Octopus Overlords

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:09 pm So it sounds like my standard push for Wonders early on isn't all that useful anymore. Just let the AI hassle with them and focus on expansion, conquest, and ultimately get the Wonders through military superiority?

That's been the standard strategy at higher levels of Civ since Civ 3, I believe. Let the AI (with their multiplicative advantages) build up a nice group of cities for you to conquer.

To be fair to my limited Civ skills, I used to always play on "Warlord" and the only victory I ever chased was "Domination" - and I'm a natural turtle in strategy games. It's really hard for me to visualize early rushing when I enjoy building defenses.

Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:25 am To be fair to my limited Civ skills, I used to always play on "Warlord" and the only victory I ever chased was "Domination" - and I'm a natural turtle in strategy games. It's really hard for me to visualize early rushing when I enjoy building defenses.

At Warlord or Prince, you can certainly build some Wonders if you like. The AI's major bonuses start at King. Most relevantly, it gets a 20% boost to production per level from that point (i.e., +20% at King up to +80% on Deity), so you will lose any all-other-things-being-equal race on those levels. The only way to build Wonders on those levels to be really precise about it: target and rush to the necessary tech before anyone else, use the Policy cards that give you Wonder-building bonuses, only build them in optimized, high-production cities, chop a forest or two for an added boost, etc.. Even then, the cost in lost turns and production if you lose the race is usually so high that, as Meal said, it's generally easier to just let the AI build them and then conquer them.

I tend to like to turtle and play peacefully myself, as well. I just usually to avoid most of the Wonders because there are so many other things to build that I never want to take a city out of the mix for that long... and a lot of the Wonders in Civ 6 can only be built in certain locations or only benefit a particular victory condition, so I find the majority of them aren't available or interesting in any given game.

- Ash

So how soon can you build canals? Or mountain tunnnels? That seems kind of cool. Not sure about the other stuff overall, I always play a "loner nation" who just wants to quickly gobble up all the available land for cities. For those who've played now for close to a week is it still fun? Or has the bloom come off the rose?

I took a day or two break, after the rebellion shut down my current game, but I'm itching to reload and try to finish the round.

The last game I played, I got to canals and mountain tunnels but didn't use either extensively. I found tunnels to be more useful, because it seems like mountain ranges are all over the maps since the GS expansion. I cut through a couple barriers and it made things a lot easier. Didn't really have the opportunity for canals.

Newcastle wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:56 pm So how soon can you build canals? Or mountain tunnnels? That seems kind of cool.

Middle game-ish? They're built by Military Engineers, not Builders, so you can't build them straight away. The one tunnel I built was definitely handy. I haven't found a situation where I actually needed to build a canal yet. On the other hand, I enjoyed building Ski Hills and Seaside Resorts towards the end of the Culture victory that I finished out last night.

For those who've played now for close to a week is it still fun? Or has the bloom come off the rose?

I've played two games (Small Prince, science victory, and Standard King, culture victory) of Gathering Storm so far. I'm still having fun, although in interpreting that, understand that while Civ is a game that I keep installed permanently, I tend to go months or years between bouts of playing it. I'm not even sure I ever got around to playing a game of Rise & Fall, although I bought that expansion when it was released. So, it's been awhile, and I may be catching up for lost time a bit more than other people. That said, I had to get up at 6AM this morning but I still stayed up until 1 playing.

More specifically: I increased the weather effects from 2 to 3 (i.e., one above their default) in my second game, and I found to be a good setting. My game ended before climate change kicked in but I felt basic floods/eruptions/storms were prevalent enough on that level to matter, without being too crippling.

As was discussed earlier, the AI is still not the game's strong suit. There are still clearly systems that the AI just doesn't know how to handle. It demonstrated zero understanding of the Loyalty system in my last game and I was getting very sick of turning down multiple requests for my Great Works every other turn (my kingdom for a "trading block"-style feature that lets me tell the AI what I'd be interested in taking offers on or, conversely, what types of things I will not trade under any circumstances).

Those sorts of things may wind up bothering me more down the line but I'm persevering so far. Most likely, for me, is not that I will get sick of the game but that I will get pulled away to something even newer and shinier in a week or two: Anthem, or The Division 2, or MLB The Show at the end of March. Hopefully I'll get a few more complete games in before then.

