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[Stardock] Star Control

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by NickAragua » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:04 pm

Glad it did well enough to warrant a season pass.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Daehawk » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:49 pm

$29.99 on Steam right now
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Island Dog » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:13 pm

First part of Earth Rising is available this week. :)

https://www.stardock.com/games/starcont ... cle/492036


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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by confab » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:51 pm

The game's getting taken down from Steam and GOG due to a DMCA notice from Paul Reiche III and Fred Ford: link to Steam announcement
Valve assures us that anyone who has already bought the game should be able to continue to play it.

Unfortunately, without the income from Star Control: Origins, Stardock will have to lay off some of the men and women who are assigned to the game.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by jztemple2 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:56 pm

confab wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:51 pm
The game's getting taken down from Steam and GOG due to a DMCA notice from Paul Reiche III and Fred Ford: link to Steam announcement
Valve assures us that anyone who has already bought the game should be able to continue to play it.

Unfortunately, without the income from Star Control: Origins, Stardock will have to lay off some of the men and women who are assigned to the game.
Well, that's annoying for Stardock I'm sure. And to me it doesn't sound smart for Reiche and Ford either. If they really believe they are due some compensation then let the game continue to be sold and make more money, which they can get in a settlement if they prevail. What this does, according to the announcement, is put people out of work. I hope Stardock is successful in getting things back on track and getting those people back to work.
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by NickAragua » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:51 am

Seriously? I was kind of neutral in this before, but now I'm firmly on Stardock's side. Way to "stick it to the man", asswipes. What was the last game those two chuckleheads made?

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by baelthazar » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:31 am

NickAragua wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:51 am
Seriously? I was kind of neutral in this before, but now I'm firmly on Stardock's side. Way to "stick it to the man", asswipes. What was the last game those two chuckleheads made?
Yeah, I am with you. I was sad that this was such a squabble before, but any good will I had for Reiche and Ford has evaporated. I was already trending against them when they used GoFundMe to raise legal defense money, but to DMCA a game like this with no clear claim seems ridiculous.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:01 pm

I don't know all the ins and outs of the lawsuit and claims, but from the bit I've read it seems pretty clear (from emails) that Stardock knew they didn't own the rights to using certain assets and/or ideas from the original Star Control games but went ahead and used them anyway. It sucks that the game is pulled, but it seems like Stardock brought this on themselves.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:32 pm

I now regret not buying this earlier. Chances are it will be back, but if it isn't I'll be pirating it. I don't give 2 shits about who owns what assets.

IP law is there to encourage creative works, not suppress them.

Bickering between IP owners is about as useful to the public as a kick in the nuts.

I'll also pirate the precursors game if it ever reaches publication, which I don't expect.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by RMC » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:49 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:32 pm
I now regret not buying this earlier. Chances are it will be back, but if it isn't I'll be pirating it. I don't give 2 shits about who owns what assets.

IP law is there to encourage creative works, not suppress them.

Bickering between IP owners is about as useful to the public as a kick in the nuts.

I'll also pirate the precursors game if it ever reaches publication, which I don't expect.
I am assuming that Stardock will have the game on alternate sources to purchase from eventually. So that shouldn't be an issue. But man, I thought this was all settled, or at least the major part of it was.. Guess not...
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:39 pm

RMC wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:49 pm

I am assuming that Stardock will have the game on alternate sources to purchase from eventually. So that shouldn't be an issue. But man, I thought this was all settled, or at least the major part of it was.. Guess not...
I'm not sure what you mean by alternate sources, but it will either be back on Steam (and GOG) or it won't be back at all. I can't imagine a scenario where Steam says "no thanks" but someone else says "sure, why not". At least not legally. Although I guess if Stardock wants to deal with the DMCA crap while they work through the legal system for the rest, they could sell it through their website.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Max Peck » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:45 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:39 pm
RMC wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:49 pm

I am assuming that Stardock will have the game on alternate sources to purchase from eventually. So that shouldn't be an issue. But man, I thought this was all settled, or at least the major part of it was.. Guess not...
I'm not sure what you mean by alternate sources, but it will either be back on Steam (and GOG) or it won't be back at all.
If you really want the game, it appears that you can purchase it directly from Stardock.
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by MonkeyFinger » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:47 pm

