Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

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Daehawk
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Daehawk » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:48 pm

If I had the cash id sue them. Really. i usually hate frivolous lawsuits but damn this pisses me off. Other companies make a game with 30 people, 2-3 years, and maybe 10 million....this guy gets over 100 million, 4 years, 350+ people worldwide and has a few demos that only devs play at cons, videos, and a playable dogfight that is pretty sketchy in feel. Bullshit. Now he cans half the game and the half I wanted. I want to sue them.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Zarathud » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:06 pm

You can't sell fake spaceships in single player. This whole game stinks of development fantasy. You're supposed to get a base game out, then expand it.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by NickAragua » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:23 pm

Thank the lord I didn't buy into this god damned boondoggle, only got a copy with a video card I bought. The second they started selling fake spaceships for a non-existent game, my bullshit sense went off. Seems that Derek Smart was right after all. Well, sometimes, even the sun shines on a dog's ass.

Now I can just play Descent: Freespace instead.

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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Daehawk » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:29 pm

Now I can just play Descent: Freespace instead.
Two of my favorite games ever. And good expansion packs too. Cant count how many times Ive played them. the last time I used mods and my God it was beautiful. Ive asked them about a FS3 but was told someone else owns the rights but they'd love to do it...that was Volition.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by NickAragua » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:35 pm

Daehawk wrote:
Now I can just play Descent: Freespace instead.
Two of my favorite games ever. And good expansion packs too. Cant count how many times Ive played them. the last time I used mods and my God it was beautiful. Ive asked them about a FS3 but was told someone else owns the rights but they'd love to do it...that was Volition.
Yeah, I usually make it a habit of firing up the latest build of Freespace Open with all the high res resources and such every couple of years. Silent Threat: Reborn is also a great remake of the fairly mediocre Silent Threat campaign, pretty professional quality of writing and level design (unlike the original, where it looked like it was just a couple random maps slapped together).

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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Zarathud » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:37 pm

I used to help run the primary FreeSpace community and mission website in the 90s. I was even asked to help out mission design for Silent Threat and received an advance viewing of FreeSpace 2 (with Summoner and what became Red Faction). If you have the Space Sim of the Year edition, I designed 2 missions -- a single player mission and a multiplayer mission. The FreeSpace mission editor was pretty slick.

Silent Threat and FreeSpace 2 were built on spec with low budgets and tight deadlines for Interplay to keep the doors open. It was clear Interplay ran out of money to market FreeSpace 2, and they even settled with a cash payment. Volition had the firm rights to do the sequel, and it isn't happening.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by killbot737 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:35 pm

As of now, you can still add the single player "pledge" to your cart. I don't know if you can actually pay for it because every time I log into their site I forget the password. Because there is NO FUCKING GAME TO PLAY.

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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Max Peck » Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:46 pm

Enlarge Image

Star Citizen’s production schedule made public
The makers of Star Citizen will make their production schedule public in a show of transparency, four years into a $131 million, crowdfunded project which shows no signs of a completion date, much less one by the end of this year.

In a lengthy note to donors, Cloud Imperium Games founder Chris Roberts said the schedule for Star Citizen Alpha 2.6 will be shared on a weekly basis with the public. This page breaks out production schedules for the Star Marine and Arena Commander modules; the technology/systems, content and UI teams, and the Mega Map stretch goal, with bullet-point notes on where they stand.

Notably, the production schedule for Squadron 42, the single-player campaign, is not among them. That long anticipated module, originally expected in the fall of 2015, was not even shown at CitizenCon in October. There is no timeline on when the campaign, which stars Mark Hamill and Gillian Anderson, will be shown or made available to backers.

"As you know we’ve not been keen to give hard dates on the project after the initial set of dates which we had estimated when the project was a lot smaller in scope," Roberts wrote. He insisted that any dates he'd given for the completion of a module or the release of a beta were rough guidelines only, "but unfortunately some people often tend to forget the qualifiers and treated my comments nonetheless as a promise."
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by dbt1949 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:20 am

I wonder how many people who have bought this will die of natural causes waiting for this to finish.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Max Peck » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:43 am

This should sort things out...
Star Citizen, the spiritual successor to the Wing Commander franchise and the single largest crowdfunding effort of any kind, has announced it will be using a new game engine going forward.

