[Sid Meier] Civilization VI

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:14 am

Game 4 ended with another unexpected cultural victory. I was kinda sorta nudging that on the back burner while concentrating on religion and tech. The AI should've beaten me to the tech victory, but none of them were working on it.

For Game 5 I'm playing the Germans, whose superpower is conquering citystates. My nearest neighbor is Greece, who likes citystates. Looks like this is going to be a straight-ahead wargame.

BTW, the manual says that one's score receives a boost for winning early. Not that it matters with no HOF, but that's how it's supposed to work.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:43 pm

80 points on a Deity 2 player duel. But now that I've beat Deity I can go back a more standard game.

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:37 am

I'm still trying to figure out if LM and Kraken actually *like* the game or are simply experiencing a sadomasochistic gaming moment where they can't stop just because it's CIV.

BTW, serious here. I have opted not to invest time in the game for all the issues I've read, but feel like I must be missing out since you two seem unable to stop playing.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:43 am

Freyland wrote:I'm still trying to figure out if LM and Kraken actually *like* the game or are simply experiencing a sadomasochistic gaming moment where they can't stop just because it's CIV.

Yes? Though not because it's Civ. I was turned off by Civ V and never went back. I often get kind of OCD exploring games and this game had a dynamic worth exploring, so I'm kinda playing through the achievements and exploring the game until I move on to something else. I may or may not make it through a game with every leader before getting distracted.

I'm really enjoying the current game I'm playing right now. I'm doing an Huge Marathon Emperor Island Platelets Starting the in Classic Era with all 20 opponents.

Also 13 new achievements has them saying DLC with new leaders is about to be released. That makes me a little sad. They still haven't released Aztec to the non beta buyers and the game still feels like it should cook a bit more before they start making plays for more money.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:05 pm

Freyland wrote:I'm still trying to figure out if LM and Kraken actually *like* the game or are simply experiencing a sadomasochistic gaming moment where they can't stop just because it's CIV.

BTW, serious here. I have opted not to invest time in the game for all the issues I've read, but feel like I must be missing out since you two seem unable to stop playing.

The new game model is really very good. I like most of the changes to core gameplay. I have a lot of complaints about implementation that I won't rehash here. Most or all of those are fixable in mods, patches, and expansions.

Overall, I'm enjoying the game. It's got the old one-more-turn magic. My tentative plan is to play once as each available civilization, and then put it aside until it's fixed and rebalanced. But to be honest I don't have any other new games or the money to buy one, and I'm burned out on all of my old games, so it's Civ by default.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:23 pm

Kraken wrote:Overall, I'm enjoying the game. It's got the old one-more-turn magic. My tentative plan is to play once as each available civilization, and then put it aside until it's fixed and rebalanced. But to be honest I don't have any other new games or the money to buy one, and I'm burned out on all of my old games, so it's Civ by default.

That's me in a nutshell.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:21 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Also 13 new achievements has them saying DLC with new leaders is about to be released. That makes me a little sad. They still haven't released Aztec to the non beta buyers and the game still feels like it should cook a bit more before they start making plays for more money.

Having played five of the included leaders now, I don't see very much difference between them. My playing style depends more on each game's situation than on my civ's unique attributes. Paying for a bunch of new ones is not compelling, except insofar as it would be nice to have more varied AI opponents.

Maybe if it's rilly rilly cheap....

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:34 pm

Kraken wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
Also 13 new achievements has them saying DLC with new leaders is about to be released. That makes me a little sad. They still haven't released Aztec to the non beta buyers and the game still feels like it should cook a bit more before they start making plays for more money.
Having played five of the included leaders now, I don't see very much difference between them. My playing style depends more on each game's situation than on my civ's unique attributes. Paying for a bunch of new ones is not compelling, except insofar as it would be nice to have more varied AI opponents.

Maybe if it's rilly rilly cheap....

Play on whatever is above Emperor. Immortal? Then you really have to start playing with the strengths of your leader. I actually scaled back to Emperor because I like to play with a ton of opponents on a hug map and that's enough to rely on playing to my leaders strengths.

