Mordheim: City of the Damned

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Sepiche
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by Sepiche »

Well, my skaven warband finally got trounced... just as I was getting close to completing my second shipment back to the Murderlord. :P I had a close battle against a chaos warband and, despite taking out one of their heroes and 3 of their henchmen, their leader and a really tough hero managed to bring down my assassin and force my warband to rout. I lost my level 3 night runner in the rout and my leader got 3 nasty injuries... nasty enough that I probably need to replace him, but I don't have the money for that unless I sell some of my warpstone on the black market instead of saving it to send back to complete my next shipment.

It also looks like I got pretty lucky in my skaven game... I tried out chaos and imperial warbands for a bit and both those got torn up pretty fast. A ton of it is just luck and not taking missions where you might start at a serious disadvantage. It does feel like the game is a little too much on the hard side right now, the main problem being if your leader or heroes get taken down it's very expensive and/or time consuming to get them back in action, but part of it is also I think you have to be very cautious at times and know when to cut your losses.

Looking back on that chaos battle my skaven were in I think the takeaway was that when my hero and leader started taking some serious damage I should have cut my losses and withdrawn then instead of trying to squeek (pun intended) out a win.

Still having a blast trying to claw (no pun intended) my way along, but I'm looking forward to seeing a few balance patches to tweak things a bit.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Sepiche wrote:Well, my skaven warband finally got trounced... just as I was getting close to completing my second shipment back to the Murderlord. :P I had a close battle against a chaos warband and, despite taking out one of their heroes and 3 of their henchmen, their leader and a really tough hero managed to bring down my assassin and force my warband to rout. I lost my level 3 night runner in the rout and my leader got 3 nasty injuries...
I don't know what any of that means, but my urge to buy the game has increased.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by tgb »

I picked this up today, went through the (very good) tutorials, created my first warband, and got my ass kicked in my first mission. That said, this is one of the best turn-based combat models I've ever seen, dethroning ToEE.

If you've been putting off getting it, as I was, be aware of two things 1) when it comes out of EA the price is jumping to $45, and 2) that will be in the next couple of days.

One question - my leader got injured and will need 3 days to recover. Is there any downside to just hitting the "Next Day" button until he does (assuming I can afford the upkeep)?
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ColdSteel
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ColdSteel »

I'll confess that I want this game pretty bad and have been itching to get it now that it's near release. However, I read the below recent comment on RPS and now I'm somewhat wary of being burned. For those that have played it, any validity to these points?
jomon jim says:

It dragged me past the 2 hour steam window of regret, I’ll give it that. Two things popped up as warning signs even before that window closed. I hope someone can read this and make a more informed decision than I did about this here Mordheim.

1.) Inventory management. You can’t drop stuff, trade stuff, or place anything anywhere that isn’t an official container. And just hope it isn’t full. This means I killed a dude once just to put an item in his bag so that my other character could pick it up and use it. WHa?! And I had to wait several turns to get my other goons off the area because you can’t pick things up if other friendlies (or enemies) are standing too close. WHAA??!

2.) End Mission Grief. You won! Great, now what? Loot everything that you couldn’t before? Grab those trinkets to collect some bounties?? Grab that big cache of wyrdstone around the corner (the point of the game – at least lorewise)???
NO. Run. With cold fear in your veins, RUN AWAY! Everyone retreat!!!
[Ok, so you grab a small fraction of the loot, but you don’t grab all of it and you always miss the MacGuffins necessary for fulfilling the bonus objectives – which are frequently at your feet.]

It might not ruin your overall experience, and your warband might be able to recover from the pittance of loot brought back, but it sure is annoying, immersion-breaking nonsense.

I mean, wasn’t the point of combat to secure the location for looting? Yesss, so why order the sudden retreat after each and every victory?

I should name my next leader Pyrrhus.

There’s a risk/reward mechanic going on here (split up to loot or stay together to survive) but it’s so contrived. It should pass the common sense test. It’s as though your warband has something better to do at the end of every mission.