And it's still available on GOG.
-mf

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:48 pm

MonkeyFinger wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:47 pm
And it's still available on GOG.
The article I read said it was being pulled from there too. I didn't bother to check their sources.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by MonkeyFinger » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:04 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:48 pm
MonkeyFinger wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:47 pm
And it's still available on GOG.
The article I read said it was being pulled from there too. I didn't bother to check their sources.
Interesting... going there now it seems a bit broken. Was working fine earlier but now it won't bring up my library, just spins.
-mf

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:23 am

MonkeyFinger wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:04 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:48 pm
The article I read said it was being pulled from there too. I didn't bother to check their sources.
Interesting... going there now it seems a bit broken. Was working fine earlier but now it won't bring up my library, just spins.
The article also said that you should be able to continue to play the game on Steam if you already own it. Sounds like the article (was some major game site, don't recall, Google news showed it to me) played a little loose with the facts, possibly.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Dave Allen » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:37 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:48 pm
The article I read said it was being pulled from there too. I didn't bother to check their sources.
Still GOG purchasable [ would make great, free publicity for Epic to add the title right now :tjg: ]
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Grifman » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:30 am

RMC wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:49 pm
GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:32 pm
I now regret not buying this earlier. Chances are it will be back, but if it isn't I'll be pirating it. I don't give 2 shits about who owns what assets.

IP law is there to encourage creative works, not suppress them.

Bickering between IP owners is about as useful to the public as a kick in the nuts.

I'll also pirate the precursors game if it ever reaches publication, which I don't expect.
I am assuming that Stardock will have the game on alternate sources to purchase from eventually. So that shouldn't be an issue. But man, I thought this was all settled, or at least the major part of it was.. Guess not...
I'm not certain how you thought this was settled. Both parties are suing each other and digging in. There's been no effort at compromise on either side.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:40 am

Grifman wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:30 am
I'm not certain how you thought this was settled. Both parties are suing each other and digging in. There's been no effort at compromise on either side.
The game exists. I think that's why he thought it was settled.

Again, the article I read said several attempts to reach an agreement had been made by both sides with no success. If this is wrong as well, then the only thing the article got right was the game title, and I'm not even sure about that.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by RMC » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:44 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:40 am
Grifman wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:30 am
I'm not certain how you thought this was settled. Both parties are suing each other and digging in. There's been no effort at compromise on either side.
The game exists. I think that's why he thought it was settled.

Again, the article I read said several attempts to reach an agreement had been made by both sides with no success. If this is wrong as well, then the only thing the article got right was the game title, and I'm not even sure about that.
Yeah, I figured it was all settled except for who pays whom what. Once the game was out in the wild, I figured each side was just letting the money to be paid to whom needs to be totalled. I am kind of shocked that you could buy something and then have someone come back and say, hey you bought only this portion of that, not this one. But heh, lawyers make lots of money for a reason I guess. :)
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Zarathud » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:12 am

Lawyers make money when their clients won't compromise. Sad.

Glad I purchased this -- it seemed to be a passion project for Stardock rather than a cash grab.
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by RMC » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:14 am

Zarathud wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:12 am
Lawyers make money when their clients won't compromise. Sad.

Glad I purchased this -- it seemed to be a passion project for Stardock rather than a cash grab.
Very true, and hopefully these two entities can work this out, but it seems both sides have positions where they feel that they are right and have no need to compromise.
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Drazzil » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:13 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:23 am
MonkeyFinger wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:04 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:48 pm
The article I read said it was being pulled from there too. I didn't bother to check their sources.
Interesting... going there now it seems a bit broken. Was working fine earlier but now it won't bring up my library, just spins.
The article also said that you should be able to continue to play the game on Steam if you already own it. Sounds like the article (was some major game site, don't recall, Google news showed it to me) played a little loose with the facts, possibly.
My spit take on this is that Paul and Fred need to gtfo and leave Stardock alone. They had their chance to buy the rights and did nothing with it for years. Now they want to sue when Brad and Stardock esentially brought the franchise back from the dead? Weak sauce.
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Max Peck » Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:57 pm

