Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

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Smoove_B
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Smoove_B »

Just finished last night - what an awesome ride. ~33 hours and that includes all the treasuring hunting and side quests. Yes, you become absurdly powerful in the second half of the game, but I still had a ton of fun creeping around and sowing chaos. I also don't know if I'm giving the game too much credit, but during the final "pre-battle":
Spoiler:
The game had the one orc bastard that killed me numerous times appear as the nemesis I had to defeat. I was absolutely angry when I saw him and I'm assuming he was selected because he'd killed me the most in the game
If that's true, that's a nice touch, but overall I felt like each one of the leaders did have their own quirks and personalities - even if it was something I simply had to take into consideration for killing them.

Big fan of the game and I've seen some Black Friday rumors suggesting it will be $29 at various retail locations. Here's hoping there's a similar digital sale as it's absolutely my GotY (though I also recognize my list of games played this year is rather small, YMMV).
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by GreenGoo »

Smoove_B wrote:Just finished last night - what an awesome ride. ~33 hours and that includes all the treasuring hunting and side quests. Yes, you become absurdly powerful in the second half of the game, but I still had a ton of fun creeping around and sowing chaos. I also don't know if I'm giving the game too much credit, but during the final "pre-battle":
Spoiler:
The game had the one orc bastard that killed me numerous times appear as the nemesis I had to defeat. I was absolutely angry when I saw him and I'm assuming he was selected because he'd killed me the most in the game
If that's true, that's a nice touch, but overall I felt like each one of the leaders did have their own quirks and personalities - even if it was something I simply had to take into consideration for killing them.

Big fan of the game and I've seen some Black Friday rumors suggesting it will be $29 at various retail locations. Here's hoping there's a similar digital sale as it's absolutely my GotY (though I also recognize my list of games played this year is rather small, YMMV).
It's true, although it was my son who pointed it out to me.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by noxiousdog »

GreenGoo wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:Just finished last night - what an awesome ride. ~33 hours and that includes all the treasuring hunting and side quests. Yes, you become absurdly powerful in the second half of the game, but I still had a ton of fun creeping around and sowing chaos. I also don't know if I'm giving the game too much credit, but during the final "pre-battle":
Spoiler:
The game had the one orc bastard that killed me numerous times appear as the nemesis I had to defeat. I was absolutely angry when I saw him and I'm assuming he was selected because he'd killed me the most in the game
If that's true, that's a nice touch, but overall I felt like each one of the leaders did have their own quirks and personalities - even if it was something I simply had to take into consideration for killing them.

Big fan of the game and I've seen some Black Friday rumors suggesting it will be $29 at various retail locations. Here's hoping there's a similar digital sale as it's absolutely my GotY (though I also recognize my list of games played this year is rather small, YMMV).
It's true, although it was my son who pointed it out to me.
Absolutely true. I hate that guy.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Doomboy »

So I got this through the amazon sale, and after an initial bout of confusion and too much freedom, I think I am getting the hang of what I need to do. It is a lot more open ended than any other sandbox type game I have played. And they didn't really tell me what I should do first, so I just went out and got killed trying to be a badass.

Now, I have almost all the first tier skills, I have killed about ten captains, made enemies with at least one, who loves taunting me about how I keep running away from him (hey, brave guy, if you weren't surrounded by a hundred orcs, I think you would be the one running away sharpish!), and I have unlocked some neat runes for my weapons.

I agree with most everything everyone has said. This is the most fun game I've played so far this year. I guess it helps that I had almost no expectations of it, the one I did, it has kinda blown out of the water, it only superficially resembles an Assassin's Creed game.

I like that it tells me about orcs that have killed people on my friends list, so I can go avenge them. Got two so far, one who killed Coop and one who killed Smoove.

Still not entirely sure what the end game is, but I am having fun getting better at combat and killing orcs. They are even more guiltless to kill than Nazis.