I think I'm on my eighth game now but two of them were on duel maps and went really quickly. I've kicked out Russia, Brazil, Scythia, Athens, Germany, The Congo, Sumeria, Arabia and am now playing Norway. I guess that means I'm on my 9th game now. That's just shy of half way through.

If you could carve out a niche for yourself, I'd think so far I'd like Russia the best. I love the more rapid expansion of borders. It never works out for me though because they always encroach on my territory before I get a chance to spam settlements.

infinitelurker · Post by **infinitelurker** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:35 pm

tgb wrote:Isn't there a mod that keeps religious units out of your territory if borders are closed to the sender? Has anyone tried it?

Tell me this exists, please, and if so can I apply it to a current game? I'm playing King level, and I can barely traverse my own land due to it being chock-full of religious units.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:56 pm

Freyland wrote: BTW, serious here. I have opted not to invest time in the game for all the issues I've read, but feel like I must be missing out since you two seem unable to stop playing.

If you have other things to play, I think should wait.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:10 am

My attempt to win a jesus victory on a large map was thwarted by an AI win. Last time I checked, I had converted over 60 cities, and that still wasn't enough. Size does matter I think, now my snake oil salesmen are trying for a victory on a small map.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:53 am

Jeff V wrote:My attempt to win a jesus victory on a large map was thwarted by an AI win. Last time I checked, I had converted over 60 cities, and that still wasn't enough. Size does matter I think, now my snake oil salesmen are trying for a victory on a small map.

You pretty much have to have everyone to win religious victory. It's >50% of the population of every Civ. So yeah, size does matter. That said, I found that it was the easiest victory to achieve in every setting so for except for deity, in which it is really hard to claim a religion. So much so, that I've turned religion off as a victory condition on a few games. The easiest path to a "Jesus Victory" is to locate enemy Jesus camps as they come on line and wipe them out either by war or conversion. With no competing religions, spreading yours come pretty quickly.

The odd thing is I thought religious victories were going to be super tough and I was wrong, it's just that the end game can be super "man can we get this over already."

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:52 am

LordMortis wrote: it's just that the end game can be super "man can we get this over already."

This is one thing they just can't seem to fix in Civ. What I think it needs is a mechanism where the various AI players concede if they do not have a plausible path to victory. Why should you have to slog through turn after turn building space rockets when nobody else has even figured out how work their smartphones? The computer ought to be able to do the calculations and figure out if there is path to any sort of victory that can be achieved prior to the player winning. Maybe have this calculation as a menu option, so when you think the game has become non-competitive, you can request this calculation be done.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:59 am

Jeff V wrote:
LordMortis wrote: it's just that the end game can be super "man can we get this over already."
This is one thing they just can't seem to fix in Civ. What I think it needs is a mechanism where the various AI players concede if they do not have a plausible path to victory. Why should you have to slog through turn after turn building space rockets when nobody else has even figured out how work their smartphones? The computer ought to be able to do the calculations and figure out if there is path to any sort of victory that can be achieved prior to the player winning. Maybe have this calculation as a menu option, so when you think the game has become non-competitive, you can request this calculation be done.

If there was a real scoreboard... that magnified for early victories, I think it would help the slogging through it feel. Even if it was just for my private vanity, it'd feel like something. Right now "the reward" for slogging through to the end of a marathon game (which is the game I prefer until sometime in the 1800s at most levels) is putting another achievement on the board.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:28 pm

Jeff V wrote:
LordMortis wrote: it's just that the end game can be super "man can we get this over already."
This is one thing they just can't seem to fix in Civ. What I think it needs is a mechanism where the various AI players concede if they do not have a plausible path to victory. Why should you have to slog through turn after turn building space rockets when nobody else has even figured out how work their smartphones? The computer ought to be able to do the calculations and figure out if there is path to any sort of victory that can be achieved prior to the player winning. Maybe have this calculation as a menu option, so when you think the game has become non-competitive, you can request this calculation be done.

Seems like unless you're competing with another person, you could just mentally concede the computer players on their behalf and then start a new game.

Jaymon · Post by **Jaymon** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:21 pm

I also am tired of the religious units cluttering the map.
I didn't get a prophet, so i didn't get a religion, and can't build those guys. But I see 15 missionaries and 5 apostles running back and forth through my country like the tide, and my only option to get rid of them is war with my neighbor. they aren't converting anything, just cluttering up space, so I can't even issue a demand about them.

