Octopus Overlords

Wasteland 2 Kickstarter page

After seeing the ridiculous cash pulled in by Double Fine, now Brian Fargo wants in:

Wasteland, whatever its called, will be "100% faithful to its roots." This means a Wasteland game that "would be focusing on top-down, probably isometric, party based, skill based -- where if you'd just finished playing Wasteland and moved onto this you'd feel comfortable."

I still have my giant C64 game folder and floppy disc. In summary, shut up and take my money.

Fargo has only been working on the project for a mere 48 hours, and he and the rest of inXile are currently working on a production schedule to see if its feasible. But he does think that it'd take at least a million dollars, and hopes that the Kickstarter will go live in the next month.

EDIT: I should probably put the link to the site at the top of this thread

Yes please.

oh hell yes.

I never did actually play the original, but I've always liked the box art.

I see a big EA at the bottom of that box. Fargo might as well start a Kickstarter for his LDF as well.

According to the Internets:

In 2003, InXile (founded by Wasteland's producer, Brian Fargo) acquired the rights to Wasteland from EA

I am curious as to why people are excited about this. Fargo hasn't been behind anything worthwhile in about a billion computer years. Also, he's been one of the wackier "guys who were once a noteworthy developer" guys out there if memory serves (behind Garriot and Molyneaux, of course).

He says he wants this to be 100% like wasteland, but I'll believe that when I see it.

I wouldn't mind another game like Wasteland at all, mind.

I'm excited because I think it's a perfect way to release a Wasteland-themed software title. And yes, you're right - he's definitely part of the "glory days" old guard....but it could be a chance for him (and team) to develop something they want to do rather than feel the constraints of a AAA publisher pulling the strings. Succeed or fail, they'd have no one to blame but themselves for issues associated with the design, story writing an implementation.

This whole crowd-sourced software gaming thing is definitely an experiment. And personally I'm more likely to financially back a re-creation of an old favorite than a completely new game (everything else being equal).

Well, there's already a perfect way to release a Wasteland-themed software title. It's called "build it yourself and release it on Steam/through your own webstore".

Crowdsourced funding is a really interesting way to get something like this jump started, granted. But it is not a pre-requisite for something like this. And keep this in mind: Vogel's latest releases are, content and complexity wise, way beyond what Wasteland is. And he gets them done in a year and for a lot less than a million bucks. Granted, if he had to do the Avadon engine from scratch he'd probably be looking at 20-24 months of dev time.

Still the point is, there's no barrier for doing this sort of thing. It's true you were never going to secure big publisher funding to do a game like Wasteland. But you shouldn't ever have been trying to secure big publisher funding to do a game like Wasteland. Possibly excepting if your name is Firaxis (I don't think anyone else would have the combination of will and ability to pull something like this off).

Smoove_B wrote:ware gaming thing is definitely an experiment.

This is dead wrong I think. I believe we're past the point where this can be viewed as anything but viable, even though there are only a handful of ~1M projects on Kickstarter. There are a lot of complications with this as a funding model, and Kickstater has it's share of issues. But this isn't a flash in the pan. It isn't like there were a bunch of ambitious projects on Kickstarter that have failed (as near as I can tell).

As for Fargo, I'm not being clear enough. I don't think Fargo rates as one of the glory days guys. A lot of his credits are "producer" or "weird" (e.g. level designer on a BT port. Uh, ok?). I don't think he has anywhere close to Schafer's (or a lot of other guy's) cachet. I hope he succeeds in this, but he hasn't exactly given me a reason to believe he'll put out a good product even if they do raise a bunch of money, and even if he follows the Wasteland blueprint to a T (something he should not do precisely; the interface should be much improved).

Until we have some viable, financial successes, I think you have to call it experimental still. It has been made clear that funding can be raised this way. I think we need to see products good enough to recoup that funding plus more (of course) to get really excited about this approach.

If you had asked me before these projects started showing up with a million plus in funding, I would have hedged my comments, but at least be hopeful. Now I'm very interested to see what designers can produce when they don't have detached bean counting execs making arbitrary decisions based on projections made for the company as a whole, rather than a project by project approach.

When your sole product is one game, you live or die by that game. That's a helluva incentive to make a good game.

Top down isometric view is my FAVORITE type since I first started gaming. All my old favorites were in this view style. I'd donate for a Wasteland sequel like that.

