New From Sid Meier - Beyond Earth

[RMC]

DW is almost in a class by itself. Not only would I not compare it to Endless Legend, I'm not even sure I'd compare it to others in the same (SF 4X) genre like GalCiv or MOO II.

I actually hate DW. Spent many hours trying to like it, and watched tons of videos learning it. But meh is all I could muster for an opinion of it.

[tgb]

DW is almost in a class by itself. Not only would I not compare it to Endless Legend, I'm not even sure I'd compare it to others in the same (SF 4X) genre like GalCiv or MOO II.

I actually hate DW. Spent many hours trying to like it, and watched tons of videos learning it. But meh is all I could muster for an opinion of it.

Like I said, a class of it's own, and certainly not everyone's cup of meat. What didn't you like about it?

[RMC]

DW is almost in a class by itself. Not only would I not compare it to Endless Legend, I'm not even sure I'd compare it to others in the same (SF 4X) genre like GalCiv or MOO II.

I actually hate DW. Spent many hours trying to like it, and watched tons of videos learning it. But meh is all I could muster for an opinion of it.

Like I said, a class of it's own, and certainly not everyone's cup of meat. What didn't you like about it?

I guess I always felt that there was stuff I could not control, and felt like the game was playing itself when I ratcheted it down to where I was comfortable with the decisions.

Also, I like turn based, and hate real time anything. Part of the reason I never can get into the Gal Civ games, and the Sword of the stars, and one other I am not remembering the name of.

The last "real Time" space type game I liked was Star Control 2, and I think I loved the control of a single ship, and actually have fond memories of playing Starflight with my father. So maybe that is why I liked Star Control 2 so much. <shrug> My father has been dead for 14 years, so who knows...

[tgb]

Ummmm..............you DO know that the GalCIv games are turn based, not real time, right?

One of the things I like about DW is it lets you have exactly how much control you want. I pretty much play with everything set to "ask me first", except for colonization and diplomacy, which I control myself. I feel that satisfied my inner Galactic Lord quite nicely.

[RMC]

Ummmm..............you DO know that the GalCIv games are turn based, not real time, right?

One of the things I like about DW is it lets you have exactly how much control you want. I pretty much play with everything set to "ask me first", except for colonization and diplomacy, which I control myself. I feel that satisfied my inner Galactic Lord quite nicely.

Isn't the combat real time in Gal civ?

I own one and two, but have not played them in a long time.. Maybe I am remembering them wrong.

[Kraken]

Isn't the combat real time in Gal civ?

I own one and two, but have not played them in a long time.. Maybe I am remembering them wrong.

No, there is no tactical combat at all.

[RMC]

Isn't the combat real time in Gal civ?

I own one and two, but have not played them in a long time.. Maybe I am remembering them wrong.

No, there is no tactical combat at all.

Hmmm. Maybe that was it. Now I wonder if I am mixing it up with one of those other games.

[tgb]

Isn't the combat real time in Gal civ?

I own one and two, but have not played them in a long time.. Maybe I am remembering them wrong.

No, there is no tactical combat at all.

Hmmm. Maybe that was it. Now I wonder if I am mixing it up with one of those other games.

Sounds like you're thinking of Sword of the Stars.

[Brian]

Ugh. The Civilization franchise turned into Trade Route Tycoon so slowly I never noticed.

I wish they would at least put the Previous Route at the top of the list to help save on scrolling.

[Exodor]

Ugh. The Civilization franchise turned into Trade Route Tycoon so slowly I never noticed.

I wish they would at least put the Previous Route at the top of the list to help save on scrolling.

That would be huge and hopefully will be coming in a patch. I've seen mods that will make the Previous Route notice BRIGHT RED which helps a bit.

I'm really liking the mod that increases trade route duration to 80 turns. It's long enough to make management less of a bother but not permanent so I get a chance to optimize them every so often.

[Jeff V]

Something needs to be done to make managing trade routes less tedious, but I don't think extending them is the right answer. When I am rush-building a Wonder, for example, I rarely need the trade routes to linger more than 10 or 20 turns. When done, they get reassigned to any emerging cities so they can rapidly get up to speed, or assigned back to international routes. And the thing about auto-renewal is that the route might be the best option when you created it, but no longer (and sometimes by a great deal) when it is time to renew.

