How about a new Baldur's Gate game?...possibly.....

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:08 pm

Gonna try bard. Now comes the hard part - finding art and making a character.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:41 pm

Finally found a female bard with pants on. That took a while.

Know what else is going to take a while?

Spoiler:

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:21 am

I think you forgot...

Spoiler:

And I'll second that Jan is awesome.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:27 am

Yeah, I've heard that so many times that he's a big part of my decision to go with a bard instead of a thief.

Cleared Candlekeep and the first two areas afterward last night.

FYI, for those that remember the old G3 tweaks packs and ease-of-use mods that added things like arrows stacking to above 20, fixed animations, that sort of thing, the new version is the G3 Tweaks Anthology. It's an all-in-one installer for all three of the Infinity Engine series, including the originals, TUTU, trilogy, and the Enhanced Editions. And as always, you can read about and select each component individually to just install the convenience stuff and fixes you want while skipping the rebalancers and 'cheats' if you don't want them.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:55 am

You should consider rerolling. That Wisdom is a little on the low side.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:50 pm

I know!

Actually, I didn't reroll that much. They seem to be using the 2nd edition 'roll 4d6, take the highest 3' rule, then just add six sets of those together. It puts an average roll in the 80s. I rolled a couple of minutes until I got a 94, then stopped. It isn't bad, but is well below the highest I could have gone if I'd stuck with it.

Of course, it would be absurdly high for the pen-and-paper 2nd edition, but in a game that is 90% combat, taking a character class designed for non-combat utility? I'm ok with it.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:42 pm

I'm rolling along. I'm still headaching about my party. I'm trying to take some different people just for the different experience. Imoen and Minsc are locks, because of the story connections of the prior and the awesomeness of the latter. It's the other three I keep going back and forth on. Right now I'm running with Ajantis (paladin), who I always ignored before. I've got Neera (wild mage) for now, one of the EE added characters. I don't like the unpredictability of the wild mage, but she's interesting, isn't annoying, is new, and has the advantage that I can take her through all three games (including Siege of Dragonspear.) The last slot needs to have some healing utility. My only real options are Branwen and Jaheira. I've got Jaheira right now, but I had her in both games the first time I played through. The only other real healer is a dwarf, but he isn't available until much later. There is also Viconia, and I'd really like to try her out but her alignment would result in Ajantis leaving, and there is no option to change it until BGII.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:27 pm

You can always ditch Ajantis, he's not going to be around for the second game anyway. If you need another heavy, apparently there are at least three options: Kagain, Yeslick and Shar-Teel. Also, Dorn (just looked it up on the wiki). I uh, have never used any of them.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:43 pm

NickAragua wrote: ↑Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:27 pm You can always ditch Ajantis, he's not going to be around for the second game anyway. If you need another heavy, apparently there are at least three options: Kagain, Yeslick and Shar-Teel. Also, Dorn (just looked it up on the wiki). I uh, have never used any of them.

In order: Evil, the dwarf I mentioned isn't available until late, evil, evil.

Actually, now that I look at it, a lot of the heavies are evil!

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:21 am

Hm. Jaheira and Khalid kind of have to go together (no, literally, if you kick one out, the other leaves), so I guess you're stuck with Branwen. I don't recall her being too bad, and she's pretty easy to acquire. Well, as long as you've got a certain specific kind of scroll on you.

dobberhd · Post by **dobberhd** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:11 am

If I remember correctly, you can keep Jaheira by having Khalid die. Since this is a role-playing game, maybe not an option.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:42 am

dobberhd wrote: ↑Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:11 am If I remember correctly, you can keep Jaheira by having Khalid die. Since this is a role-playing game, maybe not an option.

If he were to romance Jaheria in BG2 he could “role play” a David like character.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:02 am

You can separate pairs (Jaheira/Khalid, Minsc/Dynahier) by sending the one you don't want alone into a building, then reforming the party outside. Jaheira is with me. Khalid is demonstrating 'better part of valor!' in a building in Beregost. Dynahier will end up next door.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:12 am

TheMix wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:21 am I think you forgot...

