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Daehawk
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

Kasey Chang wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:19 am Getting into Technomancer, which is related to Mars: War Logs, albeit kinda sequel. So far, I'm just running around inside the city of Abundance, doing Fedex quests. The game doesn't quite give you arrows to your objectives. But it *does* give you some non-combat options like charm, lockpick, and so on IF you did add some points to those attributes. Right now, I feel more like a cop with a tilted moral compass and secret agenda than a technomancer.
I try not to think of Technomancer. I haven't finished Mars yet. After 3 tries I got way into Mars and got stuck. Weeks later I got past that part and no more than 200 feet from that I got stuck again. So I haven't been back in months. I will finish the game first before thinking of the sequel. I love the game. Just these tough bits drive me crazy.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

Me neither. (never finished Mars Warlogs. I don't think I ever even left the dome. I remember doing down to the caves and killed some big critter, then ended up doing Fedex quests back and forth about some great escape thing. And that's when I stopped playing.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Smoove_B »

Holy crap - big news from STEAM:
Windows XP and Windows Vista Support

Starting on January 1 2019, Steam will officially stop supporting the Windows XP and Windows Vista operating systems. This means that after that date the Steam Client will no longer run on those versions of Windows. In order to continue running Steam and any games or other products purchased through Steam, users will need to update to a more recent version of Windows.

The newest features in Steam rely on an embedded version of Google Chrome, which no longer functions on older versions of Windows. In addition, future versions of Steam will require Windows feature and security updates only present in Windows 7 and above.

For the remainder of 2018 Steam will continue to run and to launch games on Windows XP and Windows Vista, but other functionality in Steam will be somewhat limited. For example, new features such as the new Steam Chat will not be available. We encourage all users on these operating systems to upgrade to newer versions of Windows in order to have ongoing access to the latest features of Steam, and to ensure future access to all games and other Steam content.
I suspect quite a few PC games aren't going to survive the transition.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Daehawk
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

I use Win 7 but thats a buncha shit right there.
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Fitzy
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Fitzy »

Makes sense. You can't keep supporting operating systems that aren't even supported anymore.
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Blackhawk
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Blackhawk »

XP is 17 years old. It's been ten years since XP has had an update, and nine for Vista. They have to let it go sometime. Nobody is complaining that they aren't supporting Windows 95 anymore, either. At some point you end up not being able to release better versions of a piece of software because there is no way to run them on the older OS.

And the latest Steam Hardware Survey shows that XP represents 0.22% of those polled. That's less than one in four hundred. Vista didn't even make the list.
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Paingod
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Paingod »

Daehawk wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:40 pm I use Win 7 but thats a buncha shit right there.
Seriously. I'm pretty pissed that my Windows 95c install won't work with Steam at all.

I'm still a Windows 7 guy, and will move to Windows 10 when there's absolutely no option. I just don't care for the interface at all. I support it at work and am familiar with it, but think it's a mess.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

Everything at home is still windows 7 here too.
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Daehawk
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

Ive owned and used PCs since 1994 and had BASIC stuff since the late 70s early 80s and I cannot use my wifes laptop with Win 10 on it. I hate it.
Last edited by Daehawk on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by coopasonic »

Friggin old people.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

Are you on our lawn again?? Hey guys he's on the lawn again and I think he is holding up a boombox!!!
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Max Peck »

If someone is still running an internet-connected Vista/XP system, I'm surprised they can run games on it at all, what with all the malware they'd be hosting by now. :coffee:
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Kasey Chang
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

Technomancer is growing on me a little. Combat requires a bit of tactical thinking and heavy use of the "active pause" (i.e. bullet time) If you just go real-time you'll die. The problem is the map and quests, and that's the same as its predecessor, Mars War Logs (MWL). Apparently, there are quite a few missions you can do for the local mob, i.e. the Vory and the leader, Anton Rogue. Apparently everybody's "surname" describes their role. Technomancers are all surnamed Mancer. Traders are all surnamed Goodsman, and so on. For people who don't belong, they got surname of Rogue.

The player character is one of the rarest... A rogue who somehow has technomancer gifts, so he has TWO surnames, Zacariah Rogue Mancer.

The story right now is apparently Colonel Viktor doesn't believe in my mostly benevolent approach to problem solving. Mutants doing a work stoppage to complain about lack of tools and lack of medicine for the sick? I provided those and got them to work, but I got framed as "mutant sympathizer", and apparently one of my former combat team member is a spy sent by the ASC (local KGB) to spy on me. WTF... I got rid of him, but it's too late. I and my two companions that are left have to run and hijack one of the few rovers, and make a run to a mythical city of Labyrinthe Noctis, oversaw by a "merchant prince". I am now officially an outlaw, and some of my missions take me back helping the opposition through smuggling and stuff.