I think what I'd like to see is a management screen that is spreadsheet-like and allows for variable lengths to be specified. Columns would include cities (all cities that the trade unit can reach), another column stating what that city (if yours) is producing and the number of turns to completion. Another column could show the current route, if any. Another column would set the route, with "Last route" shown by default. It should be possible to receive a notification of expired trade routes, click it to go to the management screen, and, as long as the "last route" is still valid, require no other action to retain the previous route.

[Lorini]

Yeah and I like your suggestion as well. You want to move them around as needed but the interface they are using to do that is bad.

[LordMortis]

Something needs to be done to make managing trade routes less tedious, but I don't think extending them is the right answer.

I think it would help but not be the answer. Maybe setting trip times would help. I don't want to be bothered as often as I am with 5 towns, what happens if I am running 10 or 20 or more?

I think what I'd like to see is a management screen that is spreadsheet-like and allows for variable lengths to be specified. Columns would include cities (all cities that the trade unit can reach), another column stating what that city (if yours) is producing and the number of turns to completion. Another column could show the current route, if any. Another column would set the route, with "Last route" shown by default. It should be possible to receive a notification of expired trade routes, click it to go to the management screen, and, as long as the "last route" is still valid, require no other action to retain the previous route.

The spreadsheet would also be good. I'd like to be able to sort by things like "most total resources" "Most Energy" "Most Research" "Most Production", etc...

[The Meal]

The patch covers a lot of issues that the game's players have been bringing up in the three weeks since launch. After complaints that the game is too easy even on the highest difficulty levels, the developer is reworking the difficulty scaling for this upcoming patch. The patch also touches on the game's Health system. Players quickly found out that the penalties they incurred for having very low Health were manageable compared to the benefits of having a sprawling empire. This led to players winning games while having Health values in the negative hundreds, a result that should be taken care of in the update.

As you might expect from a strategy game, Civilization: Beyond Earth's patches will also have much to do with balancing the game. According to the livestream, almost everything in the game – from military units to virtues to factions leader bonuses – will be balanced in one way or another.

Of course, the patch will try to squash some of the bugs that have popped up these three weeks, including issues where the game's achievements wouldn't fire properly and a number of game-crashing events that users have submitted.

[Sepiche]

Glad they're finally releasing a patch and sounds like a sizable one. Looking forward to trying it out.

[LordMortis]

Anything about trade routes?

[Sepiche]

Here we go:

[GAMEPLAY]
• Revisiting difficulty level scaling. Increasing difficulty when playing on Apollo.
• Implementing balance pass on Health system (penalties, bonuses).
• Adjusting certain Virtues for balance.
• Implementing overall unit balance pass (strength, production and strategic resource cost, affinity level requirements, location on tech web).
• Implementing leader/sponsor trait balance pass (Kozlov, Barre, Rejinaldo, and Elodie), as well as some seeded start option adjustments.
• Implementing Covert Ops updates and exploit fixes.
• Implementing Trade Route balance and adjustments, including simpler UI.
• Implementing gameplay bug fixes as reported in the community (Quests, etc.).
• Implementing general AI improvements.
• Adjusting Affinity reward ramping when earning Affinity from Quests.
• Adjusting Station distribution, and arrival timing.
• Improving AI, including energy management, tactical management, tech and victory approaches, etc.

[ENGINE]
• Correcting screen resolution problems, particularly related to the 144hz refresh rate full-screen (or lack of full-screen) issue.
• Investigating a start-up problem where the game shuts down with an error immediately following the opening movie.
• Investigating crash issues submitted by users, and through Steam crash reporting.
• Adding an in-game option to disable depth of field effect for players that prefer the game without this.

[UI]
• Ongoing updates to in-game text, tool-tips, etc.
• Correcting an issue where actions could be missing from embarked workers (like repairing a pillaged water improvement)
• Adding "Completed" section to city production menu so players know what they just finished.
• Adding advanced touch controls, gesture support, pen support.
• Adding color icons to the tech web (categorized) with an option to disable.
• Better inform players of approaching AI victory, and updated victory/defeat screen with additional information.

[ACHIEVEMENTS]
• Achievements not firing if Max Turns was set in previous games. Also investigating some other possible causes.