Drazzil wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:13 pm
GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:23 am
MonkeyFinger wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:04 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:48 pm
The article I read said it was being pulled from there too. I didn't bother to check their sources.
Interesting... going there now it seems a bit broken. Was working fine earlier but now it won't bring up my library, just spins.
The article also said that you should be able to continue to play the game on Steam if you already own it. Sounds like the article (was some major game site, don't recall, Google news showed it to me) played a little loose with the facts, possibly.
My spit take on this is that Paul and Fred need to gtfo and leave Stardock alone. They had their chance to buy the rights and did nothing with it for years. Now they want to sue when Brad and Stardock esentially brought the franchise back from the dead? Weak sauce.
That doesn't really seem to be what went down.

My take on the legal mess has been summed up nicely in an aptly hideous meme.
There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:35 pm

Do.
Not.
Care.

about the legal squabbling, and even less about the battle to win public opinion.

It's like watching game industry news as delivered by TMZ.

This sort of shit is why doors can be closed. So that it can go on behind them.

Edit:. Ok, that was in reference to the meme thread. The timeline thread was very interesting, thanks for posting it Max.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by NickAragua » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:31 pm

Bought via Stardock site (at 50% off right now, apparently, $20 US) because a) I want to play it and b) out of spite

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:34 pm

You might be spiting the wrong people.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by NickAragua » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:40 pm

It's possible.

Well, if and when Reiche and Ford release their Star Control game, I'll be probably be buying that as well.

My spite is mostly due to me being unable to play a game I want to play because of "copyright issues".

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Drazzil » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:41 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:57 pm
Drazzil wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:13 pm
GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:23 am
MonkeyFinger wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:04 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:48 pm
The article I read said it was being pulled from there too. I didn't bother to check their sources.
Interesting... going there now it seems a bit broken. Was working fine earlier but now it won't bring up my library, just spins.
The article also said that you should be able to continue to play the game on Steam if you already own it. Sounds like the article (was some major game site, don't recall, Google news showed it to me) played a little loose with the facts, possibly.
My spit take on this is that Paul and Fred need to gtfo and leave Stardock alone. They had their chance to buy the rights and did nothing with it for years. Now they want to sue when Brad and Stardock esentially brought the franchise back from the dead? Weak sauce.
That doesn't really seem to be what went down.

My take on the legal mess has been summed up nicely in an aptly hideous meme.
As a non consumer of any of the Star Control games, and again summing up what I just read, Paul and Fred had numerous opportunities to develop the license and passed em all up, to make things worse, now they post asking for cash for legal bills? Paul and Fred's time passed a long time ago. They needed to shit or get off the pot. They decided instead to shit in Stardock's pot, and now only the lawyers benefit.
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:04 pm

Perhaps, but it's clear that Stardock knew what they were doing was wrong, and now they are clearly trying to reshape the discussion so that the behaviour somehow isn't any longer, when Paul and Fred refused to play ball. It's also clear that Stardock didn't enter into this with the intention of stealing IP, but when left with no alternative (except stopping, I guess) they went ahead anyway.

This isn't the first time I've read about Wardell pulling some pretty shady crap, so any goodwill I had for stardock, which admittedly isn't much, as I don't typically extend good will to companies, is gone.

Normally I would be supportive of ignoring copyright if you can get away with it, and it has been a quarter of a century, but at the same time these were 2 smart individuals that retained ownership of the game they wrote at time when the little guy was starting to be gobbled up. I'm apt to be sympathetic to the little guy, and in this case, if that timeline and details are correct, in a just world they would prevail.

In a time when Disney can keep Mickey going for over almost a century because of who they are, it's hard to fault 2 guys for holding out after just 26 years or whatever. Particularly when it's the work of their own two hands, rather than one of many commodities bought in bulk in the hopes that it would be worth something one day (this is not a reference to Stardock, just how copyright often seems to work).

