Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

[Cylus Maxii]

The ships that were limited offerings - are they slated to come back at some point?

With the exception of the captured alien ships - I think they are all supposed to be available in the game. I'm guessing that you could buy almost any ship/variant and just sell it off for in-game money to buy a different ship/variant. I figure any pre-purchase ship is just in-game money when it comes down to it.

[Jag]

Just paid for my Aurora MR +

[hentzau]

My biggest concern right now are the specs on my 3 year old laptop and if they could actually keep up with this thing.

[Cylus Maxii]

Just paid for my Aurora MR +

Maybe I should buy-in at that level just to get the game cheaper than it will be on release... Its just hard to pull the trigger on a game that won't release for 2 years.

[Jag]

Just paid for my Aurora MR +

Maybe I should buy-in at that level just to get the game cheaper than it will be on release... Its just hard to pull the trigger on a game that won't release for 2 years.

That was kind of my thinking. Plus when the buzz about the beta starts, I know it will bug me if I can't try it.

[Turtle]

So, what's the biggest ship you can currently buy?

I may have a new job, in the industry no less, and if I land it, I'm going to have some fun.

[Arkon]

If you go through a backer such as myself, the biggest would be the Constellation Package at $275, which includes:

• Starting Money:10,000 UEC
  6 Month Insurance
  Deluxe Silver Collector's Box
  Spaceship-shaped USB Drive
  CD of Game Soundtrack
  Glossy Fold-up Star Map
  5 Spaceship Blueprints
  3 Inch Model of Spaceship
  Hardback Making-of Star Citizen
  Beta Access
  Digital Star Citizen Manual
  Squadron 42 Digital Download
  Star Citizen Digital Download

[Brian]

[Edit] Thought I should clear up one thing. There are two price points for ships. The first price point is for a pledge package that not only includes the ship but also includes the full game(s) and access to the Alpha and Beta testing, as well as goodies such as the maps, soundtracks, etc which are further broken down into digital and physical.

Ships are also available for purchase individually but don't come with anything beyond the ship itself and are intended for players that have already picked up a pledge package and want to buy additional ships for that account.

You can see the difference here:

RSI Constellation Game Package - $275
RSI Constellation Only - $225

All prices I list below are for the pledge packages that come with game access.[Edit]

There is speculation that many of the ships which were offered for only a limited time may become available again before the alpha is officially released so the below may change.

Also note, when listing crew sizes, crew slots can be filled with online friends or NPCs as needed.

The biggest individual ship that you could buy was the Idris Corvette which, during development, grew so large they reclassified it as a Frigate.

There are two models, the -M which is the militarized version and the -P which is the patrol version. They each require a require a crew of ten and are essentially the same except the -M has the spinal mounted anti-ship rail gun where the -P doesn't.

However, they were only available in limited quantities and aren't currently available for sale individually at the moment.

You can still get an Idris-P if you buy a multi-ship package like the War Pack for $5000 or The Completionist package for a whopping $15000 which nets you a total of fourteen different ships.

More realistically, the MISC Starfarer is a 90M, two crew heavy transport ship but it's lightly armed and a huge target.

The Starfarer is currently unavailable at this time except, as noted above, in multi-ship packages.

The most popular, larger craft is the RSI Constellation which has a crew of four and is a well armed, versatile cargo/exploration/gunship type of craft. It is currently available for $275.

There is also the Banu Merchantman and Drake Caterpillar but again, they were only offered for a limited time and are not currently available.

Finally, the smallest of the bigger ships is the MISC Freelancer. This is the one I own. With a two man crew it is about the closest feeling to owning the Millenium Falcon you can get as it's a smaller cargo/exploration/smuggling ship that also happens to be heavily armed. Sporting the largest available guns for a ship of it's size and a turret in the rear to discourage ne'er do wells, this fast cargo ship is perfect for solo players like me. There are also variants being released soon that will fine tune this ship into a more exploration focused ship, give it a bigger cargo capacity, or turn it into a heavily armed missile boat.

The Freelancer is available in a digital only package for $125 or a physical goods package for $140.

I originally bought the digital package but later upgraded it to the physical goods because I wanted the fold-out star map and the spaceship USB drive.

Hope that helps. I'm happy to discuss other options all day long if you wish.

[Brian]

If you go through a backer such as myself, the biggest would be the Constellation Package at $275,

You don't have to go through a backer to get a Constellation. Just go to the webpage and buy one directly from the Pledge Store.

The only reason to buy from a backer would be if he were selling a ship from prior to November of last year as all early pledge ships came with lifetime warranty which is no longer available. Or to buy a ship that is not currently available such as a Starfarer or Caterpillar. Of course, the seller would already have to own this ship to sell it. It's not like they could buy one of the limited ships now and then sell it to you.

