Octopus Overlords

Reddit discussion on first impressions of R&F. AI seems like it might be better, noting that not everyone says the difficulty they are on.

I might be able to buy and download it tonight but there will be little chance to play until maybe Sunday night.

Played for about 45 mins this morning before going to work. Release days are awesome. Seems like it doesn't happen often these days because of early access. Love the anticipation like waiting for Christmas morning.

New playable map types were added, including Europe. I don't remember that being there before. I decided to start with the Cree because I wanted to try their unique unit and building. Both are immediately available at the start of the game. After you research pottery, you get a free trade unit, so you want to explore quickly and find at least one City State to trade with. Another cool thing is the Cree's traders expand your city's borders as they cross the hexes, free tiles! Music is really cool and I think they added new music when barbarians are near your city. Nice little additions. Not sure about the AI, but I didn't have a great deal of issues with it in the base game. There are about a dozen AI fixes in the patch log. I'll play more tonight.

I have to say, I was not expecting gender agendas. The Viking king liked me because I'm playing Teddy and we are both men. I hope he understands we can never be more than friends.

My starting position may be the best I've ever gotten. The closest empire is across on isthmus.

The new intro movie was very well done. I almost teared up.

It might have been related to my starting location, but I blew past the golden age points needed. It starts in a few turns I guess. I'm curious how it will play out and how points will accumulate in later eras. Most of mine came from destroying barbarian outposts and finding goodie huts.

Please excuse the cross post, but I spent several hours today playing a first game with Rise and Fall. Cree at King level on a large continents map against random oppponents, who happened to include Lautaro as my next door neighbor and Robert the Bruce a little further off. Random observations to this point (realizing this is a sample of only one)
* Starting locations feel less cramped, and the map more interesting, with islands here and there.
* Hills still very difficult to see under many circumstances… real pet peeve of mine.
* The 40% rather than 50% eurekas and inspirations probably make for a better game. It’s an area where human players massacre the AI, and this mechanic really was becoming too central to game strategy.
* Wow, is it ever inconvenient to play without the CQUI interface mod. Maybe the worst is no clear indication of how long until a trader is ready for reassignment… This is a real strike against Firaxis, in my mind more blameworthy than military AI failings, because it is entirely fixable.
* The Mapuche look very strong, and not someone you want as a neighbor.
* First and only case of forward settling led to Kongo losing a city to the loyalty mechanic, and the city ended up mine.
* The new Government buildings certainly add a strategic element, but the level one buildings may not be exactly as they first appeared, at least to me. It looks to me like you usually complete the building late enough that Ancestral Hall’s settler/free builder bonus is too late for that initial expansion burst. Of course, it may time out differently on the huge maps some people play on.
* As I saw in one of the Let’s Plays, the early ages can be a bit of a trap, at least for players like myself. Ancient Age, you almost cannot avoid earning a Golden Age for the Classical Era, but none of the resulting bonuses is all that overwhelming an advantage. But then the bar is too high to escape a Dark Age for the Medieval, not without doing things you would not otherwise be doing. Which is to say, the ages mechanic is going to require some adjustment.
* One Emergency so far, and it did not make a good first impression. Lautaro captured an Arabian city, and for some reason it triggered the emergency mechanic. I had the option of joining, but it was not clear to me exactly what cities I would need to capture in order to succeed, and so I passed.
* Governors are interesting, but a little less overwhelming than I initially thought. At least I did not find a way to make any of them game-changers. But definitely fun.

Overall, the game seems somewhat more tense and interesting beyond the initial land rush. And more complex, more things to juggle.

dbemont wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:58 pm
Overall, the game seems somewhat more tense and interesting beyond the initial land rush. And more complex, more things to juggle.

I agree. I picked the expansion up on a whim, and am 125+ turns into a game before I knew it. I did have problems with starting a game, until I disabled mods. Then no problems, but I miss some of the UI changes too.

Starting location seemed better - nobody very close to me, and I've only encountered one city-state too. That said, I chose a large map, and deliberately lowered the number of civs/CSs to spread things out a bit.

Only one emergency thus far. I wasn't a part of it.

I've mangled the governors thing thus far. Interesting, but I haven't put it to good use yet.

Right now, I'm in 3rd-5th place in most rankings. Not sure if it's that I'm playing bad, or it's still early in the game.

I never had anything against Civ VI, but I admit that I'm enjoying this more than I thought I would.

dbemont wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:58 pm
* Wow, is it ever inconvenient to play without the CQUI interface mod.

One reason I'm waiting to buy this is to give modders time to catch up. I only used CQUI in my last two games, but that was enough to get hooked on it.

Bought and installed...kids were in bed, wife was napping before work, so I started a game as the new India civ.