In another game, I approach Russia, and see 4 great people standing around, a mix of artists and writers and whatnot. All of them just standing there. its like, umm, how did you even get those guys, if you have no place to house their works?

I am also tired of the warmonger BS. somebody declares war on me, out of the blue, and then i fight back, and that makes me a warmonger.

The culture victory messages are bugged. When you overtake a specific country, the popup warns that they are in the lead, the message gets it completely backwards.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:09 pm

Jaymon wrote: I can't even issue a demand about them.

The inequity of the demand system is annoying. They can demand I withdraw troops but I can't demand they withdraw troops? Why can't we demand they withdraw settlers (and vice versa) before they are settled? That whole part of the diplomacy system is goofy and needs an enema.

I am also tired of the warmonger BS. somebody declares war on me, out of the blue, and then i fight back, and that makes me a warmonger.

Only if you take their cities, which I do... slowly... You can be at war forever killing troops and pillaging lands and not be a warmonger.

Which brings me to "what if war weariness or fatigue?" There are civics for it but no mention of it anywhere.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:30 pm

LordMortis wrote:Which brings me to "what if war weariness or fatigue?" There are civics for it but no mention of it anywhere.

It's a happiness debuff that is applied to individual cities. You can see it in the City Status report.

infinitelurker · Post by **infinitelurker** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:50 pm

Well, 240 turns into my second game and I have a recurring game-ending crash I can't get around.

I've tried all of the following:

going back a few turns in saves
updating my graphics drivers
running in both normal and DirectX 12 modes

I'm digging into the crash dump files in Visual Studio now, blah, I just want to finish that game not work!

Edit: Submitted a ticket to 2K support, heard back in under an hour with steps to try to resolve, and which files to send back if the steps didn't resolve it (they didn't). Fingers crossed I'll be able to continue my colonial war against Spain.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:55 am

El Guapo wrote: Seems like unless you're competing with another person, you could just mentally concede the computer players on their behalf and then start a new game.

In prior games, you play for the HoF score. Now you just play to see where your final score ranks. Hopefully, a HoF will be restored - or modded in.

LordMortis wrote: Only if you take their cities, which I do... slowly... You can be at war forever killing troops and pillaging lands and not be a warmonger.

This is the second game I've played where Greece is an enemy that cannot be appeased. I'd have rather been at peace, but since it's impossible I'm gearing up for a war of extermination. I'm on an island map, so I'll need lots of frigates. I'm slowly wresting control of the seas.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:16 am

Jeff V wrote:Only if you take their cities, which I do... slowly... You can be at war forever killing troops and pillaging lands and not be a warmonger.

This is the second game I've played where Greece is an enemy that cannot be appeased. I'd have rather been at peace, but since it's impossible I'm gearing up for a war of extermination. I'm on an island map, so I'll need lots of frigates. I'm slowly wresting control of the seas.[/quote]

I have found that long dragged out wars keep others from declaring war on me as the main enemy of the world arbitrarily and that taking territories slowly allows acts of warmongering to dissipate before accumulating more. This realization only came after one game where Germany and England kept going from friendly to declaring war to suing for peace on like a 40 turn cycle. I eventually got sick of the cycle and stayed at war with England for being Germany's stooge for 100s of turns. I reduced her army to rubble and then just kicked her every so often because I could and it was nice give my units experience. Germany quickly sued for peace and never declared war again because he couldn't get his Thrall to go first.

I have not found fatigue or war weariness to ever be even a minor factor in my crazy long and pointless wars and I'm glad it hasn't been. The idea of having war weariness accumulate on me when there is cycle of stupid wars going on would have game stopper for me.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:44 am

So I'm playing along when all of a sudden a couple of cities go into revolt. Huh? Turns out I ran out of money, which was exceedingly odd because my cashflow was positive. Something flipped the + sign to a -. My income was shrinking by the amount it was supposed to be growing each turn, and changing civics to maximize income just made it shrink all the faster. The bug carried forward when reloading autosaves. No matter how far back I went, I was still hosed.

I think it initially triggered when I entered the modern era, but I couldn't test that because it carried forward into my autosaves.

