Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri May 22, 2015 6:00 pm

Another thing to consider is the cross-chassis upgrade program. Lifetime insurance is no longer available on already existing ships but one can buy this relatively inexpensive ship and then later upgrade it to a larger ship via the CCU program and it will still retain the LTI from the original purchase.

The CCU program can be a bit confusing so let me know if you'd like more detail.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:30 pm

I may buy that Reliant. I love the look of it it being a wing. I wonder with it being a mini freighter if it would fight well with my Mustang. I need two ships to guard my Freelancer and got the Mustang as one of them. but I still need a second one and this one looks great.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:22 pm

One of the planned future variants for the Reliant is a combat model.

“Skirmisher” – The frontier combat version of the Reliant trades cargo for a high-yield powerplant, stronger shields and additional weapons mounts.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:28 pm

I bet it will cost more and not have lifetime insurance.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:34 pm

Of course.

That's why you buy the Reliant now, with the Life Time Insurance and then, when it becomes available, you buy the upgrade to the variant which will be the difference in cost only. (Typically $15-$25 depending on the variant) That way you still keep the LTI.

The Rocketman · Post by **The Rocketman** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:21 am

Really no offense meant, to each his own, etc.

But I just don't understand how you can spend real money on fictional insurances and other stuff, in a game that's not even finished.

I get that you want to support an independent developer, that you believe in the system and all that. But still,the sheer amount of money generated on a promise, is beyond my comprehension.

I really really hope the game will be as awesome as promised, and that you guys won't be disappointed! But I'm afraid you're buying into a dream...

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:58 am

The Rocketman wrote:I really really hope the game will be as awesome as promised, and that you guys won't be disappointed! But I'm afraid you're buying into a dream...

That's what stopped me dead at $160.

I'm planning to play this as a single player game, but it sounds amazing and I'm hoping they can pull it off. I've sunk hundreds and hundreds of hours into X3, and I'm hoping to do the same here if the quality of content is as good as they promise it will be.

There are two reasons I went as far as $160:

1. I wanted to support development. I've loved the previous games Chris made, and don't doubt his ability to make another.
2. If I ever go into the Persistent Universe, I wanted to start with the Freelancer and not just a basic model fighter.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:02 am

The Rocketman wrote:But I just don't understand how you can spend real money on fictional insurances and other stuff, in a game that's not even finished.

This is basically what's keeping me away at this point.

Elite: Dangerous scratched a gaming itch that I didn't even know I had. So much so that I dropped a chunk of cash for a Saitek x52 HOTAS set-up. I've been desperately looking for something new that I can use it with, and Star Citizen seemed like the most natural fit. However, their baffling pricing structure, all this crazy insurance nonsense, the mind-boggling number of options/setups/modes available, etc., etc. has kept me from jumping in. I'm hoping some of it gets settled with a final release, and I can just buy the damn game instead of trying to wrap my head around all this craziness.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:18 am

Mustang Alpha Starter Pack - $45. Gets you a basic fighter and access to the current Arena Commander game, as well as the full game on release. You never need to spend another dime of real monies to get the final Single Player game or access to the Persistent Universe (PU) when it comes out... and when you go to the PU, you'll start with that ship in your hangar and insurance (replacement in the event of destruction) costs paid for on the next 3 months of PU game time.

If you decide at a later time that you want to bump up to a bigger ship, you can 'melt' this down and apply the $45 towards that other ship purchase.

The Rocketman · Post by **The Rocketman** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:29 am

Paingod wrote:Mustang Alpha Starter Pack - $45. Gets you a basic fighter and access to the current Arena Commander game, as well as the full game on release. You never need to spend another dime of real monies to get the final Single Player game or access to the Persistent Universe (PU) when it comes out... and when you go to the PU, you'll start with that ship in your hangar and insurance (replacement in the event of destruction) costs paid for on the next 3 months of PU game time.

If you decide at a later time that you want to bump up to a bigger ship, you can 'melt' this down and apply the $45 towards that other ship purchase.

How much flak would Blizzard get if they told everyone that Hardcore Diablo is the only way to play, but luckily you can buy insurance for your character if you die? Does that even remotely sound like a good idea, or your idea of a fun game? It boggles my mind that they get away with this!

I'm willing to invest in a developer, and help him create the ultimate game. But these kind of schemes? It sounds so... wrong!

But again, I hope I'm wrong here, and that the game will be fun for both the wealthy and less-fortunate gamers among us.

