Galactic Civilizations III Released!

[Island Dog]

The Alpha 3 patch 1 went out today with more MP map sizes, music, and lots of fixes.

Changelog here.

[tgb]

Beating Island Dog to the punch the Beta is available on Steam as Early Access

I had sworn off early access, but boy, howdy am I ever tempted to pick this up.

I guess there are still some playable races missing, as well as non-military victory conditions, minor races, and diplomacy.

$45 is a bit high for Early Access, although this would be a Day One purchase anyway. Still, I might hold off until diplomacy and other victory conditions are in.

[ColdSteel]

$45 is a bit high for Early Access

$45 is ridiculously high for early access. Plus there's just too many critical pieces that aren't in the game yet. For me the new combat engine is going to be make or break. This time around you're supposed to be able to give orders to your ships and then watch the battle play out in real time. If they handle that like the Dominions games do, then this could be really fun. You can set up some pretty complex orders and interactions in Dominions and it's really fun to watch battles and see how your strategy/tactics play out. However, if they make it so simple that players can't pull off their battle strategies, then players will get very frustrated and it will be a disaster. I'm thinking Birth of the Federation here. So, it's a wait and see. The $45 just makes that a total no-brainer. At that price it's not even slightly tempting.

[tgb]

$45 is a bit high for Early Access

$45 is ridiculously high for early access.

I'm sure that their answer would be that it's less than half of what they were asking for before . Anyway, that price should probably hold until right before release, so there's really no rush and there may even be sale prices lower than that.

According to the developer's playthrough I just watched, the next build is supposed to have everything but the campaign (which I never play anyway) and new combat animation. They are shooting for October. I think I'll wait for that one.

[AWS260]

$45 is ridiculously high for early access.

I'm not sure I understand. Why should early access be priced at a steep discount to the retail price?

[tgb]

$45 is ridiculously high for early access.

I'm not sure I understand. Why should early access be priced at a steep discount to the retail price?

The argument is that it's because the game is not complete. I don't necessarily agree with that, because I look at Early Access as a pre-order that comes with a demo (that may or may not reflect the final game, but at least it's an idea).

The real issue is what the market will bear. Most early access games are priced under $20, with a handful at $30. More than that is unusual.

[ColdSteel]

I'm not sure I understand. Why should early access be priced at a steep discount to the retail price?

Because you are helping alpha/beta test and develop the game. Something companies used to either pay you to do or would give you a free copy of the game for helping them out. Because EA games are incomplete and in many cases not much fun to play. Depending on how much you play a game in this state it can impact your enjoyment of the final product. Because you are buying a game on hope and a prayer that the final game will actually be a good game. We all remember how that worked out for Elemental. There's a fairly substantial risk in buying an EA game. That risk is mitigated by a lower price. As an example, I did buy Adventure Manager as EA even though it was a shell of an alpha game at that point. The high risk was worth it to me because they were only charging $4.99 for EA. Those are the only types of games I will even consider for EA unless it's very close to release and essentially feature complete. Otherwise the risk is just not worth it. To me $45 is a ridiculous amount to risk given what happened with Elemental.

In my opinion EA is ruining games and I don't think the trend is sustainable as an industry. Too many companies are charging full price for EA games that never get released or get released as incomplete, buggy pieces of crap. It's buying something on a promise. And such promises are often not worth much at all. Companies think it's great because it helps pay for their development costs but that doesn't make it a good deal for consumers.

[Jeff V]

Depending on how much you play a game in this state it can impact your enjoyment of the final product.

This is why I've sworn off all beta testing unless I get a personal request from the developer (something that hasn't happened in years now). Only one game ever survived the agonizing beta process to be played regularly after release -- that was SMAC.

[Island Dog]

$45 is a bit high for Early Access

$45 is ridiculously high for early access.

I'm sure that their answer would be that it's less than half of what they were asking for before . Anyway, that price should probably hold until right before release, so there's really no rush and there may even be sale prices lower than that.

According to the developer's playthrough I just watched, the next build is supposed to have everything but the campaign (which I never play anyway) and new combat animation. They are shooting for October. I think I'll wait for that one.

This is the current schedule we just updated this morning.

October 2014: Beta 2 - Diplomacy! Trade! United Planets! Krynn Syndicate! Global Events!
October will be a big month for GalCiv III. Many of the non-combat paths open up at this point, and we introduce global events and the fifth faction, the Krynn Syndicate.

December 2014: Beta 3 - Combat! Yor Singularity!
This is the big combat update. Ground invasions, our new take on fleet combat, and the sinister mechanical Yor join the beta before the end of the year.

