tgb.

Another question...if you are a player stuck in the middle of another (your) Liege's empire (like the HRE or Byzantine) can you still use your chancellor to get a casus belli against other regions already under your liege's control? Or do you need to go beyond your liege's borders into another country and "stir the pot" there? Will your liege be brought into the conflict and hate you for it?
It depends. There is a law that can only be changed by the kingdom ruler that gives vassals greater or lesser freedom. Only the most liberal setting allows you to attack another vassal, and if you are playing a duke or count you won't be able to change it (although your liege may ask your opinion). The best way to see if you can declare war on someone is to try it via the diplomacy menu. It it's grayed out a tooltip will tell you why (usually something like "under such and such law, vassals may not attack each other").

It took me several false starts and wasting my Chancellor before I found out I already has a CB in place against someone when the game began. I also found out the hard way that you can't declare war after your levies have been raised. You have to DOW someone first.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by dbemont »

Really good impression so far playing this demo.

Lots and lots of detail, with tons of directions to go, and lots of options are fun. But I do enjoy micromanagement.

Tutorials and in-game hints make this reasonably easy to understand.

Looks like a purchase to me.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Yojimbo »

I got a chance to play this some yesterday, I used the non-4 start trick to play as Count of Rama. He's unmarried and unknown (I always liked to play CK as a count and claw my way up).

I like it so far. I noticed that my court and vassals have ambitions of their own. I suspect there is a worthy sub-game to be had in helping my underlings meet their petty goals in order to build them up and increase my organization.

Paradox has an Amazon download link but, I worry that one might not get the free DLC from Amazon...

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Yojimbo »

I noticed CK2 in the Steam store today, with both DLC items so that is probably where I will be purchasing from: http://store.steampowered.com/app/203770/" target="_blank

I have not accomplished anything as Count Peter of Rama in the Demo yet. I get made Duke and occasionally steal a few provinces including Hum and Ragusa from the South.

I've noticed that it seems to be very hard to marry an alliance-giving spouse from any of your fellow vassals. It is, however, possible to betroth and marry your children into alliances. So I mostly marry a commoner with genius (or other good) attributes and bide my time. This, of course, is not really good in a 20 year limit. But it gives me a good feel for the game (probably what a Demo should do).

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Yojimbo »

UPDATE: I just looked at my own link closely and it says "Crusader Kings Complete - the original game to play right now!"

So, I am downloading now and I will report back after lunch, YMMV.

Update: Yes, of course I can play CK ONE today. But CK2 is a week out. Marketing will be the death of me.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

After playing 2, I don't think I could go back to the first one. Fortunately we have the manual to tide us over.

Gonna read this and go back to the demo so I can dive right in on the 14th.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Sepiche »

I played through the demo a bit over the weekend and I'm also enjoying it greatly. I was a little worried after playing Sengoku a bit and for some reason not liking it very well, but Crusader Kings II seems like it has a lot of interesting mechanics that Sengoku doesn't and I think the Medieval setting just works better for this type of game.

I was also doing a little reading on the Paradox forums, and apparently in addition to being able to play any character, you can mod the starting scenario to start long before 1066 and play as long as you want since the campaign is apparently only hard coded to stop in 1086, but is otherwise unlimited. Still no saving, but at least you can carry on a longer dynasty if you leave it running.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

I can barely get to 20 in a single session at the speed at which I play, so moddlng the date is no biggie for me.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Sarkus »

Sepiche wrote:I was also doing a little reading on the Paradox forums, and apparently in addition to being able to play any character, you can mod the starting scenario to start long before 1066 and play as long as you want since the campaign is apparently only hard coded to stop in 1086, but is otherwise unlimited. Still no saving, but at least you can carry on a longer dynasty if you leave it running.
There is a catch, though, and that is that the farther you go back the less information the game has about things. So most of the dynasties don't have names going back, actual kingdoms of earlier times are not fully modeled, etc. So you can start earlier but it will be a world of small one province tribal groupings and reportedly gets pretty boring pretty fast.

However, there is a mod out that simply changes the date while using the existing start settings. So you get the Europe of 1066 except that the date shows 666 to start and things progress from there. Still can't save, though, and since its taking me approximately 3-4 hours to play 20 years as it is, I can't imagine the value being all that great.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by El Guapo »

The standard campaign stops after 20 years? That seems odd for a game based around dynasties, doesn't it? Didn't CK1 go from 1066 until 1492?

