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The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:23 am

RELEASE DATE:
Apr 17, 2018

That explains it.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:36 am

I only played that section like a million times, so I can't remember who you're talking about.

I know on the second playthrough the first couple of guys are actually really tough unless you're smart enough to realize all your old gear is in your inventory, unequipped.

It sounds like the dude is just part of the tutorial. If that's the case, maybe he's only tough until you "do" whatever the tutorial is trying to teach you. I have no idea. Maybe Coop remembers.

edit: Coop already has you covered. Good stuff.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:39 am

Now I really want to play it again just to see but I can't seem to pull away from other games.

Also, if anyone didn't hear, The Surge 2 is in the works and supposed to hit next year.
-Coop

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:24 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:36 am
I only played that section like a million times, so I can't remember who you're talking about.
...
It sounds like the dude is just part of the tutorial. If that's the case, maybe he's only tough until you "do" whatever the tutorial is trying to teach you. I have no idea. Maybe Coop remembers.
It didn't matter how much I blocked him. He just wails on me until I'm dead. I suppose I could try timing blocks better and hitting back. Each time I die I'm only risking like 600 scrap.

However, I didn't notice him there until I had gone a ways into the factory and then backtracked to explore once I figured out how to jump and break stuff. I mean, if I stood in the place I woke up from at the very beginning, he could have been the 4th or 5th thing I fought. There's only a handful of hover drones between him and that spot, and he doesn't "activate" until you get near him after going around a little hidden corner into a plane fuselage.

I'm going to try and get a little stronger, and a little more skilled (personally) and try him again.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:26 am

If you managed to get him down to 2% already he will likely be trivial after you defeat the first boss, which you should be close to taking on. Note, bosses do not respawn in this game so once they are down, they are down for good (at least until new game+).
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:32 am

Oh, and I've just got to say: Jesus, OMG, WTFBBQ in regards to the intro cut scene after selecting your armor type.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:59 am

On those white space suits ... very beatable. Just very hard for a newbie.

After getting my staff up in skill a few notches and finding another Implant, I was able to scrape by and kill him, salvaging his arm. Then I proceeded to farm him. It took a while, but all my relevant gear is now MkII and I'm trouncing everything I come across handily - even the second white spacesuit I found. Him (and his brother near the miniboss) are the only things dropping MkII salvage in this area that I've seen.

The gear he drops doesn't seem great unless I'm not understanding stats. I think the Helm is the only "Neat" thing, giving -50% to Drone Power requirements. I'm not sure how good that is yet. The arms grant +40% Impact, but -4% attack speed. The legs are High stability, +10% run stamina, and -5% Dodge stamina use. The torso... I can't remember. This is all from memory and may be faulty.

I'm currently using the arms with the rest of my Lynx gear, though I have everything built and could put it all on. I look like a doof, but I stagger things easily. I'm considering going back to the Lynx arms just because of the increased attack speed. The difference should be something like 14% faster between dropping the penalty and adding a bonus.

I really like his arm weapon, it's the most damaging thing in my inventory - 62 damage, 60% energy gain - sometimes ending basic zombies in a couple hits, and it has an awesome block/counter that hits twice with one click. It's slow, but very effective.

My favorite, though, is still the staff (Reinforced Pipe). I love the whirling combos that thing whips off. It's just very very satisfying.

Controls on the KB/Mouse setup are finger-ninja hard sometimes. Doing things like ducking/countering are too difficult to pull off and I don't do it at all. I hope the 'advanced' control stuff isn't required to move deeper into the game. I've gotten pretty good at blocking, countering, finishing, and dodging. I am working hard to try and get my combo timing down. Not easy, but it seems to be more of a cadence to the clicking than anything else; staying calm.

I don't know if I screwed the pooch on that first miniboss. I killed it on my first attempt (having accidentally become privvy to it's weaknesses scanning this thread for help before) - but it didn't drop a coin that I could find. Instead i found an Iron Maus. I don't know if that was there as loot in a corner and I just missed the coin, or if the coin was replaced by that. He died very awkwardly in a corner and I had trouble getting around his body to look for anything.