*EDIT: I don't want to come of too agressive against anyone here. I quoted Paingod, but that's just for using his example, and I thank him for pointing out that there are affordable ways to help the devs and get into the game.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:46 am

Paingod wrote:Mustang Alpha Starter Pack - $45. Gets you a basic fighter and access to the current Arena Commander game, as well as the full game on release. You never need to spend another dime of real monies to get the final Single Player game or access to the Persistent Universe (PU) when it comes out... and when you go to the PU, you'll start with that ship in your hangar and insurance (replacement in the event of destruction) costs paid for on the next 3 months of PU game time.

If you decide at a later time that you want to bump up to a bigger ship, you can 'melt' this down and apply the $45 towards that other ship purchase.

Helpful, thanks.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:48 am

The Rocketman wrote:How much flak would Blizzard get if they told everyone that Hardcore Diablo is the only way to play, but luckily you can buy insurance for your character if you die? Does that even remotely sound like a good idea, or your idea of a fun game? It boggles my mind that they get away with this!

I'm willing to invest in a developer, and help him create the ultimate game. But these kind of schemes? It sounds so... wrong!

It's a semi-hardcore world.

You create a character. That character is your avatar. That character can be maimed and have cybernetic augments implanted to keep them going. After a while, or by one massive trauma, you're killed and your property is handed down to your next character. It's still "you" - there's no skill tree to lose, no items vanish. You are not your ship, but an avatar piloting a ship. You can board other ships, engage in first-person combat, etc.

When a ship gets shot down, your insurance (supposedly a low cost thing) kicks in and a replacement is put together to be sent to your avatar. The time this takes depends on the popularity of the ship (how many are constantly being made) and the expense. Very large or rare ships will take some time to get back to you.

So it's semi-hardcore. You won't really lose anything when you die, but you'll be inconvenienced and hopefully call it a learning lesson. Insurance is supposed to be very affordable, but not instant replacement that can be abused or taken fore-granted.

Very very large ships (crews of 10+ people, I think) can't actually log off in the PU and are always at risk of being boarded and captured by other guilds/corporations. It will probably take a phenomenally long time for insurance to replace that if you lose it. The assumption is that a ship that large requires a real life crew and can really only be managed by a big enough corporation that can staff it 24 hours a day in some fashion.

If you don't have enough friends, you can hire out NPC's to crew your ships with you. No clue how bright they'll be - but they can act as gunners and fill roles as needed. If you buy two Pledge ships (maybe the two $45 starters), you unlock a second character slot that you can use to customize an NPC. This is still in the works, and it's expected that you'll be able to eventually unlock these slots without buying entire ships. Since this isn't a "pay to win" or "subscription" game, when the PU hits then everything is open to everyone who buys the game, minus a few perks people got for being early adopters (like lifetime ship insurance).

I expect that a game of this scale with over $80,000,000 and 900,000 purchasers already will have a universe running by itself for years to come - or if you don't like that, you play single player for years - or set up your own server for you and your friends with your favorite mods installed.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:59 am

Paingod wrote:Very very large ships (crews of 10+ people, I think) can't actually log off in the PU and are always at risk of being boarded and captured by other guilds/corporations. It will probably take a phenomenally long time for insurance to replace that if you lose it. The assumption is that a ship that large requires a real life crew and can really only be managed by a big enough corporation that can staff it 24 hours a day in some fashion.

All purchasable ships will be insurable and, honestly, insurance is not really a big deal. CIG has stated repeatedly that cost will be negligible (seriously, a single, in-system cargo run will earn enough credits to pay for that month) as well as being just a very small part of economy. There will also be landing fees, taxes, fuel costs, etc and you never hear anybody bitching about those costs do you? Simply lump insurance along with those and you'll see it's no big deal.

Of the four ships I own, only one of them has LTI and it's the cheapest ship I have.

As for the persistent ships that can't be insured, again, all purchasable ships can be insured. VERY big, persistent ships like a Bengal carrier can be captured and crewed but will not be insurable but that's something that would require a lot of people and coordination to pull off (certain organizations/clans are looking to attempt this) and is such a small part of what this game will offer that the majority of players will never be involved with such an undertaking.

Arkon · Post by **Arkon** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:36 pm

The Rocketman wrote: How much flak would Blizzard get if they told everyone that Hardcore Diablo is the only way to play, but luckily you can buy insurance for your character if you die? Does that even remotely sound like a good idea, or your idea of a fun game? It boggles my mind that they get away with this!

