Eador:Genesis

[Freezer-TPF-]

Really looking forward to this one.

[LordMortis]

Seeing this for the first time today. How is Genesis? It really looks like it will scratch the long since dead old HoMM itch. Does it play Multiplayer? If so, how?

Man I don't have time for this. Stupid OO.

[IceBear]

If you don't have time for it, you can wait for the new release coming this quarter (at least that's what I've been lead to expect). Mainly graphics and interface updates (again from what I understand) so should be even more of an enjoyable experience

[LordMortis]

If you don't have time for it, you can wait for the new release coming this quarter (at least that's what I've been lead to expect). Mainly graphics and interface updates (again from what I understand) so should be even more of an enjoyable experience

I'm guessing the new version will be a bit more than $6 which is a great price point for my cheap ass and I like the style of art on the original better than the screenies for the new game.

I have no idea what the interface is like on either version, so *shrug*.

Of course, I'm just justifying buying it right now in my head is all...

[IceBear]

Yeah, figured it was the price that was a key point, but wasn't sure if you were aware of it (lots of people don't read through threads when they jump in late). I figure, I like the guy's games so I have no issue throwing him the full price for his new version to support him in continuing to support and grow this series

[LordMortis]

Yeah, figured it was the price that was a key point, but wasn't sure if you were aware of it (lots of people don't read through threads when they jump in late). I figure, I like the guy's games so I have no issue throwing him the full price for his new version to support him in continuing to support and grow this series

I didn't at first but I had to in order to understand why a GoG game from 2009 was being mentioned as one of the best games of 2012.

[LordMortis]

Started playing this about two weeks ago and I knew I shouldn't. I am hopeless hooked and I've barely begun. Even on beginner level, I quickly lose a world and feel like I need to learn more about the game before progressing and false start.

This is totally the game I've been waiting for and I'm about 4 years behind. This is every thing Heroes of Might and Magic IV should have been. Has much of the same tactical feel but a totally new and interesting strategic map.

I'll be happy to pay full price for Broken World when it comes out and pray the don't ruin all of the goodness of the original.

BTW, I'm not used to sucking so bad at a TBS game at the beginner level. Crazy man, crazy. My heroes aren't very good at predicting what they can win and my judgement is too aggressive. I'm also absolutely horrible at managing money and predicting which choices will be best for my provinces.

[Jag]

I played a few minutes of Eador, but I didn't get the love even thought I'm a huge fan of HOMM/MoM type games. I pre-ordered anyway trusting that the new game will be good and not wanting to be left out of the initial discussions at release!

[LordMortis]

Reading through the thread

Is the manual worth reading?
I will try to remember to check the hints.txt file but unless it tells me how to hatch eggs, it's probably not much for me.

...My only fear is that the AI is going to be passive ...

There have been some very positive comments on the QT3 forum about the AI. Saying it is very competent on both the tactical and strategic layer. It does not sound like it is passive, to the contrary it seems you need to be on your toes at all times.

At beginner level, I'm finding the strategic AI to be great and the tactical AI to be acceptable. It makes some pretty bad mistakes like blocking it's own movement or moving troops in the back first but it's not so horrible as to be a distraction... Unless you autoresolve. Then you scream at the monitor for it getting your units needlessly killed.

[LordMortis]

I hear wasting the long weekend calling me. On my latest attempt (at beginner) I'm on my 6th shard and I haven't lost a shard yet. I've learned to be even more flexible in my opening though my initial surge always still revolves around archers. I seem to have three openings depending on the surroundings. Start with Commander only (usually when surround by plains). Start with Warrior only (when start in a swamp and surrounded by no plains/cash generation). Start with a Warrior and a Scout (when surrounded by forests and hills).

I know I'm way way late to the party but I am totally digging on how the game really builds and changes so far.

I still haven't figured out how to hatch eggs. I guess I will wait until the magic combo of buildings appears and never know what they were.

I look forward to the day when I feel confident enough to take on some of the seemingly crazy tough critters like the dragon. I never even try and I probably should but the save game dictates caution and I kind of like it that way.

Can you actually complete a labyrinth?

What happens when you enter the arena? I'm ascared to try.


I'm feeling pretty good... which means everything will collapse tonight.

[ColdSteel]

I still haven't figured out how to hatch eggs.

You have to buy the right buildings/upgrades to hatch them. It will say on the building something about allowing hatching of a particular type of egg. Plus the eggs are rank 3 I think so you'll need to upgrade the garrison to be able to hatch them.

If you're playing the campaign you will not see most of the structures you can build for a very long time. I recommend that you pause in your campaign to play a normal scenario or two, which are totally different in that they allow you to build everything. That way you can learn what does what and then go back to the campaign later. It really helps. Plus, the stand alone scenarios are a ton of fun to play.

[LordMortis]

I still haven't figured out how to hatch eggs.

You have to buy the right buildings/upgrades to hatch them. It will say on the building something about allowing hatching of a particular type of egg. Plus the eggs are rank 3 I think so you'll need to upgrade the garrison to be able to hatch them.

