Octopus Overlords

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:42 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:11 pm I still think 6 has the potential to be the greatest Civ ever when they finally finish it. I gather that the latest expansion doesn't do that.

That's how I felt in 2016 and then I saw the nickel and dime DLC coming and I'm here with the base game, thinking I'm a long way from the sale that gets me to play again.

I think I paid full price for everything released and in terms of value, I think it's still less than one penny per hour. I'm open to hearing about other entertainment options that are better values, though.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:42 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:11 pm I still think 6 has the potential to be the greatest Civ ever when they finally finish it. I gather that the latest expansion doesn't do that.

That's how I felt in 2016 and then I saw the nickel and dime DLC coming and I'm here with the base game, thinking I'm a long way from the sale that gets me to play again.

The post you quoted was nearly a year ago, and I still haven't played Civ6 again since then or bought the first expansion. Maybe they'll bundle it with the new one. I do like its emphasis on building and diplomacy. It might take another year, but I'll get around to it eventually.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:53 pm
I think I paid full price for everything released and in terms of value, I think it's still less than one penny per hour. I'm open to hearing about other entertainment options that are better values, though.

I'm with you. In terms of value for money the Civ series puts everything else in my library to shame.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:53 pm I think I paid full price for everything released and in terms of value, I think it's still less than one penny per hour. I'm open to hearing about other entertainment options that are better values, though.

The thing is you have to enjoy or be relaxed or distracted or whatever. When I turned Civ VI for to wait for it might become I had already played most of the Civs and collection a good chunk of the achievements available at the time. I probably would have done them all but some map bugs and some crashes from the Japanese Civ made me set the game down early. I had no urge to add Australia to the mix for another $6 and then whatever the other DLC released was around the same time. The begins the feedback loop. The next time I look at jumping in The first DLC combined come down to $10 but there is now $24 in additional minor DLC etc...

It is what it is. I got enjoyment out of the gate much higher for VI than I did for V and most especially whatever their space game was called. VI did a lot of new interesting things and it felt much more epic than did V, which felt very claustrophobic for world sized 4x. I will need to remind myself when they move on to CIV VII how the last three purchases went before I shell out $60. That's not to say I won't shell out $60. I'll just need to remind myself why I'd be doing it and where I'll be six months after release when the first DLC comes around.

I waited on this one until it was $20. I can probably wait on 7 a couple of three years too.

I pretty much only buy into two franchises these days, Civ and Gal Civ,. The only time I wouldn't buy something right off the bat is if I happen to be fully engaged in the other of the two.

Torfish wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:42 pm I found this video that shows the content coming in the expansion. Very helpful. So far, this looks like a great expansion that the devs really focused on. I like what I see!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ8XRJNitCE

I watched that video and was very impressed with all the new content. Then I saw the price... ouch! I never did pick up Rise & Fall, just the base game. I guess I'll be waiting till the next Steam Holiday Sale for a Platinum Edition or at least a bundle that will let me get all the DLC without having to buy the base game again.

Yeah it's pricey, noting that I bought it from greenmangaming for $31.

I was considering entry into Civ VI yesterday, but when I noted that it was originally released in October 2016 and now 27 months later, it's still full price - plus all the expansions - I passed.

I like Civ games. I really do. Just not enough for a $150 entry point - the Digital Deluxe cost plus the last two expansions.

It goes down to $12-15 during a sale. Just hold tight for a bit. It was $15 on the IPad over Xmas and all the DLC was FREE but you had to log in on a daily basis to get the free DLC. Also note that Rise and Fall has not been released on the IPad. Also always check isthereanydeal.com for the cheapest prices available at the moment.

There's a new multiplayer mode in the expansion that allows you to play with friends through the cloud. A new cloud service within the game that will manage each player's saves and let the next person know when it's their turn.

Looks like an alternative 'off-line' option than the current multiplayer mode. Probably something that I would be interested in because I can't spend hours playing one game at a time.

