Shadowrun Returns and Shadowrun Hong Kong

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:20 pm

ColdSteel wrote:Correct. You'll get another action point after you gain a certain amount of karma. There are speed spells that can give you an additional 1 or 2 actions points for up to 4 turns, which is pretty powerful. One of the shadowrunner support mages has that spell.

The Support Mage has become a staple for me. He's up to Armor +3 and Haste II (I think). Since I'm am running with a melee Adept, I love getting the extra movement and punches. The mage also has a heal. So I primarily use him to keep everyone buffed and healed.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:23 pm

Daehawk wrote:I've started this up. I gave up on modding it...really wanted some portraits but they locked up the game.

Im just leaving The Chop Shop but so far its just what I was hoping it would be. A lot like the 2 old Genesis and SNES versions with combat like Fallout. Love it. I wish th characters had voiced text though in this day and age. I didn't think Id care but it seems I got used to spoken stuff and miss it in this game. Not sure on what weapons are good. I randomly chose to concentrate on SMG due to burst fire.

What do I increase in my stats to get more action points?

How do I hotlink medkits to use in combat?

I've never used SMGs myself, but any weapon can be good as long as you focus on it. Now that you've picked SMGs, don't screw around with other weapon types, just focus on Quickness -> Firearms -> SMGs. Maybe throw some Dodge/Body in there to avoid getting killed all the time.

You don't get more action points via stats - however, you will go up to 3 in a scripted event about halfway through the game. However, if you hire a mage with "haste" for your runs, that'll scratch the action point itch a little bit.

You get six "equipment" slots that you assign at the start of the mission. Anything you leave in your stash stays there. The exception is if you pick something up off the ground in mission, then you can assign it to an equipment slot. You use your equipment by clicking the little backpack icon in the bottom right.

edit:

Oh, it's Karma levels. Did not realize that.

Anyway, yeah, there's one dwarf mage that I'd always hire, I forget his name but he's pretty distinct.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:17 pm

Finished this off this evening and very much enjoyed it. The first game in a while I've actually finished. Feels good.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:33 pm

Then I may just restart since Im at the beginning. I tossed a point into almost all the different weapon skills...one in smg one in shotgun oen in pistol. Figured if I found one in a mission I could actually equip and use it. But if I dont get many points and I need to focus on just one ill restart. no big deal. plus I suppose I should look up weps and see which ones are worth using. Im not sure on them at all. I always liked pistols but the one shot one shot seems to blow. At least thats what I gathered from that first fight. Burst seems to be a good idea. Shotguns might be cool ...powerful but need to get close..

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:54 am

Ok I've spent some time tonight studying info and heres what ive found / decided.

Weapons - I have made up my mind to use pistols. It just seems more in character for me to use them plus I love them plus they seem liek a good bet in the game. At skill lvl 3 you get to reload pistol for free..0ap costs..awesome.

Class - Still not totally set on this but plan to be a decker...a combat decker. I will use my guns a lot and then hope as a decker I get some good stuff from the matrix and such. Otherwise my only other option is a street samurai. The yseem all combat though. So they would be good with guns but thats about it I reckon.

Some gun talks....

http://steamcommunity.com/app/234650/di ... 575048455/

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/667057-s ... s/66825067

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:14 am

I believe they added a lot more decking opportunities in the dlc than in the base game. I sort of remember people being disappointed with decking in the base game which were addressed in the expansion dlc

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:51 am

Yeah, deckers were underutilized in the original campaign. It made playing one seem a little like a waste - you were rarely ever vital to your own success.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:19 am

More than that, anytime decking was vital to your progress, the game gave you a really powerful decker to join your party. I played a decker and there were a few instances where it let me do cool stuff, but on the whole, a different class would have been more useful. If you do go with a decker you might want to combo it with drone control (rigger?) for a little extra firepower.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:39 am

Can someone inform me on stat choices? At this point Im guessing first is pistols then comes body. Is that right and if not what order should I add points? Quickness?