The inventory awkwardness makes the mission ending shenanigans that much uglier. More often than not you can’t pick up that MacGuffin because your henchman is standing a little too close to it. Meanwhile the enemy will probably rout very soon.

Suddenly a very polite drama ensues!

You see, you wouldn’t want to enter your buddies personal space, break his mercenary bubble. No, that would be rude. Let him wait for his turn to casually step aside. Then you can wait for yours. After all, his pack is so full he couldn’t possibly manage to fit another trinket …uhh, is that a finger? Oh, dear. And the poor dead guy had a full pack too – so let’s get someone else over here to pick up that… blood soaked finger. Oh, what, they routed? We won, already?
Well, we’d better just go home then, I guess. Leave that mess and all that treasure behind. They don’t pay us enough to pack all that out as it stand. Lousy benefits package too!

To quote John Walker from his Impressions: Dragon Fin Soup, which had a very similarly confounding mechanic, “There’s not a single person on Earth who wants a game to play like that.”
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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tgb
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by tgb »

His points are well taken, but so far I'm able to look past them.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

He makes those points sound scary, but I have worked with similar systems before and it was "ok". He's right in that no one is going to chose that sort of system for enjoyment, but I can also see ignoring these negatives if the rest of the game is good enough.

That said, I'm not spending 45 bucks on the game and especially not if I don't know whether I can tolerate that sort of fiddly loot system.

I'll wait for it to come out the other side, years from now, on sale.

The parts that aren't loot related certainly sound awesome.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ColdSteel »

GreenGoo wrote:That said, I'm not spending 45 bucks on the game and especially not if I don't know whether I can tolerate that sort of fiddly loot system.

I'll wait for it to come out the other side, years from now, on sale.

The parts that aren't loot related certainly sound awesome.
Yeah, I think I'm with you on all of that. I think I'd like to see what the release patch looks like and also what kind of support it gets after release. If they keep improving and tweaking and listening to the community, that's a good sign.

I don't know if I'll wait years to buy it like I did with Skyrim, I may want to see if it's on Steam's big holiday sale. If it is, I may pull the trigger based on what happens in the meantime. I've learned that patience is a virtue and can really pay off with games, if you can just discipline yourself to do that. Sometimes easier said than done.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Yes, I sometimes spend a little money but I have so many excellent games that it's hard to justify. I spent about 30 bucks on Mordor, and 20 on Rebel Galaxy. Mordor was easily worth the money (to me, even with my inherent scrooginess) and have no regrets over Rebel Galaxy, although I could just as easily have waited.

I will say that Mordheim has more than my baseline interest. Which is to say, not only am I interested in it, I'm quite (not "very", yet) interested in it. It sounds great and something that is up my alley.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by Sepiche »

jomon jim wrote: 1.) Inventory management. You can’t drop stuff, trade stuff, or place anything anywhere that isn’t an official container. And just hope it isn’t full. This means I killed a dude once just to put an item in his bag so that my other character could pick it up and use it. WHa?! And I had to wait several turns to get my other goons off the area because you can’t pick things up if other friendlies (or enemies) are standing too close. WHAA??!
What he doesn't mention is there's really no need for a lot of item swapping once you're in a mission... your characters should really be grabbing what they can quickly and then moving on. The basic idea is there are items randomly strewn around the map and it benefits you to loot as much as you can while fighting your enemy. The whole point though is you're constantly under pressure to win the fight itself, and any effort you put into looting is effort that's not going into winning the fight, but will pay off in the long run, even if you don't win the fight. I've had some great missions where I was outclassed by the enemy warband, but managed to skirmish and play cat and mouse long enough to load up my troops with warpstone and loot before withdrawing. In this case you don't get a share of the loot left on the battlefield, but you still get to keep anything you looted during the fight. IIRC you can also swap items directly between characters which makes a lot of this complaint moot.
jomon jim wrote: 2.) End Mission Grief. You won! Great, now what? Loot everything that you couldn’t before? Grab those trinkets to collect some bounties?? Grab that big cache of wyrdstone around the corner (the point of the game – at least lorewise)???
NO. Run. With cold fear in your veins, RUN AWAY! Everyone retreat!!!
[Ok, so you grab a small fraction of the loot, but you don’t grab all of it and you always miss the MacGuffins necessary for fulfilling the bonus objectives – which are frequently at your feet.]