Yeah adding in asynchronous multiplayer is great. AoW3 has it. More strategy games should do this.

T wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:16 am Yeah adding in asynchronous multiplayer is great. AoW3 has it. More strategy games should do this.

There have been 3rd party tools to do this going back multiple versions, but it's great to have it officially part of the game.

How is the AI these days?

Freyland wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:18 pm How is the AI these days?

If your enjoyment of the game depends on other civs being able to conduct military campaigns, don't waste your time or money.

Even when you get flashes of effective troop movement -- seems like usually barbarians -- there is no threat of losing because the AI can be so dependably exploited in so many ways.

Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:47 amIt goes down to $12-15 during a sale.

Picked up the Delux for $23, which gives me everything except the two expansions. I'm okay with that.

New patch dropped.

Might be of particular interest for some of you:

Front End: Hall of Fame – Victory and defeat tracking with detailed statistics and graphs for each.

Probably the least expected change:

Alternate skin for Scout unit that replaces the Scout’s dog with three cats. Available to players who have linked their 2K Account.

Full change list here:
https://steamcommunity.com/games/289070 ... 1889076456

Well dammit. I told Firaxis (in a survey) that I would not play Civ6 again until they added a build queue and HoF...and now there they are. I think it's time to install Civ on this PC and take it for a spin after I finish Xcom2 WotC.

Still not buying the expansions until they're cheaper, though. The first one is getting close.

Also, commenters say that this patch broke wonder construction (they all require 999+ resource points and never finish building), so I think we can assume that another will be coming out quickly.

This patch broke DX12 mode with my install.

I didn't have much time to mess with it tonight but in my quick research it appears to be a common problem.

Yeah, it crashed on DX12 mode for me too, though I'm not sure if I ever used that in the past. /shrug

I've started and discarded a few games until I found one that got off to an interesting start. National disasters are interesting, though haven't really had an impact on the round, yet. It seems like I'm off to a good start with 4 or 5 healthy cities, though according to the victory conditions, I'm lagging behind in every category. We'll see if I leapfrog the others to win the round. It's only Prince level so I'm expecting I can swing it.

Fun so far, but I was itching to play a little Civ even before the DLC dropped.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:48 pm Also, commenters say that this patch broke wonder construction (they all require 999+ resource points and never finish building), so I think we can assume that another will be coming out quickly.

Only for current games not started in Gathering Storm (IME) — and after about 25 turns, wonders reverted back to how they worked before the update. Starting a new Gathering Storm game, the wonders are working fine.

I've not noticed any issues with either DX12 or Wonders, but I've been playing all Gathering Storm. I'm enjoying it quite a bit so far. Starting next to a volcano has been … interesting. I like the new Civs and some of the new wonders are nice as well. I've only had a few hours to play so far, though.

Well, I've gotten sucked into a round of Gathering Storm. I chose a random leader, so I'm playing Teddy Roosevelt and not a new leader, but that's ok, as I don't think I've won a round with him. I've got the Japanese, the Norwegians and the Scots around me, but none of troubling at the moment. I'm still picking off Barbarians, and there are a few leaders I haven't met yet. Natural disasters aren't a big deal, though I only have the scale set to 2. At this point, I'm still just expanding, and building, and haven't really thought about endgame and victory conditions yet. I'm leading on points, but victory condition leaders are varied. My map is rather strange. Lots of rainforests, and lots of mountain ranges threading the continent. Fun though; definitely was a one-more-turn session.

I've noticed a lot of mountains in my Continents maps as well (I've started two Gathering Storm games). Most definitely a different map algorithm.

I'm on my first game and started with the Incas. Definitely more mountains in my game, but I thought it was because I was playing a civ that takes advantage of mountains.

I've noticed and like the little additions of the UI with updated report screens and great persons screen looks better.

I settled my third city next to a volcano. Will see what happens when it erupts. The surrounding land was too good to pass up.

I'm loving the game after 100 turns, but I already loved it before the expansion.