To make matters worse, that the various assets of SC and SCII can be sliced and diced into separate copyrights to be sold off piecemeal is just complete bullshit, whoever is responsible. I don't see a lot of books or paintings being composed of 400 different and separately copyrighted works. Music is probably closer, but even then it's not so many. Maybe a few samples, at most.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by NickAragua » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:26 pm

Based on what I've seen, it's pretty clear that SC:Origins uses entirely new art and code, writing, etc. The main gray area seems to be the "behind the scenes" interactions and the use of the term "Star Control" (and, also, who gets paid). Regardless of who's in the right re: copyright, a bunch of people put a lot of work into this game. So they should probably be paid, even if the bossman didn't own the creative rights. As to the rest: I'm probably not the best impartial judge of the situation. At the end of the day, I just want to play my damn Star Control game without having to jump through fifty hoops.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:35 pm

NickAragua wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:26 pm
Based on what I've seen, it's pretty clear that SC:Origins uses entirely new art and code, writing, etc. The main gray area seems to be the "behind the scenes" interactions and the use of the term "Star Control" (and, also, who gets paid). Regardless of who's in the right re: copyright, a bunch of people put a lot of work into this game. So they should probably be paid, even if the bossman didn't own the creative rights. As to the rest: I'm probably not the best impartial judge of the situation. At the end of the day, I just want to play my damn Star Control game without having to jump through fifty hoops.
They were paid. I know I don't wait months or years to get paid for the work I do, and neither did they. If they lose their jobs today, they have only their employer to blame. I don't let other companies get away with illegal shit just to keep their employees employed either.

And read the thread Max linked to, it's pretty clear there's more to it than you imply, as pretty much ALL content besides the name is owned by Fred and Paul (god I hope that's their names, I'm too lazy to actually check). I mean nearly everything. All the races, their appearances, their ships , the lore, the map, the subtitle. I'm unsure about the music. Pretty much the only license that didn't revert to them was the name, and even then it's only half of the name of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters. Possibly as important, anything that F&P don't own is owned by someone else, not Stardock. They paid around $400k for the name and little else. There is an "else" but what that "else" contains is not clear to me.

My initial comments still stand, and I do hope something can be worked out and I do want to play the game at some point, and I don't want to hear the spins from both parties, but if the timeline details are factual, then Stardock is going to be paying royalties as long as the game is for sale, assuming P & F refuse royalties and shut it down altogether out of spite. That's my prediction anyway.

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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by Drazzil » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:41 pm

Mark me down for never buying any games from either parties ever. Mission accomplished!
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Re: [Stardock] Star Control

Post by NickAragua » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:05 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:35 pm
NickAragua wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:26 pm
Based on what I've seen, it's pretty clear that SC:Origins uses entirely new art and code, writing, etc. The main gray area seems to be the "behind the scenes" interactions and the use of the term "Star Control" (and, also, who gets paid). Regardless of who's in the right re: copyright, a bunch of people put a lot of work into this game. So they should probably be paid, even if the bossman didn't own the creative rights. As to the rest: I'm probably not the best impartial judge of the situation. At the end of the day, I just want to play my damn Star Control game without having to jump through fifty hoops.
They were paid. I know I don't wait months or years to get paid for the work I do, and neither did they. If they lose their jobs today, they have only their employer to blame. I don't let other companies get away with illegal shit just to keep their employees employed either.

And read the thread Max linked to, it's pretty clear there's more to it than you imply, as pretty much ALL content besides the name is owned by Fred and Paul (god I hope that's their names, I'm too lazy to actually check). I mean nearly everything. All the races, their appearances, their ships , the lore, the map, the subtitle. I'm unsure about the music. Pretty much the only license that didn't revert to them was the name, and even then it's only half of the name of Star Control II: The Ur-Quan Masters. Possibly as important, anything that F&P don't own is owned by someone else, not Stardock. They paid around $400k for the name and little else. There is an "else" but what that "else" contains is not clear to me.

My initial comments still stand, and I do hope something can be worked out and I do want to play the game at some point, and I don't want to hear the spins from both parties, but if the timeline details are factual, then Stardock is going to be paying royalties as long as the game is for sale, assuming P & F refuse royalties and shut it down altogether out of spite. That's my prediction anyway.
Having played through some part of the game, yeah, there's some IP reuse. Not very much, but it's there. Not of the original art assets or anything, but species names and lore patterns.

Stardock should have probably just called it "Space Explorer: An homage to Star Control" and called it a day.

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