In a press release issued today, the team at Roberts Space Industries announced they would be moving on from Crytek’s CryEngine in favor of Amazon’s Lumberyard. That means they’ve spent a significant amount of time effectively gutting their game, which is not yet finished, in order to make that transition possible.

“We’ve been working with Amazon for more than a year, as we have been looking for a technology leader to partner with for the long term future of Star Citizen and Squadron 42,” said the game’s creative lead and studio head Chris Roberts. “Lumberyard provides groundbreaking technology features for online games. Because we share a common technical vision, it has been a very smooth and easy transition to Lumberyard.”

The news comes on the heels of an announcement by Crytek that it would be shuttering five of its international studios in favor of reorganizing around its core technologies. CryEngine is central to that effort, and represents a significant portion of the studio’s income.

Reached for comment at the time, Roberts said that closure would have no effect on the work on Star Citizen.

Star Citizen’s latest update, referred to as the “2.6 Alpha” in today’s press release, will run on Lumberyard. Polygon has reached out to the team at Amazon for more information on the game engine, which is currently still in beta. It is based on CryEngine, and has been used internally by Amazon studios for some time.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by killbot737 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:28 pm

Yeah changing game engines late in the dev process is no big thing, it's fine. It's all fine. :ninja: :whistle:
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Daehawk » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:25 pm

No shades of Duke Nukem Forever at all.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by NickAragua » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:49 pm

Max Peck wrote:Enlarge Image
I wonder what Baghdad Bob is up to nowadays?

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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by dbt1949 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:59 pm

He drives a cab in Jersey.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Isgrimnur » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:37 pm

He lives in the UAE.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Skinypupy » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:41 am

Every time I start to get tempted by this game, I start reading about what a massive clusterfuck it all is, and it keeps my wallet in my pocket.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Paingod » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:06 am

Skinypupy wrote:Every time I start to get tempted by this game, I start reading about what a massive clusterfuck it all is, and it keeps my wallet in my pocket.
Anytime I'm tempted by "Early Release" I remember the $160 I dropped on a ship in this game and my wallet runs in terror.

And "Lumberyard", Amazon? Really? In a world where we have C#, Java, Python, Unity, CryEngine, and many other cool names, they bust out "Lumberyard" - a term reminiscent of large trucks trundling through mud to haul pallets of wood from point A to B. Inspiring.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by KDH » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:15 pm

.
:coffee: .. Star Citizen Swapping DX12 for Vulkan


the question:
hyper.aN | hyper159 said:
[source]

I would love to know why DirectX and Vulkan are still an option for multiplatform games?
When SC is ready to be ported over to Linux would it not be easier if you would already use Vulkan on Windows and do not even bother implementing DirectX 12. .... You would not spent resources fixing or implementing DX rendering stuff.

the answer: (Alistair Brown, Cloud Imperium)
Hi hyper159,

Years ago we stated our intention to support DX12, but since the introduction of Vulkan which has the same feature set and performance advantages this seemed a much more logical rendering API to use as it doesn't force our users to upgrade to Windows 10 and opens the door for a single graphics API that could be used on all Windows 7, 8, 10 & Linux. As a result our current intention is to only support Vulkan and eventually drop support for DX11 as this shouldn't effect any of our backers. DX12 would only be considered if we found it gave us a specific and substantial advantage over Vulkan. The API's really aren't that different though, 95% of the work for these APIs is to change the paradigm of the rendering pipeline, which is the same for both APIs.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by killbot737 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:43 pm

First of all - "affect". Grammar. Lernd it. Also, wtf?

This enedavor is (turning into) a shitshow.