The idea of insurance is basically straight from EVE Online. This isn't a radical new idea.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:44 am

Brian wrote:As for the persistent ships that can't be insured, again, all purchasable ships can be insured. VERY big, persistent ships like a Bengal carrier can be captured and crewed but will not be insurable but that's something that would require a lot of people and coordination to pull off (certain organizations/clans are looking to attempt this) and is such a small part of what this game will offer that the majority of [word redacted to appease the spam-filter gods] will never be involved with such an undertaking.

When -- not if -- a group pulls this off, I foresee an alliance of diverse factions coalescing for the singular purpose of blowing it to smithereens.

Also, the OO spam filter really doesn't like me...

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:52 am

In games like this, say X3, I like to get into a capable fighter and find a blind spot where I can just dig a hole through a massive ship. I really hope that if it's possible to do this, when one carrier is destroyed another will spawn somewhere in the universe to replace it - derelict and waiting to be claimed in some dark, long-forgotten asteroid field.

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:38 am

Something interesting to note was that there was something of a leak of the game, using a pieced together URL, someone was able to access RSI's content server, where they store the code and assets during development. They were able to download a lot of the game as it stands, and using the free version of the CryEngine, pieced it together into a playable state.

And it turns out that the game is currently working exactly as RSI is showing it. So, there is a game, and it is being worked on. Definitely not complete, but it's not just smoke and mirrors.

That said, Mechwarrior Online worked as a game on the basic level, but so far never lived up to its promises of the wider game.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:56 am

Turtle wrote:That said, Mechwarrior Online worked as a game on the basic level, but so far never lived up to its promises of the wider game.

All I cared about was "Big Mechs, Big Combat" and it's had a lot of that, and well done in my opinion. I knew there was a plan for some kind of clan/group metagame but that never interested me. They've sort of got a thrashing grind-fest metagame now where factions can claim territory, but it's pointless as far as I can tell. I'm still happy to stomp around in my Mech and ignore that.

My only concern with Star Citizen is that it might end up as Freelancer + FPS - but even that would be a game worth playing; just not the massive game I'm hoping for. What it needs more than spiffy mechanics and hundreds of hand-crafted worlds is an outstanding story line and compelling events. They should hire up a team of outstanding Sci-Fi writers to get that underway.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:30 am

Paingod wrote:What it needs more than spiffy mechanics and hundreds of hand-crafted worlds is an outstanding story line and compelling events. They should hire up a team of outstanding Sci-Fi writers to get that underway.

Which they are doing with the single player game, Squadron 42. They already have quite a stable of writers on staff working on Sqd 42 as well as content for the online multiplayer portion, Star Citizen.

There's already more lore available than I really care to follow.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:54 pm

Turtle wrote:Something interesting to note was that there was something of a leak of the game, using a pieced together URL, someone was able to access RSI's content server, where they store the code and assets during development. They were able to download a lot of the game as it stands, and using the free version of the CryEngine, pieced it together into a playable state.

And it turns out that the game is currently working exactly as RSI is showing it. So, there is a game, and it is being worked on. Definitely not complete, but it's not just smoke and mirrors.

That said, Mechwarrior Online worked as a game on the basic level, but so far never lived up to its promises of the wider game.

That isn't what I read when the news about the leak first popped up. As I understood it, they got their hands on about 40G of (probably obsolete) assets that they were able to cobble together for viewing in CryEngine. There is a video of the Bengal carrier model that they uploaded to youtube, but I haven't heard anything about them getting any sort game code to go with it (Disclosure: I've not been actively following the story since it originally broke, so there may be subsequent developments of which I am shamefully ignorant). I do not doubt that there is a real game over at RSI, but I don't think the leak technically proved anything other than the existence of the assets themselves.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:37 pm

I believe there's a game there, but I fear it caters to the hardcore guilds who turn a game into a grind. A friend fell into EVE and out of real life. While his exploits with BoB fighting the goons (and the aftermath) are pretty insane, it's basically his second job that devours all other motivation.

If there are grief possibilities, it will happen once you create the atmosphere. Once you start putting that much money into an unfinished game -- there's trouble.

But I am the type of casual player who would be offline for my 3 months insurance, then get fragged the day it expires.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:11 pm

There's no way I could afford or play this game and the time it requires but I am fascinated to read about it.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:15 pm

There will be a single player game attached that won't require the MMO time sink.

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:51 am

Yeah, I think one of the main draws of SC is that you can have some of that madness from EVE, without investing yourself in effectively a second corporate job. If the devs are smart, they'll learn more from modern MMO conveniences rather than trying to compete for the super dedicated players of EVE.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:10 am

Isgrimnur wrote:There will be a single player game attached that won't require the MMO time sink.