Early 2015: Iteration, balance, polish, factions 7 & 8, and more!

April 2015: Release!

[Citizen]

Wonder if the Krynn Syndicate will have Dragon Highlords.

[Kraken]

$45 is ridiculously high for early access.

I'm not sure I understand. Why should early access be priced at a steep discount to the retail price?

They want you to pay them to beta test? Having worked for a few years as a game tester, that gets a big No Thanks from me. (As I see others have said.) I always wait until the first patch is out. Playing broken and incomplete games is not fun.

[Zarathud]

I don't think the old fogies here are the target demographic for super Early Access. I'll get on the train later, and like that I'll get past the year end busy season before that happens.

Keep us updated, as I'd like to see where the series goes. Hopefully, it's to a clean UI and yet more customized ship configs. Bonus points if there's a shipbuilder mode to give to my kids.

Blue LEGO Spaceman: SPACESHIPS!!!

[IceBear]

This is the trend now. Look at all the Early Access games right now. Remember when PA was almost $90 for Early Access? It should be releasing soon and now the price is $29. It'll drop in price; they are just cashing in on those that MUST. HAVE. IT. NOW

[Isgrimnur]

My trump card is my Steam backlog. There's NOTHING that I need to have now.

[tgb]

Yeah, I bought in. I'm weak. GalCiv II and expansions have never left my hard drive, and this would have been an October purchase anyway, so I went for it. I've only played a few turns as a couple of races, but there are definitely changes over II. Here's what I've seen so far, for good and bad, although I may still be missing some.

The good:

Race specific tech trees

Individual planetary budgets in addition to the macro-budget setting (although by default they correspond to each other)

Almost all colonizable planets have traits that add a bonus or malus to research, growth, etc., pretty much forcing your colonies to specialize.

Morality trees - similar to the culture trees in Civ V, there are a lot more of those multiple-choice decisions when colonizing planets, only this time you are awarded points that can be spent to gain bonuses. A lot of them are specific like free ships or unlocking buildings.

Shipyards are now orbital structures that can be moved. They are funded by the nearest colony, and in systems with multiple colonies can be positioned so that they get funding from all of them.

Specific elements to be mined, although I'm not sure what their purpose is. I don't know if they replace the old culture/defense/etc. nodes, are in addition to them, or are needed for specific techs.

The not-so-good:

Planetary political parties and elections appear to be out

Likewise asteroid mining (although the element mining above may be the replacement)

Clicking on a star no longer tells you how many conolonizable planets it has. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I really disliked it at frist, what with it being so "gamey", but otoh I've come to rely on it.

No population sliders on colony ships.

In short, there are enough changes to II, and enough is the same, to justify a purchase if you like previous editions.

From what I've seen so far.

[tgb]

Someone (one of the developers, I think) posted this on the Steam forum, and since most of us spend as little time in that wretched hive of scum and villainy as possible, I thought it was worth reposting:

What's in
Ideology Tree - this replaces the alignment system from GCII. You have three ideology trees, Benevolent, Pragmatic and Malevolent, you can get points from colonization events and certain planetary improvements and spend them to unlock bonuses in a tree. You can purchase bonuses from any of the trees, you are not limited to just one. Also the colonization events have been balanced compared to GCII, as in the "good"option also gets you bonuses.

Hex Map - pretty self-explanatory, GCII used squares, GCIII uses hexes.

Multiplayer - it has online multiplayer, the maximum number of human players mentioned by the developers is 4.

Technology Specialization - certain technologies from the research trees will let you choose a specialization, usually from a number of 3, these will give you bonuses like +10% to manufacturing or research. You can research all of them if you want to.

Strategic Resources - on the map there are resources that can be mined with a mining starbase. These are needed for certain ship components.

Colony Adjacency Bonuses - planetary improvements give bonuses to other building that are next to them, ex. place two factories next to each other and they will both get a bonus.

New Map Elements - for example black holes that stop ships from traveling through them, or a nebula which can reduce sensor range.

Shipyards In GCII planets had a dual queue, one for building and one for ships, in GCIII you have space shipyards that build the ships, you can add multiple planets as sponsors to one shipyard.

There are also smaller changes, starbases now have a different look for each civilization, the research trees have been modified, improved graphics, more options to the ship designer, etc. If anyone thinks I missed something important tell me.

Things to be added
United Planet Proposals - the UP will be back, and this time you can make proposals on what to be voted on.

Fleet Combat Decisions - you will have a little more control on how combat will play out.
Originally posted by Frogboy:
Those who like the idea of designing carriers and seeing carriers in action in fleet battles I think will be happy.

