Fallout 4

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:57 pm

This may be the game that makes me break down and buy a next (current?) gen console. I just hope Bethesda takes some lessons from Obsidion's Fallout: New Vegas as I thought NV improved on Fallout 3 in just about every respect (story, scaling, openness of the world, characters, etc).

Suitably Ironic Moniker · Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:58 pm

"Relatively unscathed" in that there was enough left of the city to allow it to be recognizable, and not just one big pile of rubble.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:06 pm

Suitably Ironic Moniker wrote:"Relatively unscathed" in that there was enough left of the city to allow it to be recognizable, and not just one big pile of rubble.

I mean, if they did NYC I imagine that they would have shells of skyscrapers in Manhattan (would the frames of some skyscrapers survive an A-bomb?), plus the head of the Statute of Liberty, plus you could have the shell of Yankee Stadium (no doubt containing a militia calling themselves the Bronx Bombers), maybe find half of the Wall St. bull lying around, stuff like that.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:06 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:This may be the game that makes me break down and buy a next (current?) gen console. I just hope Bethesda takes some lessons from Obsidion's Fallout: New Vegas as I thought NV improved on Fallout 3 in just about every respect (story, scaling, openness of the world, characters, etc).

Yeah...with this plus DA: Inquisition plus the inevitable Mass Effect 4, it's probably a matter of time for me.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:17 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:This may be the game that makes me break down and buy a next (current?) gen console. I just hope Bethesda takes some lessons from Obsidion's Fallout: New Vegas as I thought NV improved on Fallout 3 in just about every respect (story, scaling, openness of the world, characters, etc).

I always felt that NV improved on FO3 in every way except for the world. Exploring the FO3 wasteland was head and shoulders above exploring the Mojave. New Vegas felt like a series of set pieces, while FO3 gave a feeling that there was something to be discovered around every turn and over every hill.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:00 pm

I have already hit that point where my PC won't play the latest games so this would be one more game I would get in about 2017 or so when I finally break down and get a new PC. By then they will all be cheap on steam though.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:02 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Suitably Ironic Moniker wrote:"Relatively unscathed" in that there was enough left of the city to allow it to be recognizable, and not just one big pile of rubble.
I mean, if they did NYC I imagine that they would have shells of skyscrapers in Manhattan (would the frames of some skyscrapers survive an A-bomb?), plus the head of the Statute of Liberty, plus you could have the shell of Yankee Stadium (no doubt containing a militia calling themselves the Bronx Bombers), maybe find half of the Wall St. bull lying around, stuff like that.

There aren't many tall skyscrapers in DC and certainly not as tall as what's in NYC so probably many of the buildings should be rubble but I guess it's all dependent on what the designers need. Central Park would make a great war zone and Governors Island or Ellis Island could be a stronghold. It's not post-apocalyptic NYC without the Statue of Liberty and all bets are off on whether or not the Hudson or East rivers even have water. The NY Public Library would make for a nice stronghold too. Don't forget the Deathclaws roaming the swamps of Jersey.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:23 pm

$iljanus wrote: Don't forget the Deathclaws roaming the swamps of Jersey.

And as a side benefit, they could just re-use current renderings of Jersey to save time.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:45 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Hopefully they do things in such a way as to add some environmental variety to the game this time. Between the Capitol Wasteland and the Mojave, I'm ready for somewhere that isn't flat. Do the city, fine, but also give me a sprawling 50s suburb and a forest!

The thing is, forests don't really fit in with the Fallout motif. There was a small forest in Fallout 3, but it had a very specific story reason for being there, and it was not a holdover from the pre-war era. Fallout would lose some of its identity if it suddenly got lush, even if it was only part of the game.

If you want a lush wasteland, try Wasteland 2. That's a different post-apocalyptic scenario where there's plenty of vegetation.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:58 pm

Except that they did have environmental variety in the DLC.

AjD · Post by **AjD** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:12 pm

$iljanus wrote:I guess it's all dependent on what the designers need. Central Park would make a great war zone and Governors Island or Ellis Island could be a stronghold. It's not post-apocalyptic NYC without the Statue of Liberty and all bets are off on whether or not the Hudson or East rivers even have water. The NY Public Library would make for a nice stronghold too. Don't forget the Deathclaws roaming the swamps of Jersey.

