Clockwork Empires

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:35 pm

Press release
PC Gamer preview

"Steampunk Dwarf Fortress meets Anno with Lovecraft Influences" by Gaslamp Games, the guys who made Dungeons of Dredmor.

Among their primary inspirations are some of the crazy Dwarf Fortress succession Let's Plays like Boatmurdered and Gemclod, and they're doing built-in round-robin succession gameplay support.

Anyway, I think this bears keeping an eye on. DoD is a great, great roguelike, with excellent post-release support, so I'm willing to give the devs the initial benefit of the doubt. The release date is currently pegged as "late 2013", so it'll be awhile before anything concrete comes around. Limited access beta is "maybe early 2013".

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:13 pm

Looks good. I'd give it a go.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:16 pm

That looks like it will get me epically excited only to disappoint me thoroughly. In.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:09 pm

Kelric wrote:That looks like it will get me epically excited only to disappoint me thoroughly. In.

Yeah, that's about where I am. It sounds incredibly awesome. Chances are it won't be as incredibly awesome as it sounds and I'll wind up not having as much fun with it as I'm currently imagining. But I'm willing to extend trust to Gaslamp based on Dredmor (my second most played game on Steam, after Shogun II) that the game will still ultimately be fun.

Anyway, I'll try to post more as more info becomes available. One thing one of the developers was talking about in another forum is that they're using a fairly cool method of procedurally generating buildings. You still plop down a blacksmith (or whatever), but you decide what its footprint looks like and you can select an architectural style, so you can have octagonal pagoda blacksmiths, long rectangular brick blacksmiths covered in steam vents, etc. This particular feature is already in and working (in fact, from what I gather, the dude wrote a thesis at least partially about the algorithm).

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:13 pm

Dredmor is mostly very good from a mechanics standpoint. City of Invisible Geometries is an entirely different genre, but Dredmor is clever enough mechanically that there's reason for hope, though it should be heavily tempered.

OTOH, Dredmor's interface is bad. That's an area Gaslamp have a lot of room for improvement in.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:51 pm

Here is an interview with Gaslamp about CE.

Dredmor's interface isn't great, but it doesn't really obstruct gameplay (unlike, say, DF). I do agree that for a game of this type, UI is going to be important, though.

EDIT: This is somewhat of a false dichotomy, but I'd rather have a good game with a not-good interface (DF) than a not-good game with a good interface (Endless Space). Obviously good game AND good interface is best, but I'll take gameplay over interface every day of the week if I'm forced to choose.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:58 pm

Looks good.

I really need to install and play Dredmor. Maybe this weekend.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:12 pm

Zurai wrote: Dredmor's interface isn't great, but it doesn't really obstruct gameplay (unlike, say, DF).

I don't agree with that at all.

Autolooting is swell (though the fact that it works on broad categories can be a problem). However, managing your inventory is a fucking nightmare and there is a lot of inventory management to do in Dredmor, unless you skip crafting/encrusting entirely *and* decide not to horde anything *and* barely pick stuff up to sell.

The pocket dimension is a nice idea but what it should really give you, in terms of inventory, is an unlimited inventory (practically speaking; technically I am sure there are limits somewhere but who cares). An inventory that should also be readily filterable so you can view different types of things at a given time. As opposed to a space where you have to methodically drop everything you want to drop (drag and drop, or else you have to turn off auto looting so you can walk over a pile and then key+click drop everything. That method is better in a sense but it's also worse in another sense) only to later have problems figuring out what is where and then there's the issue of what stuff is on the bottom/vs top of a stack.

Given the amount of stuff there is in the game, this is a huge problem. You can of course just sell most of everything but even if you only try to save up a few things, it becomes tedious quickly. And the back-pack is too small given the huge variants on types of items (65 different consumeables, etc), and the fact that auto loot only works on broad categories. A significant part of dredmor is managing inventory, even if it's only selling stuff. The game is absolutely in it's own way when it comes to doing inventory stuff.

