Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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Paingod
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Paingod »

Well, there we go.

Highly Adaptive (+20% Habitable), Sedentary (-50% Migration, +33% Cost), Repugnant (-1% Other Species Happiness) Fungal Techno-Hippies (Fanatic Materialist, Peaceful) with +5 Core Systems is online and rolling. It's 2249 and I've I claimed my 10th Core system and am in the process of bolstering them all up; very few problem tiles left on any planet. Every planet has one Robot worker in the mines, and I'm planning to roll out more as I can - though I'm not sure where I'm going to put the people. I'm curious to see how this differs later on (having more direct resources, not just Sectors). The only issue I'm having right now is that my territory looks like a giant erect penis with testicles. So far no one in the galaxy has commented on that, but they may simply fear the sheer size of it. It horrifies my nearest neighbor, who has a -140 opinion of me for rubbing my border against him.

The flip side is that I've had a lot of citizens wanting to move, which I've never seen before. It's like they see all these border worlds and think "Man, I want to live there!" despite having traits to the contrary. I'm wondering, too, why I bothered with Highly Adaptive, since I set the Habitable Planets to 150% (I got tired of vast swaths of space being uninhabitable) and was able to find 10 systems in relative close proximity to each other that I could occupy that were all +80% and +60% Habitable without any tech upgrades. As those upgrades roll in, being Adaptive becomes pointless. I'd rather have Technological traits at this point - my research pool is like 35 Physics / 60 Society / 35 Engineering. Society techs are rolling out fast and furious, but I could be doing that faster. Minerals are up to +110 per month, though Energy is only +12 per month. I'm okay with that since ships only cost Minerals an I have enough saved to pull a extra fleet out of thin air if mine gets nuked.

I've also had a chance now to explore more in the Governing screens - shuffling populations, setting policies, using Edicts - and these things are cool, but very much to be used with caution as you can't change policies more than once every 10 years, with Edicts and Relocations costing a lot in terms of Influence. With something like 13 planets (in 10 systems), I had a lot of opportunity to move citizens around, but not enough Influence to keep up with the desire to. I still largely ignore Diplomacy as other races will either express Hatred, Ambivalence, or Love for me without my interference - and trying to mitigate hatred is a losing proposition; it's easier to just keep yourself equal in a Military sense.

So, all in all, I think I'm going to start over again. What would I do differently? 1) Keep 150% Habitable Planets and drop Highly Adaptive (4 points) for Intelligent (2 Points), Engineers (1 Point), and Enduring (1 Point). I might go Weak (-1 Point) and Keep the peaceful and fanatic materialst aspects, as well as the +5 Core systems Government. That should give me a technologically profound race with lots of resources rolling in before I have to start working on Sectors, and when I get to warmongering, the penalty to happiness is just an extra -5%, which I can manage.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by NickAragua »

Paingod wrote:The only issue I'm having right now is that my territory looks like a giant erect penis with testicles. So far no one in the galaxy has commented on that, but they may simply fear the sheer size of it. It horrifies my nearest neighbor, who has a -140 opinion of me for rubbing my border against him.
:lol:

I actually find that the starting species traits don't have much relevance over the long run (unless you're planning on running a one-species empire). Especially the +habitability stuff. Maybe longevity is useful though. Last time I played, I had migration treaties, so my planets got filled up quickly with aliens from (presumably) less prosperous players. This also meant that I could colonize a wider variety of planets, because instead of just having to rely on planets that my main species likes, I could grab some non-main species and stick them on a colony ship instead.

You might not think energy is relevant, but wait until you have a huge fleet and suddenly need to move it out of orbit and actually have it do stuff. Hoo boy. I agree about building robot populations to mine me some minerals and free my citizens for less menial duties (like shoveling pig crap or whatever they do at those farm domes).

Re: diplomacy, the common wisdom on the forums is that you want to quickly subjugate your nearest neighbors so that they don't hinder your expansion. There is, nowadays, the option of a federation victory, so if you can convince a couple of aliens to be your best buddies, it's a reasonable option. The trick to raising alien opinion of you is to have active treaties. So, non-aggression pacts, sensor links, research agreements, etc. To start with, "Guarantee Independence" brings up their trust of you, which, in turn, brings up their "like" meter. You're not going to be able to overcome "xenophobic fanatic" modifier or wildly different ethics, but it'll help push you over the edge.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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My first couple of games went far enough to have diverse populations, but subsequent games have been all about a singular race (not being elitist, but I didn't want to deal with mingled needs).