The map is large, and while the map does show a semi-3D, there's no real arrow pointing you the way, or to mark something you want to navigate toward. And the map are truly 3D, with staircases, ladders, and more and multiple vertical levels/layers. While you do get an indicator that whatever it is you're looking for is on this level, above, or below, you're not give clear clues as to how to get to them, other than "look for stairs nearby". Getting lost should happen quite frequently, and the map and mini-map can use some work.

Some of the mechanics are just... weird. To loot something off, say, a chest, you go up and hit E (to open). You can press E again to "loot all". If the container is locked and you have the required lockpicking skill, you E to unlock, E to open, AND E again to "loot all". WTF!? Why make it multiple steps? There is an emcumberance limit, but unless you're carrying around dozens of clothing and other items, I doubt you'll ever hit your limit.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by KDH »

.
... Farming Simulator 19 ... Featuring John Deere
.

...
Spoiler:
.
GIANTS Software and Focus Home Interactive unveil the highly anticipated John Deere brand, joining the largest garage ever in a Farming Simulator game, in this E3 trailer. Farming Simulator 19 is the deepest, most complete farming simulator ever as the multimillion-selling franchise takes a giant leap forward with a complete overhaul of its graphics engine that provides the most striking and immersive visuals to date. It is the richest farming experience ever made for consoles and PCs, releasing at the end of the year!

Farming Simulator 19 takes the biggest step forward yet with the franchise’s most extensive vehicle roster ever! You’ll take control of vehicles and machines faithfully recreated from all the leading brands in the industry such as Case IH, New Holland, Challenger, Fendt, Massey Ferguson, Valtra, Krone, Deutz-Fahr and many more. We’re also happy to welcome the world’s largest agriculture machinery company, John Deere. The brand arrives with iconic tractors such as the 8400R seen in today’s E3 trailer.

Farming Simulator 19 will feature new American and European environments, in which to develop and expand your farm. The game also introduces many exciting new farming activities, including new machinery and crops with cotton and oat! Tend to your livestock of pigs, cows, sheep, and chickens - or ride your horses for the first time, letting you explore in a brand-new way the vast land around your farm.

Farming Simulator 19 will be available Fall 2018 on PlayStation 4, Xbox One, PC and Mac.
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Ain't nobody got time for that
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Kasey Chang
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

The background for Technomancer is pretty good, actually. The different factions/corporations have different cultures, and completely different styles. Then you have cities/domes owned by each corporation/guild. The story centers on the city Ophir, owned by the corporation "Abundance", in a perpetual war with rival corporation "Aurora", and you start as Zacariah Mancer working for Abundance. Add a merchant faction (not aligned with the various corporations) and it's interesting. (In the prequel, Mars War Logs, you play a prisoner from Aurora being held by Abundance in a prison labor camp).

But there's just way too much forcing you to run back and forth, even when there's really no reason to run back other than to close out the quest.
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Daehawk
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

In Mars I escaped there and am in a town. its there gangs beat the shit out of me in numbers. I even have a partner helping and we both die. Frustrating.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Torfish »

Playing Diablo 3 season 14 that started last night. I always say that I'm done with the game. But once a new season opens, I always seem to come back with new interest. I'm not a crazy person that levels to 70 in a couple of hours. It will be a full day or two with my available play time. Trying out a crusader on normal seasons. I'll change up with a Monk hardcore later one. It's also pretty fun to watch the streamers play the first few days to see what's new and tips. Good stuff for now.

My interest will only last for about 2-3 weeks most likely. I'll switch between this, Hearthstone, Grim Dawn, and Civilization VI. My go-to games for the last couple of years.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

Daehawk wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:39 pm In Mars I escaped there and am in a town. its there gangs beat the shit out of me in numbers. I even have a partner helping and we both die. Frustrating.
Combat in MWL/Technomancer is frustrating. You have to use the active pause quite a bit, and learn how to block/disrupt with good timing. Else if you play it like a straight brawler you'll just die. Personally I just load a trainer and say F*** this, I'm just here for the story.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

I may reinstall and use a trainer so I can see that story and how it ends but first Ill give her a few more goes at it.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by gbasden »

Daehawk wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:40 pm I use Win 7 but thats a buncha shit right there.
No, no it's not. It's a good idea for security as well as developer resources. If some fool is still running XP without security patches, don't cater to them.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

I just used the trainer and I've gone all the way to the end. And it's one heck of an ending, even though some of the rewards you get really really sucks.
Spoiler:
The entire point of making it to the end was 1) Stop Viktor Watcher and his ASC (KGB) taking over Ophir and brutally oppress EVERYBODY. He already forced all the technomancers to flee (except the traitor) and brutally put down the mutant uprisings. 2) Find a way to contact Earth and hope for rescue, as the Mars corporations had been fighting too long.

