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X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Blackhawk » Wed May 08, 2019 8:01 pm

Oh, and I'm guessing that the Ronar guides I watched were on the pre-defined maps, because he was clearly pointing out "this pod appears here, the other is either here or here and patrols this direction." So it was a false assumption on my part, but not without a reason.
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Smoove_B » Wed May 08, 2019 8:03 pm

I had the same feeling with the Divinity Original Sin games. I never felt like I was playing an RPG. Instead, I felt like I was playing a game that wanted me to min/max character traits and puzzle out how to get through various enemies. I totally get that people enjoy that type of game play - there are board games (I've learned) that are all about making optimal choices. I'm just not into that type of experience.

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Fardaza » Wed May 08, 2019 8:11 pm

Kraken wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 11:22 pm
Blackhawk wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:51 pm
I'm using a mod that extends timers somewhat, but doesn't disable them.
That was enough for me (extending missions by 4 turns, except for the story ones). Turn limits are part of the core game design, so losing them entirely feels too much like cheating. Tweaking them a little? Fair game! :horse:
This is exactly what I did too. Extend missions by 4 turns. This gives you time to breathe and reload when otherwise you feel pressed to move forward, thus revealing a new pod.

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Blackhawk » Wed May 08, 2019 8:12 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:03 pm
there are board games (I've learned) that are all about making optimal choices. I'm just not into that type of experience.
*cough* Crossfire *cough*
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Fardaza » Wed May 08, 2019 8:37 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:00 pm
I'm realizing a few things:


2. I loved EU/EW, and I played the hell out of it, multiple times through. For some reason, though, I just can't wrap my head around what this game wants me to do. This is likely largely becasue of #1. It looks so much like that kind of game that my brain won't agree to treat it as if it isn't.


It just throws me that XCOM EU/EW was such a great match for what I like in a game, and this one is, apparently, such a bad match, while looking like the same game on the surface. I really, really loved EU/EW, and I really want to like this as much. I will play some more, but I'm beginning to fear that I'm wasting peoples' time. If so, I apologize.
This is also how I feel. I loved EU/EW beyond anything I've ever played. I especially loved my MECs! (What? No MECs in XCOM2? I have to buy a DLC to get a sort of MEC? What's that all about?) It did get to where it was too easy, even on higher difficulties though. XCOM2 was as you've mentioned, a huge intentional increase of difficulty. Things like getting one-shotted by aliens when my guys needed 2 shots to kill didn't improve the "like" factor of the game for me.

I do love XCOM2, just not as much as EU/EW. I really can't stand the Lost. And being forced to move forward when I'm not ready to because of a timer feels too gamey. I've not tried the supreme alien rulers DLC because I don't need more difficulty. As GreenGoo mentioned, I'm one of those that thinks XCOM2 is too hard. Because of that, I just don't like it as much.

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by GreenGoo » Wed May 08, 2019 9:09 pm

Shrug. It's not significantly different from Xcom, except in degree. You loved Xcom, yet it is fundamentally the same gameplay.

You have stated that foreknowledge is a necessity, but as Coop pointed out, the missions are randomised (although not procedural).

If you don't like it you don't like it. You have good company as smoove is there with you.

For the record I loved my MECs too. The hero classes and the robot from the DLC helped ease the loss.

The lost are free experience. I love them. 1 sniper with pistoleer can kill lost indefinitely.

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by coopasonic » Thu May 09, 2019 9:36 am

Started a game on Veteran Ironman non-WOTC just to remember how it works. It's pretty familiar. I missed all the interface speed-up mods, so I've got those installed now and imported the OO characters as well and created a single character pool with everyone. I need to upload that somewhere. This weekend I might restart and record some missions.

Last night my son walked into the office and said "XCOM again!?"

Yeah buddy, XCOM again.
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu May 09, 2019 11:53 am

How about that trailer, huh?
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by coopasonic » Thu May 09, 2019 12:03 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:53 am
How about that trailer, huh?
Looking forward to putting another 400 hours into it based on the trailer alone!