- Ash

Ash, thank you for the explanation. i am going to take a wait and see approach. I'll probably snatch it up when it goes on sale in the summer.

Still making my way through my first Gathering Storm game playing Dido. I'm in the 5th age now, three of them have been golden (the other two, normal). In the past, I only had one game where I managed to avoid dark ages. I'm leading in science, diplomacy, and military - just now starting to pay lip service to culture and it's a thoroughly heathen culture at that. I've yet to full grasp the use of diplomatic currency, but I seem to have a big pile of it while everyone else has a small pile. I like how resources accumulate and are expended now.

The first natural disaster occurred early the game -- an eruption of one of 3 volcanoes that I've actually been on: Taal (Philippines).

Well, I finally had a breakthrough with my latest game. I solved the rebellion problem by scooping up a couple new luxuries, which bought me time until governors and civics had a positive impact. I now have Lautaro on the ropes, having taken four of his cities, and razed another. He has one city left, and it's a coastal town, barricaded by mountains on all but one side. I think I'll make peace and let him live in his little mountain hideaway, and turn my attention toward the other foes.

I checked the spreadsheet I made when the previous expansion came out, and I made it through 4 rounds back then. When I finish this current game, that will be 2 for GS. I also started the hot-seat game with my kids, and that's been fun. I suspect I'll equal my 4 game total for this expansion but we'll see.

Well I lost my first game. Exciting tooth and nail action till the end. Really love the expansion so far. Turn 250-370 was not boring. I played on Kings. Standard map. Continents. I usually win on Kings. It's my sandbox difficulty where I have a 75+% winrate. Emperor is a tough challenge for me.

About mid-game Kongo was leading in three categories, so I researched nukes and built two nuclear subs to nuke him. Kongo's cities were on another continent far away from mine. I nuked four different cities and brought in helicopters to conquer them. It work perfectly! Unfortunately, one of those cities was his capital and Eleanor was right next door waiting. Eleanor was in my game as England. Yep, with her special ability, she quickly flipped the capital rich city to hers. I'm sure the capital helped her tremendously. I likely did not have enough firepower to take it back.

I returned my troops back home. Satisfied that I neutralized the Kongo. I went back to focus on a science victory. In hindsight, I should have done some damage to England.

She won a Diplomatic Victory on turn 370. I had 11 turns left to my science victory! Crazy fun game. But disappointed that I didn't get into the hall of fame.

Exodor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:53 pm Does the HoF record your score even if you use mods? I seem to remember Civ V would not include any games with mods. I like to change a few things ( remove the cap on XP earned from barbarians, for example) but I would hate to put hours into a game only to find out at the end that it "didn't count".

I can now confirm that the HoF does record games played using mods - I finally finished with a Domination victory using my usual mods and the results are recorded. I like how it clearly indicates which leaders you've used to win - I'll probably try to get a win with each leader before the inevitable Civ7.

As my 3rd game winds down, a few thoughts. Since the expansion, I've not had a single dark age. In my current game, I actually surpassed the Golden Age requirement by more than 50 points! While I'm not fond of being stuck in a dark age (particularly at the end of the game), this dynamic is definitely nerfed.

Something seems off on the influence part of the game. After winning my first game using it, the last two haven't worked out so well. I horde influence points, trading for them when I can and using them sparingly. Late in the game, when I am within 2 or 3 diplomatic points of winning, I shoot my wad trying to buy the 2-point award. At this point, I have more than 10X the number of points than everyone else combined - but I still get crushed in voting as everyone else votes to knock me down a peg. Diplomatic points should probably be the top reward for all special events - aside from influence points, I've been flush with cash late game (current game, over 100K in the bank).

AI seems to be more stupid-aggressive planting cities in areas where it can't hope to keep them. Seems someone forgot to tell the AI what "-24" means on a given tile. This in turn helps destabilize nearby cities and in a cascade effect, culture flips start coming quickly late-midgame and persist through the end (a contributing factor to no dark ages).