One thing that puzzles me is why Ratbag thinks he is an Uruk. He seems about the same size as a regular old Orc to me...
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Lordnine »

I also got this as part of the Amazon sale. I have to say, my first hour with the game I actually hated it. I don’t think it does a great job explaining itself. The thing I really enjoyed about Farcry 3 (the last open world game I played) was clearing the camps and systematically making the island safe. Mordor doesn’t have this. In fact, Orcs respawn so fast that killing them is rather pointless.

Once I realized this, and learned how ridiculously overpowered stealth is, I started to have a lot of fun. At this point the only time I use my sword is if I screw up, otherwise, I stick purely to one shot stealth kills and sniping enemies with my bow. It’s very satisfying to kill a captain without ever having him realize you’re even there.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Baroquen »

I also got this through the Amazon sale, and I'm in between. I had some fun so far, but I still feel pretty confused. But it's certainly intriguing enough, that I'm about to go play it again. Let's see how lost I can get this time. :)
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by GreenGoo »

The main missions are telling a story. It's fairly coherent (if I recall correctly) and gives you direction. Everything else is just there for fun and to make you stronger. If you're confused and frustrated, just follow the main story until you get stuck, then do some side missions to level up a bit. Rescue slaves are fairly easy, or do the dagger missions which tend to be easier than the bow or sword missions early in the game. Later some of the dagger missions are some of the most challenging in the game (imo).

Get used to combat, run away when you need to, work on rescuing slaves or dagger missions to power up a bit, and just have fun.

The orc skins are crazy varied, I found it amazing how unique each and every orc was, even when one was just a combination of other features you'd already seen. Interrogate everyone you can, use their weaknesses against them piss them off. It's fun making them mad or scared.

Break line of sight, stealth and regroup, then head back in for some more fun. Even running around a corner then immediately climbing a wall can throw them off your trail (although you're probably not inside strongholds yet). Or just run away. Every time you die, an orc (or orcs) get stronger, so staying alive is important (but not imperative).
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Lordnine »

Bushes are OP (and hilarious!)

I have cleared numerous camps by just sitting in a bush, luring over an orc, and doing a stealth kill. The death attracts nearby orcs one by one and as long as you stay in your bush they will never detect you. This also works on bosses if you see the trait that says they are vulnerable to stealth finishers.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Blackhawk »

Lordnine wrote:Bushes are OP (and hilarious!)
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by GreenGoo »

Lordnine wrote:Bushes are OP (and hilarious!)

I have cleared numerous camps by just sitting in a bush, luring over an orc, and doing a stealth kill. The death attracts nearby orcs one by one and as long as you stay in your bush they will never detect you. This also works on bosses if you see the trait that says they are vulnerable to stealth finishers.
Don't forget your bow has a distract ability as well, so if you need to turn someone around (so they face away from you) or to split up 2 guards, you can distract both then attract one and they will head off in two directions, one towards you and the other away. Good way to remain undetected if the mission requires it and 2 guards are joined at the hip.

You can distract from halfway across the map (as far as you can see anyway) so use that in interesting ways.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by coopasonic »

Doomboy wrote:I like that it tells me about orcs that have killed people on my friends list, so I can go avenge them. Got two so far, one who killed Coop and one who killed Smoove.
I deny that I was ever killed by any orc... but if I was, thanks for taking care of that problem. :)

It is confusing and open-ended to start with, but as GreenGoo mentions, your direction comes from the story missions and it becomes more clear through the game. You never really know what's going on, but you'll get a better idea of what you are supposed to be doing at least and some idea of why.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by GreenGoo »

coopasonic wrote:
Doomboy wrote:I like that it tells me about orcs that have killed people on my friends list, so I can go avenge them. Got two so far, one who killed Coop and one who killed Smoove.
I deny that I was ever killed by any orc... but if I was, thanks for taking care of that problem. :)

It is confusing and open-ended to start with, but as GreenGoo mentions, your direction comes from the story missions and it becomes more clear through the game. You never really know what's going on, but you'll get a better idea of what you are supposed to be doing at least and some idea of why.
Yeah, it's almost a "I woke up with amnesia and now I need to find out what's going on and who I am" story without the amnesia but with all the "what's going on" part.