Madmarcus · Post by **Madmarcus** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:26 am

I just got the 3rd action point to give you an idea of where I am in the game. I really pumped charisma at first (shaman) but now I'm rolling with 5 quickness, 4 ranged combat and 4 pistol. I wish I could tank a little more but its working.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:56 am

It's important to put some points in body so that you can take some hits. It's best to specialize in the areas you want to focus on or that your class specializes in rather than spreading points everywhere. By the last mission my Shaman had:

Body - 6
Willpower - 2
Spellcasting - 2 (for healing spell)
Dodge - 2
Quickness - 7
Ranged Combat - 7
Pistol - 1
Shotgun - 6
Rifle - 7
Charisma - 6
Spirit Summoning - 6
Spirit Control - 6
Conjuring - 6

I was sporting a 20 damage Enfield AS-7 shotgun with burst fire, and 16 damage Ares Alpha assault rifle. Those combined with an AP of 4 or 5, headshot, full auto, aimed shot, burst fire, and other weapon skills allowed me to pretty much wipe the floor with my enemies. The rifle allowed me to easily take out threats at distance and the shotgun in burst mode on overwatch annihilated any coming through doors or attacking up close on their turn. I chose Bear totem and had the heal spell too so it was easy to recover if my team took any damage. I sported a +2 AP and a +3 AP spell that allowed me to do a lot on a turn. I had 2 conjuring spells to summon a lightning AoE field that did damage and reduced enemy AP and a fire AoE field that did straight damage. If things got tough, I carried 3 level 5 and 6 fetishes to summon nasty elementals. They were hardly ever needed, though. It was a powerful build.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:25 am

ColdSteel wrote:It's important to put some points in body so that you can take some hits. It's best to specialize in the areas you want to focus on or that your class specializes in rather than spreading points everywhere. By the last mission my Shaman had:

Body - 6
Willpower - 2
Spellcasting - 2 (for healing spell)
Dodge - 2
Quickness - 7
Ranged Combat - 7
Pistol - 1
Shotgun - 6
Rifle - 7
Charisma - 6
Spirit Summoning - 6
Spirit Control - 6
Conjuring - 6

I was sporting a 20 damage Enfield AS-7 shotgun with burst fire, and 16 damage Ares Alpha assault rifle. Those combined with an AP of 4 or 5, headshot, full auto, aimed shot, burst fire, and other weapon skills allowed me to pretty much wipe the floor with my enemies. The rifle allowed me to easily take out threats at distance and the shotgun in burst mode on overwatch annihilated any coming through doors or attacking up close on their turn. I chose Bear totem and had the heal spell too so it was easy to recover if my team took any damage. I sported a +2 AP and a +3 AP spell that allowed me to do a lot on a turn. I had 2 conjuring spells to summon a lightning AoE field that did damage and reduced enemy AP and a fire AoE field that did straight damage. If things got tough, I carried 3 level 5 and 6 fetishes to summon nasty elementals. They were hardly ever needed, though. It was a powerful build.

I always loved fighting NPC Shamans, they always seemed to summon a creature and then lose control of it. Then all the NPC's would focus fire on the spirit, and I could mop them up.

I played Mages, in both the original and the DLC. Very powerful, and actually a little too easy to kill the bad guys. Once I got going with the high level spells, I could literally start killing the bad guys pretty quickly.

I never even put any points into any weapon, as it was better to use my spellbolt instead of a gun most of the time.

I really want to play a rigger though the content, but while I enjoyed the stories, I don't really see replaying them as an option. But there are a ton of user created content, so I might try one of those if the feeling hits me.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:32 pm

Body - 6
Willpower - 2
Spellcasting - 2 (for healing spell)
Dodge - 2
Quickness - 7
Ranged Combat - 7
Pistol - 1
Shotgun - 6
Rifle - 7
Charisma - 6
Spirit Summoning - 6
Spirit Control - 6
Conjuring - 6

Wow, you really spread that karma out. I can never bring myself to play a mage type because I love me some cybernetics (the free skill boosts are just too good to pass up). But I guess summoning isn't affected by essence? I don't know that I would have spent the 22 karma on non-rifle weapons (maybe bring quickness/ranged up to 8 instead and up your dodge a little), but, at the end of the day, if it floats your boat and works well then go for it. I didn't use shotguns myself, but Coyote with the shotgun was beastly (this was before the kneecap got nerfed).