It might not ruin your overall experience, and your warband might be able to recover from the pittance of loot brought back, but it sure is annoying, immersion-breaking nonsense.

I mean, wasn’t the point of combat to secure the location for looting? Yesss, so why order the sudden retreat after each and every victory?
Again, this is a game mechanic to encourage the occasional hard choice between risking units to loot items on the battlefield and fighting the enemy. If you automatically got all the loot after a battle there would be no reason to loot anything during the battle which would remove a fun source of tension. In the lore of the game this is explained by the fact that the city is dangerous and constantly changing, and your team has to work quickly before another warband or some other denizens of the city happen upon you. The game is balanced with this in mind... you really don't need to loot at all, but there can be substantial rewards if you do. If you do win the fight you do get a share of the items left on the map... just not all of them.
jomon jim wrote: You see, you wouldn’t want to enter your buddies personal space, break his mercenary bubble. No, that would be rude. Let him wait for his turn to casually step aside. Then you can wait for yours. After all, his pack is so full he couldn’t possibly manage to fit another trinket …uhh, is that a finger? Oh, dear. And the poor dead guy had a full pack too – so let’s get someone else over here to pick up that… blood soaked finger. Oh, what, they routed? We won, already?
Well, we’d better just go home then, I guess. Leave that mess and all that treasure behind. They don’t pay us enough to pack all that out as it stand. Lousy benefits package too!
Once again, the zones of control are a game mechanic to limit the number of units that can be in a small space at the same time. Most importantly this limits the number of units that can be engaged with each other at the same time as you have to be in contact with an enemies zone of control to engage them, and not in an allies ZOC. Sometimes the ZOC can screw you by limiting what actions your characters can take in a small area, but it's also one of the most important tactical concepts in the game.

TLDR; There's a kernel of truth to his complaints, but IMHO they mostly show a shallow understanding of the underlying game mechanics and balancing involved.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ColdSteel »

Sepiche wrote:*good stuff*
Thanks Sepiche. I definitely trust you on this kind of stuff and this really helps make up my mind. I certainly do crave this game. It has just about everything I like in a game + Warhammer. Hard to pass up indeed. I guess I have the rest of the day to decide if I want to get it at the 20% off early access price. Argh!
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by tgb »

I just read an alert from the developers - the official build tomorrow does not support any mid-mission saves you currently have. It still saves mid-mission, but the format has changed. Saves at the warband HQ or whatever it's called will be safe, but they are seriously urging that you resolve any battles you might be in the middle of.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ydejin »

tgb wrote:I just read an alert from the developers - the official build tomorrow does not support any mid-mission saves you currently have. It still saves mid-mission, but the format has changed. Saves at the warband HQ or whatever it's called will be safe, but they are seriously urging that you resolve any battles you might be in the middle of.
Thanks tgb. I've been wondering about that and in fact went on the Steam board yesterday looking to find out if I started up a new campaign if progress would be saved for the release version.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Sepiche, I can see that, and like I said I've played games where that sort of decision making is a factor, but overall it's a specific gameplay mechanic that is artificial. And that's fine, I'm all for "what's fun" first and realism second (or 3rd, or last) but without trying it I won't know if it's for me or not. Tgb says he doesn't see it as a factor and neither do you, and that's a good sign.

Games like the original Xcom, which allowed you to pick up and use weapons/grenades from the battle field and use them while also giving you everything at the end of the mission is a different approach. I can pick up stuff it it's useful, or I run out of ammo and find more, but everything gets scavenged at the end if I win.

I get that there is a lore reason why you can't just pick up everything leisurely afterward, but maybe they should have included some sort of overwhelming force that scares you off the battlefield. Sure it's contrived, but then guys like complainy guy won't be able to say things like "we had to run away for no reason rather than stay and collect our battle winnings".

