[Kickstarter] Darkest Dungeon

Baroquen · Post by **Baroquen** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:04 pm

Yeah, I'm really looking forward into trying this again too. I hope it's not too difficult now, as that was the trend in patch notes when I took my break. I mean, I know it's tough; I just hope it's still enjoyable for me.

Butterknife · Post by **Butterknife** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:27 pm

Sepiche wrote:Official release is tomorrow! Can't wait!

Me too! I put in 25 hours since I posted in this thread last time, then I had to drag myself away from it so I wouldn't burn myself out on it. I've been really looking forward to this coming out officially so that I can jump in with both feet. I intend on starting a new save file, even though I will have to start over on building my town.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:54 pm

I'm planning to get back into this tomorrow, so excited. I stopped playing in early access, so it would be fresh. I will be starting a whole new campaign. Another rogue like game close to release is Into the Stars, so I'll be dipping my feet into that game too

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:24 pm

Me, too. I fell in love with the look and feel of this game right away, and I decided to wait for the full release. I've been checking Steam all day in the hope of an early appearance.

ydejin · Post by **ydejin** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:37 pm

Holman wrote:Me, too. I fell in love with the look and feel of this game right away, and I decided to wait for the full release. I've been checking Steam all day in the hope of an early appearance.

+1

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:53 pm

My understanding is the only thing the patch tomorrow brings aside from some re-balancing is the final dungeon. With that in mind, and since saves are supposed to be compatible, I fired up a game over the weekend.

What an awesome game.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:29 am

Is the persistent corpse mechanic still in there? I never saw it in action, but absolutely hated the concept. I know I can turn it off, but that somehow feels wrong.

Stuie · Post by **Stuie** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:30 am

TiLT wrote:Is the persistent corpse mechanic still in there? I never saw it in action, but absolutely hated the concept. I know I can turn it off, but that somehow feels wrong.

Yes it is still there... with the option to turn it off. I've played both ways, and combat seems much more sensible with corpses off. I'm sure there are purists that will be outraged by the thought.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:07 am

One thing to keep in mind about the official release is that the game still isn't "finished", ie. it's not yet at the level we were promised in the Kickstarter campaign. They've pushed certain features, like town events and a couple of character classes, back to get the release out the door. I'm not sure if I'm going to wait until they're out, but I might.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:20 am

So, basically, it's still Early Release but they've opted to stop calling it that. It always rubs me the wrong way when unfinished games are "released".

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:45 am

Think of it as free DLC. Most games remain in a state of flux after being released. That's the way the industry works (for now), so no need to get your panties in a bunch.

Besides, the remaining class and town events are supposed to come in February, and you'll be too busy with XCOM 2 to play anything else, anyway.

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:46 am

Stuie wrote:
TiLT wrote:Is the persistent corpse mechanic still in there? I never saw it in action, but absolutely hated the concept. I know I can turn it off, but that somehow feels wrong.
Yes it is still there... with the option to turn it off. I've played both ways, and combat seems much more sensible with corpses off. I'm sure there are purists that will be outraged by the thought.

I have corpses on and heart attacks off. I like the corpse mechanic. It makes skill use and positioning more important. There are certain skills on certain classes that can wipe corpses out in one turn as a "side" benefit to the skill. These were skills almost completely useless prior to this mechanic. It also makes use of previously underused skills that effect the enemy positioning (ex: ones that pull the target to the front of the line). I hated it at first but have really grown to appreciate the extra layer of strategy and character building it brings.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:55 am

The thing is that Darkest Dungeon is built on being more of a gritty, gothic, and "realistic" (the better word is "believable") approach to fantasy, but the corpse mechanic makes no sense. If we were talking about masses of enemies piling up after a protracted battle, then fine. But when we're talking about being unable to get past a single, dead enemy to slash at the guy behind it, then anything resembling immersion falls apart in seconds. It's a game mechanic blatantly pushing its way into the narrative, where it doesn't fit in the slightest.

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:07 am

TiLT wrote:The thing is that Darkest Dungeon is built on being more of a gritty, gothic, and "realistic" (the better word is "believable") approach to fantasy, but the corpse mechanic makes no sense. If we were talking about masses of enemies piling up after a protracted battle, then fine. But when we're talking about being unable to get past a single, dead enemy to slash at the guy behind it, then anything resembling immersion falls apart in seconds. It's a game mechanic blatantly pushing its way into the narrative, where it doesn't fit in the slightest.