Another thing to note is that the Dragonfall campaign introduces sniper rifles, which are farking awesome at long range and fall under the same skill tree as regular rifles I believe. This means that you can cover two types of firearms with one skill tree branch, which is not too shabby.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:45 pm

NickAragua wrote:But I guess summoning isn't affected by essence?

Yeah, unfortunately it is. If you're using spells then each essence you use on cyber implants increases the number of turns before you can cast a spell again by 1. So I had none of the cyber add-ons which is too bad. One of the higher rated user campaigns actually adds magical tattoos you can get for mage type characters that that is similar to cyber enhancements but specific to magic users. That sounds pretty cool and I might try that one after I finish Dragonfall.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:50 pm

ColdSteel wrote:
NickAragua wrote:But I guess summoning isn't affected by essence?
Yeah, unfortunately it is. If you're using spells then each essence you use on cyber implants increases the number of turns before you can cast a spell again by 1. So I had none of the cyber add-ons which is too bad. One of the higher rated user campaigns actually adds magical tattoos you can get for mage type characters that that is similar to cyber enhancements but specific to magic users. That sounds pretty cool and I might try that one after I finish Dragonfall.

Yeah, that does sound pretty cool. Could you post the mod's name if you remember it?

If you're just doing summoning it doesn't seem like a big deal to lose some essence - how often would you need to resummon your elemental guys anyway? In my experience they tend to last the entire fight.

Another good part about Dragonfall is that you can actually get "bioware" which is similar to cyberware except that it doesn't screw with your essence (quite as much). So a mage might be able to get away with a single .5 essence implant.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:29 pm

NickAragua wrote:Could you post the mod's name if you remember it?

I don't remember the name but will see if I can track it down.

NickAragua wrote:If you're just doing summoning it doesn't seem like a big deal to lose some essence

You're right. Summoning uses fetishes which are one-time use consumables so if limited yourself to just that that you'd be fine. The problem is that the haste spell (increases your AP), which is arguably one of the most useful spells in the game, uses conjuring as does your totem and spells like slow and lightning field. So all of those conjuring spells are affected by implants. But if you didn't care about those and just wanted summoning, theoretically you could load up on implants, boost Charisma, Summoning and Spirit Control and summon away with no essence impact.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:40 pm

ColdSteel wrote:
NickAragua wrote:Could you post the mod's name if you remember it?
I don't remember the name but will see if I can track it down.

Possibly found it on Nexus or something like it. It's not a campaign, just a mod to add the tattoos. The name, ironically enough is "Magical Tattoos". Description is:

Have added \\\'tattoos\\\' that are placed in cyberware slots to help give adepts a leg up on street sams that don\\\'t have to pay karma for chi casting, plus have access to cyberware:

From the description this may not be the one I saw but somewhat similar. I'll keep looking.

astyanax · Post by **astyanax** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:31 pm

ColdSteel wrote:Possibly found it on Nexus or something like it. It's not a campaign, just a mod to add the tattoos. The name, ironically enough is "Magical Tattoos".

(OT) I can't help being reminded of Planescape: Torment.

NickAragua wrote:Another good part about Dragonfall is that you can actually get "bioware" which is similar to cyberware except that it doesn't screw with your essence (quite as much).

I've only played vanilla Shadowrun so far, but I saw a few bioware limbs towards the end of the game. I'm hoping I'll enjoy Dragonfall as much as (or more than) the original.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:45 am

Is there a way to see my entire inv instead of just what is equipped?

How do I use a medpack during or after a fight? Do I heal completely after a fight on my own?

If I have 5 karma points to spend and want to move a skill to lvl 2 it is supposed to need 2 points...but for some reason I cannot make it go tto lvl 2 in pistols. The quickness skill is at lvl 3 and the lvl 2 pistol skill is blue to me and says 2 on it...but no matter what buttons I push I hear a buzz but it wont give me the skill.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:22 am

Daehawk wrote:Is there a way to see my entire inv instead of just what is equipped?