Keep in mind too, that the lifetime warranty isn't really that great of a deal as it only warranties the original hull purchase. Any upgrades such as new guns, modular upgrades, better armor, etc would not be covered or rather, would be covered under additional insurance.

Regarding insurance, Chris Roberts has said that the ongoing cost of ship insurance will be negligible anyway.

[Paingod]

I wish I knew what the stats really mean, comparing them on the site.

I looked over the ships and picked the Origin 315p because it looks like it should be one of the fastest purchasable ships, but I really can't tell. I might be able to dribble enough into this game to get to the Freelancer if I thought it would work for how I play, but I'm not overly interested in trade - mostly exploring, PvE, and avoiding getting killed.

What kind of thrust does a TR5 engine generate vs. TR4? What about the TR1 manuevering thrusters vs. TR2?

To me, the Freelancer looks like a nice comfy ride, but might handle like a cow in combat compared to the 315p. The differences I can't grasp could change that entirely.

Compare - Origin 315p / Freelancer

Weight: 23,000Kg / 55,000Kg
Cargo: 8t / 20t
Thruster: 1xTR4 / 2xTR5
Manuever: 12xTR1 / 8xTR2

Direct extrapolation would mean that the Freelancer is 4% faster in open space (empty, not full) and the 315p would handle 56% better in combat. So what does that mean - is it accurate? It seems like he's really pulling strongly from Freelancer when it comes to ship design and spec..

That was interested me in the 350r - the open space speed should be phenomenal - easily outrunning unwanted PvP. It's 2xTR3 engines with a weight of 17,000 should mean it's 51% faster in open space than an empty Freelancer.

[Brian]

Yeah, that's the thing about the stats, since this is still in pre-alpha stage, they change. A lot.
Also, nobody knows the specs of individual things like thrusters, engines, shields, etc so it's tough to make decisions based on those alone.

Making things worse, the stats page is way out of date and holds many inaccuracies.

For example, the 315P is designed as a one man exploration ship so is fast, lightly armed, but contains a small cargo hold and better sensor suites than the standard 300i.

However, the 350R and the M50 are designed to be racers so the M50 should be the fastest ship in the game.

The Freelancer also makes for a decent exploration ship (and even has a variant dedicated to that) but is bigger and possibly slower but also more heavily armed and with more cargo capacity than the 315P.

Don't forget too that mass will also play a role in-game so a fully cargo loaded Freelancer would be carrying a lot more mass than the 315.

My recommendation, such as it is, is to simply look at the intended role of each ship and pick one that most closely matches what you want to do in game.

[Holman]

I haven't bought in yet, although I really want to.

If I buy a ship soon, then "melt it down" for credit before the game is released, is there any loss of value? Or will a $40 ship count for $40 towards a more expensive one?

[Brian]

Melt a $40 package, get a $40 store credit.

Bust a deal, face the wheel.

[Daehawk]

Ok kick me in the ass now..I've decided to pledge. Ill be getting the Aurora Legionnaire next month. Ill be sure to paint a bulls eye on it.

[Brian]

Or you could shoot me a PM and hope to win the Aurora package I'm giving away tomorrow.

[Holman]

Also note, when listing crew sizes, crew slots can be filled with online friends or NPCs as needed.

Do NPC crewmembers come free, or do you have to buy them / pay them a salary?

[Brian]

Also note, when listing crew sizes, crew slots can be filled with online friends or NPCs as needed.

Do NPC crewmembers come free, or do you have to buy them / pay them a salary?

It depends.

You can hire NPCs and you will have to pay them a salary. The better qualified NPC pilots/gunners/etc will naturally cost more than Joe Schlub off the street.

However, if you have more than one character slot (currently, the only way to buy additional character slots is to buy another ship package [not just a single ship but an actual game package] but there are plans to eventually sell individual character slots as well) then you can use them as crew members or they can pilot escort ships.

For example, I bought two ship packages (Freelancer + and an Origin 325A) so I have two character slots. I also have a handful of individual Auroras (as well as an Aurora MR+ package that I'll give away tomorrow) but those are destined to be melted down for credit so I can buy the Freelancer MAX variant when it becomes available.

So the plan is that I will pilot the Freelancer along with a hired NPC as copilot/gunner. My second character slot/NPC will pilot the 325A as an escort.

Currently, it has not been specified if you will have to pay a salary to your secondary character if you use them as an NPC.

On one hand, it makes sense since you are "hiring" them to go along with you but then you are also essentially paying yourself.

[Paingod]

Even knowing there are inaccuracies, I can't help but ogle the ship specs and think of what's planned for them.

Given how heavily he's borrowed from it, I'd wager that, like Freelancer, there's a "max speed" for everything and your engines determine your efficiency in getting to that speed.