[MODDING]
• Fixing 2D leader fall-back image support for all graphics quality settings

[MULTIPLAYER]
• Correcting multiple desyncs and investigating a crash due to content mismatch.
• Ongoing multiplayer improvements.
• Increasing geographic range of server browser distance filter.

[LordMortis]

WHOO HOO!!!!

[Jeff V]

When is the patch being released?

My last game, I built cities unchecked, had a substantial negative health for a while, but after coddling health techs and bonuses that arrive mid-late game, I suddenly found myself at more than +200 health. I think there needs to be more health-improvement options in the early game if the effects of negative health are going to be increased. If not, I expect to see the AI equally hampered -- as it is, you can't really keep pace with them and stay positive early.

[Sepiche]

When is the patch being released?

No announced date yet.

[El Guapo]

So...trade route UI issue aside, how is the game? Thinking about picking it up, though I could also get Civ 5 instead. Or just fire up another game of Crusader Kings 2.

[Jeff V]

So...trade route UI issue aside, how is the game? Thinking about picking it up, though I could also get Civ 5 instead. Or just fire up another game of Crusader Kings 2.

It's more abstract than Civ 5 because a lot of the shit is made up. It's harder to identify with tech, resources, units, etc. It lacks the compelling storyline and diplomacy of SMAC. The game is too easy -- in Civ, expanding too quickly will almost always be a failing strategy; here, the negative impact doesn't seem too harmful at all. It's easy to build up a fortune and raise an army whenever needed. Genocide of alien life forms does not appear to have much effect beyond maybe cheesing off a few AI players.

If choosing between the two, Civ 5 (with expansions) is by far the most polished product. Maybe BE will be improved, but I don't see it having nearly the legs of Civ 5.

[Kraken]

So...trade route UI issue aside, how is the game? Thinking about picking it up, though I could also get Civ 5 instead. Or just fire up another game of Crusader Kings 2.

It's more abstract than Civ 5 because a lot of the shit is made up. It's harder to identify with tech, resources, units, etc. It lacks the compelling storyline and diplomacy of SMAC. The game is too easy -- in Civ, expanding too quickly will almost always be a failing strategy; here, the negative impact doesn't seem too harmful at all. It's easy to build up a fortune and raise an army whenever needed. Genocide of alien life forms does not appear to have much effect beyond maybe cheesing off a few AI players.

If choosing between the two, Civ 5 (with expansions) is by far the most polished product. Maybe BE will be improved, but I don't see it having nearly the legs of Civ 5.

I'm a huge 4X/Civ/Sid Meier fan and I won't be buying this game until it's dirt cheap and/or expanded and patched several times. Based on this thread, version 1.0 sounds like it is to Civ5 what Colonization was to Civ4 -- right down to tedious trade route micromanagement. I wanted to love Colonization but ended up playing it all of twice.

[RMC]

So...trade route UI issue aside, how is the game? Thinking about picking it up, though I could also get Civ 5 instead. Or just fire up another game of Crusader Kings 2.

It's more abstract than Civ 5 because a lot of the shit is made up. It's harder to identify with tech, resources, units, etc. It lacks the compelling storyline and diplomacy of SMAC. The game is too easy -- in Civ, expanding too quickly will almost always be a failing strategy; here, the negative impact doesn't seem too harmful at all. It's easy to build up a fortune and raise an army whenever needed. Genocide of alien life forms does not appear to have much effect beyond maybe cheesing off a few AI players.

If choosing between the two, Civ 5 (with expansions) is by far the most polished product. Maybe BE will be improved, but I don't see it having nearly the legs of Civ 5.

I'm a huge 4X/Civ/Sid Meier fan and I won't be buying this game until it's dirt cheap and/or expanded and patched several times. Based on this thread, version 1.0 sounds like it is to Civ5 what Colonization was to Civ4 -- right down to tedious trade route micromanagement. I wanted to love Colonization but ended up playing it all of twice.

I think that Jeff V is being a little harsh about the game. There are warts, but the game is cool, and once it has a few patches it will be a great game. But I think it also is a good idea to wait for the patches and one more sale.

[Jeff V]

I've finished 8 games so far. I don't think I'm being harsh at all, just being thorough.

[RMC]

I've finished 8 games so far. I don't think I'm being harsh at all, just being thorough.