After killing him, I was short on time for the night and started exploring the dark basement - blowing through the maze a little too fast I think. I'll be going back through a couple times tonight and double-checking all the corners, boxes, and alleys I can find down there. It's handy that every enemy has a glowing light or three on them to highlight them as dangerous in the dark before my flashlights find them.
Last edited by Paingod on Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:08 am

Ducking/countering might be the hardest thing to do in game. The risk/reward is out of balance too, so I eventually stopped trying. Even with a controller it just didn't make sense risking major damage and the start of an enemy combo when a full block or dodge was much less risky and more effective.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:23 am

I've noticed that my scrap multiplier keeps increasing as my kill chain with finishing moves increases. That's kind of neat.

Question: What triggers more healing buffs to drop into my inventory? Like if I used a 90 point heal, I have 2 left. Then a while later I notice I'm back up to 3 but haven't died or visited the MedBay to replenish them.

I do use the "Heal on Execution" implant and love it. A few perfect fights can recover me entirely from a bad one without using any healing.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:15 am

I abused the first area so hard that I had no idea what to do when I got to the second area.

That first one - down to a precise science. I at one point I was walking around with 70,000 scrap in my inventory and a 3.00 kill streak multiplier. Then I spent it all and went to find PAX. I died. I tried again. I died. I looked at what I was supposed to do, and really I just needed to be more patient and dodge more. I tried to get the PAX v2.0 weapon, but somehow failed even though I never deliberately tried to get him to hit himself with missiles. I still killed him on the third try using my Staff, but didn't get the better weapon option.

I get to the second area and it seems that enemies are now basically immune to my staggering attacks and speed, breaking my combos regularly. Fully geared RHINO wearers are really annoying. Time to learn the game all over again. :P

All of my gear is already MkII and my Core is at 44 power. Despite the wide array of weapons I have available now, I'm still pushing the Reinforced Pipe (Staff) and Codename: Engelhart (Single-Rigged) as my two best offensive choices, but I love the way the Yosuke Butterfly (Twin-Rigged) animates; I feel like Wolverine.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:30 am

That pax weapon is crazy good at that point. Too good, really, although as you noticed, it can be hit or miss getting it due to some randomness and bad luck. If he stops beside a wall to fire his rockets he'll almost always hit himself.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:34 am

The reinforced pipe is a beginner weapon that loses its usefulness early.

There are other pole weapons that'll bring back the effectiveness of the weapon class, but I vaguely think it's not for awhile.

Keep an eye out for the security dudes. They often carry a more powerful than normal staff weapon.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:59 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:34 am
Keep an eye out for the security dudes. They often carry a more powerful than normal staff weapon.
I was going to mention that as well. Those guys can be a bitch to take down, but maybe not so bad if you are already all kitted out in MK II.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:01 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:30 am
That pax weapon is crazy good at that point. Too good, really, although as you noticed, it can be hit or miss getting it due to some randomness and bad luck. If he stops beside a wall to fire his rockets he'll almost always hit himself.
Sounds like I'd need to do a backup save before attempting him on NG+, which I certainly plan to do unless I get completely worn out on this.

Combat is simply badass. Very fluid, very brutal. I don't run past anything when I'm exploring or respawning. I demolish my way everywhere... :twisted:
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:34 am
Keep an eye out for the security dudes. They often carry a more powerful than normal staff weapon.
I'm constantly on the lookout for anything I haven't acquired yet. If they have it, I always rip their Right Arm off first and then see if I can farm them for other parts later.

The speed of the staff was what let me get through PAX on the third try. On my second attempt, I was using my best weapon - but the animations were too slow for me to dodge stomping attacks.