Playing at King level, the AI is pretty passive. Maybe it's the influence pile, but nearly everyone is friends with me for most of the game and I have a full slate of alliances. The few times I've had war declared on me, I've not been seriously in trouble anywhere and usually pick off a peripheral city or two before they bow down and don't bother me again.

Victory timelines are extended and in my current situation is resulting in hours of little of significance while I await (hopefully) victory. Starship is chugging along but still many turns from arriving, I have more than 1400 tourism and still 140 turns from a Culture win.

I'll keep plugging away though - perhaps some of the other leaders make for more interesting games.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:43 pm Since the expansion, I've not had a single dark age.

Yeah, I really don't think that this age system is all that well implemented, and even less so after the expansion. Golden ages are far too common, for human and AI alike. And really, the calculation feels unrelated to the success of your civ. And more often than not, it really does not matter all that much one way or the other... Layer upon layer of failure.

And I am not much more keen on the loyalty system, either. Too easy for the human, and as you say, apparently beyond the understanding of the AI.

I enjoy the game, particularly the first half of it. But lots of the pieces just do not feel well built.

Jeff V would not approve.

All 44 Nations Battle for Earth Until 1 Left! (Civilization Battle Royale)

Rise & Fall was the 1st expansion, right? The one that nobody was thrilled with? Cuz it's $19.49 on Steam right now...which is above my $15 action threshold but below my $20 temptation threshold. I ultimately want both expansions, but it's taking Firaxis forever to bundle them.

I'm still waiting for the last one to get below $20.

Is the first one worth $20 in your opinion? Did it add enough to draw you back in?

I've played a few more games of vanilla since they added the HoF, but I'm already getting bored with it again.

No, I don't feel any of the DLCs are worth $20.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 7:03 pm No, I don't feel any of the DLCs are worth $20.

Agreed. Though I think Rise & Rule was the better improvement. fully agree with T's post below this one. Gathering Storm was the better expansion.

GS has all of the features of R&F. The only difference is the new nations. If you're not interested in them, just get GS.

Good to know, thanks. I'll wait for a good sale on GS. I'd like the new nations in R&F but I don't want them $20 worth.

A June update is coming soon. Production buffs, a couple of civ buffs, diplomacy changes, and a couple of new maps added. Looks good.

hope this gets a nice discount in the summer sale (say 50%+). Be curious to read the changes they are making. Not going to watch the video, no time. But will wait for the list to drop somewhere.

Just tried the Environmental Skin for Civ 6. Makes the countryside looks like Civ 5.
Pretty cool.

Well this was unexpected. More content coming to Civ VI announced today called New Frontiers Pass. Six new DLC's coming bi-monthly starting this month.

• 8 civs

• 9 leaders

• 6 game modes

• new districts, wonders, and resources

• balance changes

https://twitter.com/CivGame/status/1259 ... 08/photo/1

Really looking forward to it!

Good news! I was afraid they were spending their time recently with another disappointing spin-off like they did with Colonization (Civ 4) and Beyond Earth (Civ V). Still working on notching victories with all of the official civs released so far.

I agree. It's good to see their dev team work on improving the current iteration of civ and not on a side game.

Should I be buying Gathering Storm and Rise and Fall DLC in order to enjoy these new DLC? I see that the first two new DLC will require one or the other big DLC to use the new game modes, but so far I guess there's not a lot of information on them. However, do the two big DLCs already released add enough content to the base game to make them worth the price?

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 6:46 pm Should I be buying Gathering Storm and Rise and Fall DLC in order to enjoy these new DLC? I see that the first two new DLC will require one or the other big DLC to use the new game modes, but so far I guess there's not a lot of information on them. However, do the two big DLCs already released add enough content to the base game to make them worth the price?

I don't know if those are required for the new DLC's. I can say Gathering Storm and Rise&Fall add quite a bit to the overall base game. To me, those are essential and highly recommend both if you enjoy Civ 6.

With the new DLC coming out pretty quick I thought they'd start selling it now. Apparently not.

I don't like Gathering Storms disasters. Supposedly it can be turned off but it can't. Setting it to zero doesn't do it. I downloaded a mod that gets rid of it but my games crash late in the game when I use it.