You can only see what's in your stash (not equipped) under 3 conditions:
1. You're in the Seamstress Union and go click on your stash locker there.
2. You buy something from an NPC and select "Buy/Sell".
3. You pick something up in a mission (it will bring up your stash and ask if you want to move it there).

Daehawk wrote:How do I use a medpack during or after a fight? Do I heal completely after a fight on my own?

Click on your backpack icon on the lower right. Then click on a medkit and target the character you want to heal (including yourself). You do not heal completely on your own after a fight as long as you remain in combat (turn based mode). You do heal when moving to a new map or after combat mode ends (no more turn mode).

Daehawk wrote:If I have 5 karma points to spend and want to move a skill to lvl 2 it is supposed to need 2 points...but for some reason I cannot make it go tto lvl 2 in pistols. The quickness skill is at lvl 3 and the lvl 2 pistol skill is blue to me and says 2 on it...but no matter what buttons I push I hear a buzz but it wont give me the skill.

Guns have 2 prerequisites for their skills. Quickness and Ranged Combat. Both have to be at or above the level of the skill you are trying to acquire. In your case both Quickness and Ranged Combat will need to be 2 before you can get level 2 pistol. You can tell the highest skill you can get because on the UI there is a vertical line that shows your max skill choice level for a skill category.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Should I buy Dragonfall on the Steam sale? I haven't even played Shadowrun yet, but it looks like something I might like.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:31 pm

Jag wrote:Should I buy Dragonfall on the Steam sale? I haven't even played Shadowrun yet, but it looks like something I might like.

Yes.. It is better than the first campaign. Just finished it, and it was very good.

astyanax · Post by **astyanax** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:40 pm

Jag wrote:Should I buy Dragonfall on the Steam sale? I haven't even played Shadowrun yet, but it looks like something I might like.

I only bought the original when it was last on sale because I wasn't sure if I'd like it, and I played straight to completion that weekend. It was a blast! It was linear, but it did a great job introducing the world of Shadowrun.

My friends tell me that Dragonfall is much better than the base game- it fixed all the issues they had with the original- so I didn't hesitate when I saw it on sale again.

Madmarcus · Post by **Madmarcus** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:23 pm

astyanax wrote: I only bought the original when it was last on sale because I wasn't sure if I'd like it, and I played straight to completion that weekend. It was a blast! It was linear, but it did a great job introducing the world of Shadowrun.

While I haven't played straight through I feel the same way. Its a shame that the user made content doesn't seem to get great reviews but I'm really looking forwards to Dragonfall.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:37 pm

Madmarcus wrote:Its a shame that the user made content doesn't seem to get great reviews

Try "A Stitch In Time". It's gotten great reviews from pretty much everyone and is supposed to be well written and polished compared to some others. I'll be trying it.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:38 am

Having a lot of fun with this despite some quirks. I dont care for the stash mechanic. Id prefer it like in Diablo 2. A chest i can move stuff back and forth in and not the silly way I can access it in game. Also I liked the look I started with but for better armor Im having to wear some kind of butt ugly gas mask suit. Also I the only weps for sale are the starting ones...so far. No good pistol yet.

Also Im going to have to read up on using grenades in fights since I cant see my inv as I usually do and I have no hot bar. They made it more difficult than it needs to be.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:50 am

Daehawk wrote:Also I the only weps for sale are the starting ones

They get better and better as you progress.

Daehawk wrote:Also Im going to have to read up on using grenades in fights since I cant see my inv as I usually do and I have no hot bar. They made it more difficult than it needs to be.

The backpack button *is* your hotkey. Click on it and select the grenade you want to throw then move your mouse to where you want to throw it on the screen. It will show the AoE area affected and the percent to land there. It works just like targeting spells. Bear in mind you'll need some points in the throwing skill if you want to hit the broad side of a barn or throw it very far.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:08 am

I fired this back up over the weekend, never having finished the main campaign. From my saves, it's been over 6 months. My previous save was there, but I had little context to go on to remember what I had been doing, the same as with all my RPGs.

So I restarted the main campaign. Hopefully, I can finish it this week, then move on to Dragonfall.

