More SOE BS

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:15 pm

YellowKing wrote:From a business standpoint, I think that makes perfect sense. Why support storage and website space and expense for thousands of low-level, non-played toons, especially when the players who really *need* the extra slots are EQ powergamers who will have no qualms about purchasing multiple accounts anyway?

I think you way overestimate the storage and website space for thousands of low-level, non-played toons.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:28 pm

Regardless of how much space it actually takes, the fact remains that if you allow a large amount of character slots (let's be really conservative and just say 8 total), then you've got to have twice the space/maintenance than you would by limiting people to 4 accounts. Maybe that's not a whole lot, but I imagine when you multiply the upkeep of 8 characters per account by several hundred thousand accounts, you're not talking nickel and dime differences here.

The question is whether the amount of people you're going to piss off by limiting character slots to 4 is worth the cost of doubling your storage and web maintenance (not to mention dealing with any potential problems associated with database size). I imagine somebody at SOE at some point looked at stats, crunched the numbers, and decided that the advantages of limiting players to 4 slots outweighed the disadvantages.

Post by **FishPants** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:12 pm

AttAdude wrote:
Cofcos wrote:Oh, you could say I played EQ... I was a huge multiboxer and have-- Well, lets just say many 65s and a few 70s...

Due to my situation, as I posted elsewhere, I have tons of free time and don't at all doubt my ability to cap 4 characters(not including all the raiding type stuff) fairly quickly; without truely powergaming, either.
Well then i obviously dont know what the hell im talking about lol. I quit right after POP, and at the time that i played, it was hard just having 2 50+ characters. Then again, i have a job, and i tend to socialize ingame more than i actualy play, so that may explain the discrepency. /shrug.

In anycase, the more i read about this, other issues like it, and the game its self the more it sounds like Power gamers are just shit out of luck. We shall see soon. the 8th is close indeed.

Isn't that the whole point though? SOE has repeatedly stated EQ2 is a different game geared to the social player/casual gamer. Perhaps (just an idea to throw out there) the 4 slot limit is for that purpose alone, after all diskspace isn't really an issue these days, it's cheaper by the week.

I am looking forward to it, perhaps now when I login weekly my friends won't be 10 levels ahead of me anymore. I had a good group of friends in EQ1 and when I was behind they would come PL me and keep me company, but that only lasted so long (well ok, 3 years or so) until it was too much of a chore. I certainly appreciate where the hardcore gamers are coming from, but perhaps EQ1 will continue to give you what you are looking for (more expansions coming up or anything?).

My 2c worth.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:36 pm

YellowKing wrote:Regardless of how much space it actually takes, the fact remains that if you allow a large amount of character slots (let's be really conservative and just say 8 total), then you've got to have twice the space/maintenance than you would by limiting people to 4 accounts. Maybe that's not a whole lot, but I imagine when you multiply the upkeep of 8 characters per account by several hundred thousand accounts, you're not talking nickel and dime differences here.

The question is whether the amount of people you're going to piss off by limiting character slots to 4 is worth the cost of doubling your storage and web maintenance (not to mention dealing with any potential problems associated with database size). I imagine somebody at SOE at some point looked at stats, crunched the numbers, and decided that the advantages of limiting players to 4 slots outweighed the disadvantages.

Or, they crunched the numbers and figured out that the number of people that would buy 2 accounts outweighed the number of people that wouldn't play at all.

Let me give you a for instance. Out of the Park Developments hosts 50 leagues for the Out Of the Park game which includes per league:
- 200 MB disk space
- 1 GB monthly traffic
- 10 email accounts
- 1 mailing list
- 1 mySQL database

This is included FOR FREE (with any 6 order ids game=$29.95) INDEFINITELY.

