[Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

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baelthazar
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[Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by baelthazar »

This is an interesting one:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/12 ... ginal-x-co

A KS-backed reboot of a classic TBS game of wizard warfare. I'm just a tad bit too young to remember the ZX Spectrum (although the font of all knowledge says you could buy them all the way to 1992), but I certainly remember this genre of game (like Archon). The original version, Chaos, was released in 1985 by Games Workshop, which is an interesting piece of gaming history.

At any rate, Julian Gollop is one of the classic gaming gurus and is responsible for co-creating X-Com. Chaos Reborn looks like an excellent project that is sure to interest some people here.

RPS did a write-up, if you want more info:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/03 ... n-preview/
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

I never played the original but it does look very interesting. Thanks for posting about it.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by baelthazar »

ColdSteel wrote:I never played the original but it does look very interesting. Thanks for posting about it.
If you are interested in seeing what the original was like, there was a 2007 remake by fans called Chaos Groove that is free to DL.

http://chaosgroove.wordpress.com/
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

3 days to go and it doesn't look like this one is going to make it. It's a shame and I'm surprised, really. You'd think the creator of the original X-Com developing a new TBS would have folks all excited. The game itself looks really interesting. They even put up a playable demo version of the game for people to try out. The project has gotten plenty of attention from the various sites, too. I guess I just don't get the lack of interest.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Holman »

That KS video just doesn't sell it. "Here's the sequel you've been waiting for!" won't work when almost none of your audience has heard of the original. The game shown looks cramped, and the graphics look primitive. Of course it's placeholder art, but Kickstarter support depends on first impressions.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Lordnine »

For me it comes down to, while he may be a classic developer, what has he done recently? Within the last 15 years he has only been involved with one game that I played and enjoyed (Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars). On top of that, his KS video doesn’t inspire confidence that he knows how to make a “modern” game. Since I don’t have nostalgia for his old style of games there is nothing there to make me want to support the project.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by TiLT »

ColdSteel wrote:3 days to go and it doesn't look like this one is going to make it.
Nonsense. He's at roughly 85% funding with 3 days to go, and the last two days are typically the most profitable for Kickstarter campaigns. I'd say the chance of the campaign not making it is almost non-existing.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

I'm surprised that with the big resurgence the last couple of years in tbs, a publisher hasn't jumped on it, even someone mid-level like Matrix or Paradox.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by TiLT »

And it's funded, with time to spare. Told you so. ;)
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Daehawk »

When Ken said it had been 20 years since X-Com it hit me like a shock...been 20 years!? Holy...
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Matrix »

I really like this sort of games, so i am in for 20.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by NickAragua »

I played the little prototype and it's definitely got some fun mechanics. I didn't back the kickstarter, but I'll be watching to see where this goes for sure and will probably buy it when it comes out (unless development really goes out to left field).

Quick summary:
Each player controls a wizard on a fairly small hex board. You have a limited number of spells that you can cast, which are mostly "summon creature" but there are also some direct attacks, self-buffs and a spell called "disbelieve".

Each time you cast a spell, you have a chance of casting it successfully. Each spell also has an order/chaos value, so that (for example) every time you cast an order spell, the global order/chaos counter goes up. As that counter goes up, the chance of successfully casting similarly aligned spells goes up.

You can also cast a summoning spell as an illusion. This is always successful, but the enemy wizard can "disbelieve" your fake dragon or whatever and then he goes away. It still makes the order/chaos counter move, so a strategy is to cast a bunch of throwaway spells to drive the counter up so that you can have a chance of casting a real high-power spell.

There are also a few interplays between creature types, and you can mount certain creatures to give your wizard extra protection and mobility.

You can play the prototype online at http://chaos1.vm.bytemark.co.uk/ChaosRe ... t_web.html. Right now it's got 1v1, 2v2, 3 and 4 player ffa, as well as private games. Just be warned, it's a little uh, prototypey.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

And here's an explanation of how the single player game will work. This is is what I'm interested in.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

This is now out on Steam as EA and on a 2 week launch sale until the 16th. I found a great let's play of a match on YouTube by Scott Manley if anyone wants to see what the gameplay looks like. He's playing against his daughter and she's just as cute as can be. And as sharp as a little tack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQdBHy8ytU
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

I'm interested but holding off until single player is included.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Archinerd »

I'm a Kickstarter backer on this one, but I don't play Early Access games. Too many finished games to play first.

I might start it up just to see what it is though, since I don't actually know anything about it other than it's Julian Gollop's new game.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

Since the sale ends Tuesday, I bit.

Played my first 3 games and managed to win 1 of them. I can see this is the epitome of "easy to learn, hard to master". One question - are the odds of casting a particular spell in a turn the same for everyone, or does the level of your wizard have an effect?

