Dawn of War - strategy stuff

[Jow]

Surprised we have zero talk about this game these days. Bleeeeah.

Played my first multiplayer game using the Eldar tonight. All the research options they have are kinda daunting at first until you realize the majority of them are just upgrades allowing you to build corresponding units. That said, these guys are definitely the most micromanagement intensive, especially if you're playing them as they're intended to be played (all over the bloody map).

Here's a thought, though, after playing a skirmish vs. "Harder" orks... What in the world is a straight-up ork player supposed to do against warp spiders? My guess is that the Orks can pump out so many guys as to overwhelm the spiders eventually, but has anyone playing as Orks had any real success against the Eldar, especially if they go heavy on the warp spiders?

[MeSlayer]

Not sure about the orky players question, as the Emperor demands I play marines...

BUT, I would suggest hitting up the relic fourms and learning the bugs that, playing as eldar, you will undoubtedly be accused of using even if you dont know what they are.

Short version is plasma grenades hit 3 times for one shot, bigtime bug don't usem. Using the Seer council will make everyone probably make comments about your mothers history of sexual partners, especially early in the game (though that in of itself isnt a bug, just the nature of online gamers I suppose). The SC conceal ability is broken i think ? I'm not sure about the exact ability names .

Hrm, I think there was another big eldar bug but I forget, anyways, enjoy your DoW'ing : )

[GreenGoo]

Surprised we have zero talk about this game these days. Bleeeeah.

Me too. I've been spending my time over at www.relicnews.com. There is a lot of intelligent discussion there, if you can filter out the standard internet morons.

Played my first multiplayer game using the Eldar tonight. All the research options they have are kinda daunting at first until you realize the majority of them are just upgrades allowing you to build corresponding units. That said, these guys are definitely the most micromanagement intensive, especially if you're playing them as they're intended to be played (all over the bloody map).

Are you playing ladder or just pickup games? I like ladder games because I like the smaller maps and early conflict. My late game isn't too great.

Eldar are extremely powerful and have a number of opening moves. I've stopped playing them though, until the next patch. Too many wankers abusing bugs, making any eldar player take a lot more crap from their opponents than they should.

The tower rush is a pain in the ass to defeat if you don't see it coming. I understand bonesong will change in the next patch, and will only affect buildings closer to your stronghold/assembly thingy. So it won't be useable offensively, which in my opinion is good. Hell, on the small maps, you can even rush with bonesingers. It's an amazing thing to behold. Those builders are tough as nails, and that katana is HUGE.

Plasma grenades are bugged. They land 3 times instead of once. They DESTROY space marines.

Conceal reduces ranged damage to a squad that contains a seer. The problem is that the seer council is all seers, and conceal stacks. Meaning, a full seer council with conceal takes a miniscule amount of damage from ranged weapons. And they specialize in HtH so countering with enough HtH units is tough. And they all have knockdown powers that can knockdown more than 1 unit at a time. And they can be produced in the first 3 mins or so. Very abusable. Several changes coming for the council in the next patch. No details have been given other than conceal will no longer stack. Combined with the Farseer's Fortune ability....ugh.

Entangle isn't bugged, but it could use some balance tweaking. It really dominates the early skirmishes. Good Eldar players can crush almost any player with just guardians (entangle + plasma) and seer council (all but immune to ranged fire).

Here's a thought, though, after playing a skirmish vs. "Harder" orks... What in the world is a straight-up ork player supposed to do against warp spiders? My guess is that the Orks can pump out so many guys as to overwhelm the spiders eventually, but has anyone playing as Orks had any real success against the Eldar, especially if they go heavy on the warp spiders?

I've played a fair bit of Orkz on the ladder and read quite a bit about them. The general conclusion is that Orkz mostly die to WS.

A couple of things that you can try.

1. Fast tech to trakks and pray he doesn't have haywires or brightlances.

2. Pour so many sluggas onto him that the WS suffocate under the dead. As Orkz, you should be rushing asap. This can mess up an Eldar player as WS are expensive at the early stages of the game.

3. Get storm boyz (I think they are heavy infantry) and chase the WS around. Both units have jump capabilities, so it gets interesting.

4. Always have nob leaders in your squads. Tough as nails and heavy infantry.

5. Pray.

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Edit:

I'm mostly playing Chaos right now. I'm kinda struggling with their opening game. Their marines seem much crappier than regular marines. They really seem not as accurate and have poor morale recovery. The accuracy thing really bugs me, since I would normally use missile marines for anti-vehicle, but I've seen my squads miss 20+ shots in a row. There is some talk that this is a bug, which I hope gets corrected.

Anyway, if you want to discuss specific strategies, I'm all for it.

[Sponge]

Surprised we have zero talk about this game these days. Bleeeeah.

Yeah, no kidding. DoW had a few massive threads at GG during beta.

