[Kickstarter] Darkest Dungeon

[Butterknife]

Yeah, I know the heroes are free, but I really struggle to toss them aside. I'm so used to the games where cultivate and nurture your troops, that I want to overcome their problems rather than getting rid of them. But I'm getting better at it. Using the riff-raff/fodder to elevate the a-team. And b-team. And c-team...

So for bosses... I know that when the adventurers get too high, they won't go in the lower level dungeons. What's the breakdown of levels? In my (brief) search, I couldn't find the details of when to tackle the bosses, before leveling them higher, etc.

Toss them like the fodder they are! Mwuahaha!

The first set of bosses you fight can't be attacked by level 3 characters. You will have to use level 2 characters to beat them. I've never actually gotten past the first set of bosses, but I believe that the second set you fight with level 4 characters, and the last set with level 6. So get your characters to level 2, max them out with weapons, armor, and abilities -- then choose characters that would be able to defeat that particular boss based on the mechanics of the fight. If you are like me, the first time you fight a boss you get your butt kicked, then you come back with a party the second time tailor-made to kick back.

And I just defeated the Brigand 8-Pounder! Turns out my "boss scouting" party was tough enough to take it without having to come back for a second go at it.

[ColdSteel]

So, after playing it for a few days, I got very curious about how well this game has done sales-wise. SteamSpy reports they've sold 637,552 copies on Steam, which to me is absolutely amazing for a turn-based roguelike such as this. No wonder the devs seem so enthused about continuing to create content. I suspect there will be plenty of DLC and perhaps even a sequel at some point. The game was just released and they have already made an enormous profit.

[Paingod]

It's no mystery why it's done well. The atmosphere is excellent.

I think the game is, if anything, a touch easier than it was when I played the early release long ago - but that's not to say that it's easy. I've got 16 characters and all 16 of them are doing well. I haven't had to throw anyone away yet - but my first time out of the gate was a complete non-starter and I had crap for character selection to work with. I've yet to suffer a party wipe or even a loss since I restarted, but the Collector has made me come close twice.

It really helps if your team has a synergy going. The one that works best for me involves a festival of stun. Every character has a stun move, and some have stun bonus attacks (like the Bounty Hunter).

My favorite teams so far are...

Chaos

• Jester - Move to the front and debuff, move to the back and critical hit, move up a spot and stab, make the middle two foes bleed.
• Hound Master - Stun, Bleed all, Attack any, Heal Self
• Grave Robber - Fade back and stun, Stab forward, Blight, and Buff/Cure self
• Vestal - Stun, Hurt/Heal Self, Heal team, Heal one

This one has a lot of movement inside the party and it matters little if they're surprised, which is nice for running in the dark. The Jester's Finale has good damage buffs and critical chances, and the Grave Robber's stun and retreat is nice as a lead up to her lunge attack. The Hound Master works well from anywhere but the last position (which he never gets to) and is versatile in his range of attacks. The Vestal mostly keeps everyone healed.

Steadfast

• Man-at-Arms - Hit, Stun/Move Forward/Knockback, Guard Other/Protect Self, Riposte/Mark Self
• Hellion - Double-Stun, Move Forward/Triple strike, single strike, bleed
• Occultist - back row double-hit, pull forward, large heal/bleed, Marking curse
• Arbalest - Snipe against Marked, Bandage/Buff healing received, hit front two/knockback, hit three in back/debuff

The Man-at-Arms is a great leader and his Guard/Riposte combo is a good way to keep other people safe. The Hellion and Man-At-Arms swap positions easily, and she has good frontline AoE attacks. The Occultist has a massive (random) heal to help out while having attacks to fill gaps and make the Arbalest hit harder. The Arbalest is a utilitarian class with good back-row damage and a really nice heal & buff that stacks and can let a character receive more healing than normal.

[LordMortis]

Is there another game with a similar mechanic or did this have a free trial very early. I swear I played this exact game except I was only playing with one set of heroes in one dungeon.