I don't equate it's "gritty, gothic" art direction with gameplay realism at all so it doesn't really bother me. None of it is realistic/believable; you get scared digging away a dirt pile?, reading a book causes a phobia?, Magic and insta healing?, banging whores wipes away your insanity rating? Ok maybe the last one is realistic. After getting used to the corpse mechanic I find the game rather boring without it as it eliminates the need for skills and makes everything boil down to a few optimal builds and strategies. It is kind of an odd "fix" but I think it works well. Also, technically not all monsters create an unpassable corpse. The worms/etc. do not, only humanoid creatures. So there's your realism

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:25 am

Is the difficulty on this still somewhere between "mind numbing" and "soul crushing"? I love the idea of the game, but hearing about how ridiculously difficult it is has kept me away.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:32 am

It isn't called the Slightly Gloomy Dungeon.

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:21 pm

Skinypupy wrote:Is the difficulty on this still somewhere between "mind numbing" and "soul crushing"? I love the idea of the game, but hearing about how ridiculously difficult it is has kept me away.

It has fluctuated since I picked I up a year ago certainly. I think it's about right for a rogue like experience (corpses on no hear attacks) if not even a bit easier than most In that genre. However, old lady dice roll will come up and bite you for no good reason as you can certainly have a run of bad luck. Just don't get too attached to anybody and have a B team, maybe a C and D team as well

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:29 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:It isn't called the Slightly Gloomy Dungeon.

That would be a better system for difficulty settings than "Easy" and "Hard."
The progression could be:

A Bright and Cheery Dungeon
A Slightly Gloomy Dungeon
A Moderately Dank Dungeon
A Dark and Foreboding Dungeon
The Soul-Crushing Heart of Darkness Dungeon

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:42 pm

It is not particularly dark. You are likely to be nibbled by a shrew.

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:51 pm

morlac wrote:
Skinypupy wrote:Is the difficulty on this still somewhere between "mind numbing" and "soul crushing"? I love the idea of the game, but hearing about how ridiculously difficult it is has kept me away.

It has fluctuated since I picked I up a year ago certainly. I think it's about right for a rogue like experience (corpses on no hear attacks) if not even a bit easier than most In that genre. However, old lady dice roll will come up and bite you for no good reason as you can certainly have a run of bad luck. Just don't get too attached to anybody and have a B team, maybe a C and D team as well

Ha! So true it hurts if maybe underselling the difficulty a bit and/or under selling the bad luck...

I decided to wipe my old saves and start fresh with the launch. No biggie, I only had a level 3 party. I then loaded up a new game. Love that opening sequence, so repeatedly watchable. Much like the original Borderlands. Watching it puts you in the mood to play. Anyhow, you start right in the tutorial dungeon...consisting of one hall and one room. So it went solo bad guy encounter that was dispatched with a minor scratch, ruffling through a tent, to the room were my two man party got wiped. The big bad guy used his pull ability to move my highwayman to the front of the line. No biggie I was going to make him bleed and then try and stun lock him with the Crusader till he's dead, the usual plan. Bleeding worked, rest of plan went to crap. He took a 'point blank shot' to the face that put him on deaths door but it also moved him back to the end of the line so he could use ranged while dying. Yea for him cause that's what he did right after we finally killed the big guy four rounds later who had resisted two stun attempts and lots of bleedings. So now I had a big corpse and two spaces in between my Crusader and the last bad guy and I'm bleeding. Battle of attrition that I lost three rounds later thanks thanks to two misses. Had I moved my Highwayman right back to second in line on his first turn instead of going for the bleed attack they both most likely would have survived. I underestimated the risk of positioning my ranged, took a gamble and lost. Frustrating bad luck but less risky tactics probably win the day. Went down swinging and ready for round two.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:36 pm

Anyone able to claim the backer's only trinket Crest of the 1100? I followed the backers email and it doesn't seem to wor
I was missing an update. Got it and the code worked

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:28 am

tru1cy wrote:Anyone able to claim the backer's only trinket Crest of the 1100? I followed the backers email and it doesn't seem to wor
I was missing an update. Got it and the code worked

Yeah, I apparently mistyped it the first time, but got it on the second try.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:10 am

It feels about the same as it did when I first got into it, just with 'more' - which is fine. The only big thing I'm running into is the costs of running the adventurer's. Funding seems to be in steady decline and I can't heal adventurers as fast as I'd like to. Maybe I need to adjust strategy and just fire people instead, while bringing in new ones? Maybe just keep some fodder for basic missions and only spend money on improving the A & B teams?