Where is Squadron 42 you dickbags?
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by NickAragua » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:27 am

KDH wrote:
Hi hyper159,

Years ago we stated our intention to support DX12, but since the introduction of Vulkan which has the same feature set and performance advantages this seemed a much more logical rendering API to use as it doesn't force our users to upgrade to Windows 10 and opens the door for a single graphics API that could be used on all Windows 7, 8, 10 & Linux. As a result our current intention is to only support Vulkan and eventually drop support for DX11 as this shouldn't effect any of our backers. DX12 would only be considered if we found it gave us a specific and substantial advantage over Vulkan. The API's really aren't that different though, 95% of the work for these APIs is to change the paradigm of the rendering pipeline, which is the same for both APIs.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by KDH » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:10 am

.

:coffee: Without reference to delays, Roberts Space Industries announces:
Year 5 Subscriber Perks Update!
Greetings Citizens,

We are kicking off the Year Five of the Star Citizen development subscriber program! Becoming a subscriber gives you access to exclusive perks. Each month you can look forward to a new behind-the-scenes issue of our digital magazine Jump Point and a piece of digital flair to decorate your hangar with, as well as the ability to test fly different loaner ships like the Starfarer, Gladius and Sabre. Subscribers also receive merchandise discounts, coupons (after every 12 months of accumulated subscription time) and access to exclusive digital sales, as well as the chance to submit questions for our shows!

Additionally, if you become a subscriber before April 17th, you’ll receive a special piece of bonus flair; a Big Benny's vending machine to decorate your hangar with! This flair will be distributed to all active subscribers on April 18, 2017.
Enlarge Image Grab! Eat!
Due to popular demand, we’ll also be offering a physical edition of Jump Point Volume 3 in the coming months. Subscribers will be the first to have a chance to purchase this at exclusive discounted price. If you’re a subscriber, keep an eye on the Den for additional updates on this in the near future.


If I'm not mistaken ... Freelancer was the last game Mr. Roberts had a hand in, and that was in development for almost 5 years and pushed out by Microsoft .. "we don't own this base, but we know those that do"
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by KDH » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:04 pm

.
:coffee: Huge Crowdfunded Project ‘Star Citizen’ Gets Negative Articles Scrubbed From Web

a bit:
Star Citizen is possibly the most ambitious game ever not made. The expansive project promises an interplanetary massive multiplayer online experience, a first- person shooter and a single player campaign with the A-list star power of Gary Oldman and Mark Hamill. It has crowdfunded a record smashing $145 million and promises an unparalleled space simulator gaming experience.

That is, if it ever comes out. Star Citizen has been in development by Cloud Imperium Games since 2011, promising empty release dates since 2014. Every year it seems like new features are promised, yet not much is actually delivered. The game in a basic form is available now to its highly enthusiastic backers, who can purchase space ships through donations. The full package of every ship costs $15,000 and some people have actually ponied this up.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Daehawk » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:08 am

I think it will eventually come out but it wont near meet expectations of donators. And this stuff they keep selling to people really pisses me off.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Max Peck » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:22 am

If you tunnel through that article to Derek Smart's blog, it looks like he's going on about some sort of possible money laundering activity now.

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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Paingod » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:17 pm

Max Peck wrote:If you tunnel through that article to Derek Smart's blog, it looks like he's going on about some sort of possible money laundering activity now.
I don't put much weight into anything he says. I think the more reasonable thing to say is "Gorram Poorly Managed"

I just got an exciting announcement that a new ship chassis is going live for testing. A whole new chassis. I would have thought ships would be far beyond the testing phase by now, with all of them ready to fly. I haven't been following development closely, to avoid wanting to smash my head against a wall.

One site suggested development is slated to continue to a "4.0" release around the end of 2017. We'll see.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by KDH » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:20 pm

...
:tjg: ... DerekSmart.com ... Star Citizen – Final Countdown

<one\tenth>
June 24, 2017
THE STAR CITIZEN PROJECT IS IN FINANCIAL TROUBLE

After raising over $150 million in crowd-funding, plus unknown investor amounts and bank loans, on June 13th, 2017, CIG/RSI took out a high-risk loan secured by all the assets backers had poured money into, over a five year period.