Another tip, you can turn off arrow time while in bow mode. This allows you to do a bunch of stuff (including the distractions mentioned above) without wasting your arrow time timer. Once you're ready to start putting arrows into heads/faces, you can turn it back on. I used a controller, so for me it was done by pressing the right stick, not sure what it is on the keyboard. Arrows do the same damage whether you're in arrow time or not, so if you run out of arrow time, you can still be effective with your bow, you just need to be quicker. It's easier to do with the mouse and keyboard than it is with the analog stick, but it can be done with both.

If you have a rune that scares orcs in the vicinity of a headshot, putting an arrow in an orc's face during a furball can make them scatter, buying you some breathing room and time. This is useful in the early game more so than the later game.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by GreenGoo »

Just noticed they added more achievements. I think I was only missing 3, but now I'm missing 16.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Buatha »

I bought this during Black Friday and really digging it so far. Just to demo it, my friend fired it up and he tried to run into the fray and start "kicking ass" as he put it. Well, something got kicked. Safe to say, I deleted that save and started the game again :)

My only questions, so far, are about the random enemies in an area:
1) Do they ever stop spawning so often after taking down Captains or other major enemies in missions?
2) If I keep killing them in an area, will their presence grow in response to me staying in an area...effectively punishing you for loitering like Left 4 Dead did?
3) I was surprised to see something like a Cave Troll in the starting area with what looked like 3 Claw Marks and a semi-circle over his head. What does that mean? His toughness and/or health?
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Buatha »

Man, can I kill a thread or what? :)
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by naednek »

I still need to finish this. I'm in the 2nd half, and just got bored. The gameplay is very repititious. The nemesis system is cool at first, but it gets tiresome after a while and it makes you realize there's not much depth to the game.

Maybe by taking a month break will bring back some interest again.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Smoove_B »

Buatha wrote: My only questions, so far, are about the random enemies in an area:
1) Do they ever stop spawning so often after taking down Captains or other major enemies in missions?
2) If I keep killing them in an area, will their presence grow in response to me staying in an area...effectively punishing you for loitering like Left 4 Dead did?
3) I was surprised to see something like a Cave Troll in the starting area with what looked like 3 Claw Marks and a semi-circle over his head. What does that mean? His toughness and/or health?
(1) I don't think so. There will always be patrols and camps. The variety seems to be exactly where Captains or higher level orcs randomly roam (or hang out).

(2) No, but you might start to attract attention - and more will join the fray. Sometimes this can be more fun...unless there are wandering Captains. Then it can get out of hand.

(3) Yes, those are monsters (3 claw marks) that kill anything and everything around them. Use that to your advantage. The circle is indeed health and early on in the game you really don't have any good options against Trolls so don't' loiter. :D
naednek wrote:The gameplay is very repititious. The nemesis system is cool at first, but it gets tiresome after a while and it makes you realize there's not much depth to the game.
I found myself burning out on the side quests and randomly fighting orc leaders for fun. Once I only started completing story missions, the repetition disappeared. Also, the nemesis system led to one of the coolest gaming moments towards the end, so wait until you finish it until you suggest it's tiresome. :wink:
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Buatha »

Thank you, Smoove.

Yes, after seeing my friend's initial attempt to run right to the first mission, I took my time and got a few abilities during my first hour or so of playing. It can get a little hairy when you try to run away only to find the path you've already traveled to be re-filled with baddies. The only bummer is that I didn't realize you don't save where you Quit, so I guess I will be going through the same area again.

I could see how the game could become repetitive if you have long gaming sessions, but unfortunately, I only get to play maybe 1-2 hours on any particular evening (usually not consecutive) due to father/husband duties. I just don't have time for it to get repetitive :)
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Smoove_B »

When I was ready to quit, I would go to the map and use quick travel to get to a tower. That way, I knew my progress was saved. No, you're not going to start exactly where you last left off, but you won't lose any progress.

Dying is a strategy, for what it's worth. You gain some power and it can have benefits to the orc ranks (depending on what your motivations are). But in general, I would try avoiding death. However early on in the game I don't think it's as big of a deal.

