So, Bioshock...

[DD*]

...is one of those games I've started multiple times but it just never 'clicked' for me. Thief was another one like that, and now it is one of my favorites.

I'm thinking of giving it another go but I see that I have Bioshock 1 and 2 in my Steam library, along with B1 and B2 "remastered". Should I play the original, or start the "remastered"? What the differences (but please not spoilers).

Thanks!

[Smoove_B]

You definitely want to replay the remastered versions as I'm not 100% sure the older ones actually work on newer computers. That being said there were some issues with them (I remembering having a problem with one or the other and it was later patched) so look into that as well. I'm pretty sure the biggest change was simply updating the textures and officially supporting widescreen resolutions. I believe they also added achievements and trading cards as well. I enjoyed them both though I'm not sure how they hold up in 2017. Would still be worth it to get through them and then play BioShock Infinite which I really enjoyed.

[NickAragua]

The best change over time to Bioshock was ditching "Games for Windows Live" which was awful.

But anyway, I finished both of those games but I don't think I'll ever replay them.

[gilraen]

I played the original through once, on easy difficulty That was less than a year ago but not the remastered version, and it mostly worked fine on Win 7, except for messing with settings to fix a known glitch with no sound after intro. Steam shows 15 hours gameplay...so I guess that's how long it took me to play through it (I did spend a couple of hours on normal difficulty first, and then changed my mind and started over on easy).
I did enjoy the story and the gameplay, so at some point I'll get around to playing Bioshock 2. Remastered, this time.

[GreenGoo]

I've given it the ol' college try twice, with the second time getting farther than the first, yet I never finished it.

I bought II on sale and have yet to install it. Infinite is on my wishlist yet I haven't purchased it yet, despite being on sale multiple times.

They are good games and should capture my attention, they just never really have.

[Scuzz]

I have played the original versions of Bioshock 1 & 2. I thought one was a really good game. The second was okay but just kind of more of the same. I was actually thinking of replaying the first one next. I imagine the remastered versions require a newer computer?

Bioshock does have a tough learning curve. It takes awhile to figure out the upgrades and to find a decent weapon, and ammo is almost always an issue. But after a while you will be well armed and badass.

[Rumpy]

Heh, Bioshock. I've only played the first game. I thought it was OK. I loved the art-deco stylings but hated the horror aspects. And I thought the gunplay was pretty bad. The weapons didn't feel too great. I practically had to push myself to finish the game because there were certain things about it that really annoyed me. The shrieking characters for instance...

[Jaymann]

Bioshock 2 is one of my all time favorites. The story was very engaging.

[Daehawk]

I remember the first game well. The second I cant really recall a lot. I think being on the same station made it more blah to me or something.

[Lordnine]

Bioshock 2 had definitively better combat than the first but I thought everything else about it was worse. Not to say it was bad, but if you played the first, it was mostly just a retread.

[DD*]

Finished it up over the weekend (Bioshock 1 remastered). Thought it was OK, the level design and general look and feel were very cool. That being said, it was definitely a railroad ride and the "secret" areas were few and far between. Thought it got very "MOTS-y" at the end. And the climax didn't make much sense to me:

Spoiler:

Why would Ryan just let you kill him and do nothing. Made no sense to me.

I feel no great need to either replay it or hit Bioshock 2. Maybe in a few months.

[Daehawk]

I also felt that was stupid on his part or designers. The next time I play Im also not limiting my stealing of mana or whatever they call it. It is not as fun when you cant use the coolest powers.

[Lordnine]

Finished it up over the weekend (Bioshock 1 remastered). Thought it was OK, the level design and general look and feel were very cool. That being said, it was definitely a railroad ride and the "secret" areas were few and far between. Thought it got very "MOTS-y" at the end. And the climax didn't make much sense to me:

Spoiler:

Why would Ryan just let you kill him and do nothing. Made no sense to me.

I feel no great need to either replay it or hit Bioshock 2. Maybe in a few months.

Spoiler:

Ryan didn’t “let” you kill him, he chose to die.
Ryan’s philosophy was that a man chooses, a slave obeys. Your player character was a slave for the entire game and in the end you didn’t even have the option to choose whether you killed Ryan or not. It’s why he said "know this, you are my greatest disappointment".

As to why he wanted to die, he knew that Fontaine had already won, he played his cards perfectly and Rapture, Ryan's dream, was dying. There was nothing left to do but give in and by having you (the player character) kill him was basically a big insult. Play the part of a slave and obey if you are too weak to be anything else.