The original Xcom had a weird bug/feature where if you unloaded a gun by pulling the cartridge, the cartridge would be full after the mission ended, even if there was only 1 bullet left in it during the battle. So you'd have people roaming the battlefield picking up guns, unloading them, then dropping them on the ground. In some ways this is sorta/kinda like Mordheim, in that you had to find the time during battle to pick up weapons and unload them, because once the battle was over the opportunity was lost. So deciding if it was safe enough to do inventory management or not was part of your tactical approach to missions.

Actually, when I think of it in those terms, it doesn't seem so bad (Mordheim, I mean).
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

ColdSteel wrote:
Sepiche wrote:*good stuff*
Thanks Sepiche. I definitely trust you on this kind of stuff and this really helps make up my mind.
Sepiche's thoughtful and reasoned posts on game mechanics are one of the reasons I always enjoy hearing his opinion on things, although his tolerance for micromanagement far surpasses and I need to keep that in mind at times.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by Sepiche »

GreenGoo wrote:although his tolerance for micromanagement far surpasses and I need to keep that in mind at times.
:oops: Guilty. :D

Micromanagement in service of a great game is no micromanagement at all. ;)

I think the bottom line for me is Gameplay > Lore/Realism and I can very easily overlook things that break immersion as long as they are there for the betterment of the game. Everyone is different of course and for others the immersion factor is more important, but I hate missing out on otherwise great games due to little issues like that.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

I've always said that fun is way more important than real. The problem happens when things are not real or fun.

Which is not to say that making tough decisions while in combat is not fun.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by tgb »

Damn, I was hoping they'd do something about the loading times.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

I watched some videos of early game play (from about the time it went to early release, so not recent) and I was surprised at the scale. My son asked which character do you get to play, and I said all of them. They are like pieces in chess and he was surprised because they looked like typical 3rd person shooter models.

Having spells fizzle might make sense in a board game, or at least be tolerable. I'm not sure how well that will play in a video game.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by Lorini »

GreenGoo wrote: Having spells fizzle might make sense in a board game, or at least be tolerable. I'm not sure how well that will play in a video game.
They do that in Chaos Reborn which yes, is a little different. I think I've said this before, but Chaos Reborn is apparently using Blizzard's probability calculator. :)
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by tgb »

Last night I played a map full of narrow passages and 3-story tall buildings, and the ordeal of figuring out where I wanted to go and how to get there sucked all the enjoyment out of it. The overhead map was no help since it doesn't show elevations. I probably wasted 3 turns sending one of my units up and down stairs trying to find a piece of Wyrdstone.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ColdSteel »

This game is quite addictive. I'd picked it up on a 50% off sale quite a while ago and finally got around to trying it out. I'd been kind of reluctant to start because I knew there would be a considerable learning curve involved and I'd heard the early game can be quite brutal. Well, both of those things are true but if you stick with it, it's really a rewarding, fun game.

I've got about 40 hours in it now. I started a mercenary warband, got them to level 3 and was having a ton of trouble with Sisters warbands. So, I said 'hmmm' and created my own Sisters warband. Good decision. My Sisters band just hit level 5 and my leader (Agatha) is level 6. I've got enough levels now where I'm starting to be able to actually make good money and train my troops. I've got some builds on my heroes that are kicking butt, even enemy Sister warband butt. My novices are dodge tanks and they're very effective at locking down enemy units. It's been hard to get good equipment though. I've not found much that's great so far. I did find a blue shield of steel and a blue mace of perseverance this evening though so maybe things will pick up on that front now that my warband is level 5.