The wizardlands command words are a nice idea but interface implementation is a problem (given that there isn't one). Who thought it was a good idea to force me to write all of this shit down? Somebody who didn't think this all the way through. I would say I average a command word per dungeon level explored. Keeping track of them is absurdly obnoxious, though I'm fond of the idea.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:19 pm

Inventory really isn't a problem with Wizardlands, IME, unless you're playing with all the crafting skills at the same time. If you stick to one crafting skill (or two that use mostly the same materials, like tinkering+smithing) you can generally safely ignore half to two thirds the stuff on the ground. If you're just picking up stuff to sell it, you only need to use one space in your pocket dimension for it, because it doesn't matter if you can find item A vs B quickly. There's otherwise plenty of space to separate items out visually. I run with quite a few mods and still manage to do smithing+tinkering characters while keeping sections open for useful potions and wands.

Dredmor's inventory is no worse than any of the Diablo games, and better than them for the fact that you don't have to play inventory tetris and in that you have actual unlimited storage.

Would a filterable inventory be nice? Sure. I've never seen a filterable inventory in a roguelike (or by default in any other genre, for that matter; literally the only game I've played that I can think of with filterable inventories is WoW and that's only with user mods), though, so it's really, really hard for me to accept that lack of a filterable inventory obstructs gameplay in any meaningful fashion.

Honestly, the Wizardland codes were just poorly implemented in general (I hate, hate, hate that they're one-use-per-PC-ever). That isn't an overall UI issue, though.

On a scale from 1 to Dwarf Fortress, I'd rate DoD a 4 or 5. There's plenty of room for improvement, but the game is perfectly playable with the current interface. You don't need a wiki open to figure out how to make soap. You don't have to buy "Dungeons of Dredmor for Dummies" (not that I'm knocking DF for Dummies, because it's a great book) to figure out how to set up a basic, absolutely critical function of the game (military). You don't have to burrow through four text-only menus with text-only input to find out why your character won't do what you tell him to do.

You do have to manage your inventory, and it's a bit more of a chore than it really needs to be, but again, IME, inventory management is not what makes playing the game stop being fun. The #1 and #2 causes of me stopping a character and making a new one are that the gameplay does get a bit repetitive once you've gotten your primary skills and that it's really, really easy to die quickly if you stop paying attention. I don't think I've ever stopped playing a character because inventory management was a chore.

-----

Anyway, from that interview I linked:

DJ: Obviously 3D art is a big part of it. I think one of the reasons why Dwarf Fortress isn’t for everyone right now… There are a couple of reasons, but I think the two big reasons are the graphics and the user interface. So we’re doing things that will allow us to try to get a lot of the functionality through while making it easy enough for people to pick it up. We’re trying very hard not to outwardly or ostensibly label it as “Dwarf Fortress For Everybody.” But that’s sort of our goal at heart, to try and take that experience and make it accessible. Spending a lot of time on the user interface, making that type of game look like a type of game that people are familiar with and use the same types of tropes in terms of user interface, things that people have already learned, to get them interested in it.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:46 pm

RPS has a great new preview of Clockwork Empires. John Walker is a pretty gloomy guy usually so to see him this excited about it gives me hope.

Also alpha gameplay from PCGamer at GDC.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:30 am

ColdSteel wrote:RPS has a great new preview of Clockwork Empires. John Walker is a pretty gloomy guy usually so to see him this excited about it gives me hope.

Yay! Still interested. Maybe I should bump Dredmor up the list in my backlog, too.

And the behaviour can even surprise the developers. They hand wrote that soldiers can get demoralised in battle, Jacobsen explained. And they hand wrote that drinking too much alcohol can cause characters to lose memories. What they hadn’t written is that soldiers who drink too much after battle are the best units, as they can forget the horrors they faced and might be willing to fight again.

Also, FLYING OBELISK FISH MONSTERS?!

Edit - I missed that there was game play footage from PC Gamer. I'll check it out later. And now I want to switch my wallpaper back to the Clockwork Empires artwork I DLed years ago.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:32 am

ColdSteel wrote:RPS has a great new preview of Clockwork Empires. John Walker is a pretty gloomy guy usually so to see him this excited about it gives me hope.