The end battle basically had you racing toward "ice city" but apparently Viktor already got there ahead of you. After fighting through his goons, and it'll be a tough fight because his goons are getting more and more electrical resistant gear, and some of them carry good shields, you fight through another group, including Viktor himself. Once you took him out, you get his unique gear: Viktor's Gun, and Viktor's Dagger (which is more of a custom shortsword). Before then there were only like 4 other unique gear, Jefferey's Helmet, and Colonist's Gloves, Kain's Pants, and Kain's Club or something like that. But then what's after this? One final boss fight, and guardian that guards the access to the computer, and the game ends.

The final boss fight is a doozy though, a HUGE kraken like monster.

And the ending was a OMG WTF ending... Turns out there was no help from Earth because Earth no longer exists. Blasted apart. Kabloom. And the ancient secret about technomancers? Technomaners are mutants too... gene therapy, forced mutation which somehow prevents OTHER mutations.

So you are left with three choices:

a) hide both secrets, and you become the new benevolent leader of Ophir, replacing Viktor

b) release only the destruction of Earth, keep the technomancer secret, and go live in Noctis.

c) release both secrets, and call Mutant Valley home instead.

The part about trying to depose Viktor before this was interesting as it heavily depends on your reputation with Noctis and the Vory. The Vory can be bought, however, while Noctis cannot be, and the consequences can be... drastic.

Indeed, this game has a LOT of "consequences" based on your actions. This guide has MOST of them, it's missing at least one

The one's missing is in Noctis, when you heard about Vory threatening someone. When you interrogate Vory, they said they did it at the request of the local priest. You interviewed the guy being threatened, and he said he saw the priest stealing from the till of donations. But the the donations are stashed is blocked off by merc guards. The solution is to climb up a ledge nearby and defeat the guards, and thus, revealing the stolen stuff, and you end up with three choices: 1) accept the bribe and keep quiet 2) pocket all the serium yourself 3) turn the vicar in to the leader. I screwed up here and gave the serum back, earning a -3 and thus, when it's time to gather allies, Noctis told me to f*** myself. Oh well.

Also, this game is a bit iffy when it comes to quests. There was an objective to find which prostitutes Colonel Viktor used, and I can either ask the escaped prostitutes in Noctis, or ask the Black Dahlia gang's Mara (who are also former prostitutes). Either will give me the same info: go find the tablet from the "pimp" in Ophir/slums. But when I did the one in Noctis, the one in Ophir (Mara) didn't go away. (Still shows as an objective)

Also, there are certain quests that will END other quests, and this was never explained properly. If you defeat the ringleader, for example, and his gang, you need to loot his minions first, leaving him for last, else, when you hit "Arrest" or whatever, his minions all disappear. Similarly, in the quest to discredit Viktor, the "end it all quest" was "meet with assemblyman" except there was no indication doing this will cut you off from all the other quests also about discrediting Viktor.

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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

I've started playing Van Helsing II, which is basically a Diablo clone, albeit with a lot more story. I went through the first battle, then rescued Telsa. So I guess next would be taking another quest.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Z-Corn »

gbasden wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:53 pm
Daehawk wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:40 pm I use Win 7 but thats a buncha shit right there.
No, no it's not. It's a good idea for security as well as developer resources. If some fool is still running XP without security patches, don't cater to them.
What if some fool is running Win7 but doesn't apply the security patches? Is that the same thing?

Asking for a friend...
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KDH
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by KDH »

.
... Games removing Redshell SDK amid Spyware accusations:
.
A thread on Reddit has a week's worth of discussion about Red Shell, an SDK used in a bunch of games that's facing accusations of being a form of spyware. This is used to allow publishers to track the success of affiliate campaigns in selling games, but apparently it also creates a fingerprint that includes information about individual users. This situation has already progressed to the point where they have a lengthy list of game that have removed or have pledged to remove the controversial SDK, and an even lengthier list of games where it remains in place according to community reports. The number of prominent titles shows just how widespread this is:
.