I was the same way with play time. It's perfect to fire up for an hour, bang out a few random retrieval quests (finding artifacts or Elf script), put the hurt on a bunch of orcs or work on a weapon quest and then quit.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Lorini »

Excellent review of the game by the designer of Bioshock. Puts the game in a different focus.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by MythicalMino »

Just bought this last night for the PS3...

And now I see that there are "differences" between the PS3 and the PS4 (I honestly really do not keep up with games like I used to).

Does anyone know specifically what the differences are?
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by MonkeyFinger »

The only thing I heard several times was that the Nemesis System would be 'handicapped' or 'reduced' on current gen consoles. But I don't believe we ever got details on exactly how handicapped it turned out to be...
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Enigma »

I'm enjoying the game but I do have two gripes, really they may be the same gripe. One of the captains I've killed keeps coming back, and it usually happens when I've just started combat with a different captain and his gang. Usually on missions, more than one foe appears. This makes it really hard to complete my mission since now I have two jerks to deal with and a gaggle of orcs.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by GreenGoo »

Enigma wrote:I'm enjoying the game but I do have two gripes, really they may be the same gripe. One of the captains I've killed keeps coming back, and it usually happens when I've just started combat with a different captain and his gang. Usually on missions, more than one foe appears. This makes it really hard to complete my mission since now I have two jerks to deal with and a gaggle of orcs.
As far as I'm concerned, that's a feature. That frustration you feel? It's intentional.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Enigma »

GreenGoo wrote:
Enigma wrote:I'm enjoying the game but I do have two gripes, really they may be the same gripe. One of the captains I've killed keeps coming back, and it usually happens when I've just started combat with a different captain and his gang. Usually on missions, more than one foe appears. This makes it really hard to complete my mission since now I have two jerks to deal with and a gaggle of orcs.
As far as I'm concerned, that's a feature. That frustration you feel? It's intentional.
Yes, I guess I just thought it was some kind of bug. But I do enjoy killing the bastard.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by MythicalMino »

yeah, that is pretty much all that I could find about the Nemesis System being handicapped...just that it was, but zero details as to what.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

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MonkeyFinger wrote:The only thing I heard several times was that the Nemesis System would be 'handicapped' or 'reduced' on current gen consoles. But I don't believe we ever got details on exactly how handicapped it turned out to be...
That was on last-generation consoles (PS3/360), and that article was almost a year old, so I'm not sure how much of it remained true.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by MonkeyFinger »

Blackhawk wrote:
MonkeyFinger wrote:The only thing I heard several times was that the Nemesis System would be 'handicapped' or 'reduced' on current gen consoles. But I don't believe we ever got details on exactly how handicapped it turned out to be...
That was on last-generation consoles (PS3/360), and that article was almost a year old, so I'm not sure how much of it remained true.
Right... when it was written those were considered 'current gen' with the PS4/XB1 being 'next gen'... and noted that it was never clarified exactly how much of it they managed to "fit in".
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Kurth »

Just wanted to chime in to say I finished this game up last week and loved every minute of it. Probably my game of the year.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Blackhawk »

The orc names are fantastic. My kids were marvelously entertained when I tagged a captain and the camera zoomed in and the voice announced 'Dûsh' (pronounced 'douche'), and later when I encountered Kaka the Rhymer.

Of course, this is Tolkien's world, and he named Gimli's grandfather 'Gróin', assuming that nobody would mispronounce it.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Blackhawk »

I just finished this on the PS4. I pulled off the platinum trophy - my first (platinum is what you get for getting every other trophy/achievement on Sony systems.) What a fantastic game. Most games see me getting impatient to finish by the 3/4 point, but this one I just wanted to keep on playing.

The story was decent, the characters were great, the visuals were fantastic, and the gameplay was nearly perfect. I haven't had this much fun with a game in years.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by tjg_marantz »

Getting it as soon as it's on sale..can't wait
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Lorini »

Do any of the DLC make the game easier?
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Smoove_B »

I don't think so - I think they actually make it more difficult. Really, once you understand the bigger-picture design of the game the difficulty levels off. At least, it did for me and at some point you become just about unstoppable.