I haven't tested whether restarting the game and loading my last good save will restore normality. I assume it will, but I'll lose 2 hours of gameplay and I'm not confident that it won't happen again when I catch up to whatever triggered it in the first place. I will be mega-pissed if I replay those two hours only to have it fail again. I will also be mega-pissed if I have to throw away my game and start a new one.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:45 am

Kraken wrote:So I'm playing along when all of a sudden a couple of cities go into revolt. Huh? Turns out I ran out of money, which was exceedingly odd because my cashflow was positive. Something flipped the + sign to a -. My income was shrinking by the amount it was supposed to be growing each turn, and changing civics to maximize income just made it shrink all the faster. The bug carried forward when reloading autosaves. No matter how far back I went, I was still hosed.

I think it initially triggered when I entered the modern era, but I couldn't test that because it carried forward into my autosaves.

I haven't tested whether restarting the game and loading my last good save will restore normality. I assume it will, but I'll lose 2 hours of gameplay and I'm not confident that it won't happen again when I catch up to whatever triggered it in the first place. I will be mega-pissed if I replay those two hours only to have it fail again. I will also be mega-pissed if I have to throw away my game and start a new one.

Is it a bug or did you get robbed by a spy? I'm not sure how robbing cash works with a spy. For that matter did you miss a civics change where you had a nice discount go away?

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:48 am

I do wish there was an easier way to see how civics changes will affect income.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:50 am

wonderpug wrote:I do wish there was an easier way to see how civics changes will affect income.

Ditto. My game always locks for a 30 seconds or so as it runs its calculations and I feel like I'm sitting waiting for the wheels of a slot machine to stop spinning. Come oooon. Big money!

infinitelurker · Post by **infinitelurker** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:27 am

Kraken wrote:I will be mega-pissed if I replay those two hours only to have it fail again. I will also be mega-pissed if I have to throw away my game and start a new one.

I feel your pain. After going back and forth with 2K support about my crash-to-desktop bug and trying all of their workarounds (declare war on all the other civs, make peace with all the other civs, etc.) with no luck, I received a "we're sorry" and "we understand how frustrating this must be" from them. Sigh. I'm gonna shelve it, hope the next patch fixes it if not for that save game, then for future ones.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:16 am

So I got my jesus win with Cleopatra this morning. I had to eliminate Greece to make it happen -- it's difficult to convert cities with a war going on since combat units can just smite your proselytizing cockroaches. The outcome was a mere Warren Harding win.

So now I am playing Freddy Barbarossa, and decided I will pursue military conquest. This means it was a very bad idea for Kongo to declare war on me early in the game. I think he had 2 cities; now one of them is mine and I have about a dozen archers marching on his capital. Every turn he whines for peace, every turn I flip him the bird.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:24 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Kraken wrote:So I'm playing along when all of a sudden a couple of cities go into revolt. Huh? Turns out I ran out of money, which was exceedingly odd because my cashflow was positive. Something flipped the + sign to a -. My income was shrinking by the amount it was supposed to be growing each turn, and changing civics to maximize income just made it shrink all the faster. The bug carried forward when reloading autosaves. No matter how far back I went, I was still hosed.

I think it initially triggered when I entered the modern era, but I couldn't test that because it carried forward into my autosaves.

I haven't tested whether restarting the game and loading my last good save will restore normality. I assume it will, but I'll lose 2 hours of gameplay and I'm not confident that it won't happen again when I catch up to whatever triggered it in the first place. I will be mega-pissed if I replay those two hours only to have it fail again. I will also be mega-pissed if I have to throw away my game and start a new one.
Is it a bug or did you get robbed by a spy? I'm not sure how robbing cash works with a spy. For that matter did you miss a civics change where you had a nice discount go away?

The fact that the negative cashflow persisted when I went back to my autosaves says it's a bug. Also the fact that my balance was declining by the same amount that it was supposed to increase each turn. Also the fact that changing civics to increase cashflow actually made it decline faster. It really looks like the + sign simply flipped to -.