It's definitely fun to imagine what sort of game Fallout: NYC would be. New York has so many iconic locations, with such rich historical (and contemporary) context. I am sure the game designers would have an absolute field day with it.

Actually... I'll go on record to say I'll be surprised if Bethesda locates the next Fallout in Boston. Yes, Boston has clear connections to existing Fallout lore, and yes, Boston played an important role in U.S. history, many years ago.

But Boston is not iconic. Especially when viewed from an international perspective. The Fallout series is now a huge worldwide hit. And the city of Boston has nowhere near the mind share of American cities like Washington DC, Las Vegas and New York. Particularly overseas. Heck, most Americans probably couldn't identify more than a few locations in Boston. Let alone someone from Kyoto, Dublin or Dusseldorf. And part of the fun in Fallout is exploring a once familiar setting to see how things have changed.

What I'm saying is - I'm sure Fallout: Barcelona would be a huge hit in Spain. But it certainly would limit the appeal for non-Spanish gamers. So, I'll be surprised if Bethesda ever releases a Fallout: Boston (unless it's some sort of DLC).

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:34 pm

I guess we'll wait and see. In real life, I'm not really a big fan of visiting NYC, but I guess it wouldn't be too bad in Fallout because the computer doesn't render the awful stench, I wouldn't have to breathe in the choking smog, the nukes would have fried all the vehicle electronics and you can just shoot the local douchebags. Still pulling for Boston though. But I'll be happy as long as the center piece is a city. Fallout 3 had much more interesting architecture and landmarks than New Vegas - compare a ruined city scape to a bunch of corrugated metal shacks.

AjD · Post by **AjD** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:58 pm

NickAragua wrote:Still pulling for Boston though. But I'll be happy as long as the center piece is a city. Fallout 3 had much more interesting architecture and landmarks than New Vegas - compare a ruined city scape to a bunch of corrugated metal shacks.

Well, you might still get your wish... almost a year-and-a-half ago, Kotoku published leaked documents that seemed to all-but-confirm that Fallout 4 will be set in Boston. And that was after the Survivor2299 hoax...

So who knows what they'll really do? From a market-share standpoint (heck, exploration/gameplay too), Boston seems like an odd move to me. But maybe the Fallout brand is so strong at this point, Bethesda can set the game wherever they want (within reason) & still sell a boatload.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:05 pm

I'm just excited that they're slowly creating the world of Auto Duel and that eventually someone can create a mod that would allow you stitch all the games and DLC together and drive a car around Wasteland America.

Washington DC
Anchorage
California
Virginia
Pittsburgh
Maryland
Las Vegas

And now maybe Boston? We're almost there!

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:15 pm

Smoove_B wrote:I'm just excited that they're slowly creating the world of Auto Duel and that eventually someone can create a mod that would allow you stitch all the games and DLC together and drive a car around Wasteland America.

Washington DC
Anchorage
California
Virginia
Pittsburgh
Maryland
Las Vegas

And now maybe Boston? We're almost there!

That would be quite awesome! Or perhaps they can base it on Damnation Alley and have that cool vehicle they used in the movie. Road trip!

Edit: Hmm, from the description of the original book by Roger Zelazny:

Hell Tanner isn't the sort of guy you'd mistake for a hero: he's a fast-driving car thief, a smuggler, and a stone-cold killer. He's also expendable - at least in the eyes of the Secretary of Traffic for the Nation of California. Tanner doesn't care much for those eyes. You'd also never mistake Hell Tanner for a humanitarian. Facing life in prison for his various crimes, he's given a choice; rot away his remaining years in a tiny jail cell, or drive cross-country and deliver a case of antiserum to the plague-ridden people of Boston, Massachusetts...if anyone is still alive there to receive it, that is. The chance of a full pardon does wonders for getting his attention. And don't mistake this mission of mercy for any kind of normal road trip - not when there are radioactive storms, hordes of carniverous beasts, and giant, mutated scorpions to be found along every deadly mile between Los Angeles and the East Coast. But then, this is no normal part of America, you see. This is DAMNATION ALLEY...

Wow, much more interesting than the movie. Kindle here I come. (and would still make for a great computer game)

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:22 pm

I think it was during speculation of Fallout 3 about people wondering if it was Gamma World they were making. I still wonder off and on about a Gamma World setting game.