Spoiler:
Reroll.

And I'll second that Jan is awesome.

He's not in BG1 though, right?

Though I would say that Jan Jansen is incredibly amusing, although he's not (IIRC) the most powerful NPC. Though he did manage to backstab a giant to death when I was playing the BG2 expansion, which I found to be physically and logistically impressive.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:16 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:12 am
TheMix wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:21 am I think you forgot...

Spoiler:
Reroll.

And I'll second that Jan is awesome.
He's not in BG1 though, right?

Though I would say that Jan Jansen is incredibly amusing, although he's not (IIRC) the most powerful NPC. Though he did manage to backstab a giant to death when I was playing the BG2 expansion, which I found to be physically and logistically impressive.

I am picturing something like the first Dragon Age Origins Ogre fight. I seem to be remembering a character climbing up his back and stabbing.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:27 pm

D&D gnome vs giant would be more like Shadow of the Colossus (~3' vs ~20', depending on the giant.)

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:55 pm

And I'm stuck. For some reason the second Cloakwood area (the nest) won't appear. I can't proceed. Hopefully Beamdog support will resolve it, or my 'whole trilogy' run stops here.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:38 am

Good news and bad news:

The good news: The area not appearing was a problem with my save file. I contacted Beamdog, emailed them my save, and they 'fixed' it within a few hours. Great support.

The bad news: Branwen is dead. Very dead. As in 'I picked up Yeslick, and forgot to remove her from the Cloakwood mine before...

Spoiler:

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:47 pm

I'm nearing the end. I'm on the last chapter of the main story, and am working my way through the expansion content now. I have Siege of Dragonspear and BG2 EE.
I'm glad I played, but I'm honestly not sure I am going to continue after I finish BG1EE.

The storytelling, locations, characters - all of it is great. The things that I don't enjoy, though, are starting to spoil it.

~Inventory management is still a pain in the ass.
~They stuck too closely to the 2e rules as written for tabletop instead of adapting them for a video game. This leads to things like the check for traps only occurring every six seconds, and you can't check for traps while sneaking. That means that A) you can't scout ahead (you'll set off every trap), and B) checking for traps involves moving ten feet, waiting six seconds, moving ten feet, waiting six seconds - through every hallway in every level of every dungeon.
~I'd forgotten how annoying all of the status effects could be. Every significant combat involves the same routine: Discover enemy, get attacked, die horribly when half of the party is Confused in the first four seconds, reload, buff like crazy, save, throw in a sacrificial lamb and hope he can absorb all of the confusion spells before he dies, charge!, rest for 16 hours, do it again. I get that drains, curses, confusions, holds, and such exist in 2nd Edition AD&D. No decent Dungeon Master is going to annoy the party with them every three rooms.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:24 pm

Since I'm revisiting this after a decade and a half, I was thinking of resurrecting this thread, but Blackhawk has it covered.

Not to horn in on Blackhawk's racket, but I'll drop the occasional note of how my game is going here as well.

For 20 years, I've managed to avoid the BG1 spoiler. Well, I mostly can guess based on coming across infinite BG discussions, but I don't know the details. The story is a complete mystery to me, except that I'm a good guesser. I look forward to being wrong about things, hopefully a lot of things.

I don't remember how far I made it in my first and only time I tried to play it, but I suspect when I hit that point I'll notice. Right now I'm in Beregost about to do the quests there, so not very far along at all. My party in order of joining consists of me, Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Neera and Garrick. Obviously with so little of the game explored so far, my choices are limited. I only just reached the 6 character max. I have no real intention of power gaming the companions either, so my decisions will probably be based on anything from their spell book to their portrait to their voice set to their role in the story being played out. I have no intention of balancing my rep, so the game will almost certainly exclude some people from joining me.