I have enough hours into this game and am in a decent enough position that I'm not willing to flush it. Going to start again from my last good manual save tonight and see what happens, even though that means replaying the 2 hours that I played last night. This time I'm going to keep a close eye on the bank balance and see if I can pin down exactly when it flips...if it does.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:30 pm

Kraken wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
Kraken wrote:So I'm playing along when all of a sudden a couple of cities go into revolt. Huh? Turns out I ran out of money, which was exceedingly odd because my cashflow was positive. Something flipped the + sign to a -. My income was shrinking by the amount it was supposed to be growing each turn, and changing civics to maximize income just made it shrink all the faster. The bug carried forward when reloading autosaves. No matter how far back I went, I was still hosed.

I think it initially triggered when I entered the modern era, but I couldn't test that because it carried forward into my autosaves.

I haven't tested whether restarting the game and loading my last good save will restore normality. I assume it will, but I'll lose 2 hours of gameplay and I'm not confident that it won't happen again when I catch up to whatever triggered it in the first place. I will be mega-pissed if I replay those two hours only to have it fail again. I will also be mega-pissed if I have to throw away my game and start a new one.
Is it a bug or did you get robbed by a spy? I'm not sure how robbing cash works with a spy. For that matter did you miss a civics change where you had a nice discount go away?
The fact that the negative cashflow persisted when I went back to my autosaves says it's a bug. Also the fact that my balance was declining by the same amount that it was supposed to increase each turn. Also the fact that changing civics to increase cashflow actually made it decline faster. It really looks like the + sign simply flipped to -.

I have enough hours into this game and am in a decent enough position that I'm not willing to flush it. Going to start again from my last good manual save tonight and see what happens, even though that means replaying the 2 hours that I played last night. This time I'm going to keep a close eye on the bank balance and see if I can pin down exactly when it flips...if it does.

I've had and read about similar issues. It always seems related to a spy stealing. I'd say it's a bug because if it's working as designed, that sucks. Maybe you found a different version of it though.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:14 pm

Is sounds like when you go back, you should build a spy (or recall one) and protect you home commercial district.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ ... em.601468/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/d ... 413877639/

Also note, in my marathon games, a spy mission lasts 24 turns, I think, so if you can survive it, maybe the bug will evaporate.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:48 pm

Well those threads are enlightening. OK, I'm willing to entertain the possibility that it's a spy and it's working as designed, but overpowered and devoid of feedback. Will try to make a defensive spy or two tonight and see if that solves my "bug", because losing my whole treasury and income ruined my empire in pretty short order.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:15 pm

I had my treasury looted by a spy once, and then a strange thing happened. My income was listed at around 400 per turn, but my bank balance only increased by around 100 ever turn.

Now my first spy generally sits on my pile of gold (commercial district, capital city) and the next one goes to the industrial district. If I build a rocket ship, then a third one sits on the launch pad.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:29 pm

Kraken wrote:Well those threads are enlightening. OK, I'm willing to entertain the possibility that it's a spy and it's working as designed, but overpowered and devoid of feedback. Will try to make a defensive spy or two tonight and see if that solves my "bug", because losing my whole treasury and income ruined my empire in pretty short order.

I'm not entirely sure it's working as intended but it seems to be a common cause.

I concur on the weak feedback.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:33 pm

Jeff V wrote:I had my treasury looted by a spy once, and then a strange thing happened. My income was listed at around 400 per turn, but my bank balance only increased by around 100 ever turn.

Now my first spy generally sits on my pile of gold (commercial district, capital city) and the next one goes to the industrial district. If I build a rocket ship, then a third one sits on the launch pad.

I put my first spy in my commercial district because it's the AIs favorite target and it's the easiest way to level my spies while concurrently providing major protection. If I'm smart then my industrial district is adjacent to my commercial district and he protects both. I'm not always smart.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:11 pm

Spies were the problem. My only one was caught stealing from the French. I paid a ridiculous ransom and put him on defense. A few turns later, he busted a French spy stealing from me. Two turns after that he busted another one. No wonder my empire went down in flames. Now I have two hostage spies for which the AI is offering diddly. That's OK...as long as they're rotting in my dungeon they aren't causing trouble.

How does one gain additional spies? I presume it involves policies and/or techs, but I don't see any feedback telling me which ones and a quick googling was less than informative.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:39 pm

Kraken wrote:How does one gain additional spies? I presume it involves policies and/or techs, but I don't see any feedback telling me which ones and a quick googling was less than informative.