If you're playing the campaign you will not see most of the structures you can build for a very long time. I recommend that you pause in your campaign to play a normal scenario or two, which are totally different in that they allow you to build everything. That way you can learn what does what and then go back to the campaign later. It really helps. Plus, the stand alone scenarios are a ton of fun to play.

If all eggs start at rank three then yeah it will be a while. Even five shards in, I'm barely into rank two territory. (and still haven't seen the jousting arena) The shame is when I first started playing, I got quests to find eggs all of time. Since I started finding eggs *all of the time* I haven't seen an egg quest since.

That and I've never seen a building talk about egg hatching and I read every building option in every shard available pretty closely, but at least now I know what to look for.

[Jag]

Put more time into it and I'm starting to enjoy the depth, but it is hard! I haven't actually won a shard yet, so I wonder if I'm playing wrong. Are all the hero classes balanced or is Commander the best one? My scout and wizard get 1 shotted early on.

[LordMortis]

but it is hard!

I've false started over multiple lost worlds in the first five or so shard on beginner a lot and I though I was fairly adept at this style of game.

Are all the hero classes balanced

I don't think so and the shards aren't balanced either. If you have a world with a lot plains then the Commander is a good way to go. Conquering early with more troops is easier because all heroes are so fragile at the beginning and you can feed more troops with the

Don't take your heroes battle estimates too seriously. Their often off by a lot. Start by only taking easy towns and only scout fighting orcs and goblins. Work up to undead when you have hand to hand troops that can take out skeletons or when you have a mitt full of magic bolts. Skip the rest and come back to them later. Learn your enemy slowly and know that even the easiest goblin becomes more dangerous the further you get from your home. I spend a lot of time/effort scouting and calculating fights at home or in the immediate surrounding area to earn cash before moving on.

I'm a big fan of the archer as my sole level one troop but I still pick up a means to garrison each of my towns early.

Pub>Happiness upgrade building is the first shard I take no matter what. Revolts are expensive and possibly be a pain in the ass.

Concentrate on cashflow to stay ahead of your troop needs and keep a reserve to meet the random event needs. When your cashflow is sufficiently ahead you can worry about more heroes and the maintenance of their troops.

I don't like mercenaries. You quick drown yourself in debt with them.


Take what I say with a grain of salt as I'm not playing all that great either.

[ColdSteel]

That and I've never seen a building talk about egg hatching and I read every building option in every shard available pretty closely

There are many, many building that you haven't even seen yet.

Edirr over at Qt3 has put together some really nice documentation on the all the buildings in the game and part of a game manual. It's very helpful. I think the Forester's guild is the building that allows hatching of at least some types of eggs.

Are all the hero classes balanced or is Commander the best one? My scout and wizard get 1 shotted early on.

Put more time into it and I'm starting to enjoy the depth, but it is hard! I haven't actually won a shard yet, so I wonder if I'm playing wrong. Are all the hero classes balanced or is Commander the best one? My scout and wizard get 1 shotted early on.

Scout and the Warrior are both the most viable as your first hero. Scout is probably best/easiest to start. If you use the Scout you'll need surround him with melee units. Get a healer as soon as possible. Get him a few levels to raise ranged damage and buy him a good bow and good arrows and he will kill most stuff before they can close on him. Don't forget to give him some spells as well. Use him to bribe the surrounding provinces into joining you without fighting. That will get your economy off to a good start.

Again, I would recommend learning on a random scenario and then come back to the campaign. It's a much easier way to learn the game.

[LordMortis]

Again, I would recommend learning on a random scenario and then come back to the campaign. It's a much easier way to learn the game.

I should to that. On the campaign, it's disheartening to get fifteen hours into it and realize that being on the verge of losing your third world this early means you're fairly well doomed. "Beginner" is misnomer, that's for sure.


...

And I forgot. Learn terrain and know your initiative. Range success or failure is the difference maker in the tactical game unless you have 15th level warrior who knows how not to take risks (like taking on three trolls by himself. Whoops!)

[Jag]

My Scout just hit level 10 and I'm kicking ass thanks to the tips here.

Now I need to get back to the game. Holy crap this game has some serious depth!

[Tao]

Pre-ordered Eador-Masters of the broken world and received Genesis for free.

Playing the campaign on skilled and attempting to take my first shard (after the tutorial stuff). I do not see a way to hire a second hero, am I missing something or is it not possible to have two hero's? If not I am probably going to set the game aside.

The AI can field multiple heroes and while I am chasing down one hero stack the other does an end run around me and sweeps up all my provinces. When I finally kill the 1st hero (you cannot force them to engage) I then have to go back through and reclaim my territory and kill the 2nd hero by which time 1st hero is back in action and the whole process starts over. I can only get to turn 25-30 before the AI is invading my area. Oh and when the AI takes a province they dump a dozen troops inside to protect it, where as I can only currently have 6 units in my army. 5-6 computer bowmen and my entire force is dead before I can get half-way across the board.

Is there anyway to resupply your units other than running back to your main town? Again this is where multiple heroes would be useful.

[tgb]

This may not be of much help, since it's been a while since I played, but you can hire additional heroes. Keep poking around the interface. I remember they are pretty expensive, though.