I also started with the Inca. Extremely powerful!

I've watched a let's play of the Maori, and boy that looks like a fun experience to start off a game. I really think there are some fun "new-Civ" ideas the designers aren't afraid to try out with this expansion.

I won my first game (Poundmaker) with a diplo victory on Prince. I was on my typical Space Race with Culture-backup victory track (there's a lot more play at the end of the game with the future era), but basically steamrollered the Diplomatic Victory in 5 UN meetings (I failed to gain my diplo point in one meeting because of unexpectedly savvy opponent who actually threw a vote on a lagging civ just to push their combined vote ahead of me, however there are Civics at the end of the track which also provide Diplo points). I'm not convinced I won't turn this victory condition off in the future (it was pretty anticlimactic, and capped the game before I was to the end of the tech tree), but I'm glad I did it once.

My current Teddy game is wrapping up, and looking like a culture victory. Diplomacy is probably my backup, but it's early there, with 2 pts each for me and Rome. Science is always a fallback too, though those techs aren't in play yet. Japan is throwing its religion around, but I don't think they can win before I do.

Definitely want to play my next round with one of the new civs and see what happens.

Teddy round is complete. Culture victory. Rock bands helped at the end, and were fun to use.

And the Hall of Fame is a nice touch. I like the rankings screen (or whatever it's called). But on the overview screen, there's like a "check-up" progress section, where you can see which victory conditions you've achieved, and which leaders you've led to a win. That will have me trying to check off more of them, because I'm obsessive like that.

I might turn off Culture victory next time, just so I'm forced into trying something different. Or - I might hand pick a leader who's made for a different victory condition. Not sure yet.

Z-Corn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:41 pm This patch broke DX12 mode with my install.

I didn't have much time to mess with it tonight but in my quick research it appears to be a common problem.

I was able to play again in DX12 mode when I turned off anti aliasing within the game's options menu.

Seems sloppy to me.

I did have to abandon my game in progress because Wonders remained broken with the 999+ turns to complete bug.

Sloppy.

Baroquen wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:48 pm And the Hall of Fame is a nice touch. I like the rankings screen (or whatever it's called). But on the overview screen, there's like a "check-up" progress section, where you can see which victory conditions you've achieved, and which leaders you've led to a win. That will have me trying to check off more of them, because I'm obsessive like that.

Does the HoF record your score even if you use mods? I seem to remember Civ V would not include any games with mods. I like to change a few things ( remove the cap on XP earned from barbarians, for example) but I would hate to put hours into a game only to find out at the end that it "didn't count".

I don't have the DLC but I've noticed most of my mods saying they're incompatible but when you click on the mod descriptions they say to ignore the warning.

Exodor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:53 pm

Baroquen wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:48 pm And the Hall of Fame is a nice touch. I like the rankings screen (or whatever it's called). But on the overview screen, there's like a "check-up" progress section, where you can see which victory conditions you've achieved, and which leaders you've led to a win. That will have me trying to check off more of them, because I'm obsessive like that.

Does the HoF record your score even if you use mods? I seem to remember Civ V would not include any games with mods. I like to change a few things ( remove the cap on XP earned from barbarians, for example) but I would hate to put hours into a game only to find out at the end that it "didn't count".

Good question. I haven't re-installed mods since the new DLC, so I don't have an answer.

GS game 2 has ground to a halt for the moment. Playing as Tomyris, and quickly took over Canada on my home continent. Took my army across the sea, and got bogged down in a war with Lautaro and rebellions. Am going to have to revert and try again.

Will probably be trying a hot-seat multi-player game with my kid(s) soon. We'll see how that goes.

Baroquen wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:53 pm

Exodor wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:53 pm

Baroquen wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:48 pm And the Hall of Fame is a nice touch. I like the rankings screen (or whatever it's called). But on the overview screen, there's like a "check-up" progress section, where you can see which victory conditions you've achieved, and which leaders you've led to a win. That will have me trying to check off more of them, because I'm obsessive like that.