Well, I guess I read more into your statements then.

[Jeff V]

I've finished 8 games so far. I don't think I'm being harsh at all, just being thorough.

Well, I guess I read more into your statements then.

I was just trying to answer the initial question whether to go with Civ 5 or BE. Civ 5 is far and away the more polished product, and for reasons I mentioned has better "legs" even if BE realizes its full potential. As far as BE's current short comings, they are worthy of mention, although they haven't stopped me from playing but still the game doesn't have the addictive appeal of Civ 5. Yesterday I started my first multiplayer game and it was stable and fast -- things Civ 5 wasn't at the outset that caused it to be abandon by a group of friends.

[El Guapo]

Thanks for the input. I also have a backlog, so I might (either intentionally or by default) wait until Beyond Earth becomes more polished, I suppose.

[Lorini]

HUGE patch. Haven't played a new game with it yet, but will be.

[Torfish]

HUGE patch. Haven't played a new game with it yet, but will be.

Thanks for the heads up, been waiting for this patch. Looking forward to trying it out. I enjoy the game but it definitely needs the polish. I'll have fun along the way... as it matures.

Next up, waiting for the first DLC details.

[Lorini]

Well, they nerfed the holy hell out of trade. Much different game now.

[Jeff V]

Is trade still a PITA to manage? I wonder how the patch will effect games in progress (esp. multiplayer).

[Brian]

Well, for one thing they listened to me (yes, me. Get over it. ) and put the previous route at the top of the available routes list.

They also clarified exactly what each end of the trade route is receiving.

[Lorini]

Is trade still a PITA to manage? I wonder how the patch will effect games in progress (esp. multiplayer).

There's a lot less of it to manage, so there's that.

[Jeff V]

Does diplomacy seem entirely random to anyone else now? My neighbors go from friendly to war in a heart beat with no apparent cause. Trade routes with them do not seem to sway them in the least. It's still early game, and I'm forced to produce nothing but military and then when a second AI declares war, it's usually over.

[tgb]

Does diplomacy seem entirely random to anyone else now? My neighbors go from friendly to war in a heart beat with no apparent cause. Trade routes with them do not seem to sway them in the least. It's still early game, and I'm forced to produce nothing but military and then when a second AI declares war, it's usually over.

Yep. It happened in my last game, which is why I rage-quit and still haven't gone back.

[Lorini]

Does diplomacy seem entirely random to anyone else now? My neighbors go from friendly to war in a heart beat with no apparent cause. Trade routes with them do not seem to sway them in the least. It's still early game, and I'm forced to produce nothing but military and then when a second AI declares war, it's usually over.

The reason this happens (and it happens in regular Civ V as well) is because you are seen as militarily weak. No diplomacy without guns. You just have to produce enough military to make them have to deal with you diplomatically, otherwise they think it's simpler to just eliminate you.

[Freezer-TPF-]

Human players would backstab you without warning, so I don't mind when the computer does it. I understand how that could be frustrating, though, if that's not the way you prefer to play.

[Jeff V]

Does diplomacy seem entirely random to anyone else now? My neighbors go from friendly to war in a heart beat with no apparent cause. Trade routes with them do not seem to sway them in the least. It's still early game, and I'm forced to produce nothing but military and then when a second AI declares war, it's usually over.

The reason this happens (and it happens in regular Civ V as well) is because you are seen as militarily weak. No diplomacy without guns. You just have to produce enough military to make them have to deal with you diplomatically, otherwise they think it's simpler to just eliminate you.

I pretty much have to build units all of the time. Last game, my neighbor to the south went from happy trade partner to war with no provocation, and no military superiority. He refuses to make peace unless I return the border town that I annexed after he used it as a base to launch 3 such back-stabbing attacks. I have military dominance over him.

Meanwhile, though, another supposedly friendly border was invaded by another previously happy trade partner, just as I switched production to something other than military units for a bit. Since I'm not going to give the first back-stabber his border city back, I have to maintain my southern front. I already lost 1 city in the north and now have to raise another army to fight a two-front war. All the while, I'll be slipping further and further behind in tech and culture as I have no respite for development.

I think I'll just go back to Civ 5 and wait for the next patch.

[Lorini]

What difficulty are you playing on?