I tend to start the war of subjugation at 2265 or so, when my first fleet is around 2K in strength. I've always favored spending time in 4X games initially just creating a stable, technologically superior base and then working off that. Any time I try to engage in combat before I feel ready tends to lead to disaster and waste. The process I've built so far generally ties me for second or third place against the races I meet when we compare military and technology strength.

I typically build out a single strong fleet, but have been wondering if I should try something different. Has anyone tinkered with using multiple, purpose-built fleets in tactical waves? For example, putting a bunch of heavily shielded Auto-Cannon Gunship & Point-Defense Destroyers in one fleet, and following that fleet with a set of Torpedo Corvettes and fleet of Laser Gunships? Then you can lead into a fight with PD up front (instead of the back), and chase that with lasers for high Tracking power (Tracking overcomes Evasion, yes?), and Torpedoes for heavy backup...? Or does it work out to about the same as "just screw it and throw it all into one lump" at the end of the day?
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by NickAragua »

Once fleets engage with the enemy, you have no control over the order of battle. The consensus on the forums (and one that I agree with) is that you're better off just having one giant balanced fleet ball. Although, in my experience, once you defeat the main enemy forces, it's better to split your fleet into multiple smaller ones so you can crush the loose enemy stations and outposts faster.

The other current wisdom is that missile type weapons are useless - they take a long time to get to the enemy, don't re-target if you overkill, and can be shot down by a relatively small amount of point defense. This is borne out in my personal experience, as I was able to take down a missile fleet with about 2x higher firepower rating using a laser fleet. Also, static defenses are considered pretty useless as well, especially since I don't think they auto-upgrade. You still want to build spaceports though to get more ship cap.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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I see. Maybe I should drop the torpedo ships, then, but keep the lasers and gunners. I've read that Autocannons are "the thing" later on, but the tracking on lasers is higher, meaning they should hit Corvettes more reliably.

My wondering was born out of watching my fleet run at an enemy, and as the Corvettes pulled ahead, they were mowed down by missiles. Once the Destroyers caught up, the missiles stopped being a problem. I mostly just want the Point Defense to get a chance to do it's job! If I could establish some kind of formation or layer and restrict movement, it'd solve my combat issues.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by NickAragua »

I forget, is there an option to put point defence on the corvettes? Might not be on any of the default hull sections.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Paingod »

I haven't found it. So far I've gotten Guns/Missiles/Torpedoes/Lasers on Corvettes. PD starts on Destroyers (The "Picket" segment). Hangars start on Cruisers. It only becomes an issue against missile-heavy AI, which I seem to find easily enough.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by tgb »

I'm going to start a separate thread because it deserves it, but Star Trek:New Horizons is the best Trek game I've played in years, and it's only in Aplha.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Paingod »

I'll have to try that one out.

My current game with interstellar peaceful, materialistic Geckos is going extremely well. So well, in fact, that I doubt I'll start over. I'm pretty much tied for power with the next biggest guy, though he somehow has like 500 population to my 250. My Tech is superior to everyone but him as well. I've steamrolled over the nearest competition and am ripping chunks out of their empire. Completely against my ethos, though, so my people live in a constant state of dismay at my policies. My military might is like a 20K fleet power if put together, but I run three separate fleets that work together and then split up once the "bulk" of an enemy has been dealt with.