AjD · Post by **AjD** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:30 am

This was a great, funny read (just posted on Destructoid) about the agonizingly long wait for Fallout 4 news - I can relate to a lot of this!

Some choice bits:

I restarted the game with the kind of guy I thought the wasteland would need the least. I gave my new character a spirit of raw curiosity. A person less interested in the right or wrong of something, but driven to explore and experiment, regardless of the outcome.... He had a mild phobia of guns, preferring to dive into melee swinging a baseball bat or knife with his skinny arms, or better yet, to just toss grenades at his problems. I found the Vault 101 Utility suit with the red converse sneakers in the opening tutorial and kept him in them the whole game. Fuck leather jackets and metal knee braces, I was going to face the end of the world looking like a hipster janitor.

And...

I want to feel that excitement again. Skyrim was great, but for as much fun as I had with its dragons and necromancers, a part of me was always wistful for the nuclear ashes of America circa 2277. Obsidian’s New Vegas was a good dose for keeping the shakes at bay, with some welcome mechanics that made soft-skills more important and some colorful characters (all hail “kai-sar”). But its endless brown deserts and frustratingly lethal wildlife left me cold. It felt like the game was always trying to punish me for going off the beaten trail and trying to explore it like the Capital Wasteland.

I want to see what the A-team can do. I want to see what Bethesda has learned from Skyrim, what ideas it can poach from New Vegas, and what it'll leave on the cutting-room floor. I want to return to the wasteland, see what kind of stories it has left to tell, what kind of characters are still rattling around in the grave of the old world. I'm hungry for it, ready to chomp down on any scrap of news, hell, I'd be happy even for the meager crumbs of a teaser trailer, anything.

AjD · Post by **AjD** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:07 am

Bethesda just sent out invites to their E3 presentation in June. Take a look...

Destructoid thinks this is a pretty big "tell" that the game being showcased will be Fallout 4.

Sometimes what isn't said is most important. Bethesda, creator of the Elder Scrolls and the newer series of Fallout games, has sent out invites for its E3 press conference that takes place on Sunday, June 14. Pictured on the invite are reserved seats for characters from various Bethesda series such as Wolfenstein, Elder Scrolls, and even Doom, but Fallout is distinctly missing. Hell, even The Evil Within has representation. So does this mean that Fallout characters weren't invited to the press conference, or does this mean that they will be on stage?

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:17 pm

My biggest hope for Fallout 4 is that they hire a writer who actually gets the setting. Fallout's use of protagonists and antagonists is unusual in many ways, and every single entry in the series since Fallout 2, except New Vegas, has failed to grasp the basic concepts behind it. Fallout 3 was a great game, but the setting didn't feel right. It was like stepping into some bizarro alternate reality instead of it being a sequel to Fallout 2.

I've found that the easiest way to identify whether or not someone understands the setting is to look at how they portray the Brotherhood of Steel. If they're the heroic organization that steps in to save humanity (like in Fallout 3 and Fallout Tactics, for example), the writer has no idea what setting he's writing for. The Brotherhood of Steel doesn't care if humanity rots. Heck, they might prefer it as it would make it easier to find and maintain technology without having unqualified people fuck it all up for them. In Fallout 1, the BoS is antagonistic to the player until he can either do something for them, or he can prove that there's an external force that directly threatens the BoS. In Fallout 2, they keep supporting the player (and ignoring the rest of the world) only because they want him to destroy their personal enemies for them. In Fallout: New Vegas, they just keep to themselves and are willing to slaughter anyone who threatens to expose them. In Fallout 3, they patrol and protect the wasteland. Uh, say what?

The BoS is the most obvious tell, but there were plenty others. Fallout 3, for all its strengths, felt wrong for a long-time Fallout fan, while Fallout: New Vegas took a 180-degree turn and felt right again. I just hope Bethesda realizes why this is the case.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:25 pm

AjD wrote:Bethesda just sent out invites to their E3 presentation in June. Take a look...

Destructoid thinks this is a pretty big "tell" that the game being showcased will be Fallout 4.