I'm tempted to spend my $20 this weekend on this. Already added to my wishlist either way.

[Holman]

Is there another game with a similar mechanic or did this have a free trial very early. I swear I played this exact game except I was only playing with one set of heroes in one dungeon.

I'm tempted to spend my $20 this weekend on this. Already added to my wishlist either way.

It came out in Early Access almost exactly a year ago, and gameplay videos were circulating for several months before that. Are you thinking of something older?

[LordMortis]

It came out in Early Access almost exactly a year ago, and gameplay videos were circulating for several months before that. Are you thinking of something older?

The time frame may be right right but I actually played something just like this without buying anything but it was very basic. The three stacked heroes went through one dungeon and it was not random, nor were the heroes.

But it's all good. I'm sure I'll get this. The question is will I buy it this weekend or wait for a sale because I have no business paying $20 a game at a time when I won't make time to play it.

[Paingod]

The question is will I buy it this weekend or wait for a sale because I have no business paying $20 a game at a time when I won't make time to play it.

As soon as you hear the narrative and whiff the atmosphere, you'll be hard pressed to leave.

[Holman]

The question is will I buy it this weekend or wait for a sale because I have no business paying $20 a game at a time when I won't make time to play it.

As soon as you hear the narrative and whiff the atmosphere, you'll be hard pressed to leave.

There might be some slight spoilers in that list of clips. I definitely suggest the the amazing opening video.

[tgb]

For those who care about such things TotalBiscuit really likes it. A lot.

[ColdSteel]

I definitely suggest the the amazing opening video.

That video is a slightly changed version of their second trailer from years ago, "The House of Ruin". One of my favorite trailers of all time. I watched that thing so many times I had the dialog memorized. "Exhausting what remained of our family fortune on swarthy workmen and sturdy shovels. At last, in the salt soaked cracks beneath the lowest foundations, we unearthed that damnable portal to antediluvian evil." Just incredible writing for something like this, I thought. Very Lovecraftish.

[tgb]

The one thing about the game that I really dislike is the way inventory items disappear if you try to use them on a curio and they don't work. This game throws enough at you, there was no need for something else.

[morlac]

The one thing about the game that I really dislike is the way inventory items disappear if you try to use them on a curio and they don't work. This game throws enough at you, there was no need for something else.

The correct item to use does not change so hopefully once you key in on the right one you shouldn't waste anymore. Also, most of them make common sense if pay attention to the description. Example : use holy water on an urn filled with the departed ashes.


Had a great if painful run last night. My Houndmaster for some reason took a 50% stress hit as soon as he walked into the dungeon (still not sure what happened). Things quickly went down hill once he over stressed and became "Paranoid" during the second encounter. Usually when one character goes insane it is doable. However, I discovered that Paranoid has an added "bonus" effect of increasing everyone else's stress levels when said paranoid character flakes out and announces "I told you my friends were no good" or some such insane quip when a bad guy hit him. This happened almost every turn until the entire party was completely freaked out. The only one who had a positive effect was my Hellion who proceeded to completely kick ass and taunted the enemies for the next three rooms I had to clear. Somehow everyone got out alive albeit minus their sanity and two of them on death's door. I had to dismiss everyone but the Hellion and It was awesome. Favorite line I heard during the run was when my paranoid Houndmaster refused to be healed and told the Vestal "careful he bites". That and when my Highwman announced, "I think I just pulled my leg" while visiting the brothel. He of course "fell in love" after that encounter and will no longer destress anywhere else but with his "mistress of mercy". Just love this game even if it kicks my ass and makes me rage quit every other session.

[dbemont]

The one thing about the game that I really dislike is the way inventory items disappear if you try to use them on a curio and they don't work. This game throws enough at you, there was no need for something else.

I don't so much mind that they disappear if used incorrectly. But this curio portion of the game feels like the one wrong note in what is otherwise a great game. Really, it's just a matter of alt-tabbing to a source that lists the correct item for each curio... which really doesn't add to the fun factor of a game.