As I have reported in the past, for some time now sources have informed me that the project was in financial straits. Despite denials from some in the toxic backer community, and silence from CIG/RSI – even though they had pledged to provide financials to backers – their recent 2016 financials filing in the UK, had some curious entries which served to support this notion.

But before I get into that, I want to point out that as far back as 2015 when various sources (past and present), informed myself and indeed various news (e.g. The Escapist, Kotaku UK etc) outlets of the project’s financial problems, they were estimated to have roughly 90 days worth of funding. As with anything related to analysis, that’s the info that was available at the time. However, since that time (and you can see this from the funding metrics), a set of whales clearly stuck in “Sunk Cost Fallacy” – as well as those who are using the project as a money laundromat – have been steadily putting money into the project in order to prop it up. This despite the fact that, by all accounts, the project is now a complete failure, and stands zero chance of ever being completed, let alone as was pitched back in Nov 2012. As I wrote in both my Oct 2016 Shattered Dreams and Dec 2016 Irreconcilable Differences blogs, following blatant lies from Chris Roberts at both GameCom 2016 and CitizenCon 2016, the signs were already there – in plain view. But only if you were paying attention.
Spoiler:
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Isgrimnur » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:46 pm

At least the sideshow has provided hours of entertainment.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Max Peck » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:24 pm

Heh, back in 2012 who could have predicted that the real game would be a non-interactive Derek Smart production. :)

:pop:
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by dbt1949 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:06 pm

He does seem to have a hard on for these people.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by KDH » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:53 pm

:pop: ... RSVP

robertsspaceindustries.com - response
We have noticed the speculations created by a posting on the website of UK’s Company House with respect to Coutt’s security for our UK Tax Rebate advance, and we would like to provide you with the following insight to help prevent some of the misinformation we have seen.

Our UK companies are entitled to a Government Game tax credit rebate which we earn every month on the Squadron 42 development. These rebates are payable by the UK Government in the fall of the next following year when we file our tax returns. Foundry 42 and its parent company Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd. have elected to partner with Coutts, a highly regarded, very selective, and specialized UK banking institution, to obtain a regular advance against this rebate, which will allow us to avoid converting unnecessarily other currencies into GBP. We obviously incur a significant part of our expenditures in GBP while our collections are mostly in USD and EUR. Given today's low interest rates versus the ongoing and uncertain currency fluctuations, this is simply a smart money management move, which we implemented upon recommendation of our financial advisors.

The collateral granted in connection with this discounting loan is absolutely standard and pertains to our UK operation only, which develops Squadron 42. As a careful review of the security will show and contrary to some irresponsible and misleading reports, the collateral specifically excludes “Star Citizen.” The UK Government rebate entitlement, which is audited and certified by our outside auditors on a quarterly basis, is the prime collateral. Per standard procedure in banking, our UK companies of course stand behind the loan and guarantee repayment which, however, given the reliability of the discounted asset (a UK Government payment) is a formality and nothing else. This security does not affect our UK companies’ ownership and control of their assets. Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment, and even then the UK companies have ample assets to repay the loan, even in such an eventuality which is of course unthinkable.

This should clarify the matter. Thank you.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Zarathud » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:31 pm

Yes, it does. They will continue developing the game so long as government handouts continue.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Max Peck » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:47 am

This sort of thing is why I'd never be able to be a mover-and-shaker in the game development industry. It would never make sense to me to borrow (and pay interest on) money that I didn't need in order to make use of money that I'd be receiving next year. Well, unless I wasn't sure I'd be in business next year, maybe, in which case why not burn the bank's/government's money instead of my own.

Heck, I wouldn't even think to create 15(?) different companies just to make one game.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Daehawk » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:02 pm

Not being a dev or publisher I would have expected this game to need 10 million and be done in 4 years. I don't think any game ever has needed 100s and 100s of employees, taken over 5 years, and cost 150 million+. I mean how do they ever expect to make near that back?