GreenGoo wrote:I think we need to see products good enough to recoup that funding plus more (of course) to get really excited about this approach.

What is there to recoup? Double Fine has already sold 56,000 copies of a game they have yet to make. They estimated it would take them $400k to make it, and now they have $2M. All they have to do is not spend more than $2M making it.

Smoove_B wrote:According to the Internets:

In 2003, InXile (founded by Wasteland's producer, Brian Fargo) acquired the rights to Wasteland from EA

Who the hell is Internets?

wonderpug wrote:

GreenGoo wrote:I think we need to see products good enough to recoup that funding plus more (of course) to get really excited about this approach.

What is there to recoup? Double Fine has already sold 56,000 copies of a game they have yet to make. They estimated it would take them $400k to make it, and now they have $2M. All they have to do is not spend more than $2M making it.

Exactly. Call me when they've done that.

Call me again when another 2 or 3 happen so we know the first wasn't a fluke.

We've seen this model before, although in smaller scale. That didn't work out too well for those who bought the non-existent product ahead of time. I'm not at all critical of this method of funding. In fact I like it a lot and hope it does take off. That doesn't mean I'm sure it's going to be a successful new venue for fund raising. All I'm saying is we'll see. That seems a prudent position to hold, without being completely cynical about it.

SlapBone wrote:

Smoove_B wrote:According to the Internets:

In 2003, InXile (founded by Wasteland's producer, Brian Fargo) acquired the rights to Wasteland from EA

Who the hell is Internets?

I am.

Archinerd wrote:I never did actually play the original, but I've always liked the box art.

You should see the inside cover, too, if you haven't already.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/wasteland/cover-art" target="_blank

I'd throw in $50 for the Kickstarter, as that's how much the first Wasteland cost when I got it way back when. But if Faran raises a million dollars, he'd better throw in a Paragraphs book.

Nice, I hadn't seen it before. The "band photo" of all the nerds in their post-apocalyptic western gear is pretty sweet too.

Awesome news. I hope it is true to its roots.
Now if someone can get a Kickstarter going for a Mail Order Monsters reboot...

I'm excited about this. I love the PA genre and it will be fun to play an isometric game as in Fallout 1/2 again.

Here is some Brian Fargo Twitter on the subject:

Taxonomic

@BrianFargo as a fan of wasteland, and someone disappointed with the lack of turn based crpgs, I'd like to see a proper #wasteland2.

Brian Fargo

@Taxonomic Here here... Nothing beats the tactics of a good ole turn based party game.

It's been a blast to only work on Wasteland this weekend. Writing docs, doing research, talking to writers, listening to music.

It looks like a few of you have figured out one of the tier awards. The $50 tier gets full box, docs and maps the way games used to be.

wonderpug wrote: All they have to do is not spend more than $2M making it.

This is the rub entirely. I hold projects on scope and budget for a living (not computer games). It's awfully hard to do this in the real world.

However, the traditional method of game development is so badly broken in most cases that a new funding model can't really hurt.

I guess I was thinking that since the achieved funding is so, so beyond what they estimated the project would cost that it would be really easy to stay within budget, but I can see how natural it would be to shoot to spend the whole $2M and then end up going over.

Someone interesting has joined the team per a Fargo tweet:

More good #Wasteland news! The original producer, programmer and designer Alan Pavlish has also joined the team.

NMA interview here:

http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=60856" target="_blank

It's been years since the old Wasteland so no one is expecting a carbon copy. What would you say are elements in design or setting from the original that absolutely must make it back in, and what elements would you say are most likely to change?

Party and turn based combat is an absolute critical requirement for me. I like finding the right mix of Desert Rangers combined with NPC's and I enjoy the tactics that come from that dynamic. Players will spend more time doing combat than most anything in an RPG so it needs to be deep and rewarding. The skill based system is another must have to me as it opens up the world to be explored in ways that the player wants to do. You can have someone picklock the door, use demolitions on it, sneak over the back wall or try and let a rocket loose to blow the door off. A good RPG always offers many options for the player to move forward and with some of their choices may open or close off entire areas. I think the 3rd element is the way NPC's had a mind of their own within combat or game mechanics. The best storytelling often comes from the moments that happen from within the system. Almost everyone remembers when Angela Deth would empty an entire Uzi clip into a rat and completely waste hard earned ammo.