Edit: on further thought, I'm guessing you guys are just talking about the demo?

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Sepiche »

El Guapo wrote:The standard campaign stops after 20 years? That seems odd for a game based around dynasties, doesn't it? Didn't CK1 go from 1066 until 1492?

Edit: on further thought, I'm guessing you guys are just talking about the demo?
Yeah, sorry, just the demo.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

The full game is about 400 years. Which means, that if you survive, a single game can be 60-80 hours. And that's one character out of hundreds.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by KW »

I never got into CK1, but I'm very impressed with this demo.

Only ran into two bugs -
1) my second son became my heir immediately after I threw him in jail... even though my first son had been my heir since his birth and had nothing bad happen to him.
2) my spymaster revealed a plot by my daughter-in-law to murder me... except for the amusing part where my spymaster was also backing the plot. Either that's a bug or he's the shittiest spymaster ever.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

KW wrote: 2) my spymaster revealed a plot by my daughter-in-law to murder me... except for the amusing part where my spymaster was also backing the plot. Either that's a bug or he's the shittiest spymaster ever.

Perhaps he was deep undercover? Other than that, I got nothing.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Chesspieceface »

How does this compare to Sengoku? (Paradox prior release, no?) I bought it but I found trying to play a little dizzying and convoluted. Maybe I need to go back to EU2 or something first.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Holman »

Chesspieceface wrote:How does this compare to Sengoku? (Paradox prior release, no?) I bought it but I found trying to play a little dizzying and convoluted. Maybe I need to go back to EU2 or something first.
I'm pretty sure Sengoku is the prequel (engine-wise) to Crusader Kings II. Many of the mechanics will be the same.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

Chesspieceface wrote:How does this compare to Sengoku? (Paradox prior release, no?) I bought it but I found trying to play a little dizzying and convoluted. Maybe I need to go back to EU2 or something first.


Sengoku is CK 2 lite, so if you found it "dizzying and convoluted", you might want to stay away. Not a slam against you, but the dynastic relationships and politics are a lot more complex here. Plus, the goal of Sengoku is a lot more focused. This is more of a sandbox, although it does give you the tools to recreate history, if that's what you want to do.

On the other hand, it has a much better tutorial, and is overall a lot more polished and a lot more fun. I restarted the demo probably half a dozen times as the King of Poland just to try different ways to deal with the same troublesome Duke, and they all produced different (and entertaining) results.

Both the manual, and a demo that lets you play any of four characters for 20 years (there are ways around that, but don't worry about that for now) are available. My suggestion is that you spend some time with both of those and see how it goes.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Sepiche »

Well, I ended up installing a script that rolled back all the campaign dates to start in 666 and that seems to have gotten around the time limits. I ended up playing about 100 years starting as the Irish Duchy of Munster and had a blast. It took me a few years, but my second ruler, who lived to the ripe old age of 78, managed to unite Ireland and declare himself king.

I really like the way claims work now, and it makes the strategic use of manufacturing claims a lot of fun. In particular if you hold at least half of the counties in a Duchy you can claim or usurp the Dukedom. Then once you have the Ducal title you can make a ducal claim on any counties that aren't your vassals already. As a result I was able to take over a lot of Ireland just by making a claim on one county, taking it over, and then using that to usurp the ducal title.

So in Ireland I was able to almost immediately take Desmond as it was in the Duchy of Munster, then after a few years I was able to get claim on the counties of Leinster and Dublin which, after a couple wars, gave me control of the Duchies of Leinster and Meath. That gave me control of over half of Ireland which let me take the title of King, then I was able to make vassals out of the rest of the independent counties in Ireland. Of course once I had Ireland under my control most of Northern Ireland slowly rebelled over the course of a few years, but that let me put some of my King's many sons on Ducal thrones throughout Ireland (he had many sons thanks mostly to a lusty little Byzantine Princess who had something in the neighborhood of +40% to fertility :) ).