You can't tell me that it is cost and storage that is driving SOE's decision. Well, you can, but you'd be wrong.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:26 pm

noxiousdog wrote: Let me give you a for instance. Out of the Park Developments hosts 50 leagues for the Out Of the Park game which includes per league:
- 200 MB disk space
- 1 GB monthly traffic
- 10 email accounts
- 1 mailing list
- 1 mySQL database

This is included FOR FREE (with any 6 order ids game=$29.95) INDEFINITELY.

You can't tell me that it is cost and storage that is driving SOE's decision. Well, you can, but you'd be wrong.

If I understand your example correctly, then Out of the Park already has an upper cap on the disk space, yes? 50 leagues max, with your per league information. So, with simple math:

the total space is:

200MB*50 = 10000MB
1 GB traffic*50 = 50 GB

plus lets allocate 3 GB*50 for the email + database.

Thats about 210 GB. Period. It doesn't get higher than that, according to your example (you stated support for 50 leagues).

On the other hand, SOE2 is not capped at 50 people. It's not capped at anything except 4 character slots per person. You could have 50 million people and SOE2 would have to support it. Well, "have to" is a strong phrase, but it would be deemed a poor MMORPG if it couldn't support that.

You also have to remember that every MMORPG is going for the big payout of having every person on the planet with an account. So, yes, if N is the number of people playing SOE2, then cost and storage will increasingly be a factor as N approaches 6 billion people.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:58 pm

You forgot to include the economic argument.

OOTP can do it for $150. SOE gets to do it for say $20 per game + $10/month.

And lets be real here. How much space does a webpage take up? -MAYBE- 200K if it's really nice picture?

I'm sure an EverQuest Charater is a more complex than an OOTP player, but GGOOTP alone has thousands of player sheets that are on the OOTP league website and nearly tens thousand on the history page. Feel free to browse I feel pretty comfortable thinking that an EQ2 character page isn't magnitudes greater than an OOTP character, if for no other reason page load times would make the website worthless.

So, there is no way that storage concerns have anything to do with the problem.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:34 pm

I think the idea sucks. I enjoy making alts, even if it just to run around and get to level 10 or so. Just to try out some new skills or spells or make some themed characters with friends.

This isn't a deal breaker but they do seem to be pushing me into the no-buy category. I need to research it more but if they have increased downtime to 1 minute +, the four character thing, and if the grind is even close to EQ1 than Gerber won't ride again... in EQ2 anyway.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:21 pm

Austin,

As far as downtime goes I did a little experimentation last night. At 17 my downtime from zero only approaches that minute+ mark if I'm not actively eating/drinking. A little explanation there - if you right-click your food you can select an option to "Eat when hungry" and if you right-click your water you can select an option to "Drink when thirsty." This basically keeps your food and water "up" as a buff so that you're always regenning at the fastest rate possible. Food and water are time based, so one unit of food or water lasts 30 real-time minutes. The only thing I don't like about the system as it stands is that you have to re-select that option after you die or whenever you log on. Wish they could make it a default.

If I'm eating food/water, my downtime is much less than a minute+. This is with basic water and iron rations (one step up from regular rations). With today's patch they've added more advanced food and water that should reduce downtime even more. I'm going to test it out tonight if possible.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:34 pm

Ahhh good to know. Me likey low downtime.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:36 pm

I don't really buy the diskspace thing either. Database entries in general perhaps, but not diskspace per se. Anyone who's ever dealt with large databases (30 million+ records) understands the issues. Limit those character slots and you just don't have to worry about it anymore.

I don't think that they are sitting around going "well, x # of people will buy two accounts." I still don't believe that the % of people doing that is high enough to enter into their marketing. And even if it is... are the die-hard multi-account people even going to leave EQlive?

Steron · Post by **Steron** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:29 pm

I couldn't care less either. I am the type of person that won't play more than one or two characters. For example, in EQ I had a Ranger, Shadow Knight and a Necro. In DAOC I had a Berserker and a Hunter on one sever and a Wizard and a Armsman on another. I don't see this as being an issue for me but I can see where others would be pissed.