Imagine if so much of the bullshit Peter Molyneux has talked over the years was actually in a game. A simulation game where each tiny human lived their own lives, had their own thoughts and feelings and memories, and behaved accordingly. It’s a claim we’ve heard so often that it’s hard not to dismiss it out of hand. So much so that when Dungeons Of Dredmor developers Gaslamp Games were claiming it, I demanded they stop and prove it to me… They did. Clockwork Empires, a colonial village building sim (of sorts) pulls you in with the cult monster worship, but you stay for the extraordinary AI.

I want to believe!

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:19 am

Kelric wrote:Also, FLYING OBELISK FISH MONSTERS?!

And for a good look at the tentacled monstrosity, watch THIS! Pure awesomeness.

Butterknife · Post by **Butterknife** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:36 pm

I'm very interested in this game. I like building up my towns, but at some point I want to destroy it all. Banished was fun for the building part, but didn't let me destroy anything. Hopefully this game scratches that itch.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:10 am

How did I miss this the first time around?

I loved DoD as a $5 game.

I would pay to get in this beta (alpha?).

Sign me up.

Island Dog · Post by **Island Dog** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:35 pm

I've been reading and watching the stuff out of GDC about this. It's looking great!

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:25 pm

Earliest Access is available now.

I was just thinking about this game the other day, but couldn't remember the name of it to save my soul. And today, an email about earliest access pops up in my mailbox. Timing is everything!

Suitably Ironic Moniker · Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:50 pm

I've been anticipating this game for a while, but I think I'm going to wait for it to be completed.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:32 am

I'll definitely buy this one, but not while it's incomplete. It looks so cool that I don't want to play it with the wires and gears hanging out.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:14 am

Been waiting impatiently for this. Ordered... Apparently through humble bundle, though Gaslight swears this will be Steam activatable.

I would say I hate to pay $30 for a game, especially when it may be a disappointment but after I paid only $5 for Dungeons of Dredmore, they get some respect in the form of a few extra dollars here.

My weekend is officially shot. Sad, I was going to mow, spray, trim, shave, and go to DetCon this weekend. Now I'm going to park my fat ass in front of a computer to play an incomplete game all weekend.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:29 am

Can't decide if I want to dive into this yet or not... I've got plenty of games to keep me going at the moment, but I also have been very interested in Clockwork Empires since it was announced. Maybe I'll pick it up, give it a spin, and then leave it alone for a while while they finish it.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:32 am

Just in time for a 4 day weekend!

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:25 am

Don't forget to report back!

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:27 am

Looks like the minimum specs calls for an I5 processor. Guess I'm safe with an I3 (for now).

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:47 am

tgb wrote:Looks like the minimum specs calls for an I5 processor. Guess I'm safe with an I3 (for now).

I saw that after I bought the game. I don't think I had the minimum for Dugeons for Dredmore either... Also this might the encouragement needed to upgrade my machine.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:18 pm

LordMortis wrote:
tgb wrote:Looks like the minimum specs calls for an I5 processor. Guess I'm safe with an I3 (for now).
I saw that after I bought the game. I don't think I had the minimum for Dugeons for Dredmore either... Also this might the encouragement needed to upgrade my machine.

The requirements for Dreadmore were a lot lighter:

Processor: Core 2 Duo/Athlon 64 or above recommended
Memory: 1 GB of RAM minimum; 2 GB recommended
Hard Disk Space: 400+ megabytes
Video Card: Any DirectX-compatible video device with a minimum resolution of 1024 x 600 or 1024 x 768
DirectX®: 9
Sound: Any DirectX-compatible audio device

Still, I can't imagine why this would need an I5. Maybe it's just a matter of optimization, but I will hold off until I know for sure.

Toe · Post by **Toe** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:21 pm

tgb wrote: Still, I can't imagine why this would need an I5. Maybe it's just a matter of optimization, but I will hold off until I know for sure.