Now that I have a drone, I'm tempted to put on the -50% Drone Energy space helmet from the first area, but by the gods the thing looks hideous by itself. I'm one Core power from being able to wear the entire space suit for the set bonus... but I don't know if I want to.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:02 am

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:59 am
GreenGoo wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:34 am
Keep an eye out for the security dudes. They often carry a more powerful than normal staff weapon.
I was going to mention that as well. Those guys can be a bitch to take down, but maybe not so bad if you are already all kitted out in MK II.
I did bump into 4 of them, and found them ... not much harder than anything else, really. I died the first time I agrro'd both at once, then used my drone to pull just one, but ran when his friend came after the melee began. Then I tried again and was able to finish him before his friend joined in and collected his bits too. I didn't plan ahead, though, and only acquired three of the four armor designs. On my first kill, I was so excited to get a new weapon that I didn't care too much about his arm being unarmored. Now I'm regretting it. They don't respawn.

I'm well into the second area, but haven't played in a couple of days due to life. The RHINO zombies aren't all that bad now, I often kill them without getting hurt. The Scarab wierdos are thankfully dumb as bricks and it's easy enough to get just one or two to chase me from that group of 5 - and also a good source for MkII armor components. The guards were harder than zombies, but nowhere near as hard as the Angel armor in the 1st area (Cutting Edge DLC, white spacesuits). The hardest thing so far have been the 6 Bloodhound Bots in the upper area; I did collect 5 of their 6 tails, so that's nice - but I had to respawn everything to heal myself between fighting them. No way I could do two back to back... just one gobbled up all my healing (including Energy heals).

Now that I have an Implant that lets me see health and stability, I can easily tell why I've been preferring the PAX blade. It staggers the RHINO zombies in two hits, as opposed to the Staff's 3 or 4 hits, so they hardly ever get to attack. That stagger is what keeps them from hitting me. If I wanted to use the staff more, I'd have to 1,2,3 dodge 1,2,3 finish - instead of 1,2,3 finish. Maybe I could use more "Impact" powerful arms, but the attack speed combined with high damage is working for me. I do love the staff animations, though. :think: The Reinforced Pipe, according to a Wiki, has 30% energy gain and Medium impact - where the flashy new staff from the Guards has Low impact and 10% energy gain. The guard staff has better damage scaling and base damage, but that's meaningless if I can't stagger anything and it takes forever for my energy to move up. The Twin-Rigged weapons are laughable for fighting anything with high stability. One-Handed has the same issues that Staves do, and Heavy-Duty hits with a lot of impact, but maybe too much as enemies seem to break chain staggers (I never even see the bar drop, it's just always 100% full).

I'm really digging that combat actually has some intelligent design in terms of putting together a style that works for you.

Despite having full suits for everything I've bumped into so far (except those Guards), I still run around in the Lynx. I like both the Sprint and Dodge stamina reduction in conjunction with the attack speed boost for the full set. The Scarab might be a close second, but when I put it on I feel like I'm moving in molasses. It does look the coolest so far, though.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:09 am

Being able to see stability is new.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:14 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:09 am
Being able to see stability is new.
It's always been there for me... :wink:

The implant is called an Omni-Audit and I found it in the second area. I can't recall where, but it wasn't too far in. I had it sitting in my inventory for a long while before I decided to double-check my implants and make sure I was using the best ones I had. It replaces the Medical Audit (See Enemy Health) and lets you see both Health and Stability. It's been priceless to be able to know that just one more hit will stagger an enemy so they won't hit me first. It also leads me to wonder if chain-staggering is glitched as some enemies still hit me through that when I'm using the Heavy weapon, or maybe there's just a cap on how many successive staggers you can perform. :confusion-shrug:

Ah: On staggering, from a Steam thread. It explains why my chain staggers failed.
There's also a "rage mode" in this game. If you stagger an enemy multiple times, he will enter "rage mode" (flashing poise bar) and will become immune to staggering for a few seconds.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:13 pm

Yeah, my point is it didn't exist when I played. At least I'm 99% sure it didn't.