Which is the single most awesome thing I love about it. I would probably have sat on the fence and watched, but telling me I could get the "MMO" game as a single-player experience sold it. I'm constantly soloing in MMO's, and always wanted to just run games myself and ditch the other people I had to put up with.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:19 am

I'm all about the solo play myself but also look forward to being able to play along with friends and OOers.

If you ever need a wingman, I'd be happy to make myself available. (I have a Super Hornet and a Freelancer MIS missile boat available for escort duties. Oh, and the new Reliant which I'm considering upgrading to the fighter version when they release the variants.)

Zarathud wrote:But I am the type of casual player who would be offline for my 3 months insurance, then get fragged the day it expires.

People fuss WAY too much about the insurance. Insurance will be renewable for a tiny fraction of the credits you'll be earning in game.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:30 am

Brian wrote:People fuss WAY too much about the insurance. Insurance will be renewable for a tiny fraction of the credits you'll be earning in game.

I tend to agree. They've said over and over that it'll be hugely affordable. It's mostly there as an immersion technique, I think, and not designed to try and screw people out of money or ships.

I think terms I've heard kicked around are "one leg of a trader's haul covers his insurance for 30 days" and "one mission's payout covers 30 days" - and (correct me if I'm wrong), that's 30 days of actual play time, not the hours when you're logged off and out of the game... so 30 days' insurance could end up lasting 4 months if you play 6 hours per day. Even if it does run down while you're offline, as long as you don't log off flat-broke for 2 months and then try to engage in difficult combat missions when you come back, you should be able to afford it after a quick milk run or two.

Is there any news on when the Freelancer's functionality will get some love? Last time I logged in, all the interior panels still had placeholder visuals - non-functional, low-res generic readouts and stuff. I really want to get it out and flying to see how it feels.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:06 am

Paingod wrote:Is there any news on when the Freelancer's functionality will get some love? Last time I logged in, all the interior panels still had placeholder visuals - non-functional, low-res generic readouts and stuff. I really want to get it out and flying to see how it feels.

The Freelancer series got a complete overhaul in preparation for Arena Commander 2.0 which is when they will allow multi-crew ships to fly for the first time. I would expect all the functionality to implemented by that point. AC2.0 is expected sometime this summer.

The greybox for the Freelancer refit was part of the massive asset leak that they had recently. It looks like it's getting a lot bigger. I can't wait to see the new MAX and MIS designs.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:42 pm

They've said over and over that it'll be hugely affordable. It's mostly there as an immersion technique, I think, and not designed to try and screw people out of money or ships.

Now thats the most humorous thing Ive read all day. Insurance as an immersion technique? Lipstick on a pig, pal. Its a money sink pure and simple. Its there with all of the other little costs and fees, to help vacuum away in game money so its more difficult to make game cash ship purchases and encourage people who dont want to grind the game money into spending even more real money. Hell, they have people who have spent hundreds and likely some who have spent over a grand on this game and its still not playable, yet. They are not done reaching into wallets yet. Not by a long shot.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:10 pm

rshetts2 wrote:
They've said over and over that it'll be hugely affordable. It's mostly there as an immersion technique, I think, and not designed to try and screw people out of money or ships.
Now thats the most humorous thing Ive read all day. Insurance as an immersion technique? Lipstick on a pig, pal. Its a money sink pure and simple. Its there with all of the other little costs and fees, to help vacuum away in game money so its more difficult to make game cash ship purchases and encourage people who dont want to grind the game money into spending even more real money. Hell, they have people who have spent hundreds and likely some who have spent over a grand on this game and its still not playable, yet. They are not done reaching into wallets yet. Not by a long shot.

It's a single player game with a Persistent Universe hosted by the developer. You can even run your own server for you and your friends if you want. If the developer offers ships and docking bay towels for sale to support development of new releases, stuff, and DLC - I'm okay with that. I spent $160 on this game and I don't even intend on playing in the Persistent Universe much, except to test it out; I don't actually want to play with other people.

All the cash so far is just to support development - this game didn't start out with financial backing except through the players. It's people buying into it because they believe Chris can deliver, and buying a lot because they really want to have a full stable when they play in the Persistent Universe. I'm completely fine with that. Those people that bought $12,000 in ships have helped me get a better game.