I'll start with the 315p package, and wish for other things, maybe getting them. The Cutlass, by its (outdated) stats should be an outstanding fighter that's more capable of exploration than the 315p is and can pack a second person into it - which I imagine will help with boarding other ships.

When the next phase hits and people are allowed to take their ships out of the hangar and into dogfights, having an explorer class ship probably won't be all too awesome.

[Cylus Maxii]

My only concern about the game at this time is the emphasis on "real" physics in the flight/combat model. I don't know if they mean full-on Newtonian physics with full inertia or if they mean that a ship will handle differently as its damaged or with different loading. I imagine, since its done by Chris Roberts who did Starlancer, Freelancer, Privateer, and Wing Commander, that it will have similar low-inertia flight type and I will like it.

FWIW I didn't enjoy the full physics Newtonian models of some other games (e.g. Independence War, Evochron) and subsequently abandoned them. I'd hate to invest much in this game before the dog fighting module comes out and I can read about how it plays and feels.

[Brian]

I'd wager that, like Freelancer, there's a "max speed" for everything and your engines determine your efficiency in getting to that speed.

Correct. There will be a max speed and a "cruise" speed. Cruise speed or "Warp" as some people call it, will be when you are in autopilot mode and I'd have to dig but I think they've set .2 or .3 of the speed of light.

Not sure what the max speed out of autopilot will be.

They have said that it should take you about half an hour, real time, to fly from one side of the solar system to another.

A lot of that is still being worked on so it's largely speculative at this point.

When the next phase hits and people are allowed to take their ships out of the hangar and into dogfights, having an explorer class ship probably won't be all too awesome.

The first stage of the dogfighting module is due out in a couple of weeks. It will allow you to fly a single seat fighter in combat. They plan on several modes including multiplayer.

Later they will add the multi-crew ships like the Freelancer and Constellation.

[Brian]

My only concern about the game at this time is the emphasis on "real" physics in the flight/combat model. I don't know if they mean full-on Newtonian physics with full inertia or if they mean that a ship will handle differently as its damaged or with different loading. I imagine, since its done by Chris Roberts who did Starlancer, Freelancer, Privateer, and Wing Commander, that it will have similar low-inertia flight type and I will like it.

FWIW I didn't enjoy the full physics Newtonian models of some other games (e.g. Independence War, Evochron) and subsequently abandoned them. I'd hate to invest much in this game before the dog fighting module comes out and I can read about how it plays and feels.

Yeah, they mean physics as in g-forces causing blackout/redout and mass having a bearing on maneuverability but not as in Newtonian physics flight models.

Check out the this edited video from their reveal last week at Pax East. It shows off the flight model pretty well.

Plus it's fun to watch Chris Roberts crash his hornet right after leaving the hangar.

[Paingod]

I like the engine-cut slide. That was a favorite move of mine in Freelancer. Use the travel drive to get up to speed, kill my engines, and then coast at high speed into combat.

[coopasonic]

I am trying to imagine space combat using the Kerbal Physics. It would be hilarious... until it got boring.

[Turtle]

Of course, I do wonder why they don't put in inertial dampeners to help in those situations. Perhaps quality inertial dampeners will be another module, or trade off, when customizing your ships. Pull more Gs, but lose out on other stuff.

[Baroquen]

I was intrigued enough by Brian's offer to log into the RSI page to see what I had in my hangar. Turns out, I have pretty much what he's offering, so that's cool. I won't put my name in the drawing, and let some other OOer win Brian's generous offer.

This thread, and hearing you all talk, made the game seem much more interesting than I remember the KS being. That said, I still can't imagine dropping hundred(s) of dollars on virtual ships. Crazy.

So I was digging around the pledge store... what's the difference in hangars? Purely cosmetic?

[Brian]

what's the difference in hangars? Purely cosmetic?

Not entirely cosmetic. For example, Discount Hangar won't fit ships bigger than a Cutlass, Business Hangar maxes out with Freelancer sized ships, Deluxe Hangar will hold up to a Constellation, and the Asteroid Hangar will hold larger ships like the Caterpillar.

Some ships like the Idris and Starfarer won't fit in any of the hangars and will either land on a landing pad or dock with space stations.

The cool thing is that the hangars are modular so that as you add ships the hangars increase to allow for the additional ships. There will eventually be things like modular rooms that can be added to the hangar system to allow for living quarters, kitchens, etc.

[Paingod]

So if I keep buying ships, I'll end up with a minigame in itself, just crossing the hangar... or are you allowed just one ship at a time?

[Brian]

There's a YouTube video of a guy who owns more than fifty ships.

It takes him ten minutes to walk from one end of the hangar to the other.

I tried to find it to link it but there are so many videos out there.