Anything is possible I guess.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:22 pm

Yeah I am pretty sure we never saw that back in our day.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:28 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:22 pm
Yeah I am pretty sure we never saw that back in our day.
Sounds like more reason to replay... :wink:

It may have come with "A Walk In The Park" DLC. The Cutting Edge DLC doesn't say anything about implants, nor dos Fire & Ice. The Park does mention new implants, though, but I'm not seeing a list. It does look like it adds more implant slots for NG+ and/or NG++, though.

I don't know if the DLC applies itself mid-game - I didn't buy it until a couple days ago. If that's the case, I wonder if I missed anything in the first area, before I bought it.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:48 pm

Paingod wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:28 pm
coopasonic wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:22 pm
Yeah I am pretty sure we never saw that back in our day.
Sounds like more reason to replay... :wink:
Once I tire of Conan perhaps. I want to get back in shape for The Surge 2 next year anyway.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:11 pm

Out of curiosity, what weapon categories did others prefer?

I'm squarely on Single-Rigged as the most potent, but Staves as the most fun - so I try and alternate.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:44 pm

I think for most of the game I stuck with staves primarily for the range, but it has been a long time so I don't really remember.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:50 pm

I think I played through the game once for every weapon type.

As far as preferences, it depended on what stage of the game I was at and what boss weapon I had just picked up. As with coop, I can barely remember any of the details. I think the single-rig was the best generic use weapon. I used the heavy for the challenge, because if you messed up you couldn't recover quickly enough and got dinged. Of course if you combo'd with it would destroy things. My least liked weapon type might have been the dual-rig. It had almost no stagger effect and the speed didn't make up for the lack of damage imo. The spider's dual-rig was fun for awhile since it lit things on fire. The staff allowed you to start your combo with a poke, which was great because it was very safe. If it didn't land, you stopped your combo and were still at good range, and if it landed, you went straight into your combo. It was almost broken in that respect since it was the least risky weapon for combo openers.

Unrelated, but since we've got coop's attention, coop, have you tried Nioh? If so, whatcha think?

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:58 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:50 pm
Unrelated, but since we've got coop's attention, coop, have you tried Nioh? If so, whatcha think?
I started it on PS4 and was having a lot of fun with it, but then picked up the complete edition when it was released on PC. I really enjoyed it finishing it in around 60 hours on PC. I tried some of the extra content and it wasn't really worth it in my opinion. The combat is faster than Dark Souls, more like Bloodborne. It is not a set of continuous areas like pretty much every souls-like. It is broken up into smaller areas with missions for each area with specific rewards. It also has a bunch of other stuff going on that is too much to describe in the wrong thread.

Thread about it (in which you posted):
http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... h#p2525398
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:12 pm

Thanks. 60 hours is pretty good!

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:12 am

Huh (on weapons). I should probably reconsider my "Universal Opener" of a powerslide/slash with any weapon. It puts me into immediate melee range and that ruins the range advantage of the staff. I learned that it was an easy way to soften up LYNX zombies and have used it on everything else since then.

I picked up a new staff before the end of the second area. Still doesn't beat the Reinforced Pipe - just for energy generation. That's the drawback to staves as far as I can tell. I can learn to work around the lighter damage, but I use Energy for healing and finishers (more healing, parts). The Single-Rigged PAX is still the best all-around I can find. High Stagger, Low Speed, High Scaling, 70% energy generation.

I did go into the CREO World expansion last night. It's ... different. Lots of big enemies lurking in dark corners, including OGRE & MANTIS units, with lots of animatronics wandering around (who gave these things laser beams??). The OGREs are not to be trifled with - they hit for over 100 damage, and are hard to stagger before they hit me - so I open with a slide/slash, then immediately dodge back, and rush back in to finish after they swing. MANTIS units aren't much harder than LYNX zombies, but move a little faster. The Animatronics are weird, but good for loot drops as they have blue bodies/arms/legs that can be popped off for MkII loot drops. I'm probably 1/2 way through this zone and feeling good about my progress.