2 turns in I meet Brazil. Brazil started 7 hexes from me (large map). A few turns later meet Poland. She was about 7 hexes beyond Brazil. The numbers that warn you about not settling in places were all over the best spots, I only had the antarctic tundra free and clear. I made a second city not quite that far south, and both of the other civs complained I was too close! I also was beset by barbies, it was impossible to expand or even develop my land. Improvements were being wrecked, several units were killed before I finally could clear them. Then Poland declares war just after the start of the Classical Age. And why is there a horde of Brazilian warriors milling about my capital? Oh, they are at war with me too. You'd have thought the'd say something.

Abort! By then it was 11 pm anyway, well past my bedtime.

Any word on whether the expansion will be coming to the iPad version? I see a notification at the load screen that the expansion has been released, but I don't see any way to actually buy it...

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:43 am Bought and installed...kids were in bed, wife was napping before work, so I started a game as the new India civ.

2 turns in I meet Brazil. Brazil started 7 hexes from me (large map). A few turns later meet Poland. She was about 7 hexes beyond Brazil. The numbers that warn you about not settling in places were all over the best spots, I only had the antarctic tundra free and clear.

I am curious as to size and type of map. (Also difficulty level, Emperor and above start with those extra settlers, which complicates the issue. I forget because I always use the mod that eliminates that.)

Sorry you had such a bummer of a start, though. Here's hoping that yours was a fluke rather than mine.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:05 am Any word on whether the expansion will be coming to the iPad version? I see a notification at the load screen that the expansion has been released, but I don't see any way to actually buy it...

I think that's just Civ news in general. There hasn't been any official word that they will release the expansion beyond a question in the faq saying they hope to.

My game was King level, large fractal map.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:14 pm My game was King level, large fractal map.

I wonder whether they have done better with the continent maps. That seems to be what they always use for develop let's plays, and I get the sense that that is what they focus on.

Of course, either your bad luck or my good luck could be just a fluke.

The restart is going much better, in the Medieval age (golden) now and pursing space victory.

If you are near the Mapuche, do NOT enter a Golden Age...like a moth to the flame and they WILL kick your asss.

dbemont wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:58 pm
* As I saw in one of the Let’s Plays, the early ages can be a bit of a trap, at least for players like myself. Ancient Age, you almost cannot avoid earning a Golden Age for the Classical Era, but none of the resulting bonuses is all that overwhelming an advantage. But then the bar is too high to escape a Dark Age for the Medieval, not without doing things you would not otherwise be doing. Which is to say, the ages mechanic is going to require some adjustment.

Huh. I had the opposite problem in that I started close to France, ended up at war and lost my scout, leading to an immediate dark age. I managed to come back to get a heroic age, but then failed again and am back in a dark age. I need to figure out exactly what triggers the points and what I'm doing wrong.

The loyalty mechanism is going to take some getting used to. I set up a new city (Philadelphia) away from my main cities in order to grab an oil resource. I gave them a governor, but I couldn't hold it. There were not even that many cities nearby. Two, I think in range. I was still hemorrhaging loyalty. Damn bastards.

In addition, I grabbed three cities through loyalty and in hindsight I should have let them go. I didn't have the amenities to absorb three new cities, plus my lone creation mentioned above. I think it may have contributed to losing Philadelphia. None of the four cities brought new luxuries and I wasn't able to bring new entertainment centers online quick enough to make up for it.

Alliances lead to interesting scenarios later in the game. Despite the name, I assumed the Tech, Culture...ones were just trade alliances. Nope. Germany declared war on Mapuche (my trading partner) and Boom. I automatically declared war on Germany.

Have battleships always sucked against cities? I sent a battleship to support my infantry in retaking Philly, but it was doing less than 12 damage per turn. My artillery, which was too far away and working on making Arabia suffer, hit 30-40. I've played Civ V modded a lot more than Civ VI lately, the battleships there were city killers.

I do have to say I don't remember the initial Civ VI being this much fun

gbasden wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:30 am

dbemont wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:58 pm
* As I saw in one of the Let’s Plays, the early ages can be a bit of a trap, at least for players like myself. Ancient Age, you almost cannot avoid earning a Golden Age for the Classical Era, but none of the resulting bonuses is all that overwhelming an advantage. But then the bar is too high to escape a Dark Age for the Medieval, not without doing things you would not otherwise be doing. Which is to say, the ages mechanic is going to require some adjustment.

Huh. I had the opposite problem in that I started close to France, ended up at war and lost my scout, leading to an immediate dark age. I managed to come back to get a heroic age, but then failed again and am back in a dark age. I need to figure out exactly what triggers the points and what I'm doing wrong.

The Civilopedia does have a list of what triggers points, but it is such a long list with varied numbers of points (and myriad exceptions, I think). For now, it is a tough part of the game to game. But yeah, playing the Cree with its fast-starting scout probably skewed my perceptions.