Games:
Spoiler:
Games who used Redshell which removed or pledged to remove it (as of 16.06.2018):

Elder Scrolls Online (Pledged to remove it)
Conan Exiles (Pledged to remove it)
Ylands (Removed)
Holy Potatoes! We’re in Space?! (Pledged to remove it)
All Total War games, (Pledged to remove it)
Warhammer: Vermintide II, (Pledged to remove it)
Warhammer: Vermintide I, (might get removed also?)
My Time At Portia, (Pledged to remove it)
Dead by Daylight, (Pledged to remove it)
Battlerite, (Pledged to remove it)
AER Memories of Old, (Pledged to remove it)
Magic the Gathering Arena (closed beta & not on Steam), (Pledged to remove it for now)
Secret World Legends (Pledged to remove remains of it)
Hunt: Showdown (Pledged to remove it)
Escapists 2 (Pledged to remove it)
Omensight (Pledged to remove it)
.
Games still using Redshell according to community reports (as of 16.06.2018):

Civilization VI,
Kerbal Space Program,
Guardians of Ember,
The Onion Knights,
Realm Grinder,
Heroine Anthem Zero,
Warhammer 40k Eternal Crusade,
Krosmaga
Eternal Card Game
Sniper Ghost Warrior 3
Astro Boy: Edge of Time
Ballistic Overkill
Cabals: Card Blitz
CityBattle | Virtual Earth
Desolate
Doodle God
Doodle God Blitz
Dungeon Rushers
Labyrinth
My Free Farm 2
NosTale
RockShot
Shadowverse
SOS & SOS Classic
SoulWorker
Stonies
Tales from Candlekeep: Tomb of Annihilation
War Robots
Survived By
Injustice 2
The Wild Eight

.
New Adds: .. (not sure where these go)

Yoku's Island Express
Raging Justice
Warriors: Rise to Glory!
Trailmakers
Clone Drone in the Danger Zone
Vaporum
Robothorium
League of Pirates
Doodle God: Genesis Secrets


From: Blues
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Ain't nobody got time for that
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gbasden
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by gbasden »

Z-Corn wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:35 am
gbasden wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:53 pm
Daehawk wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:40 pm I use Win 7 but thats a buncha shit right there.
No, no it's not. It's a good idea for security as well as developer resources. If some fool is still running XP without security patches, don't cater to them.
What if some fool is running Win7 but doesn't apply the security patches? Is that the same thing?

Asking for a friend...
Pretty comparable. :)
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

Playing Van Helsing II some more, what's a tower defense game doing in the middle of my 3rd person RPG? :-D

Right now I'm on a quest to find Perun the Thunder God, already went up the mountain, and went through the caves, and did part 1. Almost ready for Part 2.

EDIT: Just fought through the digger and the citadel before that. So managed to conclude chapter 2 altogether.

I'd imagine chapter 3 is the grand finale, when I tried to go after the General myself.

I'm playing on easy, and let's just say this game has so many hidden little in-joke half the fun is going back and finding them. There are jokes referecing everything from Star Wars to Sherlock Holmes, Star Trek to Dr. Who, even Jack the Ripper. OTOH, even on easy, death happens relatively often, esp. when bad guys have special tricks. Bone cage, ground spikes, tether (tractor beam?) make you impossible to run away to heal. OTOH, my weapons are much improved once I figured out the upgrade system. (Weapons, armor, and accessories can be enhanced by enchantments, essenses (if available), and possibly runes. The stuff I find is almost always magical, so only "rare" or even "unique" stuff is worth something. I found the Baskerville set of belt, gun, and headgear, and there are apparently quite a few other sets out there.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

My son has been playing fallout 3 and the sepia-like visuals are really appealing to me.

Might be time to finally play it.
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Daehawk
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

Theres a mod to remove that :)
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KDH
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by KDH »

.
... American Girl™ Xbox Gamer Doll Set Now Exists
.
Spoiler:
Enlarge Image
.
The American Girl Doll series, which takes dolls and puts them in various professions, hobbies, and backstories, has announced a new accessory set for the dolls centered around the Xbox One and the various accessories an Xbox gamer might use.

The Xbox Gaming Set, which retails for $50, includes an Xbox One S that projects ten gaming scenes using a built-in projector, an Xbox One controller that fits in tiny little doll hands, a gaming chair with speakers that can be plugged into an audio device to output the signal, a headset for the doll, and two discs with different projection scenes and game cases for the discs.

The American Girl store page goes hard in making sure potential buyer know all these things are pretend and you're not getting a tiny usable Xbox One S. The projection thing is kind of cool, though.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Isgrimnur »

Bring on the giant meteor. We had a good run.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

Finished Van Helsing II. it seems the recommendation is try VH1, but do NOT buy VH3 or VH:Final Cut. Hmmm...