That's one of the quirks about general gaming forums is that most people grab the hot new game, play for a month or two, then move on to the next new title, rinse and repeat. As a casual gamer, and one not inclined to buy a title on release day, I find myself tailing the crowd quite often. ANd when I do finally catch up the crowd runs off to the next game! Bah.

BAck OT: I finished the campaign and played a handful of skirmish games with the SPace Marines and I loved the fact that they were easy to play. There seemed to be very little micromanagement and I tried convincing all my buds to rush out and buy the game, thinking the other races were management-lite too.

Not so with the Eldar. I tried one skirmish with them and was like, "OMG, the micro is back!" I hated it. I still haven't tried the other races.

[Jow]

Slayer: I've watched a ton of replays since the game came out so I've been able to see the plasma nades and the council in action over and over, enough to see how badly bugged they are. There's also a problem with conceal stacking or some such, but I've never seen it. I must admit I used both the 'nades and the council, but at least it took me until the 10 minute mark or so before I got them into battle.

Hardplace: Just pickup games with a few of the guys on the gonegold irc channel.

Funny you mention the tower rush. I didn't know it even existed until I watched a replay last night in which an Ork player beat off an Eldar tower rush. The eldar guy had two platforms and a webgate up before the Ork player even got into the fray. Crazy. Funny enough, the Eldar player started cussing the Ork one out big time the rest of the game, calling him a "nub" and threatening to hack his PC repeatedly, "so bad you'll need a new PC". I guess the Eldar idjit had a 20-0 ladder record before he lost this one. Poor, poor guy.

This is the reason I don't play random ladder games, btw. I just don't feel like dealing with that garbage.

Eldar micro: There's a lot there to be had, but when you're able to keep up and pull things off with them it's a pretty awesome feeling. I REALLY need to make some effort to learn to use hotkeys though.

Orks vs. eldar: Good point on the Stormboyz, if you can survive that long. They definitely ARE heavy infantry, which don't get ripped up nearly as much by the WS's.

I've not had too much trouble playing Chaos, although they're now the only side I haven't played in multiplayer (played the heck out of em in skirmish, though). I've actually seen the 100% miss ratio with missiles vs. vehicles with them before (pretty strange) but with the regular assault rifles I haven't seen too big a disparity. Have ya thought about beelining for the first accuracy upgrade?

Also, do you have a favorite side or one that you're best with? (any of you. )

[SuperHiro]

I've been trying to finish up the sp campaign. I played a quick game as Eldar against Harder AI and got destroyed.

The best way to nail warp spiders as Orks are twofold I believe. It's been awhile since I've consulted the forums on it though.

1) Hit them hard and hit them early.
2) Wartraks.

Come to think of it, Wartraks is pretty much the answer for everything. I'm pretty sure Stormboyz are normal infantry.

Oh and I finally found a reason to make larger squads: fighting juice. An invinceable squad of 15 is waaaay more formidable than an invinceable squad of 7. Still working on it though. My Ork skills have diminished considerably since I'm just basically doing the sp campaign. I would love any opportunity to get in on some mp though.

[Jow]

When you use fighting juice it's only on a single individual, not an entire squad, right? I've not used it once thus far since it seems like casting it on individual units (besides your leader units) would be insane micro you'd just never have time for.

[GreenGoo]

When you use fighting juice it's only on a single individual, not an entire squad, right? I've not used it once thus far since it seems like casting it on individual units (besides your leader units) would be insane micro you'd just never have time for.

Whole squad.

[Jow]

Holy hell. That's huge. If you've got a leader attached to a squad does it affect him too? Any idea on the duration of the juice or what exactly it does (aside of preventing death for a bit)?

Speaking of Docs, I noticed something odd about them. SM apothecaries seem to increase the healing rate of all units around them, while Docs only seem to have this effect when they're actually attached to squads. Any idea if this is intentional?

[SuperHiro]

AFAIK, juice only prevents death. The FC has a similar ability (or was it the Librarian?). I can't remember if it's for 10 seconds or for 30?

Either way, that's more than enough time to enter melee range.

[Jow]

Librarian. I forget the name of the ability now, but it's a researchable, whereas the Docs get theirs for free. However, the Librarian's ability affects all infantry around him, whereas the fighting juice is just a single targeted group (right?).

[SuperHiro]

Librarian. I forget the name of the ability now, but it's a researchable, whereas the Docs get theirs for free. However, the Librarian's ability affects all infantry around him, whereas the fighting juice is just a single targeted group (right?).

Yes

[Jow]

I just watched a replay where an Eldar player won in about 8 minutes vs. a Chaos player using only the Farseer and Bonesingers, which are surprisingly beefy in melee - a group of about 10-15 of them took down the Chaos Lord all by themselves. As ridiculous as it seems, I love seeing stuff like that work.

Replay can be found here if you're interested:

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=44761