Does the HoF record your score even if you use mods? I seem to remember Civ V would not include any games with mods. I like to change a few things ( remove the cap on XP earned from barbarians, for example) but I would hate to put hours into a game only to find out at the end that it "didn't count".

Good question. I haven't re-installed mods since the new DLC, so I don't have an answer.

GS game 2 has ground to a halt for the moment. Playing as Tomyris, and quickly took over Canada on my home continent. Took my army across the sea, and got bogged down in a war with Lautaro and rebellions. Am going to have to revert and try again.

Will probably be trying a hot-seat multi-player game with my kid(s) soon. We'll see how that goes.

Comments on the AI? I mean during the war, not referring to your kids.

Nothing that impressive, but I was only playing a round on Prince difficulty. I've heard some positive comments about the AI on higher levels, but no personal experience yet. It took advantage of the mistakes I was making, but it didn't feel like it was forcing me into bad play.

The AI for me in early wars has been okay, probably on par with other Civ games. I like that there aren't any stacks of doom, and that city assaults require some effort.

I've been reading early-game strategies, and a lot of people seem to advocate a quick "Slinger" expansion where you build a lot of fast attackers and them immediately knock out one of the nearest AI opponents before they ever get off the ground, giving yourself a second "Capital" city very early.

I've read that the AI can be easy to exploit, but am trying not to find out too much. I was mostly suffering early game from "Can't Keep Up" in Prince, but that's probably just adapting to the new game and it's quirks.

Freyland wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:44 pm Comments on the AI? I mean during the war, not referring to your kids.

I played a couple of games over the weekend myself. Only ended up in one war (started next to Montezuma, so it was inevitable), playing on King, and the AI did not impress as a tactical genius. I mean, he did have the sense to escort his siege unit with a swordsman, but (aside from only bringing one siege unit in the first place) there was a little too much shuffling of units laterally and a failure to concentrate his fire on single targets. Despite his starting a surprise war, he never even made it to the walls of any of my cities. So: Civ is still not a good war game simulation, I don't think.

I also saw the AI do some unwise things with regard to city placement: a couple of Civs that started north of me decided to place isolated settlements far to the south, which the Loyalty system quickly turned into Free Cities and they were subsequently absorbed into another AI's civ. I mean, sure, I had expanded aggressively and penned those Civs into their northern corner very quickly, so they had nowhere else to go, but all same, building settlements that they clearly couldn't support just seems... silly.

- Ash

Civ's AI's have always been shit at tactics. Gathering Storm has not improved things in the least. (I haven't noticed a step backwards from previous Civ 6's either, though.)

I basically always win at Prince level (the highest level without the AI getting any numerical tweaks, as I recall) without doing any micromanagement. This is not particularly impressive (in terms of the AI's quality) as I'm up against roughly 7-11 opponents in the game. But as we say in poker, it's always more fun to win. So I keep it at Prince.

As Paingod points out, you have to play in an exploitative manner to beat the higher levels. For instance only under unique circumstances would you actually try to construct a Wonder yourself as the AI tends to have a lead on you for the precursor unlocking, and likely has a production advantage over you for the actual construction. However, it's really nice when the AI builds them for you (which involves you taking advantage of the terrible tactical AI...).

For whatever reason AI has never been a cornerstone of the Civ franchise. If you're looking to be impressed by your opposition in a 4X game, this is probably not the experience you're after. Unless/until the fanbase holds the developers' feet to the fires over this issue, I don't expect that to ever change significantly.

I've noticed a somewhat inconsequential Wonder issue with Gathering Storm. The Colossus can be completed by multiple leaders (I assume that they can complete construction without getting kicked even once someone else has finished the wonder).

So it sounds like my standard push for Wonders early on isn't all that useful anymore. Just let the AI hassle with them and focus on expansion, conquest, and ultimately get the Wonders through military superiority?