[ColdSteel]

For those who care about such things TotalBiscuit really likes it. A lot.

I was shocked to hear recently that he has terminal cancer. It started out as colon cancer. They removed it but it spread to his liver and is now inoperable. He only has about 3 years left (average for that cancer location). Very sad. The poor guy's only 31 and has a wife and young son.

[tgb]

For those who care about such things TotalBiscuit really likes it. A lot.

I was shocked to hear recently that he has terminal cancer. It started out as colon cancer. They removed it but it spread to his liver and is now inoperable. He only has about 3 years left (average for that cancer location). Very sad. The poor guy's only 31 and has a wife and young son.

I never read anything more about the cancer after his surgery so assumed that was the end of it. Very sad news. I know some people don't care for his style, but when it comes to gameplay videos of something new, I always check his website first.

[GreenGoo]

For those who care about such things TotalBiscuit really likes it. A lot.

I was shocked to hear recently that he has terminal cancer. It started out as colon cancer. They removed it but it spread to his liver and is now inoperable. He only has about 3 years left (average for that cancer location). Very sad. The poor guy's only 31 and has a wife and young son.

I had recently read that as well.

[baelthazar]

That is too bad... I really like his style and find he has similar interests to me. Apparently he is still going to do some Youtube videos, but is going to quit social media. I feel sorry for him and his family.

http://kotaku.com/totalbiscuit-quits-so ... 1754991166

Speaking of controversial reviewers with cancer, apparently Tom Chick beat his? Has he weighed in on Darkest Dungeon? I would be curious to see how he viewed the design.

I like the game, but haven't put as much time into it as I want. I intend to rectify that soon!

[tgb]

Speaking of controversial reviewers with cancer, apparently Tom Chick beat his? Has he weighed in on Darkest Dungeon? I would be curious to see how he viewed the design.

I like the game, but haven't put as much time into it as I want. I intend to rectify that soon!

I don't think he's officially reviewed it, but from the thread in the forum he seems to like it. Chick goes through periods of inactivity on the boards, and if you listen to any of his recent podcast, his voice sounds oddly sped up - as if playing a 33 rpm record at 45.

As to whether any of this is cancer-related, I have no idea.

[TiLT]

That is too bad... I really like his style and find he has similar interests to me. Apparently he is still going to do some Youtube videos, but is going to quit social media. I feel sorry for him and his family.

His channel is operating as normal, except that he has to take a 3-day break or so every two weeks for chemo. Him quitting social media is unrelated to the cancer and instead comes from the psychological problems it has caused him and still does. According to him, most of his YouTuber friends (as well as himself) go to therapy because of the shit they have to deal with in online communities.

His latest CT scan revealed that the cancer in his liver has not spread, and has in fact shrunk by 75%. It's still terminal, but he firmly believes he's an outlier that will live well past the usual 2-3 year estimate for this particular brand of cancer. Most people who get it are old and frail, while TB is pretty young and capable of fighting back.

I watch pretty much all his videos, even of games that don't really interest me. He's quite unique in the games industry, and important too thanks to his relentless focus on consumer rights.

[Smoove_B]

Didn't back the Kickstarter (though I thought about it) and I only have about an hour into the game but I'm absolutely loving it. From the art style to the overall tone - it's all quite enjoyable. The narrator absolutely kills it - he's perfect. I'm still learning the basics, but I can really see this being a huge time sink. I was rather hesitant to pull the trigger as I've been burned quite a few times on $20+ indie games (particularly KS ones), but so far this feels completely worth it.

[LordMortis]

I played for about an hour and a half last night and I really enjoyed myself even if I have no feel for how to advance teams yet. I assume there is no time limit on the game.

I know I've played a demo of this before or a game exactly like it, where all of the content was a walk between one room and the next, composed of the about 3 battles and no curios or no torch modifiers but I can't find reference to this anywhere.