Also, as someone that never played the old SNES game, I'm wondering. Did they ever finish the re-do that was listed at alpha on game launch?

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:15 am

I believe it's still called Alpha in the Steam Workshop

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =166810095

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:25 am

Thanks. Looks like it's still a WIP.

Be advised - the module is not properly balanced for the default character (Jake) or a new character, you should import a leveled up character. Drones and other gear may not transfer over.

More effort than I want to put in at the moment.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:32 am

I tried the SNES Shadowrun remake mod some time ago, and while it brings back amusing memories, I find the fundamental approach flawed. The SNES version featured some pretty awful mechanics, including:

- otherwise uninteresting empty rooms filled with constantly respawning bad guys
- a need to grind, grind, grind, grind karma
- a shitty keyword-based dialogue system
- really long walks through empty territory (except for the constantly respawning bad guys) to get from one important location to another
- not even a hint of where to go next if you've somehow forgotten or got distracted

All of which appear to have been replicated, with the bonus of multiple spelling and grammar errors.

Thankfully, the combat system is the modern turn-based one, but the AI wasn't exactly hot stuff to begin with, so when the random encounters spawn, the bad guys are mindnumbingly easy to dispatch. It's even better when they spawn in an empty street - there's no cover anywhere, so you just stand there and shoot at each other.

I mean, I understand that the person working on it isn't some bigshot professional game designer, but it really makes me sad when a "remake" replicates the fundamental flaws of the original.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:04 pm

I remember loving both the SNES game and the Genesis game. Of course I was a Genesis whore and liked that one best. Loved buying guns and such in it. I cant believe they never made more of them.

I like this one so much even though Ive not gotten far that i talked the wife into $6 and bought the addon to it last night.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:26 pm

Don't get me wrong, I liked the original SNES and Sega Shadowrun games just fine - it's just that when you're remaking the whole thing from scratch, maybe take some lessons learned over the last several decades of game design instead of just copy and pasting the whole thing.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:18 pm

I got sick of trying people's mods that were either broken or "this is my first mod, I only have one room so far, hope you like it." So I dusted off a mod I started over a year ago. With a week or two of polishing it should be ready to play.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:48 pm

Let me know if you want any help testing.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:14 am

Uh oh. I dont own the add on. For some reason after I added the $5 I didn't go and buy the add on. I swear I did but nope. Dont own it. Now it's 415....gotta wait on a sale again haha.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:37 pm

NickAragua wrote:Let me know if you want any help testing.

Definitely. Adding a few more wrinkles.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:17 am

Im to the point where I can go to the basement and visit the shops. Not sure what Im doing yet. I can carry two guns but I think I can only swap them in battle and not use two at once. Will see. Also Im not sure I can use shotguns and rifles and such. I have 4 in ranged combat but I am putting all points into pistol right now. Would I be better getting a more powerful rifle instead until I find a better pistol? I bought the only one they offered me. Its the same damage as my old gun but holds more rounds so less reloading. Also I cant seem to equip Paco at all. I dont have access to the armor or the knife I bought him...just stims it seems. i got hi ma much better knife than his bat but cant find a way to give it to him.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:25 am

Daehawk wrote: can carry two guns but I think I can only swap them in battle and not use two at once.

You have 3 equipped slots for guns and can use all 3 of those in any battle (pistol, rifle, shotgun). You can't have 2 pistols equipped and you can't swap equipment unless you have access to your stash. So, you have to choose your equipment carefully before you go on a mission.

Daehawk wrote:Also I cant seem to equip Paco at all.

You can only give NPCs consumables like health packs or grenades. You can't mess with their weapons or armor. As for Paco, have him use his gun at all times. Knives are worthless.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:53 am

I didn't know he had a gun. When I see his inv I see nothing and he has a bat he used in fights. Ill see if I can make him use the hidden gun.

As for my 3 wep slots Im a decker so I only get 2 slots because my deck takes one up. Ill see about selling my old pistol.

Since I specialized in pistol I can still use the other guns? And would they be better than pistols since Im spec'd in them? Also does the gun matter if the damage is better? Like a shotgun might do 12 but a rifle would do 8 but fire multiple bullets. Confusing.