I'm doing exactly zero power gaming, which isn't my M.O. Here's my dwarven Fighter/Cleric.

I installed a huge pile of portraits but ended up with a portrait included with the base game. I tried really hard to find a decent dwarven voice set, but ended up just installing the BG2 sets and using one of them. Not really satisfactory, but I'm not looking into it any further.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:39 pm

And 60 seconds after posting, Kagain wants to join the party. There doesn't appear to be a way to know what the hell his class(es) are beforehand which would help me decide who to drop, if anyone, so now I have to ask the internet. edit: Lawful Evil Dwarf Fighter. Hmmm.

I'm also going to ask the internet what the advantages/disadvantages of having him in the party are, mostly around Quests that open up/close off, less about power gaming with him. edit: And...the internet says his quest "line", such as it is, is broken. Skipping.

I should also learn about what the ramifications are for kicking people from the party. Ideally, I'd like the option to change up the party without worrying about whether I can get them back or not later.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:44 pm

I dont recall how you get them back.

I also am almost certain that even when new I had to look online for what a persons class and alignment was before having them join. Or maybe its in the paper manual.

I think even today of all the Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate stuff that the first BG is my favorite. Even if it did take a 3rd stab at it for it to stick. And that was AFTER I played Icewind Dale. After just how cool the main bad guy is and how the voice actor did his job I just could not enjoy anything else quiet as much.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:08 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:39 pm And 60 seconds after posting, Kagain wants to join the party. There doesn't appear to be a way to know what the hell his class(es) are beforehand which would help me decide who to drop, if anyone, so now I have to ask the internet. edit: Lawful Evil Dwarf Fighter. Hmmm.

I'm also going to ask the internet what the advantages/disadvantages of having him in the party are, mostly around Quests that open up/close off, less about power gaming with him. edit: And...the internet says his quest "line", such as it is, is broken. Skipping.

I should also learn about what the ramifications are for kicking people from the party. Ideally, I'd like the option to change up the party without worrying about whether I can get them back or not later.

I don't think they care too much in BG1. In BG2, the "romantic interests" might fizzle out if you boot them, but you don't have to worry about that in BG1 (absent mods). I forget how to get them back, but they either a) stay where you dropped them or b) go back to where you found them. I honestly forget which. Sorry.

BTW, kudos re: fighter/cleric. That's my favorite power combo. You get the weapon specialization of the fighter (2.5 attacks per round) and the amazing spellcasting of a cleric. Don't get me wrong, mages are great, but a cleric can really fire it up when necessary. Especially when you get to BG2 and get access to fifth level summoning spells.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:56 pm

I have a lot of admiration for the BG games. Hell, I bought a new PC to play BG 1 when it came out. But the inventory system and the AD&D rules just killed me. AD&D is a turn based system. It just doesn't work well (for me) in pausable real time. I also never liked the spell memorization system.

Years later I gave BG2 a real (re)try and got pretty far into Act 2 - but I just ran out of gas. There is a great game there, but the rules and some of the other game systems just kill it for me. Hell even a town portal spell might have kept me going. I could handle it better in NWN/NWN 2 when it was a smaller party and not so punishing. But, as much as part of me wants to, I know I will never finish either BG1 or BG2. I would love a mod or something that put the content of those games into a game with different rules/systems.

Anyway, not trying to rain on the parade of those enjoying playing it, just responding to the other criticisms of the system.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:57 pm

The dwarven cleric has a bit of a special place in my heart due to nostalgia. I'm not 100% sure why I made this one a fighter/cleric. There's a reason, but I'll be damned if I can think of it. I do know that it wasn't a typical combination when I was heavily into D&D, so that might be part of it. Path less traveled etc. I've done some reading and it sounds like BG might be a great experience as your stereotypical fighter/mage/thief. If I hadn't started already I might have even considered it. But man...everyone when I was a kid was all about fighter/mage or fighter/mage/thief. I tend to avoid stereotypical though. Tend to.