So, a thumbs up on this game from me. It's a lot of fun. It's a shame it hasn't done better with sales but I can completely understand why. The UI is a bit clunky until you get used to it and the looting mechanic could certainly use some improvement. Nothing like killing the enemy carrying an item to complete the optional mission objective and then having the whole enemy warband rout and end the mission before you can even pick it up. I hope they continue to make more improvements to the game because they have made a lot of them. Loading times are no issue at all anymore, for example, and I've found the strategic map pretty easy to use.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by MonkeyFinger »

So how "feature complete" is it nowadays? I bit on EA for it some time ago but then got tired of the updates where features dribbled in and decided to uninstall until it was closer to release. Haven't checked in on it for some time now.
-mf
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ColdSteel »

MonkeyFinger wrote:So how "feature complete" is it nowadays?
I don't know what it was like before, but it seems complete to me. I didn't play during EA though so maybe someone that did has a better perspective on that. I'm not sure if anyone here other than me is playing it at the moment.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by MonkeyFinger »

Just went and checked the store page and it says that it came out of EA with the first "full release" in mid-November of last year. Guess I need to pull it down again and see what see looks like. 8-)
-mf
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ColdSteel »

My warband is still level 5 but I've gotten my leader up to level 7 now. She's had a few minor injuries along the way but I've been careful with her and she's not been disfigured like my two veteran sisters have. Both of those have the 'Amok' trait from being hit in the head too hard and now they can't disengage or flee and will fight to the death instead. They've also both lost some stats in strength and agility due to wounds. Nothing bad enough to make me fire them yet although I do have one novice that's on the very edge of remaining useful. But, at least none of my troops have lost any extremities yet.

I finally am able to recruit the 'impressive' units for my warband but I've been reluctant to do so. The enemy warband always includes the equivalent of the troops in your warband and scales to match. So, if I trot out my level 0 maiden impressive, my band will be going up against a level 5 or so impressive on the other side. That can get really ugly in a hurry. So I decided to use her in the Act 1 first campaign mission instead as a first outing. That mission has a much stronger maiden impressive thrown in (Bertha) as a character you control and none of the campaign missions scale so I figured it would be free XP for her. I was hoping she'd make a whole level and she didn't but she did get most of one. Next I'm going to try a normal mission with only 4 or 5 in my band and have 2 or 3 of them level 0 so the enemy scaling is theoretically not as severe. Let's see if she can survive and make level 1. I guess I could just wait and hire a level 5 or so maiden later on in the game but where's the fun it that? Plus, hiring one with levels like that would be hideously expensive.

I'm trying to think what other game this is like and I can't really come up with anything. The tactical combat and environments are fantastic. The warband management is both challenging and fun. If this hadn't been developed by such a small team (precluding some needed improvements), and GW wasn't such a bunch of gits (and had allowed modding), this would be being played by a lot of people, I think.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by hentzau »

When I used to play the tabletop version of Mordheim, my Sisters warband never won a single game we played. Either I was really bad, or they've improved them for the computer game.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by Frost »

I'm waiting for this to hit the $10 mark, as I haven't been in a rush to play it.

Recently picked up Warmachine Tactics in a bundle but still have yet to fire that up, either.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ColdSteel »

The game is on the Steam daily deal right now. 50% off ($19.99) until tomorrow. Also a new patch and new DLC out today (new hired swords).

I'm still playing this. I have my Sisters warband to level 7 now and have my leader and one of my hero units maxed out at level 10. My impressive maiden unit is up to level 7 now and she's a real killer. She chews through pretty much everything. So far I've only had one unit die in battle (a level 5 novice) and don't have anyone with missing arms, legs or eyes. I'm starting to earn some decent cash and items per mission now so things are looking up overall. I'm having a lot of fun with it. Steam says I have 58 hours on it but my internet was out for a whole weekend and I played it a lot in off-line mode. It's probably more like 70 hours, really.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Frost wrote:I'm waiting for this to hit the $10 mark, as I haven't been in a rush to play it.

Recently picked up Warmachine Tactics in a bundle but still have yet to fire that up, either.
I tend to wait until things are cheap too, but if I hit a dry spell and nothing catches my fancy, I'll shell out bucks for something good. This seems to be something good, but no dry spell, yet.