Those who imagine fleet battles that play like MOO2 (i.e. where you're micro managing individual units) will be less happy.

Originally posted by Frogboy:
What you'll have here is if you have support ships in your fleet you'll be able to set up some battle options before the fleet battle begins. its hard to describe, it's a bit magic the gathering (select what you want to do at the start). but you won't be controlling the ships directly. The problem is that people would feel forced to micro manage their battles in order to get an optimal result.

100+ opponents in a game
Originally posted by Frogboy:
One of our objectives is for people to have the option to play new "Immense" sized maps where there might be hundreds of empires playing. We have a lot of different ideas on how to make this work (few people are going to want to have to select 130 opponents to play against). We might use Steamworks Workshop to allow players to share their custom made players and once approved have automatically added as additional AI players into games where a player wants to play a game with a truly insanely large galaxy.

Steam Workshop Integration - for easy distribution of mods. The game in general will be more modable, galaxy sizes, events, lots of things will be modable.

Regarding AI
Originally posted by Frogboy:
One of the biggest changes you'll see in the AI is data mining. Simply put, player ship designs and tactics are going to be stored on the cloud so that the AI can do data mining on it. I don't plan to actually design the ships this time around but instead look at the stats of the global player force and pick from that.

So the top Drengin player won't be the hard coded AI player I put in but more like the top rated human player.

Things that will not be in the base game
Espionage - the developers want to do it right and do not believe there is enough time to include it, maybe in an expansion

5 civilizations - Arceans, Torians, these two may return in DLC, Drath, Korath, Korx.

Terror Stars - not certain.

[Brad Wardell]

Hi guys. Sorry I haven't posted in a while.

I have some exclusive GalCiv III diplomacy feature stuff for OO to share with you this week. Basically, I've been designing a schema for AI diplomacy modding.

[Lassr]

[Island Dog]

Beta 1 patch 1 is available today. It addresses the laptop graphic chipset issues, various other fixes, and the option to suspend shipyard production.

The changelog is here.

[Brad Wardell]

Hey guys!

I am so so sorry about not being more active on OO. I lurk on here a lot but it'a always via a tablet and posting without a keyboard is a pain.

I wanted to share with you guys some of the stuff we're doing with regards to diplomacy on GalCiv III. On most forums, the regulars aren't as technically proficient as you guys so a lot of what I'd post wouldn't mean much. But I think you guys will get a kick out of what we're doing.

Galactic Civilizations II
In GalCiv II I hard-coded every diplomatic / negotiation / trade deal / communication between the player and the AI. Doing this made it possible to have a really sophisticated diplomacy system between players and the computer on a reasonable budget. It's one of the big reasons why you could have a "relationship" with the AI players that felt different. They wouldn't simply gang up on you if you were winning or randomly declare war because there was a ton (thousands of lines) of C++ code managing this stuff.

The drawback is that it's not extensible at all. The player was totally at the mercy of the coder (me) to "get it right" and it greatly limited the variety in the alien diversity because if I hadn't come up with it, it wasn't in there.

Galactic Civilizations III
Now, in GalCiv III, one of our big goals is to make a game where players might be dealing with dozens or even HUNDREDS of alien players (a major reason why it's 64-bit). It's just not practical for a single person to try to come up with that many different play styles for the AI.

So we've developed a new XML Schema that data-drives diplomacy. I'm not aware of any strategy game that has done this before (and it would absolutely have killed GalCiv II's performance if we had tried it back then).

The way it works is as follows:
XML based data defines any number of different traits that can be assigned to an AI player. For example, you could define a player as "Xenophobic". Then, you can create various activities (in XML) that might amplify a particular player action IF they have that trait.

Example:
You've built a cultural starbase too close to the Thurlon colony.

Looking through the triggers XML files, it can then have the AI player come up and say:

"You have built a cultural starbase too close to Captira IV. We demand you dismantle it immediately!"

This specifically chosen response here is totally data driven. I'll will probably write a half dozen different ways this could be expressed to the player based on their race, your race, your relations, their traits, their alliances, etc. (all in XML). We also hired a writer from Cracked.com to help me on the writing on this to add even more.

Similarly, YOUR possible responses to them are data driven as well and up to N (based on our UI constraints) best fit responses will be chosen such as:

"Oh, we are sorry. We will dismantle it immediately!"
"I wasn't aware you have culture. Maybe you should mind your own business."
"Yea, that cultural starbase is pretty wild. I saw your kids there last week.."

Each response would have various consequences attached to it which are in turn modified by the speaking player and the listening player's traits.

As a result, each time you play, you should see different types of correspondence come up.