I'd be up for an async game with anyone of you who would like to kick my ass.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by baelthazar »

tgb wrote:Since the sale ends Tuesday, I bit.

Played my first 3 games and managed to win 1 of them. I can see this is the epitome of "easy to learn, hard to master". One question - are the odds of casting a particular spell in a turn the same for everyone, or does the level of your wizard have an effect?

I'd be up for an async game with anyone of you who would like to kick my ass.
I might take you up on that. I haven't played at all, so I would be a complete newbie. Are you using the Steam client?

I go by Baelthazar on Steam as well, so friend me!
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

tgb wrote:One question - are the odds of casting a particular spell in a turn the same for everyone, or does the level of your wizard have an effect?
The level of your wizard doesn't matter for that. The success percentages are the same for all the players in the game. The percentages do change though depending on how many chaos or law spells are cast in-game. There's a slider that shows which way the game is tilting. If more chaos spells are cast in game than law spells, for example, then your chances of success for casting chaos spells goes up and the percentages for success for casting law spells goes down. So, it's dynamic during the game. At least, that's how I understand it.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

baelthazar wrote:
tgb wrote:Since the sale ends Tuesday, I bit.

Played my first 3 games and managed to win 1 of them. I can see this is the epitome of "easy to learn, hard to master". One question - are the odds of casting a particular spell in a turn the same for everyone, or does the level of your wizard have an effect?

I'd be up for an async game with anyone of you who would like to kick my ass.
I might take you up on that. I haven't played at all, so I would be a complete newbie. Are you using the Steam client?

I go by Baelthazar on Steam as well, so friend me!
And I'm tgb12. We don't have to go through Steam - I'm playing an async game that was set up over at Qt3, and it was just a matter of someone setting up the game and distribution the password.

In fact, if anyone else wants to jump on board, I'll set it up.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Archinerd »

tgb wrote:
baelthazar wrote:
tgb wrote:Since the sale ends Tuesday, I bit.

Played my first 3 games and managed to win 1 of them. I can see this is the epitome of "easy to learn, hard to master". One question - are the odds of casting a particular spell in a turn the same for everyone, or does the level of your wizard have an effect?

I'd be up for an async game with anyone of you who would like to kick my ass.
I might take you up on that. I haven't played at all, so I would be a complete newbie. Are you using the Steam client?

I go by Baelthazar on Steam as well, so friend me!
And I'm tgb12. We don't have to go through Steam - I'm playing an async game that was set up over at Qt3, and it was just a matter of someone setting up the game and distribution the password.

In fact, if anyone else wants to jump on board, I'll set it up.
Count me in. I don't know how to play yet but it shouldn't take too long to figure out the basics.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

That's 3. Room for 1 more, first come first served. If we don't have a fourth by tomorrow AM, I'll set it up for 3.

And Archinerd, the rules are pretty simple. Watch a game or two and then play one and you'll pick it right up. If I can do it, anyone can.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Archinerd »

tgb wrote: And Archinerd, the rules are pretty simple. Watch a game or two and then play one and you'll pick it right up. If I can do it, anyone can.
That's exactly what I did. Watched a game then jumped into a free for all 4-player. It went well, I won. You guys are in for a world of hurt, I'm a natural!
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by baelthazar »

I looked for "tgb12" on Steam and no dice. Send me a friend request!
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

baelthazar wrote:I looked for "tgb12" on Steam and no dice. Send me a friend request!
There were several baelthazars listed. I hope I sent it to the right one. Are you
Spoiler:
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Archinerd »

I really like this game, and it looks like lots of features aren't even in the game yet.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

Looks like it's myself, Archinerd, and bael. 20 turns, and 20 day maximum waiting for input. Go to "join private game" and put in game id 27409 and password tgb.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by MonkeyFinger »

tgb wrote:I'm interested but holding off until single player is included.
Same here... but is it actually coming at some point?
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

MonkeyFinger wrote:
tgb wrote:I'm interested but holding off until single player is included.
Same here... but is it actually coming at some point?
The next major update is supposed to contain some element of single-player play. Probably one-off battles against the AI. I'd be surprised if we see the campaign this early. Developer says it will possibly be out before Xmas.

But don't let that deter you. I usually avoid on-line games because of the time commitment. Chaos Reborn plays very quickly. I've never seen anyone (even in my first game) need the whole 3 minutes of the timer, and I've yet to see a game go the full 20 turns. Because all kills are one-shot kills, with a little luck (good or bad) a game can be over on the 2nd turn. I've been on both sides of that.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Archinerd »

tgb wrote:
MonkeyFinger wrote:
tgb wrote:I'm interested but holding off until single player is included.
Same here... but is it actually coming at some point?
The next major update is supposed to contain some element of single-player play. Probably one-off battles against the AI. I'd be surprised if we see the campaign this early. Developer says it will possibly be out before Xmas.