I wish I had caught the Warmachine tactics bundle offer. That's on my wishlist and hasn't moved down much in price that I've seen.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by NickAragua »

Picked this up on the steam sale. I played through the tutorials, which was good because if I had gone into the campaign without any practice, I would have gotten clobbered, as this is one of those "dense statistic block" games.

My first outing with my band of Skaven, we got creamed by a bunch of zombies and a pair of humans (probably an "undead" warband). One of the jerkwads even stole the pants off my KO'd ratman. We started out scattered on opposite ends of the map, and everything was going fine up until two of my rat guys got ambushed by the two zombies and a ghoul. With three action points and each attack costing two, we weren't going to be winning. I made the mistake of sticking around and trying to have my leader and hero try to rescue the scrubs, which turned into my leader getting KO'd and winding up losing an eye and getting an "old injury". After he got KO'd we mercifully failed our rout test and that was that.

To add insult to injury, the Skaven warband guys apparently have a union because I couldn't just ditch the injured guys, I had to first pay for treatment and wages. The other option being let the guy bleed to death, but meanwhile he eats up a slot in my warband.

Second outing went a little better. We started out together, so I had my guys advance until they made contact with the enemy warband (mercenaries), then take a couple of pot shots with shuriken and fall back to a good ambush point. They came over in force, but not concentrated enough, so I was able to overwhelm the individual guys as they came up over the various ledges. Even still, one of my guys got a "flesh wound" so he's still in the infirmary.

Well worth the $13.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by NickAragua »

Wow, that was some bullshit. Five attacks in a row at 70% odds, all miss.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Boughten.

Will be playing soon.

Anyone have an opinion on controller versus keyboard and mouse?
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by ColdSteel »

GreenGoo wrote:Anyone have an opinion on controller versus keyboard and mouse?
It's turn based and the K/M works well so I don't see any reason to use a controller unless you just really like them and want to use one.
"This game is best played with a warm cup of Folger's coffee in your hands, so you can actually smell the oppression while you relive the greatest period of all time. The period when white people discovered the world, and decided they didn't like it." - EUIV Steam user review
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by NickAragua »

Yeah, keyboard and mouse works just fine for me. I have no idea why you'd use a controller at all. The warband management screen has so many dense menus, if I had to use a controller I'd throw the damn thing through the wall.

After several fairly crushing defeats in a row due to unbelievably crappy luck and poor tactics on my part, my Skaven warband a) had a bunch of people injured beyond what I consider recoverable and b) was out of money. So, I click 'disband warband' only to find out that that button just fires everyone, rather than ending the "campaign". Still, I was determined to get rid of this... uh... stain upon uh... Skaven... uh... pride... so I found the option within the 'Load Warband' menu to delete the warband. I don't think I've ever been so satisfied to get rid of a persistent squad that I've run in any game.

The next squad is called something along the lines of "Useless Twats", and so far they haven't failed too badly. I keep waiting though. I'm still having trouble figuring out what skills are good for what type of guy. Apparently, the number of available action and strategy points gets higher as a character levels up. Although I have trouble believing any of these pricks are going to survive to get to level ten given their tendency to whiff multiple times in a row on 80% odds attacks.

Some tips I've worked out:
- Concentrate your force, don't spread out. Your guys suck to begin with (as do the opponents, in reality), the missions scale to your warband's strength and you're almost never going to have have a superior force, so your only real chance to win a map is to put the bad guys down quick and force morale checks. The AI tends to spread out, which means that you have time to engage them piecemeal and wipe them out. This does have the downside that you don't get as much wyrdstone and loot off the map, but I find it's better to not die.
- The one exception is that I've found it pretty effective to run a guy up to the enemy cart and steal their idol (and their other stuff while you're at it) to drop their morale (and thus force them to make a retreat roll)
- Don't be shy about disengaging/retreating. If your little dude is outnumbered and outclassed, disengage and sprint back to your main force. Unfortunately, there is no option to beat a retreat from a battle entirely without everyone having a chance at a permanent injury and loss of equipment. So, you're going to have to stick it out.
- Don't bother with shields on your scrubs until you can level them up. I've got two scrubs with halberds and while they're not very good, they hurt when they hit. A scrub with a weapon and shield has a lower dodge chance, lower initiative so they act later in the round and the benefits are very minor (small amount of damage reduction and increase in parry chance - which is no good until you can level them up).
- You don't really need to use 'perception'. It took me some learning the hard way, but I think I've figured out what most of the traps look like so it's pretty easy to avoid them.
Spoiler:
Light brown wooden board with magic symbols on it, or any sort of fleshy patches with eyeballs sticking out. Can be found both on the floor and on walls.
- Be somewhat wary of picking up wyrdstone, as it generally tends to zap you with "unwanted side effects" or straight up damage. Some guys have pretty good resistance against it, try to use those. Of course, some guys derive a benefit from it...