Moreover, because it'll be trivially easy for anyone with writing skills, a text editor and some basic tech knowledge to upload additional conversations, what comes up with get more and more and more sophisticated as the game matures.

We think conversation extensions will become a major Steamworkshop item before the beta is even done because unlike your typical "mod", these mods won't step on each other in the same way most mods can.


Here's an example of one:

Code: Select all

<AIAllConversations>
	<SpeakingPlayer>
	<Topic>Topic_InfluenceStarbaseTooClose</Topic>
	<Relations_Minimum>-9</Relations_Minimum>
	<Relations_Maximum>7</Relations_Maximum>
	<Ideology>1<Ideology>
	<Text>You have an Cultural Starbase outpost right on my border. Our people want nothing of your disgusting culture. We demand you remove it.</Text>
	<Text>The Cultural Outpost you have built on our border disgusts us. We insist you remove it immediately!"
	<Text>I can hear the noise your people call "Music" coming from your Cultural outpost built on the edge of our space from here! You must remove it now.
</SpeakingPlayer>

<ListeningPlayer>
	<Topic>Topic_InfluenceStarbaseTooClose</Topic>
	<Relations_Minimum>-4</Relations_Minimum>
	<Relations_Maximum>9</Relations_Maximum>
	<Ideology>2<Ideology>
	<Text>Our apologies, <Speaking_Player_Name>, we will dismantle it immediately.<Text>
<Text>We value our relationship with the <Speaking_Empire_Shortname>. We will dismantle the starbase immediately.<Text>
	<Consequences>
		<AIRelationModifier>Player_Complied_with_our_request_ReStarbase. </AIRelationModifier>
		<GameAction>RemoveSpecifiedStarbase</GameAction>
		</Consequences>
		</Topic>

	<Topic>Topic_InfluenceStarbaseTooClose</Topic>
	<Relations_Minimum>-9</Relations_Minimum>
	<Relations_Maximum>-3</Relations_Maximum>
	<Ideology>1<Ideology>
	<Text>No kidding we won't remove it. Your culture sucks. We look forward to introducing your primitive race to a real ideology and a real culture. <Text>
<Text>You must be joking. Of course you are, you are a joke. We won't be removing our starbase.<Text>
	<Consequences>
		<AIRelationModifier>Player_Refused_To_Remove_Starbase_InsultedUs. </AIRelationModifier>
		</Consequences>
		</Topic>

	<Topic>Topic_InfluenceStarbaseTooClose</Topic>
	<Relations_Minimum>-5</Relations_Minimum>
	<Relations_Maximum>4</Relations_Maximum>
	<Ideology>-1<Ideology>
	<Race_Requirement>Inorganic</Race_Requirement>
	<Text> Our disgusting culture would be a huge improvement over whatever it is you call a culture.<Text>
<Text>Our culture would be the best thing for your people. I mean, seriously, your culture involves what? doing the robot? Hah! The robot? You see what I did there? Of course not.<Text>
	<Consequences>
		<AIRelationModifier>Player_Refused_To_Remove_Starbase_InsultedUs. </AIRelationModifier>
		</Consequences>
		</Topic>

	<Topic>Topic_InfluenceStarbaseTooClose</Topic>
	<Relations_Minimum>-2</Relations_Minimum>
	<Relations_Maximum>9</Relations_Maximum>
	<Ideology>-1<Ideology>
	<Text>What we build in our territory is our business. .<Text>
<Text>I'm afraid we cannot comply with your request.<Text>
	<Consequences>
		<AIRelationModifier>Player_Refused_To_Remove_Starbase. </AIRelationModifier>
		</Consequences>
		</Topic>
	</ListeningPlayer>
</AIAllConversations>

Now, when the diplomacy stuff first comes out, all this is gonna be pretty primitive because there will be hardly any content. But as time goes on, it'll get more and more sophisticated.

[tgb]

Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

[Lassr]

That sounds like it has great potential. Thanks for sharing.

[Pyperkub]

Thanks for sharing Brad!

[Zenn7]

I enjoyed GC2 well enough, but what I remember the most about the game was the manual - quite entertaining!

[gbasden]

That sounds pretty awesome, Brad! Thanks for sharing!

[Kraken]

I like the dialog system -- I was once the writer for a game that tried to do something similar (but failed), so I know how hard it is to write a thousand dialog strings in multiple personalities for every contingency. I'm less fond of the text strings in your examples, which I hope were just throwaways for illustration.

I'm sort of a formalist. Although comic relief is fun here and there, I'd rather see dialog taken seriously than consistently played for laughs. Hiring a cracked.com writer sets off alarm bells. I like their stuff in its place (e.g., my facebook feed) but I'm skeptical about putting it in a serious sf game.