Overall, still one of the best atmospheric games I've played.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:12 am

Turning off corpses.. the mechanic is just stupid, imo

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:19 am

tru1cy wrote:Turning off corpses.. the mechanic is just stupid, imo

The game plays much better with them on though. Makes for more strategy than just using melee to kill your way down the line. To be fair they bugged me at first too, but after a bit I barely even noticed them anymore.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:16 pm

Just getting back to this now. What a great atmosphere! I've just encountered The Collector for the first time. I don't know if this was part of the game earlier or not, but it was new to me. The attack animation was wonderfully chilling.

My one issue with the game is this: if your A team gets wiped out, is it possible to start fresh with newbies (jn the same campaign) or even your B team and still survive? I seem to remember that the game doesn't really let you run starter-appropriate dungeons after you've advanced beyond them once.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 pm

Well in earlier versions what dungeon you were allowed to pick was based on the levels of the characters in your party. So if you had a high level party you couldn't do the earlier dungeons, but if you had a party of rookies, you couldn't pick some of the tougher dungeons.

No idea if that's how things work today or not.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:25 am

Don't know if anyone's found one yet or not, but I bumped into a Secret Room due to a 'Critical Success' in scouting. Even with full torchlight, I found $7,500 worth of gems in one (locked) box. Biggest. Haul. Ever. I finished that dungeon with around $15,000 in loot and I'm feeling much better, financially.

I'm really digging some of the new characters and classes and don't have any gripes about how it plays in terms of combat. Corpses don't bother me since a lot of characters have 'rearrange' abilities that also destroy corpses at the same time - so when you pull that annoying caster to the front, the two dead bodies also vanish.

The one negative trait I hate more than anything else, though, is Kleptomaniac. I have three otherwise good characters with this burden, and it's massively annoying when one of them up and steals $1,200 in treasure. I'm repairing them, slow and steady. Speaking of traits, I don't like that it's 5x more expensive to remove a "Positive" trait than a bad one. If you don't, your character just ends up overwriting the last trait over and over - which, if it's a good one, you don't want to have happen.

I especially like that Trinkets have been completely overhauled and are worth using now. I hated that everything was almost equally bad to good and thus worthless - but now there's been a good reason to use everything I've found, and some have no drawback at all.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:36 am

Lost my best healer last night to a freaking heart attack. My next best healer won't travel with my best group cause she doesn't like the tank....

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:03 pm

tru1cy wrote:Lost my best healer last night to a freaking heart attack. My next best healer won't travel with my best group cause she doesn't like the tank....

If you're referring to the tank I think you mean (the shapeshifter?) - I don't blame her. My people lose gobs of sanity just running a dungeon with that guy, let alone from the things they fight. I stopped bringing him along because it was a net loss on sanity every battle and by the end I was paying out for a lot of rounds at the pub to get people to calm down.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:09 pm

Paingod wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Lost my best healer last night to a freaking heart attack. My next best healer won't travel with my best group cause she doesn't like the tank....
If you're referring to the tank I think you mean (the shapeshifter?) - I don't blame her. My people lose gobs of sanity just running a dungeon with that guy, let alone from the things they fight. I stopped bringing him along because it was a net loss on sanity every battle and by the end I was paying out for a lot of rounds at the pub to get people to calm down.

I've only played with him a little bit, but it doesn't quite seem like the abomination's power is in line with the sanity cost to the other heroes. I mean he's strong, but, as you mention, the extra cost of running him in a group is substantial, and I don't think he's that much stronger than any other well kitted out hero.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:29 pm

Is there any way to generate gold more efficiently? Most missions I barely have enough to send out another mission after fixing everyone sanity. Overall I like the game but the amount of grind I’m seeing right now is a bit ridiculous.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:42 pm

Lordnine wrote:Is there any way to generate gold more efficiently? Most missions I barely have enough to send out another mission after fixing everyone sanity. Overall I like the game but the amount of grind I’m seeing right now is a bit ridiculous.