Unfortunately, while the first king of Ireland was loved by all, his idiot grandson and heir was not so well liked. Worse yet his idiot grandson had become heir only after his father died under mysterious circumstances during a hunt. So when King Brian the First of Ireland died while leading a campaign to claim part of Wales for the Irish throne, his grandson finally came to power and nearly all his new vassals began to think of rising up. Thankfully they did so very piecemeal and, while the constant wars lasted for 10 years or so, the new King was able to use mercenaries to bolster his forces and eventually subjugate his unruly vassals.

The idiot grandson did finally go on be a rather good king, even if some of his vassals might disagree after spending some time in his dungeon contemplating their mistakes. :P I finally stopped playing when King Erin died and *his* idiot son took the throne which once again destabilized all of Ireland (and by that point Wales which had slowly been taken over by Erin the First.

And even worse... the thrice cursed Duke of Brittany somehow got a claim on one of my provinces in Ireland and launched a war to reclaim "his" land. I learned the hard way that apparently galley's can't fight, so he was able to land his sizable army on Irish soil and take control of that province. The sad truth is he was only a Duke and had fewer provinces that I, but they were wealthy and prosperous compared to my poor lands so the levies from his smallest province were larger than the levies I could field from my capital. I would have needed the support of 2 mercenary companies to fight him, but I just didn't have the money I needed at that point to succeed.

The rest of the map was pretty interesting to look at by the end as well... the reconquista went poorly in Spain with all the Spanish Kingdoms except for Aragon getting taken over the Caliphates. Aragon however had merged with rebel Aquitaine in France and had become a powerhouse unto itself. Where the Spanish has fallen the French and the Holy Roman Empire were fighting the Muslim's in Spain now with some success, but the HRE was beginning to fracture under it's own weight with many provinces rebelling during one of the transitions of power.

Byzantium was going rather well having held off the Turks and other Muslim factions and they had even fought well into modern Iraq and Syria before being slowed down by a change of power and the unrest that followed. Meanwhile farther north, Poland and Denmark merged for a short time under the King of Poland until Denmark fractured with rebellion (led by the Duchess of Skane and her husband, a dashing Irish Prince of my lineage).

Anyway, the game is great fun and is an improvement on CK I in almost every way. The first CK was fun in spite of it's interface and some of the more broken features, but CK II is a dream to play by comparison, and the stories that come out of it are at least as rich as the ones from CK I.

Can't wait until next week when I can give the full game a try.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

I spent 90% of the money I made on women, booze, and drugs. The other 10% I just pissed away.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Sepiche »

Chaz wrote:This is one of the few upcoming games I might actually pay close to full price for. Maybe. I want to create a family of inbreds until I wind up with Tyrion Lannister.

Actually, the possibilities for a Song of Ice and Fire mod are pretty awesome for this one.
I just noticed it looks like there's already a Ice and Fire mod on the way:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... hrones-mod" target="_blank

Sounds like they used some of the files from the CK 1 mod as a starting point and are planning to have an alpha release available pretty soon after CK 2 releases.

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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Mr Bismarck »

Sepiche wrote:Well, I ended up installing a script that rolled back all the campaign dates to start in 666 and that seems to have gotten around the time limits.
Why would you say that and not tell us where to find it. You evil (Irish) man/Duke.
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Sepiche »

Mr Bismarck wrote:
Sepiche wrote:Well, I ended up installing a script that rolled back all the campaign dates to start in 666 and that seems to have gotten around the time limits.
Why would you say that and not tell us where to find it. You evil (Irish) man/Duke.
hehe My vassals would probably agree with you. :P

It's a little involved and unless you want to change the files by hand it involves installing a scripting program, but here's the thread for anyone that wants to jump through the hoops:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... 50-Cheats-(In-Demo" target="_blank)/page2

Just look for posts by PreXident as he's the one that made the script.

Here's the basic steps, and there should be an explanation in the thread if you need further help.
1) Make a fresh install of the CK2 demo (This part is important even if you haven't changed anything)
2) Download this and extract it to your CK2 directory: http://www.mediafire.com/?212o1a2n8dywksd" target="_blank
3) Download and install the scripting program Gawk (google it and you can get it from SourceForge)
4) Edit 400.bat in your CK2 directory
5) Look for this line in 400.bat:
FOR /F "delims=:" %%i IN (textfiles.txt) DO awk -f awkskript.txt <".\backup\%%i" >"%%i"
6) Change that line into this:
FOR /F "delims=:" %%i IN (textfiles.txt) DO c:\[gawkdirectory]\bin\awk.exe -f awkskript.txt <".\backup\%%i" >"%%i"

Where c:\[gawkdirectory]\is path to gawk on your computer. Best to install it in a simple folder name in the root directory to make things easier.