Green Man Gaming is tempting me with a 25% off coupon for Rise And Fall. Hmm. And they also have the original game plus the six non-Rise and Fall DLC for 50% off, which make it almost as cheap as buying the six DLC alone through Steam.

Potentially dumb question. I've reinstalled Civ6 and am giving it another go after several months, and I can't remember where to find a listing of my trade routes. Please let me know. Found it

Also, would it be worth it to pick up any of the non-Rise and Fall DLC if I was going to get back into Civ6 with the Rise and Fall DLC?

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:06 pm Potentially dumb question. I've reinstalled Civ6 and am giving it another go after several months, and I can't remember where to find a listing of my trade routes. Please let me know. Found it

Also, would it be worth it to pick up any of the non-Rise and Fall DLC if I was going to get back into Civ6 with the Rise and Fall DLC?

Those DLCs are pretty much just added civs -- Nubia, Australia, Indonesia, and so on. If you have any doubts about liking the game, I'd suggest waiting until you start to get tired of all the other civs, assuming you end up liking the game enough for that to happen.

So did I learn something new?

Can the other Civs buy Great People like we can, with coin/faith? I was watching the race for a Great General, and while the French had a slight lead over me, and was getting a point or two more than I was per turn. But we were still a couple of hundred points away I think, and I was waiting a couple turns to buy the General out from under her. Only it seems she recruited it somehow. So they can buy, I guess?

Baroquen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 pm So did I learn something new?

Can the other Civs buy Great People like we can, with coin/faith? I was watching the race for a Great General, and while the French had a slight lead over me, and was getting a point or two more than I was per turn. But we were still a couple of hundred points away I think, and I was waiting a couple turns to buy the General out from under her. Only it seems she recruited it somehow. So they can buy, I guess?

I believe so. I've seen great people I want suddenly disappear and granted to the AI, so my assumption has been that they can buy them out.

Is there an encampment building or maybe aerospace one that provides XP per turn?

Two of my city garrisons are leveling up slowly. They haven't been in combat and the only thing I can find the two have in common are the two districts above? I don't see anything in the Civopedia.

Maybe a Wonder that does it? One of the two has a lot of wonders.

Just won my first game post-expansion playing the alt-India civ. (King/Large/Fractal) More things going on made the turns a little more interesting, but in the end, my all-to-common strategy of going all-in on Space Race after discovering Rocketry paid off again. I'm not certain what all of the factors were, but I was getting international trade routes yielding as much as 14 manufacturing a piece. With all my trade routes (10) transferred to the capital, that was a lot of industry and space race projects were completing in 6-9 turns.

The AI does a better job with spying - twice I was delayed by spies blowing up my space port even though I had a spy guarding it. They also swiped a few artifacts from my cultural facilities. One country (Spain) was at war with me from about mid-game until the end -- it was landlocked on a different content and never threatened any of my units. I endured 2 dark ages, including the Information age (!) and if there was another age it would have been golden. I think I was gold during the Medieval age.

I had no trouble with loyalty in any of my cities, and despite nearly surrounding 2 nearby city states, none offered to join me. There were 3 emergencies that I signed on to, 2 of them paid off (through no action of my own) an one failed. Great People seemed to disappear at a faster rate, and a number of wonders were completed by the AI before I could finish.

Finally getting around to playing this after picking it up in a Humble Bundle many, many months ago. I haven't read through the thread here, but I'm not liking it at all. For reference, I've been playing the series since 2 or 3 (it's all a blur). I believe the final patched version of #4 is the best and while I've played #5 quite a bit, it didn't have that same level of fun for me. This feels like another step further away from #4 and it's just not clicking with me. It's a beautiful game - the menus, AI, animations, etc... all look incredible. But it just isn't grabbing me. I felt the same way with Beyond Earth. It's not you Sid, it's me.

I had hoped that this expansion would get people fired up about 6, but I see that the feedback didn't even last a page, and the few reactions that were posted aren't enthusiastic. I'll wait for a sale. With no hall of fame/metaverse, I don't feel very motivated to play it again.

I also liked 4 a lot, especially with that fantasy mod overhaul (what was it called?). But I could never go back to Stacks of Doom now. I like 6's depth compared to 5's simpler wargame feel, and I still think 6 has the potential to be the greatest Civ ever when they finally finish it. I gather that the latest expansion doesn't do that.

Fall From Heaven II

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:29 pm Finally getting around to playing this after picking it up in a Humble Bundle many, many months ago. I haven't read through the thread here, but I'm not liking it at all. For reference, I've been playing the series since 2 or 3 (it's all a blur). I believe the final patched version of #4 is the best and while I've played #5 quite a bit, it didn't have that same level of fun for me. This feels like another step further away from #4 and it's just not clicking with me. It's a beautiful game - the menus, AI, animations, etc... all look incredible. But it just isn't grabbing me. I felt the same way with Beyond Earth. It's not you Sid, it's me.