Based on the little I know about the game, I would guess that size processor is need to managed all of the AI processing going on. With villagers that react differently based on previous events, establish friends and emulate each others behavior, etc, etc, it ends up being a massive load on the CPU.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:43 pm

Well Star Ruler 2 is coming out tomorrow on Early Access as well, I may have to take a 'wait and see' position on this one.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:03 pm

Lorini wrote:Well Star Ruler 2 is coming out tomorrow on Early Access as well, I may have to take a 'wait and see' position on this one.

It is? I may have to check that out.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:13 pm

tgb wrote:
Lorini wrote:Well Star Ruler 2 is coming out tomorrow on Early Access as well, I may have to take a 'wait and see' position on this one.
It is? I may have to check that out.

Yup Firgof announced it Tuesday. Trailer is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8EEYfVJrgA

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:00 pm

Lorini wrote:Well Star Ruler 2 is coming out tomorrow on Early Access as well, I may have to take a 'wait and see' position on this one.

Did Star Ruler 1 ever STOP being Early Access?

I'll probably jump on both. Well, I've already jumped on Clockwork Empires. Lovecraftian Steampunk Colony Building - they basically just describe my ideal setting!

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:01 pm

Yeah Clockwork Empires is certainly attractive but I think I'll do SR2 first since it's a sequel.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:41 pm

Lorini wrote:Well Star Ruler 2 is coming out tomorrow on Early Access as well, I may have to take a 'wait and see' position on this one.

Stop that! I'm already spending too much money on video gaming!

baelthazar wrote:Lovecraftian Steampunk Colony Building - they basically just describe my ideal setting!

I don't know if it's ideal but it has me hooked.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:07 pm

Downloading!

Edit:
Still rough around the edges and after about 30 minutes with it I was seeing lots of little obvious bugs... buildings not quite working right, UI acting funny, etc. I'll probably wait for a patch or two for them to clean up the big stuff, but so far I like what I see.

Building construction was easy to use and intuitive... without knowing anything I was able to see what different buildings needed to function right and build a few. Your colonists also seem to be divided into work crews and members of a crew will stick together and do whatever job they are assigned together.

Lots of nice little touches too like lots of character traits and backgrounds to look through.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:45 pm

Q. “What are testers saying about the current state of the game?”
A. “The earliest build is best described as an occult cabbage-farming simulator with fishpeople.”

I still plan on downloading and playing and apparently not saving when I get home.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:01 pm

I just lost two hours to it. Think gnomoria with much, much more polish. It is still raw though. You can see development progress on their Project Status Page

It is mostly intuitive, though I'm having a tough time figuring out workshops. I think a workshop must be manned by an overseer, and that overseer will not work in more than one workshop. This implies that early on, you want an overseer and one worker in each work crew. I have not tested to see if non-workcrew people will work at all, so maybe that's not the best idea.

Immigrants don't seem to come fast enough to replace the ones getting eaten by fish people, but it may be I just expanded too fast. Also, patrolling for the military isn't in yet, so that might prevent issues as well.

Also, saves aren't in yet.

Lots of potential.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:26 pm

I think I shall actually have to fire up my laptop tonight and try this...

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:41 pm

Unless you're interested in the development process, I wouldn't shell out for early access. There's lots of bugs and it doesn't even save yet.

That being said, I really like what I see. It's going to be a fun builder with a really good balance of accessibility and complexity.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:25 pm

You're a smarter man than I am. I build farms but I couldn't figure out how to assign someone to them. I couldn't figure out what to do with the herd. I build wood shop and assigned trees to be cut down and no would chop them down. And that was pretty much my whole experience as I watched people slowly starve.

As close as I could come to assigning people to do stuff was to assign groups to explicitly not do stuff, which obviously didn't help.

So I didn't even make it to cabbage farming.

Also it crashed twice on start up but I didn't see it generate a log to send off the developers. Not sure I should try or not as I am running on a P4 2.6 Dual Core machine, a bit short of the minimum requirement.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:24 am

Odd, my people built shops, cut trees, and farmed without needing to be assigned. Must be an Early Access bug.