Sometimes what isn't said is most important. Bethesda, creator of the Elder Scrolls and the newer series of Fallout games, has sent out invites for its E3 press conference that takes place on Sunday, June 14. Pictured on the invite are reserved seats for characters from various Bethesda series such as Wolfenstein, Elder Scrolls, and even Doom, but Fallout is distinctly missing. Hell, even The Evil Within has representation. So does this mean that Fallout characters weren't invited to the press conference, or does this mean that they will be on stage?

ehhhhhhhhhhh...that's grasping at straws. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but this is pretty worthless as evidence either way.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:09 pm

I think with the timing and since their own FO3 they have to announce FO4 now.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:10 pm

Daehawk wrote:I think with the timing and since their own FO3 they have to announce FO4 now.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was just amused by the "they don't say anything about Fallout 4 here...doesn't that mean that they're going to say something about Fallout 4???" logic here.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:10 pm

TiLT wrote:In Fallout 3, they patrol and protect the wasteland. Uh, say what?

Uh, you did play the game right? And you do know that there were two BOS factions in the DC area, one of whom was exactly like the ones out West, and the beneficent attitude of the other towards the wastelanders was explained? It's not likely they totally ignored the issue you raise.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:14 pm

TiLT wrote:My biggest hope for Fallout 4 is that they hire a writer who actually gets the setting. Fallout's use of protagonists and antagonists is unusual in many ways, and every single entry in the series since Fallout 2, except New Vegas, has failed to grasp the basic concepts behind it. Fallout 3 was a great game, but the setting didn't feel right. It was like stepping into some bizarro alternate reality instead of it being a sequel to Fallout 2.

. In Fallout 3, they patrol and protect the wasteland. Uh, say what?

The BoS is the most obvious tell, but there were plenty others. Fallout 3, for all its strengths, felt wrong for a long-time Fallout fan, while Fallout: New Vegas took a 180-degree turn and felt right again. I just hope Bethesda realizes why this is the case.

FO3 they were basically an off-shoot of the BoS. Basically, they didn't believe they should ignore the suffering. but there were faction that kept to the core mission if I remember correctly

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:16 pm

Grifman wrote:
TiLT wrote:In Fallout 3, they patrol and protect the wasteland. Uh, say what?
Uh, you did play the game right? And you do know that there were two BOS factions in the DC area, one of whom was exactly like the ones out West, and the beneficent attitude of the other towards the wastelanders was explained? It's not likely they totally ignored the issue you raise.

I played through that game twice, and while there was internal disagreement in the BoS, it didn't matter when the behavior of the Brotherhood at large was changed into the hero organization casual Fallout fans seem to think they are. I never got the feeling that any of the people in Fallout 3's BoS were anything like the earlier games (or New Vegas, for that matter). That there's even internal discussion about this stuff in their version of the BoS is a problem, as their mission description is very clear: Hunker down, protect military technology, and wait for civilization to rise again. Patrolling and protecting the wasteland directly contradicts their mission.

I'm using the Brotherhood of Steel as an example. Everything that returned from earlier games was changed for inexplicable reasons. It's just the BoS that's easiest to see.

Edit: Here's another obvious thing that was changed for mass-market appeal, despite contradicting earlier games: The super mutants. Fallout 1 made them extinct, and Fallout 2 featured the last few surviving super mutants in their elder years. Then suddenly Fallout 3 is crawling with fresh super mutants. Sure, they've got paper-thin explanations in the game, but we all know why the super mutants are there: Because they are cool. Again, New Vegas had to scramble to get the setting back under control, again turning the super mutants into a half-extinct race with no future.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:29 pm

Actually, that would be a pretty cool premise in itself. You'd start off being a BOS member, but as you progress through the game, you'd either continue in the BOS, or join other factions as you start to learn more about what's going on in the BOS and the world around you.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:33 pm

TiLT wrote:Edit: Here's another obvious thing that was changed for mass-market appeal, despite contradicting earlier games: The super mutants. Fallout 1 made them extinct, and Fallout 2 featured the last few surviving super mutants in their elder years. Then suddenly Fallout 3 is crawling with fresh super mutants. Sure, they've got paper-thin explanations in the game, but we all know why the super mutants are there: Because they are cool. Again, New Vegas had to scramble to get the setting back under control, again turning the super mutants into a half-extinct race with no future.

So?

Your original argument was they didn't understand the Fallout setting, but the fact they had justifications at all for why those seemingly familiar factions were in the east undercuts that line of reasoning.