I do like a game to have personality, just not a sophomoric personality.

[ydejin]

I'm sort of a formalist. Although comic relief is fun here and there, I'd rather see dialog taken seriously than consistently played for laughs. Hiring a cracked.com writer sets off alarm bells. I like their stuff in its place (e.g., my facebook feed) but I'm skeptical about putting it in a serious sf game.

I do like a game to have personality, just not a sophomoric personality.

Same for me.

[dbt1949]

Ditto

[jztemple2]

Ditto for me as well, I've run into this cheesy humor device too many times, it rarely remains funny over the course of a long game like GCIII.

[Lassr]

after looking through the text I see what you mean.
this would get old real quick.

<Text>Our culture would be the best thing for your people. I mean, seriously, your culture involves what? doing the robot? Hah! The robot? You see what I did there? Of course not.<Text>

I don't mind the sarcastic answers such as

<Text> Our disgusting culture would be a huge improvement over whatever it is you call a culture.<Text>

[jztemple2]

Captain Brad of the good ship GCIII...

[Kraken]

Geez, I expected that to be a minority opinion. Nice to know that I'm not alone, and that Brad might be listening.

Maybe jokey dialog is a plus for a young audience. Not so much among adults.

[AWS260]

What a bunch of crotchety old men. Bring on the space-jokes!

[jztemple2]

What a bunch of crotchety old men. Bring on the space-jokes!

In space no one can hear your bones become brittle.

[Jeff V]

My concern is that with all the interactions being hard-coded, the game could become predictable after a time (repetitive dialogue notwithstanding). Unless (and I didn't get really get this from reading your description, Brad), AI player profiles contain some randomness so that response B doesn't necessarily follow response A for a particular race. Major personality traits (along with default relations with other players) should remain somewhat predictable -- goals and playing style for example. Some of the deeper diplomacy should have random elements though to keep players guessing. Using your example, failure to withdraw the starbase may or may not result in a war, depending on the variable aggression of the threatening player (what that race "knows" about the opponent should also be a contributing factor as well so a weak AI doesn't frequently commit suicide declaring war against a powerful human opponent).

So far, the best diplomatic AI I've seen in a 4X game was SMAC. At the time, I thought we were ushering in a new era of artificial personalities...but I've been disappointed in all subsequent efforts. I hope yours turns out well!

One other though regarding the dialog. It all becomes tiresome after a bit, and is just background noise. You might consider "crowdsourcing" this...pose the situation, and solicit responses. I'm not a code monkey, and I don't know how big these dialog files can become before they hurt performance...but if you get sufficient community support, these files can be refreshed every time you update the game keeping the dialog fresh and new. And for the record, I don't mind flippant or comedic responses -- if I was POTUS and Canada started complaining about a Montana border town spreading its decadent culture to Saskatchewan, I would probably mock them derisively too.

[dbemont]

Geez, I expected that to be a minority opinion. Nice to know that I'm not alone, and that Brad might be listening.

Maybe jokey dialog is a plus for a young audience. Not so much among adults.

I think there's a business choice involved.

First playthrough or two, jokes and wisecracks are a plus for most people, if reasonably well done. Comes across as a game having personality.

But for the crowd that plays a game over and over, those jokes become cringe-worthy. Very few people like the same jokes over and over... unless it is their own

[jztemple2]

But for the crowd that plays a game over and over, those jokes become cringe-worthy. Very few people like the same jokes over and over... unless it is their own

You mean like "I used to write dialog for 4X space games till I took an arrow in the knee?"

[Island Dog]

Beta 2 has arrived!

Diplomacy – Make friends, broker deals, and threaten uppity neighbors in your bid for galactic dominance

Trade – Boost your economy through trade, or take a more proactive approach by raiding enemy trade routes

The United Planets – Enact game-altering edicts, embargo your rivals, or face the wrath of a galaxy united by defying the council’s resolutions

The Krynn – Take control of the Krynn faction: a conglomeration of alien species whose government is in the pocket of organized crime

Expanded Interface – Effortlessly command a galaxy full of colonies and fleets with rally points, mass upgrades, and more

[tgb]

Downloaded and looking forward to testing it this afternoon.

[tgb]

A couple of questions about the new build:

1) How do you make diplomatic contact with another race? Drengin ships have been flying past my colonies, plus they now border my territory. I've researched alien languages, but they still don't show up in the diplomacy screen.

2) What do you have to research to be able to build mines at you space stations? I've got stations next to some resources, but the build mine order is still grayed out.