Some things I like about the way the game evolves...
  • I really like the +5 Core Systems government, but it totally works against my complete disregard for diplomacy in these games. I was able to create nicely custom worlds - smaller ones producing Energy in mountains, moderate ones making Minerals, and a few of the largest became Research centers with dedicated Science Vessels to assist in production. This seems to be the right way to go - you might lose a few minerals and energy each turn, but you gain a lot in terms of research. 110 years into my campaign, I'm generating over 225 of each research type per month.
  • Once you get your initial territory settled and adjusted, sectors are awesome bonuses. I had read complaints about them going broke, but mine seem to be doing an 'OK' job of keeping themselves running on Balanced. If I throw funds at them, it speeds up their progress. I like that I can tinker with Stations and military units, but wish I could meddle with planet variables still. I suppose that's the trade-off I made.
  • I like the Vassalization of lesser species. My nearest, weakest neighbor liked me a lot and one day I was just like "Hey bud, just give up and join me" and he responded with "Ok, I suppose" and that was it. Later on I was able to just fold him into my empire peacefully. No fuss, no fights. I should try and do this more often.
  • Another neighbor that I had a positive but neutral relationship with was simply in my way, so I insulted him, made irrational demands, and then declared war to take away the bulk of his systems. His response? "But .... but why?" as if in complete shock.
Things I don't care for...
  • You're limited in your objectives when you go to war. I don't pick fights to chip away at my enemies. I pick fights to completely annihilate and overwhelm them. That I can only capture 3 planets from any given enemy every 10 years is really annoying. It means I have to flip once I win and pick fights with two other people so I can cycle through them. I'd much rather just absorb one entire large empire than rip apart three at once, piece by piece.
  • The war score mechanic seems too arbitrary. I set out to capture three planets. I do. Then I also have to spend time chasing down the dregs of your army and smashing them just to secure a high enough score to "Seal the Deal" and actually capture the planets? Blech,
  • By the time I got "Automated Sector Research", there was absolutely no point. This should be an early-game Tech, not a late-game one. This only opened up about 20 years after I stopped even bothering to scan for anomalies and had my Science Vessels settled over my research planets. Not only should it be an early game tech, it should also be available on Corvettes or a Scout-class ship. I'd produce those suckers in droves if I could just click a button and send them exploring for me.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by NickAragua »

I decided to start up another game of this, playing my science lizards, and I'm pretty sure I'm about to bounce off again as I hit the mid game. Now that the initial expansion and exploration phase is just about over, the mid-game diplomacy and war stuff are still kind of boring. There are a couple of AI empires that hate my guts but I'm in a federation so they don't actually want to declare war on me. Maybe I should have turned the "AI Aggressiveness" up a notch. I know Paradox are working on a 1.5 update and another end-game DLC, but really, it's the mid-game that needs work. Still waiting for an option to peacefully poach members out of a federation.

I finally saw a "+1 core systems" tech came up and grabbed it right away. Don't care that it'll take five game years to crank through the research. Usually, the only way I'll pass a system off to a sector is if I've built all the planets up completely and the only thing left to do is incremental upgrades on buildings.

One trick that people (including myself) have been using is to bring food production down to a minimum on a planet once you hit max population - you don't really need the pop growth bonus anymore so you can use some of that pop to produce other things. Just, uh, don't take it to negative food production. That's bad.

Also got a pretty cool planet bonus where I can recruit "Titanic Beast" armies. They're literally about 10x better than standard armies. Only a limited amount of them, but, with orbital superiority, these guys can probably take on any planetary garrison scrubs the AI puts up.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Max Peck »

NickAragua wrote:Also got a pretty cool planet bonus where I can recruit "Titanic Beast" armies.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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I wonder what it says about a game when, half the time, I'm playing it for the music more than the gameplay.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Sepiche »

Looks like Utopia is due out April 6th.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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So who else is jumping on this today?
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Freyland »

I just received a notification from the Steam Client, "Stellaris Utopia Release Stream!"

The wording made me chuckle.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by ColdSteel »

Yeah, I plan on giving this another try. I figure if they haven't addressed the major issues and complaints with the game at this point, they aren't ever going to.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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ColdSteel wrote:Yeah, I plan on giving this another try. I figure if they haven't addressed the major issues and complaints with the game at this point, they aren't ever going to.
Clearly you're not aware of how Paradox operates. :D Crusader Kings 2 has been getting updates for 5 years now, and still keeps getting better, not to mention EU4.
tgb wrote: So who else is jumping on this today?
Yup, I'm all over this. Have to work today, and having a family dinner tonight, but my birthday is Monday, so I took tomorrow and Monday off to dive into it.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Lorini »

Same old thing. I get invaded by huge fleets within half an hour of starting the game and can't do anything. :(
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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Lorini wrote:Same old thing. I get invaded by huge fleets within half an hour of starting the game and can't do anything. :(
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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Lorini wrote:Same old thing. I get invaded by huge fleets within half an hour of starting the game and can't do anything. :(
There were some good mods to eliminate this but with all the changes the mods were not updated and would no longer work. I had hoped they had incorporated something in the game to turn these events off. What you described is the main reason I have not played this in a while.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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Lorini wrote:Same old thing. I get invaded by huge fleets within half an hour of starting the game and can't do anything. :(
Another empire attacked you, or was it an event?