[GreenGoo]

I've given it the ol' college try twice, with the second time getting farther than the first, yet I never finished it.

I bought II on sale and have yet to install it. Infinite is on my wishlist yet I haven't purchased it yet, despite being on sale multiple times.

They are good games and should capture my attention, they just never really have.

Time for a 3rd attempt. This time with the remastered version. I hear it had problems but I'll give it a try anyway, since the original is no longer installed (because I just uninstalled it in favour of the remastered version. Heh).

Bit of a gaming funk at the moment. Had too many games keeping my attention, now I've got none.

[TheMix]

Just breezed through a replay of the remastered version. I didn't have any issues. So hopefully it will be smooth going.

I really love the setting. 2 and 3 are still on my list to replay.

[GreenGoo]

Cool. Let's see how far I get this time.

edit: difficulty seems stuck on medium? Nevermind, can set when new game starts.

[TheMix]

A lot of the fun can come from which abilities you slot. And, of course, how you use them.

I'm always a fan of the basics: set them on fire, freeze them solid and then break them (except you don't get loot this way), or shock them - especially fun if you can get several standing in water.

Some of the others are a lot of fun, but I just couldn't break free of the easy ones. Maybe if it had been easier to switch them out depending on the situation.

[Sepiche]

Some of the others are a lot of fun, but I just couldn't break free of the easy ones.

The bees are awfully easy to use... especially once you've upgraded a bit. Attack a couple guys with bees, then hide as they work their magic.

[GreenGoo]

My goal this time around is to simply use what I find. As an old school gamer I've been trained to hoard everything in case I need it. Ammo, Eve, whatever. Might be a tough boss fight around the corner, better not use your plasmids on these splicers.

If I can let go of that mind set, I'll have a lot more fun than my previous attempts. So far I've been burning eve on every encounter. Things are much easier, for now.

[TheMix]

I never had much luck with the bees. Maybe it's that they are too slow compared to the other ones.

One of my favorites (that I never used) was the trap that throws them in the air.

[GreenGoo]

So when I hit esc it shows 3 little sisters rescued on this level, which is all of them. Yet I see a big daddy with a little sister. What happens if I kill that big daddy? Can I harvest/rescue his little sister, even though the esc screen shows all little sisters completed?

[TheMix]

Can't hurt to try, I guess.

Odd though. I don't think I ever saw more Little Sisters than were supposed to be there.

[Daehawk]

I am wondering about the difficulty. Is this the game with no difficulty to choose from? And if it does have settings does setting it higher give you more and better enemies or just make Big Daddies impossible?

[GreenGoo]

Can't hurt to try, I guess.

Odd though. I don't think I ever saw more Little Sisters than were supposed to be there.

It is odd. Been burning resources to kill Big Daddies already, so I wasn't planning on fighting this one unless I knew for certain that I could get adam out of it. I'll give it a try and get back to you.

[Daehawk]

You do understand taking adam like that is a bad thing and gets you the different ending right? I think even once marks you Ive played it both ways.

[GreenGoo]

Can't hurt to try, I guess.

Odd though. I don't think I ever saw more Little Sisters than were supposed to be there.

It is odd. Been burning resources to kill Big Daddies already, so I wasn't planning on fighting this one unless I knew for certain that I could get adam out of it. I'll give it a try and get back to you.

Tested. Yes I could interact with the little sister. Even got a 4 of 3 little sisters "processed" notification. So, I guess it was a mistake or something, but it worked out.

[Scuzz]

I am wondering about the difficulty. Is this the game with no difficulty to choose from? And if it does have settings does setting it higher give you more and better enemies or just make Big Daddies impossible?

It does have a difficulty setting, both the original and enhanced, with the enhanced having 4 settings to the originals 3. I always just play the normal setting.

I installed the enhanced version but dumped it for the original after some graphics problems early on.

I have played this before and have gotten to where I have to fight a Big Daddy for the first time. I am getting my ass kicked.

[GreenGoo]

I have never quick saved so much in my life.

I absolutely detest having to repeat what I've already done. This probably means I'm not enjoying the game very much, and I think that's true. The combat is off somehow. I'm not exactly sure how, but it's not much fun, at least for me.

I'm playing on normal, and resources are plentiful, so there is no problem there. I use whatever weapon I have max ammo for at any point in time. I spend money on shutting down bots and healing stations and vending machines because you can only carry $500 and I hate leaving cash behind, so I spend it to always be below $500, even when I don't have any compelling reason to buy anything.