I am on record as being a V hater when it first came out, and basically played IV with expansions, UNTIL V came out with its last expansion. When that happened, the game eclipsed IV for me, and I haven't looked back. I never thought I would say it, loving IV as much as I did, but V + expansions is a better game (and more fun IMO). Stacks o'Doom for one, but a lot of other small details they "fixed" as well.

I also tried VI recently after buying in that Humble monthly deal, played a few hours, but like you, did not like it at all. I will of course give it the proper time investment any title in this series deserves, whenever they release the final expansion.

I maintain that this series is the best PC game (series) ever created.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:11 pm I gather that the latest expansion doesn't do that.

It's a step forward. I'm only on my second game now and have such infrequent opportunity to play that I've yet to form a strong opinion. In my first game, I did a space race rush at the end; trade was much more lucrative in terms of production and I could slap together space ship parts in less than 10 turns. So it was less of a slog.

The influence dynamic is probably the most significant change. No longer can you spam out your settlers far and wide to squat on lucrative resource sites - that's just asking for those cities to be flipped when they get boxed in by an opponent. My current game as KHAAAAAAN! I've actually assimilated a few opposing cities that encroached my borders...the second which may be start of a chain reaction since that gives me a 3rd city exerting influence on another of his cities.

The dark/normal/golden age addition mostly affects influence. Cities dangling on the frontiers might flip when you're in a dark age - the new governors can help mitigate this if you have an especially vulnerable city. During each age you can choose something - maybe great works, or recruiting great people, or building districts or buildings that give you credits toward the next age. You'll want to pick whatever seems the most easily accomplished if you want to avoid a dark age...and then adjust your game play to focus on that.

I recruited no Jesus in either game, so I can't speak to any changes in religion.

The political emergencies are interesting -- so far, it seems to be about freeing a conquered city/city state; with bling awarded to members of the pact (and for the target if they successfully hold out). An early such thing in my current game put me at war with Japan and one of his city state lackeys between my domain and his. The pact failed to reclaim the target, and Japan was insisting on a pound of flesh in return for a peace treaty. So I took out the city state, and suddenly it's Japan showing up with an olive branch in one hand and a sack of gold in the other. I accepted, because he was much superior in naval tech and after being at war for so long, my cities all had some catching up to do.

The changes offer a lot more variety, and does compel you to switch focus several times throughout the game. Over all, it's more entertaining. Wish I could spend more minutes at it though.

I bought and played R&F when it first came out. I think I got a civ to about the early middle ages before I abandoned the game. VI as a whole is such a wrong step and negative CIV iteration for me. I am not gonna nitpick, and am glad folks have found joy in it. But I've stopped playing and dont intend on starting back up any time soon.

Freyland wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:58 am Fall From Heaven II

That's it. I put in many many hours before finally realizing that the AI had no idea how to play that mod.

I'll eventually return to Civ 6 after R&F goes on sale. I've already beaten the game at least once as each included civ, and the sameness from game to game bored me by the end of that. If R&F breaks up that sameness that's an incentive to give it another whirl.

The greatest thing about FFH2 was the difference between civs. They each required unique strategies.

I agree the ai couldn't manage the magic system nearly as well as the player, but it was still a fantastic experience. I miss playing it.

You know what honey, don't join a city-state emergency pact on your doorstep and then tell me to move my troops.

I wondered if anybody was still playing; the expansion seemed to land with a thud. It's on sale right now, but $22.49 isn't cheap enough to tempt me. I'd pay $10, maybe $15 tops.

Still my go-to game, I enjoy it more than anything else that has come out in quite a long time.

However, I almost never take a game beyond the Industrial Age. For me, the early game is extremely entertaining, no matter how many times I play. And my "win" condition is "when empire is secure and feels beyond attack and it doesn't really matter what I build next."

Played this way, the game never seems to get old for me.

Yeah, I struggle to maintain interest after the early game. I find I'm overwhelmed with options without clear advantages.

I found this video that shows the content coming in the expansion. Very helpful. So far, this looks like a great expansion that the devs really focused on. I like what I see!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ8XRJNitCE

I don't like the world congress in Civ V and I hate the idea of natural disasters. Not sure if this is going to be a sale for me. Depends on whether these things are options or not.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:11 pm I still think 6 has the potential to be the greatest Civ ever when they finally finish it. I gather that the latest expansion doesn't do that.

That's how I felt in 2016 and then I saw the nickel and dime DLC coming and I'm here with the base game, thinking I'm a long way from the sale that gets me to play again.