Granted I tend to setup my games with less advanced start factions, and empires spread evenly over the map, but I've never seen anything that early that could get past my fleet, let alone my home station.
Lassr wrote: There were some good mods to eliminate this but with all the changes the mods were not updated and would no longer work. I had hoped they had incorporated something in the game to turn these events off. What you described is the main reason I have not played this in a while.
You're talking about the crisis events? You can turn them off in game setup as of patch 1.3.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Pyperkub »

$20 seems a bit too high for me for now
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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Sepiche wrote:
Lassr wrote: There were some good mods to eliminate this but with all the changes the mods were not updated and would no longer work. I had hoped they had incorporated something in the game to turn these events off. What you described is the main reason I have not played this in a while.
You're talking about the crisis events? You can turn them off in game setup as of patch 1.3.
Excellent! May play this again since I just finished a game of Civ VI
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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Sepiche wrote:
Lorini wrote:Same old thing. I get invaded by huge fleets within half an hour of starting the game and can't do anything. :(
Another empire attacked you, or was it an event?

Granted I tend to setup my games with less advanced start factions, and empires spread evenly over the map, but I've never seen anything that early that could get past my fleet, let alone my home station.
Lassr wrote: There were some good mods to eliminate this but with all the changes the mods were not updated and would no longer work. I had hoped they had incorporated something in the game to turn these events off. What you described is the main reason I have not played this in a while.
You're talking about the crisis events? You can turn them off in game setup as of patch 1.3.
Got a notice that this 800+ ship was in my homeworld. Along with a 500+ ship in my colony's homeworld.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Zarathud »

I believe there is a standard event that plops down pirates/raiders nearby after a certain amount of development or time. If you don't pop them, they build up. But they are often not aggressive once you scare them off, losing some stations and ships in the process.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by tgb »

I usually build up my fleet a bit at the very beginning. 5 or 6 Corvettes are usually strong enough to keep the first few waves of pirates at bay.

I knew that colony ships no longer appeared as one of the first researchable techs - by why didn't I know that you start off with them already researched? D'oh!
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Lorini »

I changed something on the start and my new game is much better. The game is still kind of slow but at least I feel like I have a chance.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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tgb wrote:I usually build up my fleet a bit at the very beginning. 5 or 6 Corvettes are usually strong enough to keep the first few waves of pirates at bay.

I knew that colony ships no longer appeared as one of the first researchable techs - by why didn't I know that you start off with them already researched? D'oh!
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Sepiche »

Played quite a bit of this over the weekend and I'm now about 300 years into a game as a Fanatic Pacifist/Xenophobe race. I took those bulk up on civics that generate unity, and that ultimately payed off pretty well. I was able to completely unlock my first tradition branch within 10 years, and unlock all of them after about ~200 years. Terrirory-wise my nation is rather small, and I've only recently passed the 10 planet mark, but despite the size I have, by a good margin, the most powerful fleet among the normal empires, and I could even take on one or two of the stagnant empires with my main fleet power approaching 100K (~40 battleships, 40 cruisers, and 50 destroyers). Of course being pacifist it means my military has rarely seen action with only a couple wars where I was drawn in by an ally, but they have successfully acted as a deterrent to my many enemies all game.

I wanted to focus on mega structures, and that has also payed off with the recent completion of my first ringworld, and the start of construction of my first dyson sphere, not to mention the 4 habitats in my original home system. The habitats seem like a lot of work for what you get at first, but in the mid game they are a great way of boosting energy and research production in particular. The rings worlds are of course very slow to build, and very expensive (~82500 mineral to complete all 4 sections, and that's with master builder), but the ultimate payoff is 4 size 25 gaia "planets" in the same system. :shock: That's a pretty massive boost in the end game where all the planets have been colonized.

Overall I'm loving a lot of the changes to the game. With Utopia and the other updates since release they've really made the late game much more interesting. Despite being basically done with research I still have enemies that can challenge me. One of the stagnant empires has reawakened and are busy launching crusades in the north, and one of my neighbors has started down the path to becoming a synthetic empire. Not to mention the rumblings of rebellion I keep getting from my synth slaves.

I think my only big disappointment is there are still very few ways to "win". They added the federation win at least, but one of the downsides of being a pacifist in a galaxy full of authoritarians is none of the federations will let me join because I can't declare offensive wars. Would be pretty cool if there was a way to win via genetics, or mega structures, or research, or spirituality, etc. That would at least give non-warlike factions something to shoot for (so to speak).
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by tgb »

My feeling with Paradox games is that the journey is more important than the destination,*so I don't worry about victory conditions. I just role play as much as I can and see what stories emerge. I don't think I've ever made it to the "end" of a Paradox title.