At this point, it is my third or fourth attempt at the game, and I'm pretty sure I'm playing just to say I finished it. I'm not sure it will ever be true though. I keep hitting a wall that is either boredom or a lack of fun.

I'm in Fort Frolic and I've only made it this far one other time. I'm still not as far as I've been before, but I'm getting close.

[Rumpy]

Yeah, for me, while the environments were visually pleasing, it all started to feel samey after awhile, and I felt rather underwhelmed by the story leading you from location to location. I kept waiting for waiting for more interesting theme changes to go with the different locations, but was disappointed when it was pretty much the same throughout. Some of the level design was rather confusing too.

The combat was pretty terrible, and I remember having a bad time with it. The weapons felt underpowered, and the enemies spongy, even on the easiest difficulty. The shrieking characters drove me nuts and I feel that to this day, they're one of the most annoying game sounds.

[GreenGoo]

The combat is kind of terrible, isn't it? I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that.

Love the setting though, and the Atlas Shrugged concept plus the early 50's visuals work for me too.

Since I'm not enjoying the combat, the fact that enemies respawn is a major con as well, even though I don't mind that in other games.

[TheMix]

Reading the previous comments, I feel like I played a different game from both of you....

I don't know. I didn't have any issues with combat. Or saves. Or respawning (sure, there was some, but I never found it to be an issue).

I just had fun enjoying the setting, and setting everyone on fire... or zapping them... or freezing them...

Once I get my computer back I need to fire up the second one.

[Rumpy]

The combat is kind of terrible, isn't it? I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that.

Yeah, I don't know what it is about it, but I felt like I was having a terrible time hitting anything, and would end up spending a lot of bullets. I'd often run out due to how much difficulty I had in hitting anything, making it an unpleasant experience.

Oh, the art deco setting was great, I'll admit, and I think that was the best part. They had done a great job setting the mood, but the gameplay is where it took a turn.

Reading the previous comments, I feel like I played a different game from both of you....

It may or may not have anything to do with playing the game years later after hearing the hype. It was a different experience than what I was expecting. I was also disappointed by my reaction. I had to take a break from it for awhile because I felt rather annoyed by it, ie the shrieking really set me on edge, and came back to it months later to complete it. But I wasn't "wowed" by it in any sense.

I used to be a much more frequent player of FPSes in the past. But I play them much less frequently now, and only when something really catches my eye, and even then, it's not a guarantee that I'll enjoy them.

[Scuzz]

Reading the previous comments, I feel like I played a different game from both of you....

I don't know. I didn't have any issues with combat. Or saves. Or respawning (sure, there was some, but I never found it to be an issue).

I just had fun enjoying the setting, and setting everyone on fire... or zapping them... or freezing them...

Once I get my computer back I need to fire up the second one.

Yea, I need to agree with you on this. I enjoy using plasmids and doing damage that way, but sometimes you need a weapon. And some weapons and plasmids work better than others on certain enemies. I do wish I had a sword instead of just a wrench.

Re-Spawning is a small thing. Most enemies don't in fact re-spawn, there are just a few new ones moving around.

I also love to quick save, it is a practice I learned from Baldurs Gate. But in Bioshock you have 2 choices, you can always just show up in a vita chamber. The advantage of doing that is the enemies will stay damaged from your last encounter, but you have lost whatever materials you used in the fight where you died.

[TheMix]

I also got the impression that they wanted you to use both plasmids and weapons. In conjunction. Using either alone is generally a bad idea (with the exception of the Big Daddies). The plasmids are generally great at incapacitating an enemy, allowing you to finish them off easily with conventional weaponry.

Though the alternate ammo was often useful for accomplishing the same thing as the plasmids.

The main thing is that it's not a traditional FPS. If you charge in guns blazing, you are going to die pretty quickly. But play cautiously, use the environment to your advantage, and it's a pretty easy game.

[Rumpy]

It's also a matter of taste. You can't fault some of us for not liking it. For some, like me, it just never clicked.

[Daehawk]

Bees and electricity were my only friends in the first two games. Water was provided of course

[Scuzz]

It's also a matter of taste. You can't fault some of us for not liking it. For some, like me, it just never clicked.

No problem. It is not your normal shooter by any means. There is also more than your normal "scare" factor with the sounds and way you are attacked.

[Rumpy]

Yeah, the sounds. Some of them were rather shrill. Made me feel rather uncomfortable.