Saith the wiki:

Each player can only support a limited number of Spies. One Spy is granted for each of these:
Castles: Medieval Era Tech (if playing as Catherine de Medici)

Diplomatic Service: Renaissance Era Civic

Nationalism: Industrial Era Civic

Ideology: Modern Era Civic

Cold War: Atomic Era Civic

Computers: Atomic Era Tech

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:33 pm

Max Peck wrote:
Kraken wrote:How does one gain additional spies? I presume it involves policies and/or techs, but I don't see any feedback telling me which ones and a quick googling was less than informative.
Saith the wiki:
Each player can only support a limited number of Spies. One Spy is granted for each of these:
Castles: Medieval Era Tech (if playing as Catherine de Medici)

Diplomatic Service: Renaissance Era Civic

Nationalism: Industrial Era Civic

Ideology: Modern Era Civic

Cold War: Atomic Era Civic

Computers: Atomic Era Tech

Thanks. When I went looking for that I found a list from 2014 that said you can get 10 spies from "quests." I don't know what game they were playing.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:37 am

Really enjoying my long slow island platelets game. I've been playing it for two or three weeks now. I'm up 1800 and it looks like my religious victory will be inevitable but is still a long time coming. I captured one religious civ and have converted four of the five remaining religious civs. After that it's probably 100+ years of clean up. I'm likely to turn religious wins off after this. We'll see.

In the Renaissance era (emperor? If that matters( the total war monger penalty for eliminating a civ with three cities that declared war on me was 99. I'm still at war with another toothless civilization while the my penalty cools off, so other more powerful civs don't declare war on me. And for the first time ever, I have a problem war weariness. I actually had a rebellion to quash. I didn't even see it coming, as war weariness has never been a problem before.

So, I'm still getting more good than bad out of this game. This round may tempt me to push my luck and start another game before patching/DLC/etc...

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:09 pm

After dispatching with Kongo, I spent most of the mid-game building up a wartime economy and infrastructure. In all this time, nobody else hated me quite enough to declare war on me, although I was as provoking as possible. Finally, I decided I should clear out the Aztec infestation on my continent. Because of geography, it was rather tricky and time consuming. Three overseas colonies also had to be eliminated to wipe him out entirely, and it was easier to assimilate his city-state ally than to overthrow his control.

That left two cities owned by foreign powers on my continent. One of them, Egypt, was an ally (after that pact expired, she immediately denounced me however). Most of my cities have trade routes running to Egypt, which is but a single city. I'll leave that one alone for now. The other was the US. Taking the Aztec colonies left me with a force in position to take New York and Philadelphia; and on my continent, Cincinnati. Turns out America owned a rather large city state on my continent to. That is past tense. The city state was assimilated, their army vanished, and I directly marched on and took Cincinnati. After I take NY and Philly, I'll root out whatever the US has left in the largely unexplored center of its continent. Everyone but France is pissed at me, but France is pouring legions of Jesuses into my territory.

dbemont · Post by **dbemont** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:43 pm

Really, really enjoying the game. I could make a long list of annoyances, all valid, some just plain eye-rollers. But it remains extremely fun and immersive, especially for the first 150 turns or so.

I especially like the inland sea map type, which combined with at least Emperor difficulty, seems to allow the AIs more chance to develop the way they ought to. I've seen Kongo, Brazil, Rome, Gorgo's Greece, Spain, China, and Russia all stay competitive far into the game.

Very much agree with the person who said you need to play at a high enough difficulty to care about the differences between Civs. But that is when it gets really interesting.

The thing I like best is the replayability, the variety from game to game. It really, really matters, aside from the terrain, which city-states you can influence from very early on (a much bigger deal than goodie huts), and who your neighbors are. And how much room you have for expansion.

I'll admit, though, if I were playing the game primarily as a military game, I'd get tired of it very quickly. When forced by circumstances to go in that direction, it feels like a slog, and not a very challenging one.

The worst thing about the game, by far, is that is becomes mind mindbogglingly boring, if you feel you must play it out to the very end, to see that victory screen. If you can't look at a big lead and say "I've won" this might not be the game for you.