Here's a video that shows the Freelancer and 325A which are the ships I own.

Note: This is not my hangar.

Note 2: This is from an older version of the hangar. The Freelancer cargo door/loading ramp no longer is at such a steep angle.

[Brian]

I've read that there's a plan for non-consensual PvP anywhere in the game, which makes me nervous. No matter how harsh the penalties, there will be groups devoted to be as brutal and horrible to other players as possible, and the only thing that will slow them down are equally large groups of people working together. I'm a very independent player and don't want to feel compelled to join a guild/corp/gang just to play 'freely'... all that said, though, it might simply mean my play is restricted to my own server and the single-player campaign.

I meant to address this earlier and then it fell off of my radar.

They plan on implementing a PVP slider and instancing system.

Say you are flying around the 'verse and you encounter another ship (or ships). The server will create an "instance" that will include you, the other ship, and the possibility of additional ships up to an as yet undetermined number.

The PVP slider will determine the likelyhood of each "instance" being populated by other players or by bots/NPCs. If you have your slider all the over to the PVE side, you will most likely be seeing bots in your instance. If you go the other way, it will most likely by an actual player. If you have the slider in the middle, it could go either way.

Naturally, if you have hired escorts or are grouped with other human players, they too will be part of your instance.

They've said the slider will never be a 100% guarantee to even with PVE all the way over you still might run into a human player every now and then.

None of this had been finalized or implemented yet so it's still very much in the air but hopefully I've explained it well enough to get the general idea.

[Cylus Maxii]

So if I keep buying ships, I'll end up with a minigame in itself, just crossing the hangar... or are you allowed just one ship at a time?

Actually - they sell a little golf cart buggy as an add-on. (seriously)

[Cylus Maxii]

They've said the slider will never be a 100% guarantee to even with PVE all the way over you still might run into a human player every now and then.

But that doesn't mean it will be a hostile player, does it? It could just as easily be another PvE type. You know, an opportunity to hail them and say "hi" then move along..

[Paingod]

The way it sounds is that when you get dropped into an instance with another player, it's with the intent of combat. They might be playing as a pirate, and you're a merchant ... or you're a merc working for a guild protecting a cargo ship and they're in an opposing guild.

It also sounds like the most lucrative areas are also the most hazardous - and will push back your "PvP Slider" to a point where you're always going to get dropped into combat with other players.

So it's somewhere between Freelancer and EVE, but not as bad as EVE's total free-for-all in 0.0 space.

Apparently Squadron 42 will also include a system where players can jump in or out of your single player game and act as "Elite" NPC's - or bosses for missions, essentially.

[Brian]

They've said the slider will never be a 100% guarantee to even with PVE all the way over you still might run into a human player every now and then.

But that doesn't mean it will be a hostile player, does it? It could just as easily be another PvE type. You know, an opportunity to hail them and say "hi" then move along..

Absolutely correct.

[Brian]

They are officially sold out of Alpha slots now so if you didn't pledge before today then you won't be able to get into the alpha for Squadron 42 and the persistent universe.

That is unless you win the Aurora package I'm giving away tomorrow so if you haven't already sent me a request, you'd better do it before tomorrow.

You can still buy an Arena Pass that will allow you to participate in the dogfighting module that will be out soon.

[Paingod]

Well shit.

I'm not overly worried about getting into the Alpha, but I had no idea the timeframe was so narrow. This game only hit my radar hard in the last week - I had seen it before, but figured "It's just another kickstarter, just wait it out" - I had no idea it would explode with such force or look so awesome.

[Daehawk]

I also had no idea the alpha close would be so fast. Last I heard there was 1200 left so figured next month was fine to wait until.

[wonderpug]

Narrow? So fast? This has been going on since 2012!!

[Paingod]

Well, narrow to me - I heard about this before but assumed it was "just another kickstarter" and I really don't devote much attention to those since I've more or less stopped buying into games before they're released - unless they catch my attention in a big way. For some reason, this game didn't until last week.

At any rate, I'll be buying in - just not to the alpha. I'm mostly worried about burning myself out on Beta play - I've had too many games get dull for me before they even finished. I haven't been back to MechWarrior Online since they had introduced the Highlander and it wasn't due to any dislike for the players or game, I was just burned out on it. I've got 4 Founders Mechs there...

My wife actually expected me to throw hundreds of dollars at this game given how excited I was about it when I finally started looking into it. She seemed surprised I was only planning on pledging $75.

[Brian]

My wife actually expected me to throw hundreds of dollars at this game given how excited I was about it when I finally started looking into it. She seemed surprised I was only planning on pledging $75.

I'm not even going to go in to how much I've spent over the last six months.

But I will say that it's a factor of about six beyond what you are quoting.

[Arkon]

Hah, I am in for over $1000.