I should note that research will go really slowly unless you also adjust the research level dates in the file defines.lua. Not sure where that is exactly in the CK2 folder, but it's pretty easy to change if you want to. I didn't run into any problems leaving research alone though... it just goes slowly. As I mentioned above there's also no saving, so if you want a really long game you'll have to do what I did and leave it open and paused overnight. :P

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tgb
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

For what it's worth, there's a "Guide for Newbies" thread at the Paradox forum, and this is what I posted:



These are the things I do at the start of every game before even unpausing. For the most part you can do these in any order, except for assigning jobs to your council.

1) Examine your dynasty. Am you married, do you have children and is your child your heir? If not, can you change the succession laws and do you want to? If you are unmarried and/or childless, that makes picking your initial ambition easy.

2) Examine your realm. Who are your direct vassals and how do they feel about you? If someone dislikes you (the number will be red), use the tool tip to find out why. Does that vassal have a claim to part of your demesne? Is it a personality thing? Is he/she just an asshole? Decide how you are going to deal with the situation - do nothing, strip the vassal of his/her title, or throw him/her in the dungeon. In that case, prepare for war, using your Martial to train troops, your Steward to oversee building while you build up your troop-producing holdings. Or you might want to play nice and throw the vassal a gift or an honorary title, and send your Chancellor in to smooth things over.

3) Examine the map of both your domain and your neighbors. Are there any revolt risks (although you should have determined that in the above step)? Make use of the de jure filters to see if you have a claim to anybody else's land, or if they have a claim to yours. Don't forget the religion map. You have an automatic Holy War CB against any of your neighbors of a different religion. If you are playing a Duke or Count, and covet one of your neighbor's provinces, make sure you can even declare war against him before wasting your Chancellor (not to mention money and prestige) on a fabricated claim. Only the most liberal Crown Authority law allows vassals under the same liege to go to war against each other.

4) Examine your Council and see if you can replace anyone with someone better (although, based on the demo, the default starting Council tends to be just fine).

5) Check the Laws. Do you want to make a change to Crown Authority or the levy and tax laws. Most importantly, make a decision on what your relationship with the Church will be. If you plan to be neutral or hostile, you can go with Royal Investiture and higher taxes on the Church. If you are going to make nice, you can eliminate Church taxation entirely and let the Pope select the Bishops. If you ARE going to tax the Church, make sure you go to your Religion tab and see if any of the Bishops like the Pope better than they like you. If they do, they are sending money to Rome every month that should be going into your coffers. Time to send your religious councellor (forget what he's called - sorry) in to have a chat.

6) I have no advice on tech, since it's meaningless in the span of 20 years that the demo covers.

7) Go to the intrigue screen. If you haven't already picked an ambition to have a spouse or child yet, see if an ambition or plot grabs your attention. If not, take something generic like amassing wealth or piety. Look over the decisions, and think about calling for a Royal Hunt or a Festival. The Hunt sets of an event chain that seems to affect your relationship with Vassals, and the Fesitval seems to do the same for you relationship with the Church.

8) Make sure all of your Councelors are busy doing something. If you can't find anything important for them to do at the moment, set them to research. There's a reason the outliner warns you when a Councelor is idle.

At this point you should be ready to hit the space bar and start playing the game. I'm far from an expert, and I'm sure there are other things that I haven't caught on to yet that you could be doing, but this works for me.
I spent 90% of the money I made on women, booze, and drugs. The other 10% I just pissed away.

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Unagi
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Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by Unagi »

Am you married
I are! :D

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tgb
Posts: 30690
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:33 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Crusader Kings II

Post by tgb »

Unagi wrote:
Am you married
I are! :D
Well, it is Black History Month

(I keed).
I spent 90% of the money I made on women, booze, and drugs. The other 10% I just pissed away.

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