At one point last night I had farmed up enough in CREO World that I had over 70,000 scrap and a 3.0 multiplier. I gave that up to bump my Core up to 54 and check my Impant status, which I haven't done since the middle of the 2nd area. All of the equipment I have except a couple heads and a couple torsos are all MkII now.

The MANTIS armor isn't a perfect successor to the LYNX, but it's more defense and doesn't have any attack penalties and adds 20% per arm to my Impact, along with +8% damage vs. Armored, which I usually aim at for scrap/finishers. Plus I think it looks cooler than the SCARAB armor. Suit bonus: Injectables cost 25% less energy - and I like using the Healing Matrix injectable.

I think I actually need to go back to the 2nd area (if I can?!) since I never fought a boss there. I just found a train and it looked like the 'natural' progression point... so after a little poking around, I took it. I went looking for info because it seemed strange to leave an area without beating a boss, and the Wiki seems to say that I managed to miss a path down to a Toxic Waste area where the boss lives. Odd that I could continue without beating them.

I did discover that you can accidentally kill the NPC's in your base while testing out weapons and they won't respawn. When I discovered that I seriously considered restarting, but figured it might be best if I just don't kill them on my NG+ run. :roll:

A tip from a Reddit thread, regarding the question I had about why my healing implants are refilling.
...everytime you fill that blue background on Tech Scraps, it refills some of your healing items. I'm not 100% sure how it works, but I think you get 1 healing item per implant. I'm carrying two implants and I get two healing items whenever that happens.
Another interesting bit.
Energy damage is best for pure robots minus bosses(I havent confirmed that) I have a Volatile Specter that you get in the 1st area the game that does tons of damage to robots while other weapons don't
Makes sense, and I'd never have thought of it. I thought weapons just did damage - period. I now wonder if Flame weapons do extra to "blue" fleshy body parts, like Energy does more damage to Robotic enemies. It might help explain all the weapon variations and why "new" weapons seem weaker than "old" ones - because I'm not using them correctly. I'll have to experiment.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:12 pm

I considered buying whatever DLC the game had, and while I enjoyed every minute I played, I'm not paying 13 bucks for some side missions or another $2.50 for 3 new sets of armor (+3 new weapons).

That's the summer sale price.

On the plus side, I see The Surge 2 is in the works.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:06 am

GreenGoo wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:12 pm
I considered buying whatever DLC the game had, and while I enjoyed every minute I played, I'm not paying 13 bucks for some side missions or another $2.50 for 3 new sets of armor (+3 new weapons).

That's the summer sale price.

On the plus side, I see The Surge 2 is in the works.
Honestly, the DLC area isn't bad compared to the rest of the game I've seen. It's open-air, and the enemies are relatively normal in difficulty. It could have been better if it was added as a challenge instead of a waypoint between areas 2 and 3. I haven't finished it - I got distracted by Darkest Dungeon last night, but plan to get back to The Surge tonight if the heat doesn't flatten me first.

I did find my way back to the second area. I still need to search around for a way I missed so I can get down to the boss. I read that after I gave the staff to the woman near the train station, I was supposed to backtrack and go a new way that opens up. I haven't seen that and need to clear the level again to find it.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:08 am

So last night I dumped another three hours into the game.

I returned to Stage 2 from CREO World and explored for a while before finding a lone stairway down that I had overlooked before. In following that, I was able to get down to continue the adventure. Having capped everything I needed, I walked through the enemies there pretty easily (and in hindsight, I should return and make sure I didn't miss any weapons). I collected a full suit of Liquidator, but it's inferior to the Mantis suit I had on.