Things that will have big changes will be the use of audio and how you communicate and receive missions from the Desert Rangers HQ. I won't go into detail yet but we have some innovative ideas that will make that whole aspect of the game become more entertaining and meaningful. We also plan to dial up the things that NPC's can do or cause affect the party. We will have some NPC's that you will love in combat but be looking forward to snuffing out once you get the chance. We will also have a more cohesive story thanks to all the efforts that Jason and Mike have already put in. We have learned a lot more about storytelling than we did back in the day.

And now there's a website.

One of my favorite old-school games. Loved it on my old Apple IIGS. Good times.

I'd never heard of the game; apparently the original was released in 1988 and at the time I was likely throwing rocks at plastic army men and liking it (classic real time play with turn-based elements).

However it sounds interesting and while the name/game/designers/etc have zero nostalgia or prestige value for me, I'm liking what I read about Wasteland Chronicles. I wish them well. The street is watching.

After his Bard's Tale redux I have no faith he'll be able to succeed with a new Wasteland.

If it comes with a paragraph book, I'll be the first in line to be irradiated. :p

And the Kickstarter campaign has started. They're looking to raise $900,000 over the next 34 days.

Have at it.

To do this game right, we need to raise $1 million, but you'll notice our funding request is $900,000 and that is because Brian Fargo has offered to fund the last $100,000 if need be. That’s a lot of money needed, but not when compared with the budgets of most full scale RPGs made today. The original game sold over 100,000 copies—on the Apple ][ and Commodore 64 platforms back in the day. If everyone who played it then backs the project at the most basic level, the game is on.

But we’re looking ahead to what we can do if you all back this project in force. At $1.25 million, the money will go primarily into making the world bigger, adding more maps, more divergent stories and even more music.

At $1.5 million, the world gets even bigger. You’ll have more adventures to play, more challenges to deal with, and a greater level of complexity to the entire storyline. We’ll add more environments, story elements, and characters to make the rich world come alive even more. We will even be able to bring Wasteland 2 to OS X for Mac lovers. And after $1.5 million the sky is the limit.

Inverarity wrote:After his Bard's Tale redux I have no faith he'll be able to succeed with a new Wasteland.

I like to think he learned from that? Although I have no idea what his current thoughts are on that project...he may think it was great!

I'm in. Just pledged!

They had me at "soundtrack by Mark Morgan".

Wow, when I pledged they were at $65k, now it's at $185k. Nice . . . though still a ways to go.

Did you see the estimated delivery date? 10/2013! That's a long lead for a kickstarter.

coopasonic wrote:Did you see the estimated delivery date? 10/2013! That's a long lead for a kickstarter.

Uh, have you seen the amount of money they are trying to raise? It's a lot more than the typical Kickstarter too. This is a big game. That's 1 1/2 years away. I'd be worried if they promised something in just a year or less, wouldn't you?

In.

coopasonic wrote:Did you see the estimated delivery date? 10/2013! That's a long lead for a kickstarter.

The project description describes how the time will be spent. 6 months will be spent on pre-production, clearly establishing what they're going to make and how, among other things through dialogue with fans. The 12 months after that will be spent on actual production. I actually think it sounds too short.

coopasonic wrote:Did you see the estimated delivery date? 10/2013! That's a long lead for a kickstarter.

From a totally different, unrelated project that has no bearing on this thread:

"This project has really grown into something much larger than we were expecting, which is-scientifically speaking-awesome. Many of you have been asking if this means we’ll be taking a bit more time with the production, and the answer is yes. This is not a cute, quick little game anymore. This is the real deal. This is a capital-G Game. This means that some rewards might show up a bit later than originally intended but fear not, it’s all to make sure we provide you with something that is worthy of the love bomb you detonated over Double Fine. Kaaaaa-blooooxoxoxxoxoxoxoxoxo!

That’s the sound a love bomb makes."

That reads eerily similar to the messages I have been getting from my other "backed" game from Double Fine Adventure.

There is probably a Kickstarter bot that writes copy...and there are no companies involved...just one money sucking machine behind the Kickstarter curtain, drawing in suckers/gamers with its siren call of "adventure" and "turn based" glory days gaming.

No no, it's just me getting my threads mixed up. That message was from Double Fine.