[GreenGoo]

I've been thinking on what I don't like about Bioshock's combat. It's not the weapons and it's not the plasmids, so it must be something else. There is a lot that goes into how a FPS "feels". For example, Battlegrounds just added vaulting. Prior to that, when you jumped, you became sort of stiff as a board while in the air. It looked weird and unnatural. You could jump things, but you'd often get stuck on something, and you just looked like you were frozen while in the air. You could shoot, you could switch weapons, so you weren't actually frozen, but your body just looked unnatural.

Now with vaulting, movement is a lot cleaner, getting over short walls is easier and more natural looking and it just feels "better".

So there's lots of things that I don't notice consciously that go into making an FPS feel "smooth". Have you ever backed up in a FPS and you kept getting stuck on the tiniest outcroppings of the geometry? A chair, a slight protrusion from the wall, whatever? It's a pain in the ass. It's frustrating, it kills your movement and messes up your tactics while in combat. Other games, you still hit these things, but you slide off easily and quickly. The obstacles exist, but they don't mess with you in the same way. That's the sort of thing I think of when I think about what makes a FPS feel "natural" or "smooth". It's not an adhesion to realism, it's designed for smooth movement, so you can worry about other things.

With that example, I just assume there are a million other things that go into an FPS that I'm not consciously aware of.

With that said, some things I recognize as something I don't like about Bioshock.

1) It's confined. I realize this is a combination of the setting and probably of the tech limits from 2007. That still leaves you with very little room to maneuver. Combat movement is forward and back, forward and back. Sure you can strafe a fireball, but try to strafe TWO fireballs in the same direction and you're crashing against a wall or other obstacle.

2) Combat is over fast. Even on normal, you kill stuff fast, and you get hurt fast. You have all these great tools, but just shooting something in the face is (almost) always the best approach.

3) Related to 2). Combat is not engaging. Since it's over fast, there aren't any tactics required. I've had to start forcing myself to use proximity mines, heat seekers, alternate ammo of various types. Not only are these things not needed, there is no real opportunity to switch to them. Yes, I often enter the weapon/plasmid menu, and this pauses the game while I switch (and thank god, or I'd never switch) weapons etc, but the difference between just shooting things in the face or switching weapons/ammo and shooting things in the face is minuscule. At least on normal. Big daddies are the exception, but even then it's faster and more efficient to lightning plasmid/electric shotgun them in the face repeatedly.

4) There are all these cool things. Plasmids, weapons, weapon upgrades, crafting stations, vendors, and almost none of it matters. There is very little incentive to experiment with combinations of plasmids, for example. Sure, this allows you to play the game anyway you like, but it doesn't FEEL very different or varied, even when you put away your go-to plasmids and use some of the second string ones.

I think for me, besides the clunky movement and fast, uninteresting combat, its it's the feeling that everything seems extraneous. I don't need to lightning a group of Splicers in water because shooting them in the head with my pistol is just as good, but doesn't use any EVE. Or vice versus, where I spend EVE and conserve ammo. They die just as quickly, the combat is just as engaging (or not) either way.

It feels like the game could lose the crafting, lose the vending, lose 1/2 the plasmids, all (or almost all) of the alternative ammo and still be just as interesting as it currently is. Which is not to say that the extra stuff doesn't add something, but it feels like it's not much.

All of this might just be because I quick save like a sonuvabitch and am playing on normal. But I quick save not because it's difficult, but because I just do NOT want to go down that hallway and loot the same boxes and hack the same safe again. Because it's not fun in and of itself. And I'm playing on normal because I desperately want to finish this game somehow. With 3 or 4 tries under my belt, I'm still not sure I'm going to make it.

Contrast this with the Surge, which I played through like 6-8 times because the combat was unbelievably fun all by itself. Or if we're talking fps, the most recent Doom was so much fun that I tried Ironman for many hours of play AFTER finishing it multiple times, including the hardest difficulty.

The combat in doom (a game from 2016) was fluid, dangerous and satisfying.

The combat in bioshock (a game from 2007) feels clunky, short, and something to get over with as soon as possible.

So that's a lot of writing, but I have been thinking about this for a while now.

In the end, it's just not that much fun for me. Since fun is subjective, it's totally to be expected that some people love it and some don't.

I do like the story though. While I could just go to youtube, I do want to experience it myself, so I'm plugging away at it.

[GreenGoo]

I'm in Hephaestus now, which is as far as I've ever gotten, I think. It's still only 1/2 way through the game, but I am making progress.

Note I didn't talk about all the things I like about the game, which is quite a few things actually. It's just they don't counter my dislike of the combat nearly enough.