The place is a toxic maze, but not bad. I did find the boss I had missed. Man, I didn't "miss" it. It was a pain in the ass. I wasn't content just killing it. That would be too easy. I had to get the v2.0 weapon - only received by taking off all six legs. It took several attempts to pull it off, and in the end there was a relatively easy method I discovered.
Spoiler:
Using the PAX, I'm hitting for 104 damage per regular swing. Each leg takes two hits to bring it to a knee, and two hits to remove it in Stage 1. However, they start sparking when they've been hit so I can tell which I haven't hit. You don't have to rip a leg off when it falls over, and instead I used the opportunity to hit other legs. I "warmed up" each of the 6 legs so they were all sparking before I removed any of them. Powerslide in, slash, dodge out. Powerslide in, slash, dodge out. Over and over. Then as I removed the first three legs, the remaining three were easier to remove with a single swing. That was the trick, though, and I did it by exploiting a pillar in the room, a little alcove on the right side of the room as you enter. Firebug is too big to fit back there and will spin at you and stall on the other side of the pillar if you orient it correctly by running across the room and darting around the pillar. After that, it's almost trivial to simply target a leg you haven't removed and wait for the attacks to slow down to a point where you can emerge to slash at it and hack it off. Rinse, repeat.
With Firebug down, I finally spent the 65,000 Tech Scrap I had been toting around and upgraded all the armor and weapons I hadn't yet. I'm still a few shy of having everything at MkII, but will probably get there before I'm done with CREO World. I'm mentally preparing myself for the time when I will start finding MkIII scrap and will -not- be upgrading everything again. Getting it all to the same level once is enough to satisfy my OCD and gives me a goal while I farm for scrap to make my Core enhancements. That may end up being my long term goal for as much Scrap as I need to power my Core to 85, though (the minimum to open every Nanite container).

I did go back to Stage 1 after getting my core to 55 Energy, and unlocked the Nanites there. I could have sworn there was another unlock there, but couldn't find it and will need to check a Wiki for info. It was probably a 70 and I won't be able to use it anyway for a while. I also moved back on to CREO world now that I know where Stage 3's train is. I seem to be able to move freely between areas, all the way back to Stage 1. That's nice.

It's mighty tedious, farming for scrap, but I see all these things that need 70 or 75 Core Power and I don't want to neglect getting them in my first run if I can help it. It's not hard to get 40,000 scrap - it just takes time, but that gets faster as my multiplier sits around 3.0 for a long time.

*Edit: After a little peeking, I think I'll move along with the story and leave the rest of CREO World until later. I've hit the first boss, and he's a speedy staff-wielding freak that pretty easily beats my butt. I'm sure I could do it with patience, but I don't want to run into the Cat boss without first finding and wearing the Iron Maus suit. That means 5 coins and 70 Core Power.

*Double Edit: I thought I was being really OCD, farming hard for Scrap and wasting a LOT of time doing it - but the game seems to expect you to. With a Core of 55, I'm just barely able to wear the MANTIS armor and equip 8 good implants. I have -one- power left to work with. This is not a game for people who don't like grinding.

*Triple Edit: I'm struggling for clear details on how Impact works. Has anyone found something solid? Like - I think I've read that there's a "Cap" on what you can add with gear. High is it. If you have a Very High weapon, more Impact won't help it. However, if you have +20% arms, they do help. My questions are...
  • If a weapon is Low, Medium, High, or Very High - what does this translate into percentage-wise? Is Low 20%, Medium 40%, High 60%, and Very High 80%?
  • If I'm wearing arms that add 20% Impact - is that for the pair, or 20% each? Does it matter if it's a one-handed or two-handed weapon?
  • Is the value from the arms added flatly to the total for the weapon, or do they add a percentage to the weapon's total? Like 20% arm adding 20% of 60% to make it 72% Impact?
  • Is "Stagger Damage" a percentage of the enemy Stability bar - 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% - or is it a percentage of the damage my weapon does? IE - If I hit for 60 damage with a Medium Impact weapon, does it stagger for 40% of 60 - meaning 24 Stability - or 40% from the total enemy Stability bar?
In the flurry of combat it can be hard to tell. I suppose I need to run some tests and find out if I can't find an answer online. Just try out different weapons and arms and hit an enemy once with each to see how their Stability bar reacts.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:10 am