Also, wtf is xcom3!?
-Coop

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu May 09, 2019 12:06 pm

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by coopasonic » Sat May 11, 2019 10:16 am

So I recorded the first three missions of a new game on Veteran Ironman and I realized two things.
1) I am not very good at commentary. Describing what I am doing and why feels awkward. You don't have to worry about that though because the commentary didn't actually get recorded. I need to work that out.
2) I play very sloppy on Veteran. I think it is because I don't have an respect for the difficulty, but I can't convince my brain to be more tactical because I know I won't be punished for it, particularly in the early game.

In summary, the video will be of little value, but if you want to check it out anyway, it will be here when it is done processing:


It is recorded in 1440p, but it can take some time for youtube to finish processing for higher resolutions, so be patient.
-Coop

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by TheMix » Sat May 11, 2019 1:06 pm

You definitely play a lot looser than I do. :D

So how much were you swearing when that car blew up and almost took out your soldier? I've had that happen. Really annoying. Of course, I don't play Ironman, so I just reload.

Not sure if it works well when you have timers, but I used extraction zones to milk kills in my last game of Long War. I'd get all my guys set up and on overwatch, then wait for them to drop in. That would give me one turn to wipe them out. I could usually (if they didn't drop in too far away) get 2-3 batches of kills before they'd drop in guys that were too tough to take out in one turn. Then I'd extract. Before they even got to go. Definitely helped getting promotions.
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by GreenGoo » Sat May 11, 2019 1:33 pm

You can definitely farm reinforcement drops at the end of a mission, but usually only 1 or 2 groups due to the timer running out. The timers are perfectly balanced for me. Sometimes I am in deep trouble and have to hurry more than I'd like, sometimes the mission has gone smoothly and I have 2-4 extra turns left on the timer, but mostly I get everyone out with 1 turn left.

I've farmed the ship defense mission a few times. Unlimited reinforcements can result in a lot of kills if conditions are right.

I haven't watched Coop's video but I will. Every time I play I have to relearn not to take cover behind a vehicle. The little icon shows full cover and full cover is hard to resist, until it blows up and takes out 1/2 your squad.

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by coopasonic » Sat May 11, 2019 2:10 pm

TheMix wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 1:06 pm
You definitely play a lot looser than I do. :D
Yeah, the lower difficulties are so much less demanding, I just can't be too serious about it.
TheMix wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 1:06 pm
Not sure if it works well when you have timers, but I used extraction zones to milk kills in my last game of Long War. I'd get all my guys set up and on overwatch, then wait for them to drop in. That would give me one turn to wipe them out. I could usually (if they didn't drop in too far away) get 2-3 batches of kills before they'd drop in guys that were too tough to take out in one turn. Then I'd extract. Before they even got to go. Definitely helped getting promotions.
I've never farmed experience. The game gives you plenty as it is, especially pre-WOTC when you can run the same squad the whole game.
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by TheMix » Sat May 11, 2019 3:04 pm

I should mention that I was playing without timers (except in a few cases where they can't be removed).
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Fardaza » Sun May 12, 2019 12:26 pm

Dang it! I've been happily killing mutants, raiders, and scavvers in Fallout 4 for a month or so now. This thread is making me want to start in on the aliens again.

"Yeah Buddy. XCOM again!"

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by coopasonic » Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 am

coopasonic wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 10:16 am
In summary, the video will be of little value, but if you want to check it out anyway, it will be here when it is done processing:


It is recorded in 1440p, but it can take some time for youtube to finish processing for higher resolutions, so be patient.
Because I know you guys loved this so much, I kept recording despite the inability to add commentary.

This is a link to the playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... zpNnZTBk17
-Coop

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Brian » Mon May 13, 2019 2:31 pm

Fardaza wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 12:26 pm
This thread is making me want to start in on the aliens again.

"Yeah Buddy. XCOM again!"
It's too late for me. Downloaded and installed yesterday.