I'll probably play for about an hour and half again tonight. This should reliably cut back on having 'meh' time that I end up playing Marvel Puzzle Quest for a while, maybe longer.

[GreenGoo]

I'm about to dive back in after a short stint when it first hit Steam in early access. Obviously the atmosphere and tone are fantastic. I did find that the gameplay started to wear a bit thin back then and I'm hoping the latest version, with more polish and content, will do the concept and promise of the early access version justice.

[LordMortis]

also I concur that not knowing what item if any to put in a curio adds nothing to the game beyond taking the time to look shit up on a wiki. I don't care for that dynamic either.

[Paingod]

also I concur that not knowing what item if any to put in a curio adds nothing to the game beyond taking the time to look shit up on a wiki. I don't care for that dynamic either.

Agreed. Once you "discover" a solution, it should be a permanent option. The shovel is always available to remove obstacles. The only trick is that some things can use a couple different options, but I wouldn't care if they dropped that and balanced it so there was only one right choice.

The worst it does is give you a chance to toss items accidentally. I've hit a point where if I don't have the right item, I don't touch a the curios. There are a rare few that are fine without, but on the whole it's just not worth it.

I recently 'accidentally' took a mediocre team in to fight a boss. I thought it was a normal run and walked in with a mish-mash of people that needed to be leveled up. I had forgotten how the fight would play out and I had three people escape "At Death's Door" and one left with 2 health. Somehow no one died. I'm on Week 22 with no losses so far, but everyone's creeping up on Veteran and costs to restore their sanity are crippling.

[LordMortis]

Do you put people up to regain stress every week? That's part of the dynamic I don't understand. How well does stress go down just being idle in town?

[Lordnine]

Do you put people up to regain stress every week? That's part of the dynamic I don't understand. How well does stress go down just being idle in town?

Incredibly small amounts will be recovered each week but its small enough that you can’t rely on that for recovery. However, I find it best to just trash a party member who is stressed if they are below level 2. Heroes are free, stress is expensive.

[LordMortis]

Do you put people up to regain stress every week? That's part of the dynamic I don't understand. How well does stress go down just being idle in town?

Incredibly small amounts will be recovered each week but its small enough that you can’t rely on that for recovery. However, I find it best to just trash a party member who is stressed if they are below level 2. Heroes are free, stress is expensive.

I have never left a dungeon without my stress being on the verge of max (max actually being 100/200). Is that not normal? Am I doing something tragically wrong?

[Lordnine]

Nope, that is about right, at least for low level heroes. Try to think of heroes as a resource to spend instead of people to protect. It's the resources they bring in that you need to care about. Stagecoach upgrades should be your first priority, then start working on your Blacksmith and Hero Guild.

Every time you complete a quest you should get another shipment of available heroes from the stagecoach. Swap out as needed. If your heroes start hitting level 2-3, THEN start trying to protect them.

[Holman]

The one element that strikes me as wrong (from an RPG perspective) is that rewards are higher in the dark; that is, you get more gold and other items when you allow your torches to burn low. This seems like way too gamey a mechanism, and it encourages dark runs as characters get more talented.

Wouldn't it have been better and more thematic to make rewards better in the light, but give the monsters the ability to put out lights?

[ColdSteel]

I know I've played a demo of this before or a game exactly like it, where all of the content was a walk between one room and the next, composed of the about 3 battles and no curios or no torch modifiers but I can't find reference to this anywhere.

Was the name of that game "Adventurer Manager" by any chance? Your description sounds like it.

[LordMortis]

I know I've played a demo of this before or a game exactly like it, where all of the content was a walk between one room and the next, composed of the about 3 battles and no curios or no torch modifiers but I can't find reference to this anywhere.

Was the name of that game "Adventurer Manager" by any chance? Your description sounds like it.

I just looked and nope. It looked just like this game does.

And I am having a blast. I suck but I'm having a blast. This game is just right for me.

Can you save and quit in a dungeon?