Paingod wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:08 am
*Double Edit: I thought I was being really OCD, farming hard for Scrap and wasting a LOT of time doing it - but the game seems to expect you to. With a Core of 55, I'm just barely able to wear the MANTIS armor and equip 8 good implants. I have -one- power left to work with. This is not a game for people who don't like grinding.
Reading through this thread might tell you something different but I don't feel like I did much grinding in the game... unless you call failing and recovering your scrap over and over grinding. I just call that a learning curve. I don't know that I ever really went out hunting just for scrap.... though now that I am thinking of it, I do remember some kind of exploit I might have used to get extra scrap so I didn't have to grind. :doh:
-Coop

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:11 am

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:10 am
I do remember some kind of exploit I might have used to get extra scrap so I didn't have to grind. :doh:
Yeah, earlier in the thread you talked about exploiting a bug where you could scrap an item, but equip it as you scrapped it - and in doing so the item stayed and you still got the scrap. I'm close to a point where I'd be willing to try that, but I wager they've patched the bug.

You mentioned you made something over 1,000,000 scrap this way when GreenGoo was asking how you got your Core so high. For comparison, I probably scraped together a total of 80,000 scrap in three hours of play last night.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:39 am

I reinstalled last night after the huge Conan patch that appears to have made most of my combat thralls poof. I think I may give it another run and take a bit of a break from Conan.
-Coop

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:55 am

Yeah, the wife lost some stuff after that as well. Time will tell if that's the beginning of the end for her, or if she reattaches to another server or dedicates a rebuild with her few guildies.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:25 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:10 am
Paingod wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:08 am
*Double Edit: I thought I was being really OCD, farming hard for Scrap and wasting a LOT of time doing it - but the game seems to expect you to. With a Core of 55, I'm just barely able to wear the MANTIS armor and equip 8 good implants. I have -one- power left to work with. This is not a game for people who don't like grinding.
Reading through this thread might tell you something different but I don't feel like I did much grinding in the game... unless you call failing and recovering your scrap over and over grinding. I just call that a learning curve. I don't know that I ever really went out hunting just for scrap.... though now that I am thinking of it, I do remember some kind of exploit I might have used to get extra scrap so I didn't have to grind. :doh:
I don't recall grinding specifically either. I remember dying a hundred times to something and having a small fortune at the end, but that's different. :D

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:46 pm

Paingod wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:08 am
*Double Edit: I thought I was being really OCD, farming hard for Scrap and wasting a LOT of time doing it - but the game seems to expect you to. With a Core of 55, I'm just barely able to wear the MANTIS armor and equip 8 good implants. I have -one- power left to work with. This is not a game for people who don't like grinding.
OK, I am kind of close to where you are in the game now (actually past you a bit based on this post). Those really high core power boxes you are seeing are for gathering Mk V materials. You don't need them any time soon. On the core power for armor and implants, you are not supposed to be able to equip all the best stuff you can find. You should be forced to make choices, trade-offs. Do I want more power or stronger armor or better healing or more energy or... I am at the third boss (Big Sister) and haven't done any grinding. I am around 47 core power, with 8 good implants and still wearing MK II Lynx gear. I have Mk II Scarab made, but can't equip it due to core power and I am not willing to give up my implants.
-Coop

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:01 pm

After my millionth play through I definitely had favorite armour parts and I don't think the base game had a full suit that I preferred over bits and pieces from various suits put together. Probably something like low energy usage legs (so...light armor), high stagger arms, low drone usage head (light armor again probably) and for chestpiece, I can't remember even vague details.

Very few (if any) full suits had bonuses that outweighed the negatives associated with at least some parts of the suit.