I crit with a 1d4+1 warhammer for 22 points of damage with him recently. I can't even remember how crits work in 2nd edition (outside of the natural 20 mechanic) so I'm not sure how 1d4+1 gets to 22, even with 18/65 strength, but it sure was fun to watch.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:04 pm

JCC wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:56 pm I have a lot of admiration for the BG games. Hell, I bought a new PC to play BG 1 when it came out. But the inventory system and the AD&D rules just killed me. AD&D is a turn based system. It just doesn't work well (for me) in pausable real time. I also never liked the spell memorization system.

One of the significant positives of playing BG1 now is how much it feels like you're playing 2nd edition D&D. It's CLEARLY D&D computerized as much as possible. Even the tone and nature of the quests is very old school. Like, shadows of the 70's and 80's old school. Today, D&D, roleplaying and story telling have evolved so far that they are barely related to the hamfisted, convoluted gaming sessions and rules sets from the 80's. And that's good. That's AWESOME. D&D today is amazing compared to the 80's. Quests in BG1 are found in taverns, through mysterious strangers (or not so mysterious). I mean, talk about hackneyed and cliched. And I love it!

But I did my obsessing over D&D in the 80's (and to a lesser extent early 90's), and that's the D&D that speaks to me. If not for the nostalgia I'd be better served playing any of a number of modern games. Pillars of Eternity sits in my Steam queue, untouched as of yet.

There is almost literally no criticism, no matter how warranted, that would put me off playing BG1 right now.

I'm playing BG because when I do I'm reliving my childhood obsession. That obsession brought me a LOT of joy, and it's fun and warm and fuzzy to revisit.

JCC · Post by **JCC** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:12 pm

I totally get that if you like the AD&D rules, system, etc. that you would enjoy them. I have just never liked them and thought they particularly failed in real time - especially when BG1/2 came out. Since then as I said I was able to get through NWN1 and 2 with them. I also enjoyed one of the old SSL D&D PC games - I think it was Champions of Krynn - which was turn based. I actually like the D&D universe and read some of the Drizzt/Dragonlance books. But BLECH on the rules. LOL

I would just love a modern remake with differnt rules.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:22 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:39 pm I should also learn about what the ramifications are for kicking people from the party. Ideally, I'd like the option to change up the party without worrying about whether I can get them back or not later.

It depends on the character. Most will stay right where you left them. A couple will go to the Friendly Arm. A couple (I believe) will take off. There are also some pairs. You have to have both. If you kick one out, their companion will insist on having them back or will go with them. It's kind of annoying, as there are a few characters that are great but are tied to someone poor ("Better part of valor!") There is a solution to this (mechanics in the spoiler bit in case you don't want to see it, but no actual spoilers):

Spoiler:

A couple of quick tips:
~You can store anything in any container. It won't despawn. Just don't leave it on the ground. I combine this with the spoilered tip and pick a spot in Beregost with a few empty buildings and a bunch of barrels that I can use as permanent storage.
~Take Minsc with you. He's a character you must experience.
~Hard save in a new slot often.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:18 pm

I still remember clearly. I bought Baldurs Gate and tried it and it just didn't grab me. I tried it twice and both times stopped before or at the mines. I put it away. But then in 2000 Icewind Dale came out. I had read up on it and was looking forward to it .I was at the store when it arrived. I was so early in the morn I had to wait for them to unbox it. I loved it! I sat and rerolled until I got 18/00 STR and such. After I finished it I started buying the RA Salvatore books and reading them all starting with The Icewind Dale Trilogy. Have no idea what grabbed me. I then went back to BG1 and loved it too. 3rd time I played through it al land was even more hooked. Great story and all.