Immersion is also a huge thing to Chris and the developers. Your little avatar's ass is going to dock and board ships, wander around stations and planets, and shuffle cargo by hand. When you get tired of playing in the PU, you get out of the pilot's chair, walk back to the bed, lower it, lay down, and then log off. Spending a pittance on insurance for your ship is another layer of flavoring to that immersion.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:24 pm

Also, CIG has stated (and restated) from the beginning that once the game goes live, they will be shutting down the ability to purchase ships with cash. Ship purchasing as it stands now is strictly for development.

I believe they'll stick to that. You may not but I've already spent my money and have the ships I want so it's likely the only thing I'll probably ever have to spend actual money on in this game in the future will be DLC mission packs for Squadron 42. I'm OK with that.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:46 pm

I hope that changes your opinion somewhat, rshetts2.

One of the reasons I've supported the game, and put $160 into it before I could even play it, was because it's not a classic Pay to Play or MMO venture. I was reluctant to spend $25 on Rift despite logging 70 hours in it already. Maybe I'm nuts, but there's a lot of other crazy people there with me.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:19 pm

Maybe I was a bit harsh on the game but it sure seems like the gaming equivalent of crack right now. People are paying insane amounts of money on ships and they keep on cranking out more ship models and modified designs. I was not aware that they had no plans on selling ships for real money post release, it seemed like this game was being built to micro-transaction you into bankruptcy. Still, if thats true then it just creates a major urgency to buy ships now because they wont be available down the line. I guess Im concerned about a business model where people are spending thousands on virtual property in a game that isnt even finished.
Now regarding the insurance issue, I play games to escape from the minutia of real life and in real life, I hate insurance, it feels like legalized extortion to me. Using insurance as an immersion feature just doesnt work for me. I cant help but seeing it as an annoying money sink. Kind of like in real life.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:34 pm

Ive purchased a Freelancer and a Mustang fighter. I need one more fighter. Not sure Ill have the spare cash for another o0ne but hope to.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:45 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Maybe I was a bit harsh on the game but it sure seems like the gaming equivalent of crack right now. People are paying insane amounts of money on ships and they keep on cranking out more ship models and modified designs. I was not aware that they had no plans on selling ships for real money post release, it seemed like this game was being built to micro-transaction you into bankruptcy. Still, if thats true then it just creates a major urgency to buy ships now because they wont be available down the line. I guess Im concerned about a business model where people are spending thousands on virtual property in a game that isnt even finished.
Now regarding the insurance issue, I play games to escape from the minutia of real life and in real life, I hate insurance, it feels like legalized extortion to me. Using insurance as an immersion feature just doesnt work for me. I cant help but seeing it as an annoying money sink. Kind of like in real life.

I'm definitely in your camp. When I hear "immersion", I think lasers, huge vs tiny ships, massive fleet battles, awesome explosions and superb storyline (like Freespace 1/2). "Paying cash for in-game ships" and "buying insurance" aren't part of that list. Actually, now that I think about it, neither is "managing power levels in individual thrusters".

I did get a "free" copy of the game and some kind of ship when I bought my video card last year, so I'll be happily blasting through the single player campaign and then put the game away (unless it's Freespace good in which case I'll break it out every few years for a replay).

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:45 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Maybe I was a bit harsh on the game but it sure seems like the gaming equivalent of crack right now. People are paying insane amounts of money on ships and they keep on cranking out more ship models and modified designs. I was not aware that they had no plans on selling ships for real money post release, it seemed like this game was being built to micro-transaction you into bankruptcy. Still, if thats true then it just creates a major urgency to buy ships now because they wont be available down the line. I guess Im concerned about a business model where people are spending thousands on virtual property in a game that isnt even finished.
Now regarding the insurance issue, I play games to escape from the minutia of real life and in real life, I hate insurance, it feels like legalized extortion to me. Using insurance as an immersion feature just doesnt work for me. I cant help but seeing it as an annoying money sink. Kind of like in real life.

I imagine that if you wanted to play single player, you could rely strictly on save/load features instead of buying insurance... but in the larger PvP game, there really needs to be some risk associated with combat - not just re-spawning with your ship intact.

The Persistent Universe is supposed to have a meshed player/AI driven economy with multiple interacting layers generating missions (At a basic level, it's something like ships and goods are created in factories using resources which generates trade missions; traders carry goods along routes, generating piracy missions; pirates interrupt trade, generating bounty hunter missions; bounty hunters and pirates need more ships, generating a need for manufacturing).