Save yourself while you can!
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by coopasonic » Sun May 19, 2019 9:27 am

Sloppy play can cost you... evidence here. Video has two missions, the link is set at the start of the second mission where the price must be paid.
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by coopasonic » Sun May 19, 2019 5:54 pm

...and finished. Ironman Veteran without WOTC, 2 deaths, no cheaty reloads.

Can you believe, in the 9 or 10 times (guessing, no idea any more) I have run that final campaign, I never knew you could have multiple avatars alive at once. I've never had one live 3 turns before. This time one spawned way in the back and stayed in the back. I had a hard time getting to him. I was surprised to see another pop while he was still out there.

The youtube playlist I linked earlier has the whole thing start to finish.
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Paingod » Mon May 20, 2019 6:45 am

coopasonic wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:54 pm
...and finished. Ironman Veteran without WOTC, 2 deaths, no cheaty reloads.
Congrats!

For as much as I've played this game, Ironman is one thing that consistently eludes me. I think I get the mechanics well enough to do it - but I play more to relax and don't think I could if I knew I might lose entirely.
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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by coopasonic » Mon May 20, 2019 11:25 am

A few thoughts to sum up the playthrough. This was my first time playing without WOTC since the expansion was released. I did very much miss some of the additions of the expansion (Reaper please!), but it wasn't as hard to go back as I suspected.

Before the replay, the things I was spouting were high cover, flanking and guaranteed damage. After the replay I will note that I almost never used high cover because it generally isn't very convenient. This is fine on Veteran difficulty because if you play it well enough, you are rarely getting shot at. Flanking is still critical, specifically in order to get not quite guaranteed but highly likely damage. Sometimes flanking is hard to pull off so you use explosives to destroy cover (plus bonus guaranteed damage and armor removal). Remember when you blow the enemies' cover you are also blowing up cover you would probably like to use as you advance. Consider that.

I was thinking about the predictability of enemy locations. Exact locations are predictable in the more fixed story missions like the blacksite and the missions you unlock through the shadow chamber research. Otherwise, you can generally expect enemy groups to be spaced out between 1 and 2 moves apart between you and the objective.

Get War of the Chosen. The loss of a good soldier is much less impactful because you are forced to train up multiple squads of soldiers. Also, there are so many cool things that change things up from one game to the next. It really enhances the replayability of the game.

Always have a backup plan. You need to be ready for things to go sideways. Save that last grenade until you really need it. Better to reload now than to be running on empty when you really need that one last shot. On the other hand, if using run and gun gets you the kill now, it is better than that 50% shot and having it available next turn.

Timers were never, ever a serious consideration the whole game. Part of that is because the freaking windows game bar recording overlay site right on top of the countdown timer and 9,8 and 6 are basically all the same when the middle of the number is covered. Ignoring that, the timers in the game are very generous. They should only be a problem if you are overwatch crawling the entire map. The timers exist specifically to punish that. If you play that way the game is completely trivial.

If anyone actually watched my gameplay, you should be able to see that. I am almost ashamed at how reckless my gameplay was. The game only punished me for it once in 35-40 missions. I can't be bothered with most of the tools they provide you (scanner, mimic, smoke). Before going into the final mission run I went to the Black Market and bought a few superior weapon mods to gear up for the finish... then I never bothered to equip anything of them. I don't think I ended up with any superior weapon mods installed. I only went through and installed mods on all guns once in the mid-game. I never installed a single PCS at all.

I guess I might sound pretty elitist at this point. Yes, I have played the game for over 500 hours at this point and obviously that experience helps and if I could share that, I would. It bothers me when people don't love the game. I know Blackhawk and I game in different ways btu I want him to succeed and enjoy the game.

Now I am going to jump from elitist right to condescending. If Blackhawk wants to record some gameplay, maybe we can actually help point out where things are going wrong. I suggest this because I really don't understand how the situations he is describing are happening. Maybe there is something missing in the description that is key to the problem.

Wow, that was longer than I expected. :oops:
-Coop

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Re: X-Com 2 confirmed...trailer

Post by Paingod » Mon May 20, 2019 11:54 am

I don't consider it elitist to invest a lot of time into a system and get really good with it. At some point the move & counter become intuitive.
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