One thing that helped...and not a spoiler since its not a story thing.....is I read to use ranged weps on everyone early on. I thought it was crazy but gave everyone even my fighter a crappy bows. LOL stuff just died. Got me through the mines and that early part. I could have stayed with it longer but it was too easy. And after IWD I was good at fighting.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:28 pm

The real time nature of the game really drives home the concept and implementation of casting range and time more than I've ever experienced before. Watching your caster move into touch range before starting the less than instant cure light wounds on a front line character is both awesome and terrible to experience, knowing that every second before the cure light wounds fires could be your character's last (my party is predominately still lvl 1, with a couple of lvl 2's thrown in there. I.e. not a lot of hp).

I seem to have run into some random encounters of wolves, worgs, dread wolves and vampiric wolves. Remember that my party is basically level 1? Yeah, not been fun.

I've tried pulling just or 2 at a time but I only have 2 magic weapons in the party, and one is a quarterstaff that isn't of much use, and no one does enough spell damage to actually kill a vampiric wolf. I've fought, healed, returned to the inn, healed, returned to the wilderness, fought and repeated the whole thing. Jaheira is getting annoyed that we haven't made our way to Naskel yet. I guess I'm going to have to return to the Beregost area to finish the quests I picked up there at a later time? That's fine, but I'd like to at least do *some* of them before leaving.

I do have a wand of lightning bolts and it seems to do a pretty good job, although the one time I used it it fried my front line tank as well so I had to reload. Instead of trying to figure out how to make it work regarding positioning and cast times I just put it away for a different rainy day. One that doesn't burn through my most valued items on meaningless random encounters.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:46 pm

Making my way down to Nashkel. Trying to avoid being methodical about the map exploration, but it's difficult as my OCD (which I don't actually have) is telling me there is a small bit of fog of war in the upper righthand corner I should explore.

Still, doing my best not to meta anything. I do tend to look up NPCs/New Companions to make sure I can't screw anything up permanently, but I don't read up on their quests or stats or anything. I pretty much pick and choose based on my opinion from my in game interactions. It's actually going to be tough to kick people out of the party. It feels disloyal. Still haven't level'd my character yet, although I'm getting close. Hobgoblins and gibberlings are not vast quantities of experience.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:33 pm

NPC paralysis.

Too many options, and I even missed the evil pair just east of Candlekeep after Gorion gets smoked.

Neera is an EE addition who is in my party. There is a monk in Nashkel that is an EE addition too. I haven't taken him. Yet. Probably won't, as 2nd edition monks don't get decent until higher level, and BG is sort of a low level game.

Minsc is sitting there, but since I'm not ready to even touch the mines yet, and Minsc has a timer (apparently) I'll be leaving him alone for now.

I have a bard. Bards were uniformly terrible, if I recall 2nd edition correctly. I should probably kick him. Right now my fighter/cleric tanks in melee and everyone else pours on the ranged/spells. It works fine so far although Niera (5th level evil cleric assassin) was a tough fight since she spams hold person for the first couple of rounds. With splint (no platemail yet) and a 19 con, he's pretty hardy even at low levels.

I'm somewhat open to booting Khalid and Jaheira, which surprises me. They are friends of Gorion and I'm sorta partial to story based NPCs. I won't be booting Imoen any time soon, for example. Still though, those 2 can probably be dumped without a problem once I finish Nashkel mines (which isn't soon).

Paralysis. Ugh.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:01 pm

For amusement, Neera cast sleep on Niera and instead summoned a demon that ate everyone in the bar, me included. So...that was a reload.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:50 pm

Nobody is a 'story NPC' past their introduction in BG1. In BG2 it is different.

Minsc does have a timer, but it has nothing to do with the mines.

Spoiler:

I ran a bard myself, plus I took Neera (for the magic), Minsc (for the front line whacking), Ajantis (to take the blows), Yeslick (late) and Branwen (early) for the healing and buffing), and Imoen (for the sneaking, and because of her ties to the story later.) I took Neera over any alternatives partially because she's available in the later games as well, and I want a few 'anchor' characters that will see me through.