[Baroquen]

Yeah, you definitely can hire additional heroes. You might need a certain building in the city first. Unfortunately, i don't have it loaded on this computer, and a quick search on the web couldn't get me more details. But you absolutely can hire more heroes.

[ColdSteel]

Playing the campaign on skilled

I think you may find that to be problematic. This game can really kick your butt, even on beginner difficulty, until you learn what you're doing.

is it not possible to have two hero's?

You can hire as many as you like but each one gets exponentially more expensive to hire.

Part of the problem you're having is due to the difficulty level. Even people that have played it for a long time have great difficulty beating it on the higher levels. Unlike a lot of other 4X games, the AI in this one will kick your ass. And that's a good thing.

The Campaign is severely restricted for a long time in what you can build and hire. If you really want to learn the game and the ins and outs of how it works, I'd play a stand alone scenario to get better and develop some strategies and then come back and try the campaign. The campaign is super, super, long and you will need to capture about 20 or 30 shards before you can start to do most of the things you can do in a single scenario. The scenarios are randomly generated and they are excellent to play. I had much more fun with them than I did with the first part of the campaign.

[Tao]

Found the screen to purchase more Heroes and wow they are really expensive, a second hero cost is about 75% of your total starting gold. I took the plunge and so far it's worked out well but I was definitely behind on building construction and opening up more troops so time will tell. It is definitely nice to be able to swap between heroes when one gets beat up and I am thinking the cost to hire the 2nd hero might offset the cost of a couple of resurrections. As in most 4X games I think a lot comes down to luck of the world randomizer, had one game where my starting town was surrounded by human villages (easy), my current game I am wedged between Dwarves, Elves and Steppes Horsemen (much more challenging).

I had already read reports of the game being brutally hard although I must say I don't see the advantage to designing a game in that manner. What is the point to having 7 or 8 difficulty levels when beginner would be the equivalent to Hard on most other games. Is it worth the time and effort to code in difficulty levels that 99.9% of your player base will never attempt.
My biggest gripe with games which skew their difficulty toward masochistic levels is it breaks the flow of the game for me, to play for an hour or two and feel like your getting a foothold and your hero is starting to level up and open up more abilities and then you have to dump and restart from scratch again. Perhaps a more flexible save system would have helped alleviate this but I can see where the developer implemented the "Ironman" like single save to again up the difficulty of the game.
He was definitely going for a very specific niche market.

[LordMortis]

I play on beginner and it's gotten much easier since I learned about the enemy. Knowing what to walk away from and when to send in a hero better suited to deal with it helps a lot. I have no idea how much I'll scale it up if/when I play again after the first playthrough. It will be interesting to see if the tactical AI get better.

Heros go 100,500,1500,5000,50000 in cost so far. There are buildings to bring the price down but I haven't gotten to them yet.

Firsts for me this weekend. first 3rd tier troop. first dragon beat (and first temple cultists). first egg hatched. and am currently having my shard attacked by an enemy for the first time. I have no idea how far I am in to the game.

And I tried an arena championship and got my ass handed to me. It's looking like the Wizard is ultimately the level 30 troop unless the one I faced had some absolutely bitchin equipment.

I'm know I haven't seen all of the critters yet because I found phoenix egg and I've never seen a phoenix.

I've still never finished a labyrinth and wonder whats in the heart.

[dbemont]

I had already read reports of the game being brutally hard although I must say I don't see the advantage to designing a game in that manner. What is the point to having 7 or 8 difficulty levels when beginner would be the equivalent to Hard on most other games. Is it worth the time and effort to code in difficulty levels that 99.9% of your player base will never attempt.
My biggest gripe with games which skew their difficulty toward masochistic levels is it breaks the flow of the game for me, to play for an hour or two and feel like your getting a foothold and your hero is starting to level up and open up more abilities and then you have to dump and restart from scratch again. Perhaps a more flexible save system would have helped alleviate this but I can see where the developer implemented the "Ironman" like single save to again up the difficulty of the game.
He was definitely going for a very specific niche market.

The new save system in the new game will help with this.

But there's also a question of outlook on difficulty. How much do you HAVE to win?

Playing against friends, most of us can accept winning only a portion of the time. Yet lots of players cannot accept a loss versus the AI. Which wouldn't really matter, except that once you are sure you will win, the game becomes boring -- at least for a lot of people.

I think the audience for really difficult is people who are more worried about that boredom, than they are about the possibility of losing.

[dbemont]

Is there anyway to resupply your units other than running back to your main town? Again this is where multiple heroes would be useful.

Yes, there are special buildings for extending shopping, new troops, and new spells to other provinces.

Of course you can use additional heroes for the shopping and troops, but that's usually not an effective use of a hero, given the cost.

[LordMortis]

I think the expectation is that with a ton of different difficulty levels is that beginner would be easy for someone familiar with these types of games. So far I'm really enjoying the beginner game. Parts are very challenging parts are very easy.

Playing with my shard being invaded finally allows me to see the computer expand on the strategic map. Yeah. It cheats. No big deal though. I think that's a testament to how much I am enjoying the game. If I thought the game were 'meh' watching the AI just fill up the field with pubs and mills that fast because it got the technology would piss me off.