I say all this having played through the game at least once with each full set of armor (some armor is not available until late game. I switched over to it when it was that suit's turn).

As coop points out, implants are the most important items, although low energy legs are a close second for me.

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by Paingod » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:53 pm

I dawdle too much then... :D

I'm up to 60 Core Power now, still farting around in CREO World, haven't moved on to Stage 3, and am wearing full MANTIS armor (Set Bonus: Injectables cost less energy), 7 of my best implants and 1 "+10% Health for Finishing Move" implant. I am ready to move on to stage 3 now that I've abused the Animatronics, MANTIS, and OGRE's in this place excessively.

I've spent some time playing around with stagger effects to try and understand them. I collected data from a few weapons and a couple enemy types.

Generally... (percentages are of the Stability bar)
With +0/+0 Arms (LYNX MkII)
Very Low Impact - Did 25% to an Armored Head, 60% to an Armored Leg
Low Impact - Did 30% to an Armored Head, 95% to an Unarmored Body, 100% to an Unarmored Leg
Medium Impact - Did 35% to an Armored Head, 100% to an Unarmored Body
High Impact - Did 50% to an Armored Head, 60% to an Armored Arm, 80% to an Armored Leg
Very High Impact - Did 95% to an Armored Head, 100% to an Armored Leg

With +20/+20 Arms (MANTIS MkII)
Very Low Impact - Did 60% to an Unarmored body, 65% to an Armored Leg
Low Impact - Did 100% to an Unarmored Arm, 70% to an Armored Leg, 35% to an Armored Head
Medium Impact - Did 40% to an Armored Head, 40% to an Armored Body, 75% to an Armored Leg, 100% to an Unarmored Leg
High Impact - Did 65% to an Armored Head, 80% to an Armored Leg, 100% to an Unarmored Body
Very High Impact - Did 95% to an Armored Head, 100% to an Armored Leg, 100% to an Armored Body

Glitches in Stability damage are the only consistent thing about it. I'd expect that hitting something so hard it's Stability would instantly drop it would, well, drop it - but it doesn't. I can rip off 100% chunks of Stability all day and they'll fight through like 1/2 of those. However, if I Stagger with 2 or more hits, they get disrupted. Stability damage also seemed tied to the power of a strike. If a hit does less than normal (part of a combo), it also seems to stagger for less.

So for all that testing, the best thing I can say is that hitting unarmored parts and legs grant a huge bonus to stability damage, while adding the +20/+20 arms didn't have the effect I was expecting at all. I don't know if they're bugged, stability is variable, or I'm reading it wrong.
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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by coopasonic » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:58 pm

Black Cerberus was a huge pain... again. I just made it to the final area. I guess I should go back and explore CREO World before the end game.I need to go back and start gathering Nano Cores anyway. I don't want to pull a GreenGoo and fight the end boss in Mk III gear. :twisted:
-Coop

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Re: The Surge - Sci-Fi - Melee Combat RPG

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:44 pm

Heh, I don't remember that, but do you remember when I started my first new game+, I fought the first guy with just the starting gear because I didn't realize all my gear from the first playthrough was available, just not equipped?

That was insane. Much profanity was had.

But I did it! Huzzah.

I need to get back to the first Dark Souls game. I stopped when I heard they were releasing a remastered edition. I guess I was hoping for a heavy discount for people who already owned the game, but it never materialized. Not that I noticed anyway.

I can't bring myself to rebuy the remastered edition, EVEN THOUGH my copy was a gift, so I paid nothing for it to begin with. I just don't like the idea of them milking their customers because their customers really like to play video games. It's...so cynically exploitative. Also, I have a problem spending money on things I already (sorta) own. I have a problem spending money in general but this really causes my anti-waste money genes to kick in.

I would have LOVED to have had an implant that showed stagger data. Paingod, you have to realize that for coop and I, all we had was the in game feedback based on enemy animations from our attacks. It worked well, but having the raw data would have been so much better (albeit less immersive).

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