*Except possibly HoI
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Sepiche »

Yeah, I've played enough Paradox games I can still enjoy the ride, but just feels like, especially with all the new ascension perks, there's a good place to add a few new victory objectives.

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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by UsulofDoom »

It's on sale now. 40% off till the 14th. Is it worth getting the Digital Anniversary Edition BUNDLE for $49? I liked Space Empires IV ,is this better?
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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They released the 1.6 Adams update today. Mostly bug fixes and quality of life improvements.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

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UsulofDoom wrote:It's on sale now. 40% off till the 14th. Is it worth getting the Digital Anniversary Edition BUNDLE for $49? I liked Space Empires IV ,is this better?
FYI, you can get the base game (and several other unannounced games) as part of the current Humble Monthly for $12.

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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by LordMortis »

Sepiche wrote:Yeah, I've played enough Paradox games I can still enjoy the ride, but just feels like, especially with all the new ascension perks, there's a good place to add a few new victory objectives.

Here's my new capital.
Enlarge Image

Still has that new ring smell.
Maybe it's time to revisit. That doesn't even look remotely like the ring worlds that were in the game the last time I played. I haven't paid for any DLC, so maybe I need to check out the sale as well...

Edit:

$20 DLC and it's not on sale. Maybe it's not quite time to revisit.... It'd be much more tempting if I had more gaming time in my life and was actively looking for something. I have several games that have gone from beta to full release that I'm still trying to get in and I really want to play DST with chaosraven one day, so this is still going to be on hold for returning to. But I will say it's much more pretty than it was for Heinlein, I think that was the last release I played.
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Max Peck
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Max Peck »

LordMortis wrote:I haven't paid for any DLC, so maybe I need to check out the sale as well...
I used the Steam "Digital Anniversary" bundle to top off my DLC; the pre-Utopia stuff is on sale, and the bundle itself has a 10% discount, so it saved me a couple of dollars on Utopia as well.
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Lorini
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Lorini »

UsulofDoom wrote:It's on sale now. 40% off till the 14th. Is it worth getting the Digital Anniversary Edition BUNDLE for $49? I liked Space Empires IV ,is this better?
This is NOTHING like Space Empires. If I recall correctly Space Empires was turn based? This is real time. This has a lot of story build up whereas Space Empires is more mechanics. This looks a lot better than Space Empires, but I'd try Distant Worlds before Stellaris if you're looking for a real time modern Space Empires.
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LordMortis
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by LordMortis »

Lorini wrote:
UsulofDoom wrote:It's on sale now. 40% off till the 14th. Is it worth getting the Digital Anniversary Edition BUNDLE for $49? I liked Space Empires IV ,is this better?
This is NOTHING like Space Empires. If I recall correctly Space Empires was turn based? This is real time. This has a lot of story build up whereas Space Empires is more mechanics. This looks a lot better than Space Empires, but I'd try Distant Worlds before Stellaris if you're looking for a real time modern Space Empires.
I'm interested in the original sales pitch that the game would become a sort of procedural generated set of events that intermingle with your decision making to create a sort of strategic and tactical space opera game. To the date of my last play through, it has disappointed me in my expectation based on their sales pitch but... even though it not TBS, I (mostly) treat it like one through pausable orders (you simply can't do that in combat though) and even with its warts and major flaws it's one of the better space TBS games. I put it in the same realm as MoO2 and Birth of the Federation, which are also wart filled and flawed but stand out as my most memorable space strategy games.

My biggest problem when last I played was still the end game event, which made the game feel like I was playing limited demo. You get 70 to 140 years and then game dumps you out.

Note: Right now I'm playing old Star Wars:Rebellion again, so my style of game is not in the same zip code as most others.
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Zenn7 »

This is going to be in the next monthly humble bundle - $12 for this and some other assortment of unknown games. Hmm...
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Re: Stellaris: New Paradox Sci Fi Grand Strategy

Post by Lassr »

Just "finished" a game where I had no conflicts other than pirates and space monsters.

I say "finished" as in, there was nothing left to do. I could not start wars because everyone was in a federation of some sort and the game just kept going and going...

So my civilization survived and flourished so I guess that would be a win.
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