I think it was Wing Commander 3 or 4 that I read cost 1 million to make and I thought that was crazy money at the time.
Last edited by Daehawk on Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by dbt1949 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:14 pm

It's really quite a shame. It looks so good. And the promises were so great.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Brian » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:24 pm

Daehawk wrote:I don't think any game ever has needed 100s and 100s of employees, taken over 5 years, and cost 150 million+. I mean how do they ever expect to make near that back?
Grand Theft Auto 5
Media analyst Arvind Bhatia estimated the development budget for the game exceeded US$137 million, and The Scotsman reporter Marty McLaughlin estimated that the combined budget of the development and marketing efforts exceeded GB£170 million (US $265 million), making Grand Theft Auto V the most expensive video game ever made.
GTA V has made more than $3 billion so far
Keep in mind, this article is from over a year ago.
Rockstar Games has shipped more than 75 million copies of Grand Theft Auto 5 worldwide
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Daehawk » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:53 pm

Damn. In the mid 90s a game that sold 100,000 copies was rare.
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by KDH » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:51 am

...
:naughty: ... How to Get a Refund for Star Citizen

<snips>
The culmination of these things fostered an environment where asking for refunds wasn’t considered “appropriate,” but more generally where having criticism of Star Citizen as a game was suppressed not only by members of the community but the moderators and staff as well. But with the advent of Derek Smart and Something Awful forums becoming the only place where Star Citizen criticisms could be openly discussed without fear of repercussions, that paradigm shifted. This led to Roberts saying this to Polygon in August 2015:

“If there are cases where people are really upset, or facing personal hardships, on a case by case basis we take a look and we refund,” he said. “We don’t want to keep people around. We don’t want to fight with them.”
Level 1

This is the stage where you make the best effort to contact RSI and communicate your refund concerns to them. They will probably deny you a refund initially, but this step is required in order to make further escalation (chargebacks, etc.) go smoothly.

1. (Optional): Purge any of your social media accounts of any statements that you think RSI might not agree with.

Emailing them on a regular basis is key. When you get a response like this, you’ll know it’s time to move on to Level 2:

Hi (You),

Thank you very much for contacting us.

I am very sorry to hear that you no longer wish to back Star Citizen, however we have reviewed your account status and we regret that we are not able to accommodate your request for a refund since it was received outside of the statutory 14 day period. I understand that this may seem unwelcoming, but unfortunately we are now obligated to send over the following information as protocol:

You made your pledge to the crowdfunding campaign to raise funds for the development of “Star Citizen.” When you contributed your pledge it was applied to the building of the game and the team and resources needed to make it happen. The funds are not idly maintained in a bank account for months or years in case someone wants his/her money back.
They’ll attempt to use a line called the ’14 days’ grace period, but that applies after the goods are delivered as promised. So for people who bought a package with Squadron 42, for example, that hasn’t been released at all yet. The 14 days grace period would come into play after that game is fully released.
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Daehawk
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Daehawk » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:57 am

Im tempted as I could really use the money I once had. But all that trouble I doubt Ill bother. But I might as I feel this game will not come out in the way it has been put forward. Ive not gotten my monies worth at all since I have only flown a ship maybe 10 times in the MP test and the other Ive not flown at all. I kinda want out at this point.
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Paingod
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by Paingod » Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:17 am

That was a fascinating read, grounded in reality, with many viewpoints and good arguments for a refund if there ever was one. I've personally got $160 tied up in this - a Freelancer DUR if it ever releases - and am both staggered and dismayed at the way they've let scope creep run the game - with Chris Roberts freely admitting the project just keeps getting bigger.

I'm not at a point of trying to get a refund, but I'm being swayed. I believe that if enough people demand one and go as far as a chargeback, forcing the money out of them, RSI will have no alternative but to collapse and go bankrupt. I don't want to be a contributing factor to that if I don't need to be. I'm still hoping something comes of it.
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KDH
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Re: Space, er, I mean, Star Citizen

Post by KDH » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:53 am

Based on his separation from game development (2003) .. he would have to prove himself in today's market. I want to believe, but not with my 150 million. He is the George Broussard of this century
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