A few tips for saving money:
1. Sell unneeded trinkets... even common ones go for 750gp and that adds up fast.
2. Don't reflexively send every hero to get de-stressed... if you're low on money it can even be worth it to just dump characters with poor traits who've built up stress and replace them with cheap, free heroes from the coach.
3. Don't overstock provisions. Some dungeons reward you for taking a few extra specific items, but in general you can get by fine with only food and torches. It's definitely good to take those special items if you can afford them, as each time you successfully use an item on a curio you're making a profit, but strictly speaking you can do fine without them.

It's also partly luck based... just depends on what drops you get within dungeons, but with my new game I can't say I've had much in the way of money problems at all.

Also, this is my bible when I play... I have it mostly memorized now, but any time you come across a curio you haven't seen, check that guide and see what item will give the best result:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =456127021

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:59 pm

I get that I'm the main lord and the objective is to get back my castle, but I feel kind of shitty just disposing of my adventurers like trash. It's a game play tactic for sure, but I feel like there should be a trade-off in doing so. Like, dismissing an adventurer who is loaded up on stress results in the chance of negative effects on the remaining stable of people. IDK, maybe that's already in the game?? Also, if I just leave someone in town but don't give them therapy will they lose stress?

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:56 pm

Citizen wrote:I get that I'm the main lord and the objective is to get back my castle, but I feel kind of shitty just disposing of my adventurers like trash. It's a game play tactic for sure, but I feel like there should be a trade-off in doing so. Like, dismissing an adventurer who is loaded up on stress results in the chance of negative effects on the remaining stable of people. IDK, maybe that's already in the game?? Also, if I just leave someone in town but don't give them therapy will they lose stress?

Only way to relieve stress is by doing the Tavern or Abbey. Just leaving in town does nothing and basically uses up a roster spot. Don't get overly attached to low level guys....

Baroquen · Post by **Baroquen** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:06 am

So the Party Combo names are fun. I noticed it when I accidentally made "The Hellhounds". Though I laughed more when I created "Stunrise Stunset"... (they're just cosmetic, if like me, you didn't know).

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:50 am

Citizen wrote:I get that I'm the main lord and the objective is to get back my castle, but I feel kind of shitty just disposing of my adventurers like trash. It's a game play tactic for sure, but I feel like there should be a trade-off in doing so. Like, dismissing an adventurer who is loaded up on stress results in the chance of negative effects on the remaining stable of people. IDK, maybe that's already in the game?? Also, if I just leave someone in town but don't give them therapy will they lose stress?

Dismissing adventurers means sending them away from the accursed estate, saving their lives and sanity. You're doing them a favor.

It's the ones you send INTO the dungeon you should feel bad about.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:08 pm

I'm enjoying this quite a bit. I'd bought it some time ago on sale but had decided to wait until release to play it so it's all new to me.

I've made 6 trips in so far and to date have not lost any quests or parties. I have dismissed quite a few adventurers that failed their resolve checks and developed nasty quirks. I've also had a few characters die in the dungeon. I lost a Hellion, a Leper and a really good Highwayman that way. I've been unlucky in getting tanks on the stagecoach so I've been making do with the starting Crusader and the Abomination mainly. The Abomination has crazy survivability but he's not worth it IMO because of all the stress he generates. The Crusader is great and he's the only one I have at level 2.

So far I have about $25K saved up and 18 adventurers in my stable. I haven't really bought any building upgrades yet other than the Stagecoach ones and a few Tavern upgrades. I really need to get a few more tanks on the next coach. I'm being offered a quest to kill the Necromancer's Apprentice now but I'm afraid to do it until I can get a few more level 2 characters.

The hardest thing for me about the game has been learning the god-awful user interface. I think I have it all figured out now but at first it was VERY unintuitive. Especially trinket management and provisioning. I kept looking for a building to buy provisions in but there isn't one. You have to click 'Embark" to get to that menu which is a head scratcher.

The best things are the fantastic art and atmosphere. The commentator's voice of the ancestor in-game is pure gold.