I finished the game a couple of days ago, by the way. I skipped much of Durlag's. I'll likely continue through the series, but I need a break first.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:12 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:50 pm Nobody is a 'story NPC' past their introduction in BG1. In BG2 it is different.

Minsc does have a timer, but it has nothing to do with the mines.
Spoiler:
You have to rescue Jaheira, in the fortress to the west.

Right. My point is that I'm not ready to do the mines, let alone go after his witchy woman, Dynaheir.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:34 pm

I'm frustrated for a couple of reasons. Far too much save scumming is involved, even when I'm pursuing level appropriate quests. Worse, I am no longer a fan of exploring every corner of every map, yet my early gaming experiences and OCD won't let me not do it. Combine that with save scumming and I find I am quick saving every 5 seconds so I don't have to re-reveal all that fog of war I just did. Very dissatisfying way to play.

Second, the reasons for save scumming. 2nd edition D&D, just like 1st edition, is seriously unforgiving. That was often worked around with a human DM to make decisions on the fly that prevent that sphere of annihilation from eating the halfling's head when he decides to "look inside". No such divine intervention exists in Baldur's Gate.

At this point I'm getting frustrated with even simple encounters, say a group of hobgoblins, getting a number of ranged attacks off at my 4 hp wild mage because I was simply moving across the map and everyone was out of position when the encounter took place. And that's with me constantly positioning them correctly on a regular basis. Since the formation only exists when your party is not moving, it's almost (but not quite) impossible to not get out of position while traveling.

Still, I'm making progress. I think everyone has leveled at least once except for the wild mage, and she's just about to do so. I'm just not having a lot of fun at the moment. I realize when everyone is less fragile and I have more spell options things will be more dynamic and interesting during combat, but I'm not there yet and I've put in over 20 hours according to Steam. How much of that is actual play time I don't know. 10-15, probably.

I'm particularly frustrated that I'm frustrated, as I was very hopeful that I would finally make it through the game after 2 decades. I'm less confident now. In fact I'm pessimistic.

Hyena · Post by **Hyena** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:54 pm

Just a bit of unsolicited advice, if you use Imoen to scout out as much of the map as you can in stealth, it eliminates a lot of that "surprise" factor and you can instead ambush them. It takes a bit longer, but the strategy outweighs the frustration until, like you said, you get a bit less squishy.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:01 pm

But be aware that you can't detect traps while in stealth.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:06 pm

Imoen's points are in trap detection and open lock. She's level 3 right now. She starts with 15 hide in shadows. I may have put 5 points in there to bring it up to 20.

I can easily scout with anyone, even non-stealthed characters and just retreat on enemy sighting (even easier when auto-pausing on enemy sighting), but that just exchanges 1 problem (out of position squishies dying) with increased tedium of fog of war removal. Since the squishy thing is fairly incidental but the fog of war tedium is more constant and therefore more annoying to me, I'm probably not going to roam the map with 1 character.

I get that you're giving me good advice, and I find it a little frustrating when others won't bend their gameplay to match the demands of the game (see: Xcom thread, a little) but leaving my party stationary while I move 1 character around the map is just too counter to the decades long ingrained concepts of party based D&D. Sure exploring the entire map with a stealthed thief is just the next logical step after scouting the next room with a stealthed thief, it's just too contrary to my deeply wired instincts in a D&D game to be an acceptable way for me to play the game. I would literally rather stop playing the game than do that.

Of course that's my choice, and again, your advice is sound. Not taking it is on me.

Good point about only having to do it until my party gets a bit stronger, though. That's more acceptable to me than playing the rest of the game like that. I'll play a bit more and see how I feel about it.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:27 pm

If you want to cheese the start of the game and a good ways in just use bows on everyone. Enemies just melt away.