You may not like the changes they made, but they work perfectly well given the setting.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:55 pm

Rumpy wrote:Actually, that would be a pretty cool premise in itself. You'd start off being a BOS member, but as you progress through the game, you'd either continue in the BOS, or join other factions as you start to learn more about what's going on in the BOS and the world around you.

Ive always wanted to do that.

And in that mind set Id like a new Fallout Tactics game where I found a new BOS chapter myself and choose an open world place for the base. Then Id recruit members and send out missions and such.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:31 pm

Sepiche wrote:
TiLT wrote:Edit: Here's another obvious thing that was changed for mass-market appeal, despite contradicting earlier games: The super mutants. Fallout 1 made them extinct, and Fallout 2 featured the last few surviving super mutants in their elder years. Then suddenly Fallout 3 is crawling with fresh super mutants. Sure, they've got paper-thin explanations in the game, but we all know why the super mutants are there: Because they are cool. Again, New Vegas had to scramble to get the setting back under control, again turning the super mutants into a half-extinct race with no future.
So?

Your original argument was they didn't understand the Fallout setting, but the fact they had justifications at all for why those seemingly familiar factions were in the east undercuts that line of reasoning.

You may not like the changes they made, but they work perfectly well given the setting.

They made a Fallout game swarming with BoS paladins that act more like D&D paladins, and they littered the wasteland with super mutants (that rightly shouldn't be there) as if they were orcs.

If they understood the setting, they wouldn't do this. Justifications make little difference to my argument.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:31 pm

I understand your opinion, and I know you won't be convinced, however...

TiLT wrote:... and they littered the wasteland with super mutants (that rightly shouldn't be there) as if they were orcs.

But they were there.

Super mutants are all created from FEV which the Master found in the remains of the West Tek lab, independently of the experiments done in vault 87, and there's nothing in FO1 or 2 to indicate that the master had found the only stockpiles of FEV.

TiLT wrote:If they understood the setting, they wouldn't do this. Justifications make little difference to my argument.

No, if they didn't understand the setting they just would have plopped the BoS in the east, had them act in whatever manner they wanted, and never reconciled that with the way the BoS acts in the first two games. They do however acknowledge the Eastern BoS acts differently, and in an interesting, reasonable way.

Again, you may not like what they chose to do (and clearly you don't

), but there is no more justification for making all the BoS factions act in exactly the same manner than there is for some factions of the BoS to change their beliefs over time. Given that the Eastern BoS members were originally sent east in part *because* they disagreed with the rest of the BoS makes it all the more reasonable to me that they would act on those different beliefs once they had the freedom to do so.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:22 pm

There are a few contradictions, but FO3 was half a continent away in a time where half a continent might as well be the other side of the world, and it was published a decade after the last core Fallout game. After that long, I don't mind them doing a few 'reboot' tweaks in order to make it viable for a different kind of gameplay.

I just hope the next one has a few more original things put into it.

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:23 pm

Pillars of Eternity has Paladins that are slightly more honorable mercenaries.

It never hurts to mix up the formula over the years. What people forget was that it's been 18 years since Fallout 1 came out. It may seem like just yesterday, and that they've rushed into spinning off various groups into new tropes. But it really has been a long time in the real world. Meanwhile, the Fallout setting's timeline has advanced for much longer than that.

So mixing it up is a good thing.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:52 am

Announcement should be happening soon...

And here you go.

EDIT: Between this and the Witcher 3, it might seal the deal on a new computer for me this Fall.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:34 am

Woo, one day until Fallout Online: Mobile is announced!

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:08 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Woo, one day until Fallout Online: Mobile is announced!

You go straight to hell Mr. Blackhawk.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:34 pm

the info guessing game

But...but what if its a Fallout cooking sim?

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:52 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Woo, one day until Fallout Online: Mobile is announced!

Actually, along those lines, I'm surprised F1/2 haven't been released on mobiles, the way the Baldur's Gates have.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:34 pm

Blackhawk wrote:Woo, one day until Fallout Online: Mobile is announced!

Fallout Tactics 2 Mobile: The Even Harder to Beat Edition

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:48 pm

baelthazar wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:Woo, one day until Fallout Online: Mobile is announced!
Fallout Tactics 2 Mobile: The Even Harder to Beat Edition

Luckily there will be in app purchases you can make to boost your character!

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:57 pm

O, please let the rumored Boston setting be true. I've enjoyed the games in the desert but that's alien to me. Boston and MIT are my backyard.