Butterknife · Post by **Butterknife** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:58 pm

I thought I'd offer some tips. I've had one death so far and I've killed 4 bosses on the default difficulty, so I know what I'm talking about! At least I like to think so.

Heroes are an unlimited resource. In fact they are the only free unlimited resource in the game. If they have bad traits, fire them mercilessly. All of your heroes will end up with bad traits sooner or later, so you want to have the "best" bad traits on a hero, meaning ones that don't effect them very much. Don't put money into anybody too early in the game (most players recommend not until they are at least level 3). Personally I start buying armor, weapons, and better traits for my heroes as soon as they are level 2 if they are headed off to fight a boss, otherwise wait until level 3. I almost never buy level 0 or 1 characters anything, just dispose of them (fire them) if they get too sick, too stressed, etc. Many early players make the mistake of trying to "fix" broken heroes when they just aren't worth the cost.

Learn the curio interactions. Either take notes when you figure out the right interaction item, or just look at the wiki page right here. Either way this makes the difference between coming out of a dungeon stressed out with tons of new negative stats and completely out of health, or coming out with your packs loaded down with loot and buffed up. Make some effort to learn what works where.

Learn what types of monsters are in each dungeon. Specifically, don't take heroes that do bleed damage into dungeons where enemies are immune to bleed, and don't take heroes that do blight damage where enemies are resistant to blight. Do take heroes who do extra damage to beasts into certain dungeons. That sort of thing. Take notes or look at the wiki page right here.

Heroes de-stress in town without doing anything. This is slow, but it does happen. You don't have to spend money on every hero to cure stress, some you can just let hang around the town. Spend more money to cure more stress, if you need someone back in the fight right away.

Party composition is everything. For your first parties, think "healer, DPS, rogue, tank" in that order from back to front, possibly swapping around the back two. That will be a balanced party that can handle most things. Later on you can try weird stuff like a party centered around "marking" enemies to do extra damage, but that is a more advanced group. For those of you who don't like the abomination, try pairing him with a jester (has a de-stress party heal) or just use him without shapeshifting for the low levels. He still makes a great stunner from the second row, and a pretty good backup tank in the front (just have him heal himself over and over, but I would recommend keeping him in the #2 spot). If you make a bad party, they will come back dead. The names that sometimes appear when you make a party do not mean you have created a good party, just that the devs thought it would be a funny theme.

Don't take too many supplies. For a short fight dungeon, 8 food, 8 torches (light run, 4 for dark), take 2 of everything else. For a short exploration dungeon I take 12 food and 10 torches. Medium fight dungeon is 12 food, 10 torches and 3 of everything else, medium exploration dungeon is 16 food 12 torches and so on. Camping restores your torch to full. Don't take useless supplies into a dungeon (no bandages needed in the Ruins, for example). Consider taking an extra shovel any time you are exploring. Taking too many supplies wastes gold, so before you finish a dungeon look at all the supplies in your pack and if you didn't use 4 antivenoms, bring 4 fewer next time. Keep in mind that dark runs give you tons more loot, and try a couple of them. They aren't quite as awesome as they used to be, but they still have their place. Just keep the light level low, don't let it go all the way out.

Have a goal for the run. Do you want more money? Consider a dark run. Do you want more heirlooms? Try to finish the quest and explore as much as possible, and of course enter the dungeon that gives you the heirloom you are after. Do you want to level up your heroes? Consider spending some money to level their armor, weapons, and skills and equip them so that they will be tougher and not die. Keep in mind that not all of your heroes are worth saving.

Run away! Don't be afraid to follow the wise teachings of the Brave Sir Robin and turn tail when you need to. Discretion is the better part of valor, fellow cowards!

I'm on week 22 and I'm off to try to fight the Brigand 8-Pounder. I have no idea what this boss is capable of, so wish me luck!

Baroquen · Post by **Baroquen** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:15 pm

Yeah, I know the heroes are free, but I really struggle to toss them aside. I'm so used to the games where cultivate and nurture your troops, that I want to overcome their problems rather than getting rid of them. But I'm getting better at it. Using the riff-raff/fodder to elevate the a-team. And b-team. And c-team...

So for bosses... I know that when the adventurers get too high, they won't go in the lower level dungeons. What's the breakdown of levels? In my (brief) search, I couldn't find the details of when to tackle the bosses, before leveling them higher, etc.