I'm doing it on easy mode, so I guess I can try it again on Veteran mode, and try to find all the Easter Eggs and callouts.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

Wildlands doesn't have it's own thread that I know of.

How awesome is it to be driving across the Bolivian countryside and then suddenly hear a predator's scream from somewhere in the distant jungle?

It's very awesome, that's how awesome.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by coopasonic »

GreenGoo wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:40 am Wildlands doesn't have it's own thread that I know of.
http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... =2&t=93889
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by GreenGoo »

Thanks. Didn't come up on the first page of searching so I immediately gave up. I'm not Isgrim. Oh, and I just did a general search of the forums, so don't bother telling me it's on the first page of PC Games.
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

Playing one of the simpler games: JunkerBot. It's like auto combat, but with strafing and 360 view so you circle each other, but it's usually 1 v 2 or 1 v 3. The base building interface is not explained well, but for less than $2 I guess I can't complain. It's pretty fun, though probably a bit repetitive.
My game FAQs | Playing: She Will Punish Them, Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius, The Outer Worlds
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Daehawk
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Daehawk »

Paingod wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:33 am I want to know how I managed to buy KoTOR II and never played it - it was installed and everything. I'm only a few hours in and I'm having about as much fun with this one as I did the first - though I miss my HK droid. I hope the one on my ship is as amusing as the original was.

How many games do I have that I look at and say "I've had that for so long that I must have played it by now" ... ?
In many ways its a better game but the way they either were forced to throw out the game early or they just didn't make a good ending ruined it to me. Ive played them both multiple times and finished them. had great fun with both too.

Where Id rate the first KOTOR a perfect 10 Id give the second one an 8 or a 9. If it either had a good ending or just didn't have the one it has Id rate it a 10 as well.
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Fitzy
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Fitzy »

Daehawk wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:41 am
Paingod wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:33 am I want to know how I managed to buy KoTOR II and never played it - it was installed and everything. I'm only a few hours in and I'm having about as much fun with this one as I did the first - though I miss my HK droid. I hope the one on my ship is as amusing as the original was.

How many games do I have that I look at and say "I've had that for so long that I must have played it by now" ... ?
In many ways its a better game but the way they either were forced to throw out the game early or they just didn't make a good ending ruined it to me. Ive played them both multiple times and finished them. had great fun with both too.

Where Id rate the first KOTOR a perfect 10 Id give the second one an 8 or a 9. If it either had a good ending or just didn't have the one it has Id rate it a 10 as well.
There is a big mod that restores the endings and other fixes. It’s on the steam workshop too. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =485537937

It is a great mod, but I can’t say if it’s something that should be experienced on a first play through. I’d lean yes, but understand if others disagreed.
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Kasey Chang
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

Speaking of KOTOR, I really need to play that. I remember getting into the game, was wandering the different levels of the "mall", nabbed almost everything that wasn't nailed down, and got to the point where I need to find jobs to go into the sewers/underlevel or something, and I think that's where I lost interest and went onto play something else. *sigh*
My game FAQs | Playing: She Will Punish Them, Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius, The Outer Worlds
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Kasey Chang
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Kasey Chang »

Junkerbot: I'm in my 4th crater and difficulty had been ramped up. I'm now facing like 4-5 bad guys at once, and it gets pretty darn hard. I need to build a fusion reactor to power my teleporter but I'm not finding enough metal quite yet. There are just too many enemies at once, so even if you are up-armored there are just too many guns hitting you at the same time. May have to try different tactics.

Trying AutoCraft, the scifi physics puzzler that's a lot like Besieged (where you build those medieval machines) but somewhere in the previous updates they screwed up the physics engine (or maybe it's the update to Unity 5?). Now the second puzzle (out of 34) is unsolvable.
My game FAQs | Playing: She Will Punish Them, Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius, The Outer Worlds
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Moliere
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Re: PC Gaming Randomness

Post by Moliere »

Is there a thread somewhere talking about Red Shell's alleged spyware?
In Mario Kart, red shells target your nearest rival and ruthlessly stop them in their tracks. Everybody hates them. Marketing company Red Shell, meanwhile, helps video game companies more accurately target potential customers with their ads. This fact has not sat well with some players who have recently discovered the software in a veritable kartload of Steam games.

According to Red Shell’s website, their software is meant to help game companies “measure the effectiveness of their marketing campaigns” by “tying information from marketing campaigns to in-game play.” Basically, it’s installed alongside games and tracks information about your devices (operating system, browser version number, IP address, etc) in order to ascertain how effective advertisements for that particular game are. The company swears up and down that it doesn’t collect personal information.
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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