I'll see if I can post some writeups about my squad or some of the scavenging trips they've gone on.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Played the tutorial using an xbox controller. Works like a charm. Given the slow pace and lengthy games, it's easier to use a controller instead of aggravating my repetitive stress pain.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Opinions on the DLC?

The game seems like it will be a lot of fun and the metagame of managing your warband gives purpose to your tactical fights. I should probably buy the items on sale at least and wait for the undead to get cheaper, but I'm interested in peoples' opinions.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by Sepiche »

GreenGoo wrote:Opinions on the DLC?

The game seems like it will be a lot of fun and the metagame of managing your warband gives purpose to your tactical fights. I should probably buy the items on sale at least and wait for the undead to get cheaper, but I'm interested in peoples' opinions.
They add more variety to the battles, even if you don't play the new factions, so they're good in my book.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by NickAragua »

The undead and witch hunters show up as opponents even if you don't have the DLC.

I was considering buying them, but the chances of me trying to plow through the game again as a different warband in any close time frame are pretty close to nil, and I still have the three other base game warbands.

Also considering buying the extra hero DLCs, but you don't really get more than three hero slots from what I understand, which means I'd have to ditch one of the existing hero classes.

Had an amusing run against an Undead warband yesterday. A "both sides deploy near their cart" mission with the "steal enemy idol" bonus objective. I have my night runner run up to the third floor of a ruined building with *really* good line of sight, and he immediately spots a bunch of undead and starts pelting them with shuriken. Too bad it took me three or four turns to figure out that a lot of the undead are immune to poison in addition to morale effects. The AI actually did a reasonable job staying together, but I was able to take out their heavy hitters early on with some lucky charges (warp guard scrub + halberd = win), so all they had left were a bunch of zombies and a thrall with a dagger. I kept most of my guys alive by cycling wounded guys out of fights and fresh ones in to keep the bad guys busy. Except for the one Black Skaven who was so wounded that, when he failed a "climb" roll he actually KOd himself. After beating up the zombies, I realized that one of the AI guys was stuck next to his cart due to some kind of path finding bug, which gave me about ten extra rounds to run around the map and haul an unbelievable amount of loot back to the cart. Unfortunately he figured it out eventually and came running towards one of my guys doing scavenging, getting in all of one round of attacks before getting mauled.

So yeah, that's another advantage that the player should exploit over the AI, the uh, substandard pathfinding. Especially on the big guys, who love getting stuck in doorways and on staircases and then you can just pelt them to death with the pretty weak ranged weapons.

Sepiche, any thoughts on the "Lad's Got Talent" skill? It promotes a henchman to a hero (not great, hero slots are very limited in number) and makes him much better overall, but from what I can tell, the stats come out to roughly the same as they would on a regular hero. So why would I bother promoting one of the scrubs with their not-so-good starting skill to hero?
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Yeah, I doubt I will play through the game with each of the warbands, but it's nice to have options. The game is a great deal of fun so far and I'm more tempted by the DLC than I otherwise would be.

Been most successful with Skaven so far. I hate ratmen on general principles, but these highly mobile dudes have started to win me over.
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Re: Mordheim: City of the Damned

Post by GreenGoo »

Holy crap this is an insanely unforgiving game. And far too often the entire battle can hinge on a single die roll. Phew.

Carnage.
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