But don't let that deter you. I usually avoid on-line games because of the time commitment. Chaos Reborn plays very quickly. I've never seen anyone (even in my first game) need the whole 3 minutes of the timer, and I've yet to see a game go the full 20 turns. Because all kills are one-shot kills, with a little luck (good or bad) a game can be over on the 2nd turn. I've been on both sides of that.
I had a player time-out or just go AFK in one game, so we were all held hostage for 3 minutes while his timer ticked down.
There should be a way to kick him but it may not be possible to get a system that is functional and immune to abuse. Still, it only happened once in the dozens of games I played yesterday so not an big problem.

As far as single player vs. AI, the only value I see in that is learning the game. But honestly it's so easy to pick up that even that is of limited value (to me).
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

I happened once to me when I was poised to deliver a game-winning blow. I got credited with the win anyway, so no matter.

I agree single battles against the AI won't be worth much more than an opportunity to practice strategies, but meta-game they are talking about sounds interesting, similar to the Microprose MtG game.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by stimpy »

tgb wrote:I agree single battles against the AI won't be worth much more than an opportunity to practice strategies, but meta-game they are talking about sounds interesting, similar to the Microprose MtG game.
OMG....if they can swing something similar to that game, I will be all over this.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

I went ahead and bought this since they said it wouldn't be on sale during the Christmas Steam sale.
tgb wrote:Looks like it's myself, Archinerd, and bael. 20 turns, and 20 day maximum waiting for input. Go to "join private game" and put in game id 27409 and password tgb.
Ah, tgb, can you boot me from your game? I plugged in the id to see if I could make it a 4 person game but it doesn't look like it allows that since it still says "3 person game" and now I think I'm taking up a slot meant for bael or Archinerd. So please boot me if you can. Sorry for the screw-up. :doh:
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by Archinerd »

ColdSteel wrote:I went ahead and bought this since they said it wouldn't be on sale during the Christmas Steam sale.
tgb wrote:Looks like it's myself, Archinerd, and bael. 20 turns, and 20 day maximum waiting for input. Go to "join private game" and put in game id 27409 and password tgb.
Ah, tgb, can you boot me from your game? I plugged in the id to see if I could make it a 4 person game but it doesn't look like it allows that since it still says "3 person game" and now I think I'm taking up a slot meant for bael or Archinerd. So please boot me if you can. Sorry for the screw-up. :doh:
...or if its not too much hassle just restart as a 4-person?
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

There doesn't seem to be a way to edit or delete existing games, so I just created a different one, this time for 4.

Game ID is 28300. Password is still tgb. Coldsteel, you'll have to sign in again for this one.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

tgb wrote:Coldsteel, you'll have to sign in again for this one.
Okay, I joined the 4 player game. So we need 2 more for that one and 1 more for the 3 player game. I'm assuming you can play more than one asynch game at once?
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

Yeah. Choose "Asynchronous Games" from the multi-player menu, and it lists the state of all the games in which you are participating.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

I played a couple of quick 2-player games via the matchmaker. It's a lot of fun. I lost my first game when I took a big risk bringing my wizard in range of an archer to try a subversion spell on it which failed and he killed me immediately. I won the second one pretty easily as the poor guy I was playing kept having his spells fail. It only took about 15 minutes per game, which is great. I found it easy to learn how to play but it seems to have a lot of variety and tactical depth. It's already a pretty sweet game and I can't wait to see it fleshed out some more.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by tgb »

Luck definitely plays a big part - perhaps too big. My last game I started off with three copies of the "Creeping Vine" spell, or whatever it's called. I was able to create a wall between my opponent and the mana nodes. While he was futilely hacking away at vines, I was running around grabbing all the mana until I could unleash a mega-spell on his ass, winning the game.

Yay, me.
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Re: [Kickstarter] Chaos Reborn by X-Com Co-Creator

Post by ColdSteel »

Yeah, the RNG plays a big role but that's what the "chaos" in the name is all about. I like it because you never know how a game is going to turn out. I just played my third game and on the first turn the other wizard went for a big mana node at the center of the map and cast a skeleton in front of him at the end of his first turn. On my first turn, I saw that if I moved forward too, I could cast subversion on his skeleton. Which I did successfully and it left him sitting there right next to it. He cast vines but I hunted him down and killed him in 3 turns with his own skelly (my subverted skelly's attempts to kill him failed on the first 2 turns but got him on the 3rd). I tried something similar in my first game but it backfired on me and I lost when my subversion failed and an elf archer popped me. Lots of risk/reward decisions to make in this game. I love it.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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