They are churning out a lot of ships - but those are the ships that will populate the universe and be player & AI driven. Some are "specialty" ships that they want to limit in quantities upon release so there aren't fleets of them around, but everything that can be purchased at any point should be purchasable with in-game currency on release as well, without limitation... There may be a couple "Kickstarter" reward ships that aren't, but those are people who jumped in before this exploded on the internet in such a big way and I can live with them having a special light fighter model.

An interesting thing, to me at least, is that the Single Player game is intended to be released long before the Persistent Universe game. They want a long run to shake out bugs and make sure it's right before dumping in a million players. I wager you'll have every opportunity to fly around in massive ships and test drive a lot of possible things before ever stepping foot in the larger PvP universe.

NickAragua wrote:I did get a "free" copy of the game and some kind of ship when I bought my video card last year, so I'll be happily blasting through the single player campaign and then put the game away (unless it's Freespace good in which case I'll break it out every few years for a replay).

If I'm not mistaken, a free copy of the game will still get you access to the Persistent Universe and PvP opportunities. It won't limit your ability to play at all - just the ship you start with when you jump in there. In the Single Player game, there's a storyline to follow and everyone will probably be starting with a basic fighter, even if they bought a fleet of ships for the PU.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:27 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Now regarding the insurance issue, I play games to escape from the minutia of real life and in real life, I hate insurance, it feels like legalized extortion to me. Using insurance as an immersion feature just doesnt work for me. I cant help but seeing it as an annoying money sink. Kind of like in real life.

Paingod wrote:I imagine that if you wanted to play single player, you could rely strictly on save/load features instead of buying insurance... but in the larger PvP game, there really needs to be some risk associated with combat - not just re-spawning with your ship intact.

Which brings up a point I meant to make earlier. The insurance isn't just a money sink but also a mechanic to prevent griefing. There was a worry that many people saw insurance as sort of a, "hey, I get a brand new ship if I destroy mine so why not just ram people to get kills and then, boom, new ship!"

To curb that, the insurance program will note the circumstance under which a ship was destroyed and how often so if it develops that a person is repeatedly destroying ships in collisions, then the insurance will take longer and longer to deliver a replacement vehicle.

Not a perfect system but as a tool to inhibit griefing, it's nice to have implemented.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:05 pm

As long as I'm on this topic....

I am really looking forward to this game, obviously, but it's very much not the game I really want.

I love the setting, I love the idea, I love the free-form adventure (Persistent Universe) coupled with a distinctive storyline (Squadron 42).... but what I hate is about 99% of the online community.

The original Wing Commander: Privateer is my all time favorite game so naturally I was excited when I heard about Star Citizen. I was decidedly less enthused when I heard that it would be an online game (with the exception of Squadron 42). I was really hoping for Privateer on a much grander, galactic scale that had a narrative storyline that could be ignored or followed as much or as little as I desired while still having hundreds (thousands?) of sidequests available. Sorta like Skyrim in space I guess.

Star Citizen/Squadron 42 is close to that and in many ways so very much more but .... ugh, people. I'd really rather not have to deal with them.

The developers have stated a desire to have a PvP - PvE slider that will limit but not eliminate the number of encounters with actual players and you better believe mine will be all the way over on the PvE side. They've also promised the ability to host your own galaxy server but that it will likely be very limited and won't dynamically update the economy or discoveries made from the online servers but lately it sounds like they might be backing away from the private server idea.

Bah, I'm rambling like the old man I've become.

Anyway, I look forward to this game and hope that I am able to get my $XXX.XX dollars worth of enjoyment out of it. I suspect I will and, despite my assertions that the online community can by and large go fuck itself, I look forward to flying alongside my fellow OOers who might also be participating.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:32 pm

On the whole, I agree. People ruin everything.

I have tried, a few times, to get into playing with other people, but find that they just irritate me and ruin things even when they're just being themselves. Even when I'm not being irritated, I feel like I'm obligated to spend time with guild mates instead of just being off on my own when I want to be, and I'm not into arbitrary obligation. So - I'm an internet hermit now, playing MMO's in a world with other people and pretending they're all just little AI drones. Especially the ones that just /dance everywhere.

I also plan on setting the PvP/PvE slider as firmly and permanently into PvE as it'll allow. I only hope that the game doesn't skew or mismatch people too horribly when they do bump into me. It'll be a sack full of "Nope" if I'm routinely accosted by pirates with 392 kills and 12 losses in a completely amazing ship while I'm trundling around in my Freelancer DUR and have 2 kills with 43 losses.

Mr Bismarck · Post by **Mr Bismarck** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:16 pm

Derek Smart Derek Smart Derek Smart.