What in particular are you struggling with?
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Blackhawk »

Hint: Make increasing your health your #1 priority. I usually had it two tiers beyond what anything else was. Dying doesn't cost you anything but some time, but it does make the enemies even stronger the next time you face them.

Second hint: Raise ranger stuff first, wraith stuff later.

Third hint: You will have plenty of points to purchase every single thing. When I finished, I had everything unlocked and about 8,000 mirian sitting there with nothing to spend it on.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Lorini »

Smoove_B wrote:I don't think so - I think they actually make it more difficult. Really, once you understand the bigger-picture design of the game the difficulty levels off. At least, it did for me and at some point you become just about unstoppable.

What in particular are you struggling with?
I get creamed all the time. Either I can't get the bow right or there's too many orcs and I die or something. The game is just hard for me and I was hoping maybe the DLC added a lower difficulty level.
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Blackhawk »

Lorini wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:I don't think so - I think they actually make it more difficult. Really, once you understand the bigger-picture design of the game the difficulty levels off. At least, it did for me and at some point you become just about unstoppable.

What in particular are you struggling with?
I get creamed all the time. Either I can't get the bow right or there's too many orcs and I die or something. The game is just hard for me and I was hoping maybe the DLC added a lower difficulty level.
Build up the skills that give you faster combo building (Critical Hit, etc) and learn to not get hit while you build said combos. Also useful is the one that stuns and enemy when you jump over them.

Not getting hit isn't that bad. There are two clear prompts - parry, and dodge.

Do this: Go find about a dozen orcs somewhere in the middle of nowhere. Piss them off. Now, don't attack - just stand there and parry. Parry, parry, parry. You should be able to do that without getting hit at all with a little practice. If there is a berserker or guardian there (two weapons or shield/spear), then stick with it: parry, parry, parry, and dodge when the big guy attacks. Do this for five minutes and you'll be almost unstoppable for the rest of the game.

Good tactical tip: Take out archers/javelin throwers first. If you're in melee dodge your way them and kill them. If you're approaching a camp, look for them and stealth-kill them first. You can't parry arrows.

Also, important tactical option: Run like hell. You do that a lot in the early game.
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Smoove_B
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, I'd echo everything Blackhawk said. I also used the Xbox360 controller - no idea if you're using one or keyboard mouse, but this game felt perfect (to me) with the controller.

The bow is a good harassment tool early on. Not something you really want to rely on for most combat. That will change, but I'd be hesitant to recommend you rely on it for anything other than eliminating ranged fighters as part of an ambush. As Blackhawk said, being able to dodge or parry is critically important. In that sense, it reminded me a lot of Assassin's Creed where you could just dance all day parrying swords and moving in circles. The difference here is that eventually you'll be able to parry and then counter or parry and insta-kill (or even better - don't want to spoil).

It's a bit overwhelming at first but you start to develop situational awareness (you, not the character) and realize when it's time to cut and run. Remember, you're a Ranger - you're all about ambushing, quick kills and then disappearing. The game design includes wandering patrols and then eventually orcs that will sound alarms and attract attention. Very rarely is this something you want to happen - even at a higher character level.

But yes - focus on getting health. Death isn't always bad but it's part of the game design and I think it actually adds a lot to the overall experience -- particularly if it's the same orc that's tormenting you over and over again.

Really, early on I just ran around and collected things - artifacts, plants, animal kills. You're really not a great melee fighter early on and just when you finally figure it out, the game throws ranged units at you while you're melee fighting to make it more fun. Then after that, it will be the shield guys. It's always something - but eventually you figure out the rhythm and it's a beautiful thing.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Blackhawk »

Once you get some focus, the bow is actually very useful in combat. Tumble over an enemy and run two or three steps away, pull the bow and you can headshot two or three of the enemies that are a pain to take down by hand before you run out of focus. Wade back in, then when your focus comes back, repeat.

Of course, once you gain the ability to brand, everything else just goes out the window.
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Lorini
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Re: Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Post by Lorini »

Alrighty guys, thanks very very much for the help. I want to enjoy this game so much but I keep getting clobbered.
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