Gathering Storm is not my favorite either, you can select the content you want to play if you choose create game from single player menu. Last game I selected Rise & Fall instead of Gathering Storm. You can also play standard without the addons.

I work disaster mitigation into my general strategy and rarely do I find disasters all that devastating. It's nice when you can manage your own recovery just fine but other Civs trip over themselves to help you out.

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 1:46 pm Gathering Storm is not my favorite either, you can select the content you want to play if you choose create game from single player menu. Last game I selected Rise & Fall instead of Gathering Storm. You can also play standard without the addons.

As a counter opinion, I really like Gathering Storm and the weather modelling. Rivers did flood, hurricanes did exist and droughts happened. The late game decisions around the effects of global warming I think are also interesting.

What I think it needs, especially late game, is a global market mechanic where excess stocks of strategic materials can be bought. As it stands, a country has to like you a LOT to sell you something like oil. For civs going down the path of totalitarian asshole, their could be options to vote on embargoes to such Civs. Government type could also play a role on how much you can buy.

It can be really discouraging to make it to late game only to discover your lands have no oil, coal, aluminum or even uranium. Maybe you'll be lucky and an city state that you're suzerain of has a developed resource, but you're unlikely to field modern tank armies based on these returns.

gbasden wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 4:27 pm

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 1:46 pm Gathering Storm is not my favorite either, you can select the content you want to play if you choose create game from single player menu. Last game I selected Rise & Fall instead of Gathering Storm. You can also play standard without the addons.

As a counter opinion, I really like Gathering Storm and the weather modelling. Rivers did flood, hurricanes did exist and droughts happened. The late game decisions around the effects of global warming I think are also interesting.

I do like it, just of all the add-ons it's my least favorite. Just like orange slices are my least favorite of the fruit candy slices but I'll eat the hell of them but I save the lemon, lime, grape and cherry for last because they are better.

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 5:22 pm

gbasden wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 4:27 pm

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 1:46 pm Gathering Storm is not my favorite either, you can select the content you want to play if you choose create game from single player menu. Last game I selected Rise & Fall instead of Gathering Storm. You can also play standard without the addons.

As a counter opinion, I really like Gathering Storm and the weather modelling. Rivers did flood, hurricanes did exist and droughts happened. The late game decisions around the effects of global warming I think are also interesting.

I do like it, just of all the add-ons it's my least favorite. Just like orange slices are my least favorite of the fruit candy slices but I'll eat the hell of them but I save the lemon, lime, grape and cherry for last because they are better.

You are dead to me. Orange is the most awesome, followed by spearmint.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 7:09 pm

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 5:22 pm

gbasden wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 4:27 pm

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 1:46 pm Gathering Storm is not my favorite either, you can select the content you want to play if you choose create game from single player menu. Last game I selected Rise & Fall instead of Gathering Storm. You can also play standard without the addons.

As a counter opinion, I really like Gathering Storm and the weather modelling. Rivers did flood, hurricanes did exist and droughts happened. The late game decisions around the effects of global warming I think are also interesting.

I do like it, just of all the add-ons it's my least favorite. Just like orange slices are my least favorite of the fruit candy slices but I'll eat the hell of them but I save the lemon, lime, grape and cherry for last because they are better.

You are dead to me. Orange is the most awesome, followed by spearmint.

Spearmint? Are you talking about Spice Drops? I had orange too much as a child, that was my grandmother's favorite and she made an orange slice cake also. I think I just got overdosed with orange slices.

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 7:31 pm Spearmint? Are you talking about Spice Drops? I had orange too much as a child, that was my grandmother's favorite and she made an orange slice cake also. I think I just got overdosed with orange slices.

Damn, now I want one six dozen. And I'm not supposed to eat sugary things.

But you're right, in a spice drops mix, the green and orange are the best. The rest you can't really tell apart.

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 1:46 pm Gathering Storm is not my favorite either, you can select the content you want to play if you choose create game from single player menu. Last game I selected Rise & Fall instead of Gathering Storm. You can also play standard without the addons.

I've probably asked this before: Does GS include R&F? As of a few days ago, GS was still selling for $35.