[Smoove_B]

Hey, who's this Abomination chap? Oh, he dishes out some serious attacks...but look everyone else in the party is slowly going crazy because seeing him change into a monster is stressing them. Hilarious.

[GreenGoo]

I know I've played a demo of this before or a game exactly like it, where all of the content was a walk between one room and the next, composed of the about 3 battles and no curios or no torch modifiers but I can't find reference to this anywhere.

Was the name of that game "Adventurer Manager" by any chance? Your description sounds like it.

I just looked and nope. It looked just like this game does.

I've never seen a game like this (that looks like this) before. I'm very curious what game you are referring to.

[Holman]

And I am having a blast. I suck but I'm having a blast. This game is just right for me.

Can you save and quit in a dungeon?

Yep. It saves with everything that happens. (In fact you can't not save.)

You can quit in the middle of a battle and pick up there later.

[Paingod]

I take back what I said about just rolling over the game.

I took my first party of level 3 heroes into a level 3 dungeon and summarily got my ass handed to me. No deaths, but they all crawled out with low health and high sanity damage. I didn't even complete the dungeon, but I did recoup the cost of going in and healing everyone. I had what I thought was a good party for it. Arbalest (Heal/Snipe/Mark/Debuff), Vestal (Heal/Stun spec), Hound Master (Stun/Bleed/Mark), Leper (Damage/Protect).

The biggest problem I had was that I couldn't heal faster than I was being hurt, and I couldn't hurt fast enough to stop piles of sanity damage. Each fight was a backwards step towards the exit, not a progressive march inward - statistically speaking. I made it far enough to recover thousands in treasure, so the whole thing was a wash.

Week 22 with no deaths, but I still think that's just luck.

[morlac]

The one element that strikes me as wrong (from an RPG perspective) is that rewards are higher in the dark; that is, you get more gold and other items when you allow your torches to burn low. This seems like way too gamey a mechanism, and it encourages dark runs as characters get more talented.

Wouldn't it have been better and more thematic to make rewards better in the light, but give the monsters the ability to put out lights?

From your comment I can tell you have not attempted too many dark runs


You have to build a party specifically geared and skilled for dark runs. That's the first challenge and not that easy as you can't control their traits. Then you have to survive dark runs. Not just survive but come back without a new set of ailments ruining your groomed dark run characters. It's a very well balanced risk vs. reward. Also, IIRC there are monsters that can put out your torches.

[tgb]

Based on what I'm reading here, I've obviously been doing it wrong (only 5 weeks into my first real game). If you're dumping every low level character that emerges stressed or diseased rather than investing in them to be cured, how do you keep anyone around long enough to mature?

[LordMortis]

Even at the beginning there are torch dimmers.

I'm not even in the realm of dark runs.

At what point do you start putting stuff on your characters? Can you take stuff back or rearrange it?

...

I also am still trying to learn how to keep or discard characters and how to save money and have yet to see why saving money is important. But then I haven't done anything other than short apprentice missions.

[Baroquen]

I keep a full roster (upgraded to 18 so far) and dump the most damaged/quirky/stressed characters for the new ones off the wagon. I also keep 2 or 3 of characters of my favorite classes, and rotate them until one emerges stronger, or one comes out broken beyond cost-effective repair. It's all a kind of survival of the fittest thing, I think.

I'm starting to get an advanced group of level 2 characters who have survived relatively well. I'm going to tackle a boss or two soon, after I upgrade their skills, and give them items and upgrade their weapons/armor.

Ran into the Collector for the first time. Wasn't that tough, but those mini-bosses have different difficulty levels too, right?

[morlac]

Based on what I'm reading here, I've obviously been doing it wrong (only 5 weeks into my first real game). If you're dumping every low level character that emerges stressed or diseased rather than investing in them to be cured, how do you keep anyone around long enough to mature?

Luck

I'll invest in fixing a low level character only if the synergy of his good/bad traits and skills makes sense to. Every now and then you get this perfect mix.